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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why Is The Islamic World So Behind The West?

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Salam az man!

 

I know I'm not the first Muslim to have these thoughts but in this thread I'd like to explore in depth the 

reasons why the Islamic world as a whole, whether Sunni, Shia or Wahabi,  Sufi or non-Sufi, is so

far the Western or developed countries of the world by almost every possible measure of success.

When did this rot set in if you consider that at one time the Muslim world were world-leaders in almost every

measure of success -- albeit many centuries ago now! So what and when did it all go wrong?

 

Please don't let this become a thread about sectarianism, Sunni vs. Shia etc. unless you feel it is really relevant to the topic!

 

Also can we please avoid the typically bland Muslim answers to this question, "We're not good Muslims anymore -- when

we become good Muslims again Allah will grant us victory!"

 

I do think that the fact we've been divided internally for so long is one reason for our lack of success. Isn't it interesting that

the most developed Muslim countries with the highest quality of life such as Turkey and Malaysia are also the most secular?

 

Some say it was, in the Sunni world at least, when we closed the doors of ijtihad in the 12th century. Others go back further and say

that it was with the rejection of rationalism and the Mutazilites that this problem first started...

 

Also is it a coincidence that almost all of the famous "Muslim" scientists we are so proud of such as Ibn Sina, al Farabi, Ibn Rushd, mathematicians like Khayyam, etc. were considered heretics in their own time by most of the orthodox?

 

I think all this is related.

 

 

These are just some areas of possible discussion.

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Here's my 2c contribution to this thread.   In summary - it's ironic that threads such as this one, which seek to attack lack of Islamic rationality, themselves display a lack of clear analysis!   1.

You are looking for causes to problems in Muslim societies.  Looking for causes to problems is a great way to find solutions! You are an advanced Muslim. Why? because most Muslims ignore problems and

Salam az man!   I know I'm not the first Muslim to have these thoughts but in this thread I'd like to explore in depth the  reasons why the Islamic world as a whole, whether Sunni, Shia or Wahabi,  Su

Hello, I believe the Islamic countries are behind the west because of their culture and tradition. Also like Abu 3anter stated, its also wars and colonialism. The west seems to always never mind its business, for example look how U.S and Israel seem so eager to help the rebels. They only want do this for self- gain..Do you  think they care about a bunch of hooligans that kill their own people? Do you think their blind enough to not see what the rebels really do? No the only reason they want to invade them is for self-gain and superiority. They also don't want any countries surrounding Israel to be more advanced, because that would lead Israel to be invaded.

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Abu 3antaar has highlighted the main points.. They also have communcation and listening issues but the main issue is, they wait for the west to tell them, look your unfair goverment needs to goo. They never attempt to listen to the people, they never move from there sits. They like to do what best for them.

....Oppressers...

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Salam az man!

 

I know I'm not the first Muslim to have these thoughts but in this thread I'd like to explore in depth the 

reasons why the Islamic world as a whole, whether Sunni, Shia or Wahabi,  Sufi or non-Sufi, is so

far the Western or developed countries of the world by almost every possible measure of success.

When did this rot set in if you consider that at one time the Muslim world were world-leaders in almost every

.

 

You are looking for causes to problems in Muslim societies.  Looking for causes to problems is a great way to find solutions! You are an advanced Muslim. Why? because most Muslims ignore problems and choose to live with problems. That is one of the causes!

 

Western Societies do not adapt to problems. They seek out problems and fix them. They find solutions to problems! Western society is a problem solving culture!

 

Muslim societies are the opposite! Muslim societies are problem creating cultures! Sunnis, Shias, Wahabis, Sufis create common problems: Poverty, sickness, diseases, violence, rape, murder, unemployment, the list goes on and on. By ignoring problems, the problems become bigger! For example, there are photos on the Internet of thirsty Muslim children drinking sewer water in streets and get sick with diseases. Why is this happening? Muslims living in those cities ignored the problem and live with the problem of children drinking filthy sewer water! That problem is growing because their children get sick with diseases! Those Muslims are creating problems! It is a problem creating culture!

 

What does the Holy Quran say about problems? When Muslims go to Mosques, Universities, and religious meetings to learn about Islam, do their leaders speak frequently about solving problems? Yes or No? If the answer is NO, it is one of the causes! If the answer is NO, it means Mullahs, Marjahs, Mujtahid, Ulema, etc. are part of the problem!

