Is Fatima Zehra The Lady Of Fatima Of Portugal?

[naheed]

The miracle was evidenced by more than 70,000 people in Portugal but the lady spoke to only 3 shepard children and gave them some prophesies, which are there in this video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyC73Zn9fPw

 

After doing some research I found the lady addressed herseff as Fatima Zehra (as), and it was none other than the name of Fatima Zehra (as) the daughter of Prophet (pbuh). No one else in any scriptures bears this name.

 

here is what a christian has to say.

 

 

Full Question What is the meaning of the name “Fatima”? I read that Mohammed, founder of Islam, named his daughter Fatima.

Answer

The name Fatima means "the shining one" and is indeed the name of Mohammed’s favorite daughter, Fatima Zahra. In some Muslim circles, Fatima Zahra is in some ways considered a Muslim counterpart to Mary, Mother of Jesus, as the ideal model for all women. She is revered for her purity and for her motherhood of a Muslim martyr.

How appropriate then that the Blessed Virgin Mary chose to appear in 1917 in Fatima, a town in Portugal dubbed such for a namesake of Fatima Zahra who converted from Islam to Christianity, and that the miracle given to confirm Mary’s appearances there was a miracle involving the sun. In his book on the Blessed Virgin entitled The World’s First Love, Fulton Sheen speculated that just as Judith, Esther, and other heroic women of the Old Testament were pre-Christian types of Mary, Fatima Zahra may well have been a post-Christian type of Mary.

 

 

 

 

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/what-is-the-meaning-of-the-name-fatima

 

Did Fatima (as) appear in Portugal and is known as lady of Fatima to Christians?

Edited June 23, 2013 by naheed

[Haydar Husayn]

Of course not. Read the full description of what happened. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3'>

[Django]

Yeah sounds like complete nonsense. 

More miracles in the Church: http://berto-meister.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/st-thomas-aquinas-and-miracle-of.html

Edited June 23, 2013 by Django

[naheed]

Of course not. Read the full description of what happened.

 

Then who is it?  The name was divine, the lady was divine, the message was divine (to turn towards God and forbid evil). Even sister Lucia who 1 of the 3 who witnessed her changed her lifestyled and dressed modestly even covering her hair. So who can that divine lady be?

Yeah sounds like complete nonsense. 

More miracles in the Church: http://berto-meister.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/st-thomas-aquinas-and-miracle-of.html

The miracle was not evidenced by 1 person but 70,000 all of the village in portugal. But the message was to turn to God and forbid evil, so is it not a miracle.

[Haydar Husayn]

It was either a hallucination, a fabrication, or actually was the Virgin Mary. Why would Allah allow Sayyida Fatima to appear to 3 Catholic children, who go on to promote Catholic beliefs? Did you even read what she alledgedly told the children? There is absolutely nothing Islamic about it at all.

You are reading way too much into the fact that the supposed apparition came in a town called Fatima.

[Django]

Then who is it?  The name was divine, the lady was divine, the message was divine (to turn towards God and forbid evil). Even sister Lucia who 1 of the 3 who witnessed her changed her lifestyled and dressed modestly even covering her hair. So who can that divine lady be?

The miracle was not evidenced by 1 person but 70,000 all of the village in portugal. But the message was to turn to God and forbid evil, so is it not a miracle.

Yeah Im just reading about it now. The idea that Sayed Fatima Zahra (as) would reappear like this is dodgy let alone the rationale that it was Maryam (as) reincarnate. Also why would Fatima/Maryam (as) promote conversion from Islam to Christianity? I dont see how your buying into this. What are your other sources? 

Edited June 23, 2013 by Django

[naheed]

It was either a hallucination, a fabrication, or actually was the Virgin Mary. Why would Allah allow Sayyida Fatima to appear to 3 Catholic children, who go on to promote Catholic beliefs? Did you even read what she alledgedly told the children? There is absolutely nothing Islamic about it at all.

You are reading way too much into the fact that the supposed apparition came in a town called Fatima.

