Imam Ali (A) Praised Usman On Collection Of Quran?

[Aabiss_Shakari]

(salam)

 

(bismillah)

 

Is there any historical documentation on the issue that proves that Imam Ali (a.s) praised Usman on his attempts to collect and compile holy Quran? I was reading a Urdu book on investigation of different aspects of Tehreef e Quran in the following link.

 

http://maaref-foundation.com/urdu/quran/important_facts/index.htm  

 

Where i read that Imam Ali a.s praised attempts of Usman of compiling Quran. 

 

 

 

[Muslim2010]

I dont know about the documentation but just from history i know that Imam Ali collected and presented the Quran to first caliphs who denied to accept it. This confirms that Imam Ali had collected the quran himself and presneted it to ummah but unfortunately who denied it. 

 

This gives me point to say when Imam Ali already collected and presented the Quran then did he find any reason to praise and say that Usman had done a goood job of collecting and compiling the quran?

 

Certainly not its an  illogical assumption.

Edited June 24, 2013 by skamran110

[power]

Why would Imam Ali (as) praise Usmam, when Imam Ali (as) compiled the Quran himself. 

.

[omar111]

Ali praises Uthman in nehjul belagha

SERMON 163

I do not know what to say to you. I know nothing (in this matter)

which you do not know, nor can I lead you to any matter of which you are not aware. You

certainly know what we know, we have not come to know anything before you which we

could tell you; nor did we learn anything in secret which we should convey to you.

You have seen as we have seen and you have heard as we have heard. You sat in the company

of the Prophet of Allah as we did. (Abu Bakr) Ibn Abi Quhafah and (`Umar) ibn al-Khattab

were no more responsible for acting righteously than you, since you are nearer than both of

them to the Prophet of Allah through kinship, and you also hold relationship to him by

marriage which they do not hold.

[Muslim2010]

1- This post does not mentionn the colleaction of Quran by Usman nor does it include this matter. so this is highly IRRELEVANT POST.

 

2-This part of the sermon 163 looks to be a praise but if you go trough the actual content this is a clear warning by Imam Ali against the tyrant actions of Usman. I quote the text of Sermon 163 as given below:

 

SERMON 163

When people went to Amir al-mu'minin in a deputation and complained to him through what

they had to say against `Uthman, and requested him to speak to him on their behalf and to

admonish him for their sake, he went to see him and said: (1)

 

The people are behind me and they have made me an ambassador between you and

themselves; but by Allah, I do not know what to say to you. I know nothing (in this matter)

which you do not know, nor can I lead you to any matter of which you are not aware. You

certainly know what we know, we have not come to know anything before you which we

could tell you; nor did we learn anything in secret which we should convey to you.

 

You have seen as we have seen and you have heard as we have heard. You sat in the company

of the Prophet of Allah as we did. (Abu Bakr) Ibn Abi Quhafah and (`Umar) ibn al-Khattab

were no more responsible for acting righteously than you, since you are nearer than both of

them to the Prophet of Allah through kinship, and you also hold relationship to him by

marriage which they do not hold.

 

Then (fear) Allah, in your own self; for, by Allah, you are not being shown anything as if you

are blind or being apprised of anything as if you are ignorant.

The ways are clear while the banners of faith are fixed. You should know that among the

creatures of Allah, the most distinguished person before Allah is the just Imam who has been

guided (by Allah) and guides others.

 

So, he stands by the recognised ways of the Prophet's behaviour and destroys unrecognised

innovations. The (Prophet's) ways are clear and they have signs, while innovations are also

clear and they too have signs. Certainly, the worst man before Allah is the oppressive Imam

who has gone astray and through whom others go astray.

 

He destroys the the accepted sunnah and revives abandoned innovations. I heard the

Messenger of Allah saying: "On the Day of Judgement the oppressive Imam will be brought

without anyone to support him or anyone to advance excuses on his behalf, and then he will

be thrown into Hell where he will rotate as the hand-mill rotates, then (eventually) he will be

confined to its hollow."

 

I swear to you by Allah that you should not be that Imam of the people who will be killed

because it has been said that, "An Imam of this people will be killed after which killing and

fighting will be made open for them till the Day of Judgement, and he will confuse their

matters and spread troubles over them.

 

As a result, they will not discern truth from wrong. They will oscillate like waves and would

be utterly misled.

 

" You should not behave as the carrying beast for Marwan so that he may drag you wherever

he likes, despite (your) seniority of age and length of life.

Then `Uthman said to Amir al-mu'minin: "Speak to the people to give me time until I redress

their grievances." Amir al-mu'minin then said: "So far as Medina is concerned here is no

question of time. As for remoter areas you can have the time needed for your order to reach

there."