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great empire rise and fall, what once were great civilizations fall, and power shifts. But you would be a fool if you think that a civilizations stays powerful forever, history has proven that to be false.

 

But If you want a specific answer, Islamic civilization fell behind when it stopped putting importance on sciences and failed to innovate.The last powerful empire, the Ottomans did too little too late.

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I think the Arab empire made it to the top due to some factors that are comparable with modern day advanced world:

1-capitalism: Arabs plus the Islamic laws of trade made it possible for nations that were ruled by kings to abandon the feudalism to some extent. Modern day Islsmic countries re adopted the old system.

2- multiculturalism : despite the causes that lead to that in old Islamic civilization, the many cultures interacting with each other created a fertile intellectual environment, the same cannot be said about modern day Muslim countries.

3- colonization

4- Turks involvement: the Turks involvement seems to be weakening factor.

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Western Societies do not adapt to problems. They seek out problems and fix them. They find solutions to problems! Western society is a problem solving culture!

 

Im not sure thats true regarding social problems. I can i dentify several growing social problems in the UK that the government is/will ignore until it gets to a crisis/tipping point when there will be a backlash. This is not a healthy approach.

 

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Western Societies do not adapt to problems. They seek out problems and fix them. They find solutions to problems! Western society is a problem solving culture

(salam)

I don't think governments seek out problems to fix except in a small number of cases such as national security where they themselves are under threat. Calling western society a problem solving one seems far fetched when there are plenty of problems in the West.

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(salam)

I don't think governments seek out problems to fix except in a small number of cases such as national security where they themselves are under threat. Calling western society a problem solving one seems far fetched when there are plenty of problems in the West.

 

Most western societies are relatively much better at addressing in house issues, such as health care and education etc.  As far as national security is concerned, they have actually made western societies and borders far less safer through their aggressive foreign policy. 

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  Because we failed to secularise. western Europe did their offspring Australia America Canada etc then the nations they conquered Japan south Korea Hong Kong Taiwan etc.  While eastern Europe and the Muslim world and Africa remained in their saint kneeling grave licking ceremonies and African witchdoctor ceremonies. While the west opens their doors to all humanity white black Asian Buddhist atheist Muslim Jew we still judge people by whether yr Sunni or shia or arab or ajam or which tribe yr from. If the west are ahead then they deserve to be Allah is all wise he gives power to the better civilisations.

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Salam az man!

 

I know I'm not the first Muslim to have these thoughts but in this thread I'd like to explore in depth the 

reasons why the Islamic world as a whole, whether Sunni, Shia or Wahabi,  Sufi or non-Sufi, is so

far the Western or developed countries of the world by almost every possible measure of success.

When did this rot set in if you consider that at one time the Muslim world were world-leaders in almost every

measure of success -- albeit many centuries ago now! So what and when did it all go wrong?

 

Please don't let this become a thread about sectarianism, Sunni vs. Shia etc. unless you feel it is really relevant to the topic!

 

Also can we please avoid the typically bland Muslim answers to this question, "We're not good Muslims anymore -- when

we become good Muslims again Allah will grant us victory!"

 

I do think that the fact we've been divided internally for so long is one reason for our lack of success. Isn't it interesting that

the most developed Muslim countries with the highest quality of life such as Turkey and Malaysia are also the most secular?

 

Some say it was, in the Sunni world at least, when we closed the doors of ijtihad in the 12th century. Others go back further and say

that it was with the rejection of rationalism and the Mutazilites that this problem first started...

 

Also is it a coincidence that almost all of the famous "Muslim" scientists we are so proud of such as Ibn Sina, al Farabi, Ibn Rushd, mathematicians like Khayyam, etc. were considered heretics in their own time by most of the orthodox?

 

I think all this is related.

 

 

These are just some areas of possible discussion.

 

the islamic world is beyond east and west. at the same time islam is always victorious, even if it exists in one poor person in this life, living in a cave somewhere.

 

what we must understand is the narrations that say how one day islam will exist only in name, while a small group of people will struggle in the way of Allah. 

 

at the same time the islam and holy quran teaches us not to care if non-believers are given more than us in this world, and that all that matters is the next life. we can ask ourselves the question of why the islamic world lost its connection to true islam, which can be blamed on the majority of people who eneded up selling their souls. 

 

 

they ended up trading comfort and rotten alliances, while using the islam identity to justify their corruption. i think most muslims are aware of this today, when its more obvious than ever. well, i believe the most obvious was when self-proclaimed muslims decapitated imam hussain & family, and took rest as prisoners.