 

Please tell me about the name of Fatima, from where it is derived.  I even saw a video in Iran in Farsi where the lady addresses herself as given in the link above of how the catholic says.

 

In between, I am not trying to raise the status of Fatima (as), she is already the leader of all women of paradise as agreed by both sunni and Shia sources. I am just telling how the name Fatima came into picture all of a sudden in 1917 and most important is the message. that was divine to turn to God.

 

Does that not make it a miracle.

Yeah Im just reading about it now. Why would Sayed Fatima Zahra (as) promote conversion from Islam to Christianity? I dont see how your buying into this. What are your other sources? 

 

What Christianity, the message is of Islam too that is to turn to God and forbid the evil. There are many sources you can search it for yourself, besides being witnessed by 70,000 people is not a joke or lie.

Besides HaidarHussain has been called Wahabi by many here in the forum because of his Salafist belief, can i have views of others.

Yeah Im just reading about it now. The idea that Sayed Fatima Zahra (as) would reappear like this is dodgy let alone the rationale that it was Maryam (as) reincarnate. Also why would Fatima/Maryam (as) promote conversion from Islam to Christianity? I dont see how your buying into this. What are your other sources? 

 

Firstly, the lady did not say that she was Mary. She addressed herself as Fatima, and secondly she did not say Jesus is the son of God, so what is your point?

[Vigilare]

Besides HaidarHussain has been called Wahabi by many here in the forum because of his Salafist belief, can i have views of others.

 

 

There's nothing 'salafist' about his beliefs in so far as he is at least someone who wants to follow Islam as taught by the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as).  Only people who want to follow a lesser authentic but more modern form call him a salafi, wahabi and what not.

 

As for the topic, the only thing that relates this incident to Fatima (as) is the name.  I'm sure there are plenty of Muslims, shias or otherwise, who perhaps may have benefited more from seeing her then three catholic children.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Vigilare

[naheed]

There's nothing 'salafist' about his beliefs in so far as he is at least someone who wants to follow Islam as taught by the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as).  Only people who want to follow a lesser authentic but more modern form call him a salafi, wahabi and what not.

 

As for the topic, the only thing that relates this incident to Fatima (as) is the name.  I'm sure there are plenty of Muslims, shias or otherwise, who perhaps may have benifited more from seeing her than three catholic children.

 

Yeah that's why many call HaidarHussain belief as Wahabi, but leaving that aside and coming to topic.

 

Why no one is addressing that how come the lady in vision addressed herself as Fatima (as) all of a sudden in 1917, and what is the source of the name of Fatima (as).

 

Can anyone address this and not be off topic please.

[Vigilare]

 

Why no one is addressing that how come the lady in vision addressed herself as Fatima (as) all of a sudden in 1917, and what is the source of the name of Fatima (as).

 

Can anyone address this and not be off topic please.

You're looking too much into this. 

 

1. She didn't call herself Fatima, but others have titled her "Our Lady of Fatima", "Our Lady of the Rosary of Fatima" etc.  Simply because she appeared in a place called Fatima.

2. The place was indeed called Fatima and the links below give some background.

 

http://www.portugal.com/fatima/

http://www.holymary.info/howfatimacametobe.html

Edited June 23, 2013 by Vigilare

[naheed]

You're looking too much into this. 

 

1. She didn't call herself Fatima, but others have titled her "Our Lady of Fatima", "Our Lady of the Rosary of Fatima" etc.  Simply because she appeared in a place called Fatima.

2. The place was indeed called Fatima and the links below give some background.

 

http://www.portugal.com/fatima/

http://www.holymary.info/howfatimacametobe.html

 

You obviously did not see the video, check at what 1.17 is with the significance of lady of Fatima, and Inshallah I will try getting a video in which the lady says she is Fatima, which I saw in Farsi.

[kim.tinkerbell]

It may of been another lady called fadma, but it may also might be fadmat al zahra (as), you can teach/help people from every relgion.

@ vigilare, how do you know that the muslims would of benefited more by seeing her. Look at history muslims did more harm to her then non muslims.

Everything is possible, but their are some question marks...