 

in this sermon Imam Ali has warned Usman that if continue his ways he may be killed, but what a wisdom is there in conveying the message.

 

The commnetary on the sermon further elaborates the truth:

 

(1). During the Caliphate of `Uthman when the Muslims were weary of the oppression of the

Government and its officials collected in Medina to complain to the senior companions of the

Prophet, they came to Amir al-mu'minin in a peaceful manner and requested him to see

`Uthman and advise him not to trample on the Muslims' rights and to put an end to the

troubles which were proving the cause of the people's ruin, whereupon Amir al-mu'minin went

to him and uttered these words.

 

In order to make the bitterness of the admonition palatable Amir al-mu'minin adopted that way

of speech in the beginning which would create a sense of responsibility in the addressee and

direct him towards his obligations.

 

Thus, by mentioning his companionship of the Prophet, his personal position, and his kinship to

the Prophet as against the two previous Caliphs, his intention was to make him realise his

duties; in any case, this was obviously not an occasion for eulogising him, so that its later

portion can be disregarded and the whole speech be regarded as an eulogy of his attainments,

because from its very beginning it is evident that whatever `Uthman did, he did it wilfully, that

nothing was done without his knowledge or his being informed, and that he could not be held

unaccountable for it because of his being unaware of it.

 

If the adoption of a line of action which made the whole Islamic world raise hue and cry in

spite of his having being a companion of the Prophet, having heard his instructions, having

seen his behaviour and having been acquainted with the commandments of Islam can be

regarded as a distinction, then this taunt may also be regarded as praise.

 

If that is not a distinction then this too cannot be called and eulogy. In fact, the words about

which it is argued that they are in praise are enough to prove the seriousness of his crime,

because a crime in ignorance and unawareness is not so serious as the weight given to the

seriousness of the commission of a crime despite knowledge and awareness.

 

 

 

(

Edited June 25, 2013 by skamran110

[Aabiss_Shakari]

Here is one more reference from the same book.

 

[Muslim2010]

Here is one more reference from the same book.

 

 

What is the Reliability and Authenticity of this book?

[Abul Hussain Hassani]

(salam)

 

(bismillah)

 

Is there any historical documentation on the issue that proves that Imam Ali (a.s) praised Usman on his attempts to collect and compile holy Quran? I was reading a Urdu book on investigation of different aspects of Tehreef e Quran in the following link.

 

http://maaref-foundation.com/urdu/quran/important_facts/index.htm  

 

Where i read that Imam Ali a.s praised attempts of Usman of compiling Quran. 

 

 

 

 

Don't you think we should praise such person?

Edited June 26, 2013 by Abul Hussain Hassani

[Aabiss_Shakari]

As i read further the book. The things become more and more clear. The book proves that the Quran was compiled and completely recorded during the time of Prophet (pbuh) and Prophet (pbuh) especially arranged for this, therefore, no question of compiling Quran comes. However, Usman gathered the people on one Qir'at because Quran was revealed in seven Qir'aat. May be this work of unification or uniformation of Qira't has been praised by Imam Ali a.s

[Muslim2010]

As i read further the book. The things become more and more clear. The book proves that the Quran was compiled and completely recorded during the time of Prophet (pbuh) and Prophet (pbuh) especially arranged for this, therefore, no question of compiling Quran comes. However, Usman gathered the people on one Qir'at because Quran was revealed in seven Qir'aat. May be this work of unification or uniformation of Qira't has been praised by Imam Ali a.s

 

The Quran was completely compiled by the few companions during the life of prophet saww as per his instruction. Also, Imam Ali compiled the quran and presented to ummah but that was denied by the first caliph. The question arises here the duty of the messenger was to convey the message that he conveyed to ummah in his life and the religion was perfected, then during the period of Abubakr, Umar and Usman (rather till usman) why the ummah was kept devoid of that compiled book of quran, instead of made it available publically to ummah? This is considered more serious offense than any other thing they (3 caliphs) did.

 

Brother, I still do not consider there is any factor for praising them becasue of reason quoted above.

Edited June 28, 2013 by skamran110

[heliwave]

The question arises here the duty of the messenger was to convey the message that he conveyed to ummah in his life and the religion was perfected, then during the period of Abubakr, Umar and Usman (rather till usman) why the ummah was kept devoid of that compiled book of quran, instead of made it available publically to ummah? This is considered more serious offense than any other thing they (3 caliphs) did.