 

anyway, here are couple of verses from the quran that relate in sha Allah

 

 

Do not extend your eyes toward that by which We have given enjoyment to categories of them, and do not grieve over them. And lower your wing to the believers 15:88

 

Or do you think that you will enter Paradise while such [trial] has not yet come to you as came to those who passed on before you? They were touched by poverty and hardship and were shaken until [even their] messenger and those who believed with him said,"When is the help of Allah ?" Unquestionably, the help of Allah is near. 2:214

 

So do not weaken and do not grieve, and you will be superior if you are believers. 3:139

 

 

islam has never in the history of mankind been given the victory of Allah which is promised in the quran, as well as other heavenly religions.

 

so, for anybody who is wanting to see the victory of Islam on earth, over the koffar, mushriqs and munafiqs, should pray and do duas really hard to be among the chosen ones to witness the rising of baqyat Allah. even if we don't survive to that day in our current bodies, just by us connecting spiritually to this, will bring us peace in our hearts, nurtured by resonance to that hope and light at the end of the tunnel.

 

(wasalam)

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Allah has given the chance to others because Muslims were terrible when we had the chance, we can look at the Umayyads, Ottomans, Safavids, Qajaris, Mugals, Mamluks, etc. etc.

 

Every group was given a chance to rule. I'd say the group from the Muslims that did a half-decent job was the Buwayids. But that's my opinion.

 

Before the 20th century the Jews were given the chance to rule twice and twice they messed up. I believe we won't fair much different if we have power again. An interesting story comes to mind about Jews in Russia at the time of Napoleon. The Jews supported Napoleon conquering Russia because they perceived him to be much more lenient in-terms of religious freedom in contrast to the Tzar of the time. Some Rabbis were against the Jews being given any such emancipation even at the cost of living under the oppressive Tzar because as one Rabbi claimed that they would become haughty and materialistic once again as they had in times gone by. There is a lesson in this for us.

 

Never the less I wish only freedom for all my Muslim brethren, whether we deserve it is the question. If we are give the power again, chances are like Israelis are doing to Palestinians; we as the mustad'afeen (oppressed) will become the oppressors.

 

Was-Salaam

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The blind leading the blind. 

 

Some of us are cowards, some of us are selfish, some of us are lazy, too many factors to count.

 

But imperialism, propaganda, wars etc. are the backbone of it all.

(salam)

Yet, a lot of stuff I hear sounds to me like "cry babies". To this I can add cronyism, and as an Egyptian friend of mine once explained, "everyone (among the Arabs) thinks he is the one that has the right to show-off" (paraphrase).

 

I can add, unless it is state sponsored, no one thinks on an industrial scale.

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I think the Arab empire made it to the top due to some factors that are comparable with modern day advanced world:

1-capitalism: Arabs plus the Islamic laws of trade made it possible for nations that were ruled by kings to abandon the feudalism to some extent. Modern day Islsmic countries re adopted the old system.

2- multiculturalism : despite the causes that lead to that in old Islamic civilization, the many cultures interacting with each other created a fertile intellectual environment, the same cannot be said about modern day Muslim countries.

3- colonization

4- Turks involvement: the Turks involvement seems to be weakening factor.

The Turks had had largely  dominated the Islamic world since 1000 A.D, from the Seljuks, although at times power sometimes  shifted to  Ayyubid Kurds and Mamluks from the caucusus. Anyways, you are horribly ignorant of history if you think Turks "weakened" Islamic civilization. The Ottomans formed the longest lasting empire and during its height stretched from Hungary to Algeria, and until the nineteenth century threatened to overrun Europe. If anything, The Arab rebels had ruined their own lands when they allowed their countries to be cut up into pieces, the Turks in contrast were able to maintain complete independence of  their country and drive away the Europeans. 

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The Turks had had largely  dominated the Islamic world since 1000 A.D, from the Seljuks, although at times power sometimes  shifted to  Ayyubid Kurds and Mamluks from the caucusus. Anyways, you are horribly ignorant of history if you think Turks "weakened" Islamic civilization. The Ottomans formed the longest lasting empire and during its height stretched from Hungary to Algeria, and until the nineteenth century threatened to overrun Europe. If anything, The Arab rebels had ruined their own lands when they allowed their countries to be cut up into pieces, the Turks in contrast were able to maintain complete independence of  their country and drive away the Europeans. 

explain how the Islamic world was in its best shape during the Ottoman rule? I am speaking about cultural contribution to humanity. The Islamic world during Ottoman empire era was ruled by strict administration that did not allow any local administration from taking part in the ruling. It was very centric. This strict administration plus the bloody taxes on people despite their poverty had weakened the rest of Islamic world from forming their own local government or making their own local economy.