Um al banini is also called fadma, I dont know if thats relevent to the question.

[Haydar Husayn]

This thread just goes to show how desperate some Muslims are to see their beliefs everywhere, especially Shias.

[Jamal Al Hasan]

It is more than a coincidence that the lady that appeared was of Fatima.

[Ahmed Ismael]

The miracle was evidenced by more than 70,000 people in Portugal but the lady spoke to only 3 shepard children and gave them some prophesies, which are there in this video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyC73Zn9fPw

 

After doing some research I found the lady addressed herseff as Fatima Zehra (as), and it was none other than the name of Fatima Zehra (as) the daughter of Prophet (pbuh). No one else in any scriptures bears this name.

 

here is what a christian has to say.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/what-is-the-meaning-of-the-name-fatima

 

Did Fatima (as) appear in Portugal and is known as lady of Fatima to Christians?

. .

 

Who knows what thoughts lurk in people's minds or why the think whatever they think. Maybe these children were of families which had some generations before been Andaluz/Iberian Peninsula Muslims.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

there was a user here who had some interesting theories.

 

to summarise, his research showed that the knights templar were actually most likely 12er shia in major taqiyya, in fact according to the official bloodline of their founder, he was actually a hassani sayed. when i have time i will dig out his work. its quite interesting.

 

this is important because they were responsible for the creation and naming of the place called fatima, and if i remember correctly nearby to the village is a big templar church or site or something important to them.

 

i doubt that bibi paak (sa) appeared to a few catholic kids and told them how to improve catholicism, but it is interesting to note the history of the place and its links to shiaism.

 

If she *did* appear (i dont believe she did), then whatever she said was twisted.

[Ahmed Ismael]

there was a user here who had some interesting theories.

 

to summarise, his research showed that the knights templar were actually most likely 12er shia in major taqiyya, in fact according to the official bloodline of their founder, he was actually a hassani sayed. when i have time i will dig out his work. its quite interesting.

 

this is important because they were responsible for the creation and naming of the place called fatima, and if i remember correctly nearby to the village is a big templar church or site or something important to them.

 

i doubt that bibi paak (sa) appeared to a few catholic kids and told them how to improve catholicism, but it is interesting to note the history of the place and its links to shiaism.

 

If she *did* appear (i dont believe she did), then whatever she said was twisted.

wow

 

thats a fascinating point of history trivia

[peace seeker]

here is the thread that discusses this theory:

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234954770-who-are-the-knights-templar/

Edited June 25, 2013 by peace seeker

[Maula Dha Mallang]

here is the thread that discusses this theory:

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234954770-who-are-the-knights-templar/

 

Yes brother, that members research is spread out over several threads so if you have the time please could you find the others too? it really is quite well researched and referenced. he was certainly thorough.

[RayJaw]

Yeah Im just reading about it now. The idea that Sayed Fatima Zahra (as) would reappear like this is dodgy let alone the rationale that it was Maryam (as) reincarnate. Also why would Fatima/Maryam (as) promote conversion from Islam to Christianity? I dont see how your buying into this. What are your other sources? 

 

So, I feel the need to add something.

 

Look up 'The third secret of Fatima'. There's plenty about it online and on youtube.

 

For many years now, the Vatican has kept elements of this miracle hidden in their vaults which they cannot and will not reveal as it will shatter the whole church and it's belief system.

 

Now I'm not saying that the lady who appeared was Lady Fatema Zahra (AS), but considering how pious the witnesses become, the fact that the lady called herself Fatema, and the Vatican appear petrified of the truth to the extent that they have hidden away the evidence, theres a lot of good reasons why many would ask the question.

[BlackVeil]

So, I feel the need to add something.

 

Look up 'The third secret of Fatima'. There's plenty about it online and on youtube.

 

For many years now, the Vatican has kept elements of this miracle hidden in their vaults which they cannot and will not reveal as it will shatter the whole church and it's belief system.