 

Because Allah swt guides and misguides each person based on how worthy they are of His Guidance or His Misguidance and most of the Ummah chose material world over al-akhira.

 

فَأَمَّا مَنْ أَعْطَىٰ وَٱتَّقَىٰ

وَصَدَّقَ بِٱلْحُسْنَىٰ

فَسَنُيَسِّرُهُۥ لِلْيُسْرَىٰ

وَأَمَّا مَنۢ بَخِلَ وَٱسْتَغْنَىٰ

وَكَذَّبَ بِٱلْحُسْنَىٰ

فَسَنُيَسِّرُهُۥ لِلْعُسْرَىٰ

 

092:005 As for him who gives and is Godwary

092:006 and confirms the best promise,

092:007 We will surely ease him toward facility.

092:008 But as for him, who is stingy and self-complacent,

092:009 and denies the best promise,

092:010 We will surely ease him toward hardship.

 

Allah swt says if He wishes He would guide all humanity to The Truth,

 

وَلَوْ أَنَّ قُرْءَانًۭا سُيِّرَتْ بِهِ ٱلْجِبَالُ أَوْ قُطِّعَتْ بِهِ ٱلْأَرْضُ أَوْ كُلِّمَ بِهِ ٱلْمَوْتَىٰ ۗ بَل لِّلَّهِ ٱلْأَمْرُ جَمِيعًا ۗ أَفَلَمْ يَا۟يْـَٔسِ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓا۟ أَن لَّوْ يَشَآءُ ٱللَّهُ لَهَدَى ٱلنَّاسَ جَمِيعًۭا ۗ وَلَا يَزَالُ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا۟ تُصِيبُهُم بِمَا صَنَعُوا۟ قَارِعَةٌ أَوْ تَحُلُّ قَرِيبًۭا مِّن دَارِهِمْ حَتَّىٰ يَأْتِىَ وَعْدُ ٱللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَا يُخْلِفُ ٱلْمِيعَادَ

013:031 If only it were a Quran whereby the mountains could be moved, or the earth could be toured, or the dead could be spoken to.... Indeed, all dispensation belongs to Allah. Have not the faithful yet realised that had Allah wished He would have guided mankind all together? The faithless will continue to be visited by catastrophes because of their doings—or they will land near their habitations—until Allah’s promise comes to pass. Indeed Allah does not break His promise.

 

 

but He Wisely setup this life as test for us and gave us a Quran with seemingly multi-interpretations but only ONE is correct taken all verses combined.

 

هُوَ ٱلَّذِىٓ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ ٱلْكِتَٰبَ مِنْهُ ءَايَٰتٌۭ مُّحْكَمَٰتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ ٱلْكِتَٰبِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَٰبِهَٰتٌۭ ۖ فَأَمَّا ٱلَّذِينَ فِى قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌۭ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَٰبَهَ مِنْهُ ٱبْتِغَآءَ ٱلْفِتْنَةِ وَٱبْتِغَآءَ تَأْوِيلِهِۦ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُۥٓ إِلَّا ٱللَّهُ ۗ وَٱلرَّٰسِخُونَ فِى ٱلْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ ءَامَنَّا بِهِۦ كُلٌّۭ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا ۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّآ أُو۟لُوا۟ ٱلْأَلْبَٰبِ

003:007 It is He who has sent down to you the Book. Parts of it are definitive verses, which are the mother of the Book, while others are metaphorical. As for those in whose hearts is deviance, they pursue what is metaphorical in it, courting temptation, and seeking its interpretation. But no one knows its interpretation except Allah and those firmly grounded in knowledge; they say, ‘We believe in it; all of it is from our Lord.’ And none takes admonition except those who possess intellect.

 

God >

[Abu_Rumaysah]

Ali praises Uthman in nehjul belagha

SERMON 163

I do not know what to say to you. I know nothing (in this matter)

which you do not know, nor can I lead you to any matter of which you are not aware. You

certainly know what we know, we have not come to know anything before you which we

could tell you; nor did we learn anything in secret which we should convey to you.

You have seen as we have seen and you have heard as we have heard. You sat in the company

of the Prophet of Allah as we did. (Abu Bakr) Ibn Abi Quhafah and (`Umar) ibn al-Khattab

were no more responsible for acting righteously than you, since you are nearer than both of

them to the Prophet of Allah through kinship, and you also hold relationship to him by

marriage which they do not hold.

 

 

This words from Ali (r.a) in one of the most sound shia books are enough proof to bring all Imamah theory down to the knees. Funniest thing how shia translators included red marked part to save their beliefs in super knowledge of Ali (r.a). If you will remove this remark, included by translator to corrupt the meaning, it is quiet obvious that Ali (r.a) testified that he knows nothing what Uthman not knows.  