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(salam)

 

Another point: Once the Evilgelical West got control over the Muslims, one of the first things they did was to put in puppets who destroyed the education systems.

Example, at the time of the Islamic Revolution in Iran, only 10% of women could read.

Now, Iran has 90% literacy I think it is.

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I do think that the fact we've been divided internally for so long is one reason for our lack of success. Isn't it interesting that

the most developed Muslim countries with the highest quality of life such as Turkey and Malaysia are also the most secular?

 

Some say it was, in the Sunni world at least, when we closed the doors of ijtihad in the 12th century. Others go back further and say

that it was with the rejection of rationalism and the Mutazilites that this problem first started...

 

Also is it a coincidence that almost all of the famous "Muslim" scientists we are so proud of such as Ibn Sina, al Farabi, Ibn Rushd, mathematicians like Khayyam, etc. were considered heretics in their own time by most of the orthodox?

 

I think all this is related.

 

 

These are just some areas of possible discussion.

 

I blame, apart from uncontrollable factors which impede the growth of society, the orthodox mullah for the backwardness found in many Muslim societies. By shutting out reformists and scientists, they wanted to maintain their influence and sway over the Muslim community. Muslim societies were constantly fed with the "Islam is in danger" rhetoric, and the thinkers were forced (read :heretics) to shoulder the blame for it. 

 When the Muslims lost tangible power, the game became even more easier. Now the losses were blamed on a lack of faith and the unislamic practises that had made their way into the society. Nevermind the worldly factors, success in the secular world now depended on the frequency of worship of the Muslims. 

 In South Asia, Shah Waliullah, Haji Shariatullah etc led campaigns to purge Islam of evil practises, because apparently they had brought about the fall of the Muslim empire. The Arabs Sunnis found the same approach in Ibn Wahhab. Their puritanical approach formed the basis of Wahhabism/deobandism.

  Their style of politics, based on exploitation of the name of Islam, has hindered the growth of critical thinking in Muslim communities. 

  Scholars of worldly sciences and proponents of scientific education were shunned and denounced by the mullahs and men like Sir Syed were labelled heretics. 

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Some interesting replies especially by Brained, JawsofDeth, ImamAliwabas, and all other brothers who

contributed. I do reject the blame on colonialism because you have to then ask yourself -- why did

we become so weak to allow ourselves to become colonised all over?

 

I don't think any one group of Muslims is to blame but what we have in common--already seeiing it

on here in this thread is a 'blame the other' syndrome.

 

What was it that made us go from world-leaders in science and technology to the level where all our lands were

colonised by tiny islands like England? They were going through the industrial revolution and renaissance whilst

we were still arguing over whether to pray with our hands folded or empty etc.! 

 

And this idea of 'this duniya has been given to the kuffar and we have been given jannah!' (though true in one sense)

is a big cop-out because we don't say that when WE were powerful in this world! It is hypocritical for us to fall back on this

argument!)

 

If this world hadn't been important at all Islam would never have left Makkah or the Arabian peninsula and conquered much of the world! The Prophet and the Sahaba, Ahle Bayt, etc. would just have lived as ascetics and spent all their time

praying. Though they were often ascetic at times they lived in this world too!

 

There must have been some point in Islamic history when fresh thinking stopped and copying the great

men of the past became the whole point. So instead of originality we have people just believing in XYZ because a famous

scholar of the past had held that view. It goes on to this day. The ulema are still learning the same philosophy and astronomy, for example, as in the middle ages whilst both subjects have moved on so much! I once had a discussion with a learned mawlana who told me about the four elements that all the world is made up of -- air, fire, wind and water and that it is impossible to go to the moon because it in the first heaven...

 

These mullahs -- who are blameless in the sense that a person can only know what he has been taught!--hold massive sway over large percentages of the public and hence instead of looking inward we look outward for our current situation.

 

(Imho ulema's role is to help the people with their day to day religious and spiritual matters which are individual but in our countries they have controlled too much of the political and social development too whether directly or indirectly since people are terrified of being labelled 'kafir' or heretic!