 

Now I'm not saying that the lady who appeared was Lady Fatema Zahra (as), but considering how pious the witnesses become, the fact that the lady called herself Fatema, and the Vatican appear petrified of the truth to the extent that they have hidden away the evidence, theres a lot of good reasons why many would ask the question.

There are many interesting questions about these visions.

 

For one thing, accounts of what she said to the children were elaborated and changed over time. One cannot take anything from those texts for granted. Much of it was newly produced in the 1930s, whereas the visions took place in 1917. Two of the children died immediately afterwards, and so never were available for later testimonies.

 

Our Lady of Fatima gave a message to the children, which was recited and written down, but has been kept secret for some reason. The Vatican recently released a document, but many have doubts that it is a complete and accurate transcript of the message.

 

I have read that Lucia originally described the Lady as having large dark eyes, and wearing a necklace. This is not the style of Virgin Mary pictures in that region.

[peace seeker]

Yes brother, that members research is spread out over several threads so if you have the time please could you find the others too? it really is quite well researched and referenced. he was certainly thorough.

 

ok brother will look into it, and i remember studying this thread thoroughly and his main ideas. of course they could be right, but i started to doubt the holiness of the dome of the rock mosque, which he said is the basis of the church in fatima portugal, because of who built it. an ummayid.

 

one article that kind of turned me off the whole theory was this one:

 

http://www.templemountfaithful.org/Newsletters/2001/5761-11.htm

 

but there are many other points that i remember such as the idea of baphomet being mohamed, the one their enemies said they worshipped. and some other insteresting stuff, like numerology of the dome of the rock etc. also that they didn't destroy it when they occupied it or change it into a church, anyway, it was a while ago and will check if there is more on this in sha Allah

 

(wasalam)

[BlackVeil]

but there are many other points that i remember such as the idea of baphomet being mohamed, the one their enemies said they worshipped. and some other insteresting stuff, like numerology of the dome of the rock etc. ...

(wasalam)

Like the stories about the shrine at Fatima, these are all of interest. It is speculative, and I don't think one can ever be certain. But it is intriguing to learn about, and there are many hidden histories.

[peace seeker]

yes i would like to learn everything about it and i would like to believe it. i am sure that after the zuhur the portoguese will be very proud of it in sha Allah. 

[naheed]

As I said earlier that I have no intention to elevate the position of Fatima Zehra (as), as her position is most high which can be documented in both Sunni and Shia sources as she is the leader of all women in paradise and many other hadiths which glorify her loftiness of being the all time greatest of Women.

 

Why the vision could be Fatima Zehra (as) is for the following reasons.

1. The vision said she is Fatima.

2. She appeared with Rosary (Tasbih), and Tasbih of Fatima (as) is of great significance in Shia Islam.

3. There is documentation that state that she was age 16 or 17, again is the age when she died.

4. The message of turning to Allah or get the wrath or suffer punishment and to pursue education.

5. And last but not least, the vatican keeping it secret for many years, and still they not disclosed the third secret.

 

These all proofs can be documented if you search the youtube or net and some of which have been posted above.

[malik Nazar]

She proved to be Fatima Zahra , the  daughter of prophet Mohammad due to following facts,

1-three kids did not tell   that lady told her name.She said :Lady from paradise".In christianity,there is not written any where as Mary was a lady from paradise.But years ago Fatima was called "Lady from paradise"" by prophet Mohammad.

2-three kids were uneducated,without religious knowledge.They know the name of Jesus and Mary ,being a christian,so speculated it to be Mary.

3-Third secret might be the name of the lady which has never been disclosed truly as of today.

4-Lady appeared in town of Fatima. Resembling with name of Fatima.Mary was never holding a rosary.But Fatima  Zahra was always holding rosary,as a Muslim worship with names of God.

5- Lady told for worship,good acts,sacrifice ,worship which is Islamic teaching.Since Russia was abolishing Islam that time so lady mentioned that Russia must avoid its plan.