[Muslim2010]

This words from Ali (r.a) in one of the most sound shia books are enough proof to bring all Imamah theory down to the knees. Funniest thing how shia translators included red marked part to save their beliefs in super knowledge of Ali (r.a). If you will remove this remark, included by translator to corrupt the meaning, it is quiet obvious that Ali (r.a) testified that he knows nothing what Uthman not knows.  

 

This is again another misconception. just quoting a part of the sermon without knowing its full content does not provide any reason to praise usman. look at the words coming after in the same sermon:

 

Certainly, the worst man before Allah is the oppressive Imam who has gone astray and through whom others go astray.

 

He destroys the the accepted sunnah and revives abandoned innovations. I heard the Messenger of Allah saying: "On the Day of Judgement the oppressive Imam will be brought without anyone to support him or anyone to advance excuses on his behalf, and then he will be thrown into Hell where he will rotate as the hand-mill rotates, then (eventually) he will be

confined to its hollow."

 

I swear to you by Allah that you should not be that Imam of the people who will be killed because it has been said that, "An Imam of this people will be killed after which killing and fighting will be made open for them till the Day of Judgement, and he will confuse their matters and spread troubles over them.

 

As a result, they will not discern truth from wrong. They will oscillate like waves and would be utterly misled.

 

" You should not behave as the carrying beast for Marwan so that he may drag you wherever he likes, despite (your) seniority of age and length of life.

 

Further can be seen in the post no. 5.

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235014891-imam-ali-a-praised-usman-on-collection-of-quran/?p=2601289

 

Regards

[Abu_Rumaysah]

Pretending blind and playing deaf? Nice try. I didn't say anything about how this speech of Ali proves merits of Usman.

 

I said and it was clead: Ali didn't possess any specific knowledge which was not known to Usman! 

 

And this is clear from his words: I know nothing which you do not know

[S.M.H.A.]

Arguments assumes that the Prophet Muhammad[pbuhahp] left the Ummah to carry out the job of compiling the Divine book?

Edited January 29, 2015 by S.M.H.A.

[Noor al Batul]

Pretending blind and playing deaf? Nice try. I didn't say anything about how this speech of Ali proves merits of Usman.

I said and it was clead: Ali didn't possess any specific knowledge which was not known to Usman!

And this is clear from his words: I know nothing which you do not know

Salam :)

Huh, I haven't even thought along these lines - because if you put the sermon into context, it's pretty clear what Imam Ali (as) means. The people came to him (as) to complain about Uthman and he tells Uthman that he doesn't know what to say to him because Uthman knows what he's doing and whether it's wrong or not because he's been in the prophet's company, has seen the revelations and so on, just like the Imam (as) has. Concerning these matters, Uthman knows what the Imam (as) knows, so the Imam (as) can't admonish him by telling him something new - rather he reminds him that as a companion of the prophet (saaw) Uthman is aware about these things (revelations of the Quran, the prophet's (saaw) behaviour and justice etc...)

Of course, knowing something and acting according to it are two completely different things, aren't they? For, if Uthman would act upon what he knows the Imam (as) wouldn't have to remind him. Now, what's worse, acting out of ignorance or with full knowledge and yet...?

Besides, there's also a difference between knowing something and understanding it- I can know the whole Quran by heart, doesn't meant that I understand each and every verse. I can know laws, doesn't mean I understand them. And as far as that goes, Imam Ali (as) possessed such a deep understanding of the Quran (for example, another example would be understanding the prophet saaw) that none other (apart from the prophet saaw, obviously) did (same as all our Aimmah) - we don't call him the speaking Quran for nothing, after all.

So, that doesn't harm our beliefs in the slightest, rest assured (and about the brackets: well, considering the context, which you always should, they simply emphasized the meaning, I guess. Though, they are probably not needed to grasp the meaning) ;)

But that's not the topic of the thread? Just wondering why that was even discussed :P And anyway, I agree with the post above mine. Why would the prophet leave such an important job as compiling the Quran in the hands of others?

Wa salam.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Noor al-Batul

[Finder]

Pretending blind and playing deaf? Nice try. I didn't say anything about how this speech of Ali proves merits of Usman.

I said and it was clead: Ali didn't possess any specific knowledge which was not known to Usman!

And this is clear from his words: I know nothing which you do not know

Salams. Reread it again brother. It is only fair to read everything. This act is equivalent to cutting even that sentence to "I know nothing..." and then proving a notion. Arguing and debating are two different actions.