[StarWalker-313]

The area was called cote de iri at the time of the apparition and was not called Fatima. It was only called Fatima after the apparition. A story was fabricated about how in the 1300’s or something a moorish princess (named Fatima) converted to Christianity (somewhere in Portugal) and then the areas name was changed to Fatima but why was the areas name changed at the time of the apparition? They realised 600 years later to change the name and coincidentally at the time of the apparition? I did research on this story years ago and the primary sources confirm the area was called cote de iri at the time of the apparition….

[Ashvazdanghe]

 

Quote

Truth behind “Lady of Fatima”

Part 1

 

In 1917 C.E. in the town of Fatima in Portugal, three shepherd children, ten years old Lúcia Santos (born: March 22^nd, 1907) and her cousins, siblings seven and almost nine years old Jacinta (born: March 11, 1910) and Francisco (born: June 11, 1908) Marto, claimed that they had a series of visions of a lady who introduced herself as the Lady of the Prayer Beads; the Christians, since the 13^th century C.E., have been calling such beads, the Rosary. Lúcia described seeing a woman "brighter than the sun, shedding rays of light clearer and stronger than a crystal ball filled with the most sparkling water and pierced by the burning rays of the sun." (From the Wikipedia Encyclopedia)

First let us explore the facts regarding the city of Fatima in Portugal.

According to the Wikipedia: “The town of Fatima in Portugal was named after a Moorish princess.”

The Webster dictionary states that Moors were Muslims of the mixed Berber and

 

Quote

“The Idrisids (Arabic : الأدارسة) were a Zaydi -Shia Arab dynasty of Morocco, ruling from 788 to 985 AD … The founder of the dynasty was Idris ibn Abdallah (788–791), who traced his ancestry back to Ali ibn Abi Talib and his wife Fatimah, daughter of the Prophet Muhammad. As a sharif Shiite he was persecuted by the Abbasids and fled to the Maghreb in 786, where he was taken in by the Berbers. … The new kingdom of Idris I represented the second autonomous Islamic state in Morocco, and the first in Iberia.” (The Wikipedia Encyclopedia)

The Encyclopedia Britannica in regard to the Fatimite or Fatimid or the al-Fātimiyyūn Dynasty states: “Political and religious dynasty that dominated an empire in North Africa … from ad 909 to 1171 … It took its name from Fāṭimah, the daughter of the Prophet Muḥammad, from whom the Fāṭimids claimed descent.”

Thus from the proven Islamic influence in the region, specially Shi’ah who love and honor Hadrat Fatima ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) so very much, it is quite logical to conclude that the name of Hadrat Fatima ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) was well known to the people of Portugal. But in regard to the Moorish princess story, there are couple of very important points to consider, firstly: there is absolutely no historical proof for the story, rather the story is only based upon a “legend”.

 

Quote

Here is what the StateMaster Encyclopedia confirms in regard to the “legend” of the Moorish princess: “Legend says that the name of the city derives from a Moorish princess from Alcácer do Sal named Fatima who, following her capture by Christian forces during the Moorish occupation of Portugal, was betrothed to the leader of those forces, Gonçalo Hermigues, converted to Catholicism, and was baptised before her marriage in 1158. Her baptismal name was Oureana. Legend also says that the name of the town Ourém derives from Oureana.”

Notice that “Legend also says that the name of the town Ourém derives from Oureana”; this means that according to this “legend” the city of Ourém in Portugal was named after the so-called Moorish princess, and not the town of Fatima!

 

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“There are differing views on the history of the rosary. According to tradition, the rosary was given to Saint Dominic in an apparition by the Blessed Virgin Mary in the year 1214 in the church of Prouille [in France]. This Marian apparition received the title of Our Lady of the Rosary.” (Wikipedia Encyclopedia cited from St. Dominic and the Rosary by Catherine Beebe) It is also worth noting that building statues titled “the lady of the rosary” started since the so called church of Prouille apparition, and not before then.

 

Quote

The word Tasbih itself in Arabic means, praising, glorifying and worshipping Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and considering Him Pure from any thing like unto Him. The Tasbih of Fatima ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) is a special set of prayers to Praise the One and Only Almighty, for which the Lady Fatima ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) made prayer beads to count. This Tasbih has been named after her because her father, the Prophet Mohammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)&HP), by the command of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), over 1400 years ago taught her the specific statements of the Tasbih of Allah; and it has been narrated by all Muslims, Shi’ah and Sunni, ever since. The Prophet Mohammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)&HP) told her ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) that the Divine Formula of the Tasbih is worth more than almost everything in the world, he told her to recite at the end of every prayer the Great Exaltation, Allah-o-Akbar 34 times, the Statement of Absolute Gratitude, Al-Hamd-o-lellah 33 times and the Invocation of Divine Glory, SobhaanAllah 33 times, totaling 100. This collective prayer is called the Tasbih of Fatima. It is also noteworthy to mention that the word Tasbih has been used for prayer beads ever since.

http://www.kindfather.com/html/index.php?module=pages&func=display&pageid=696

[Ashvazdanghe]

There were also many Shiite dynasties that flourished in the Maghrib and al-Andalus, including the Idrisids and the Hammudids, who were Zaydis, as well as the Fatimids, the Zirids, and the Hammadids, who were Isma‘ili Shiites. And let us not forget the Bajaliyyah dynasty in Taroundant which was composed of followers of Imam Musa al-Kazim.

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There also exists a possibility that the mother of Imam Muhammad al-Mahdi, known variably as Narjis Khatun, Maryam bint Zayd al-‘Alawiyyah, Malikah, Rayhanah, Saqil and Sawsan, was also of Berber origin.

 

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Fleeing the oppression of the Umayyads and the ‘Abbasids, the descendants of the Prophet settled in the Maghrib and al-Andalus. They included the Banu Idris, the direct descendants of Idris b. ‘Abd Allah, Ibrahim b. ‘Abd Allah, Sulayman b. ‘Abd Allah, along with Muhammad b. Ja‘far, Dawud b. al-Qasim, and Ahmad b. Muhammad.

Other descendants of the Prophet belonged to the Banu Muhammad Nafs al-Zakiyyah who arrived in Morocco at the end of the seventh century as well as the descendants of Musa al-Jawn who arrived at the end of the ninth century.

Morocco is also the home of descendants of Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq, Imam Musa al-Kaẓim, and Imam Muhammad al-Taqi. As a stronghold of the progeny of the Prophet, there was certainly no shortage of Shiite sentiment in Morocco or al-Maghrib al-Aqsa.

The Shiite Imams have played a foundational role in the spiritual chains of transmission of the major Sufi paths found in North Africa and al-Andalus: the ‘Alawiyyah, the Idrisiyyah, the Shadhiliyyah, the Qadiriyyah, and the Tijaniyyah.

North Africa and al-Andalus was also the home to Berber Shiites tribes including: the Zanata, the Kutamah, the Miknasah, the Awrabah, the Barghawatah, the Masmudah, and the Banu Lamas.

North Africa and al-Andalus was also the home to many Shiite Arab refugees, the most famous of whom belonged to the tribe of Banu Hashim, and who founded the Idrisid Shiite Dynasty in Morocco. Besides the Banu Hashim, other Arab tribes with Shiite sympathies include the Banu Hilal and the Banu Sulaym.

Another important group of Shiite Arabs in the Maghrib and al-Andalus were the Yemenites. The most important group of Arab Shiites were the Arabized Muwalladun, the descendants of Spanish reverts to Islam.

North Africa and al-Andalus attracted various Shiite sects, including the Bajaliyyah, who were also known as the Musawiyyah and the Waqifiyyah, the Imami Shiites, the predecessors of the Twelver Shiites, the Ismailis, and the Hasanid Shiites.

https://en.shafaqna.com/37489/shiism-in-north-africa-and-islamic-spain/

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Fátima is a city in the municipality of Ourém and district of Santarém in the Central Region of Portugal, with 71.29 km2 of area and 13,212 inhabitants

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Fátim...
 

 

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammudid_dynasty

https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/حمودیان

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/idrisid_dynasty

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Ourém and district of Santarém in the Central Region of Portugal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santarém_District