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If this world hadn't been important at all Islam would never have left Makkah or the Arabian peninsula and conquered much of the world! The Prophet and the Sahaba, Ahle Bayt, etc. would just have lived as ascetics and spent all their time

praying. Though they were often ascetic at times they lived in this world too!

 

Hold on a second, for the record the holy Prophet (PBUH) and the Imaams of the AhlulBayt (AS) weren't conquerors and/ or colonialists. Wars were fought in defence. The 3 Khulafah were responsible for expanding the Islamic state to the point of "empire," using this precedent- every other dynasty expanded the original Islamic state. I believe the kind of near-utopian state that the holy Prophet (PBUH) founded, if maintained by design by the purest leaders at the helm- would have grown organically. Like every migrant population that moved to America because it was the "land of opportunity" and "land of milk and honey," the Islamic state would have grown because of it's power to influence hearts and minds. The real land of peace.

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Taxes and a Discouraged Middle Class

 

War and military expansion had been a primary source of wealth for Islamic society, and when that stopped in the 1500s rulers demanded more in taxes and seized the properties of merchants and entrepreneurs. As a consequence, less wealth was invested in the economy. Some manufacturing continued, such as cotton weaving and the production of raw silk, but in the Ottoman Empire money to invest in the growth of manufacturing was diminished.

The sultan's government had been selling the job of tax collecting, and the buyer of this position collected enough in taxes to satisfy the income wants of the authorities and himself. The tax collector decided how much to tax. The poor who scratched a living from the soil had little to tax, but anyone who could afford to invest in a new enterprise became an obvious target for tax collection and bribery by officials.

The government raised money also by the sale offices to the highest bidder, in part so the sultan and an elite could continue to live in the luxury to which they were accustomed. Rather than people being selected for administrative offices based on merit – training, competence and talent – government offices were going to people who had money. And promotion by merit had been replaced by nepotism and favoritism. Corruption had spread to the provinces where an official would buy his office and then squeeze more taxes from the populace to reimburse himself. And corruption reached judicial officials, whose decisions were at times for sale. In the 1600s the Ottoman historian, Haji Khalifa (1608-1657), saw Ottoman society resting on four pillars: the mullahs (Islamic clerics) the army, the merchants and the farmers, and he saw Ottoman society as sick because of corruption, high taxation and oppression of the masses. There were rebellions by the oppressed, but the rebellions were always crushed.

The economy of the Ottoman Empire was hurt also by an unfavorable balance of trade. Wealthy Muslims were purchasing goods from Christendom, but little was being exported and the supply of gold was diminishing. As manufactured goods flowed into the Ottoman Empire, local handicraft industries suffered. Manufacturing remained largely a peasant operation – home industry. Foot-operated treadle reels, hand-operated looms and silk-twisting machines were to be used in the Ottoman Empire into the 1800s. And, for the Ottoman Empire, economic weakness produced military weakness.

 

http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h21-ot3.htm

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I came across an answer to a question similar to this by 'chance' today by Seyyed Hossein Nasr which I think is the

most beautiful and profound and balanced:

 

 

ALI: Muslims look at the world right now, specifically the Muslim “ummah”[community], and they see instability, suffering, authoritarian regimes, oppression and so forth. So, many Muslims ask what will all this fasting, this dhikr [remembrance and invocation of God], this tazkiyat al nafs [spiritualexercises in purification], and all this Sufi practice help? How do all these spiritual Sufi practices help the Muslims suffering in Palestine,Chechnya or Iraq? People say this is like Muslims who live in a bubble and put their heads in the sand, but in order to help people one must be more political. So, what’s your take on that?

NASR: It’s total nonsense. There are many, many answers to this question. The main answer is that the Islamic world is suffering not only because of external oppression but also because of the loss of its own dignity, of its own heritage, of its own practice of Islam, of its weakening of its own ethics, and many things which are internal to Islam not just external. Now, Sufism has always had the function of purifying Islamic ethics and that fasting and tazkiyais like lighting a lamp. What does a lamp do? The lamp is like a horse that is running but stays put. But by virtue of being a lamp it illuminates the space around it. Therefore, the practice of purifying one’s soul, of living virtuously,has tremendous impacts upon the ethics of the surrounding society.

The Islamic world is not only suffering from the American occupation of Palestine and Iraq, it’s also suffering from the unbelievable corruption in Afghanistan by Afghans themselves and also in Iraq – I’m just giving these 2 examples of countries which are under direct occupation; I do not mean at all to negate the terrible events that led to this or what’s going on with the foreign occupation there. But I’m saying that it is not the only problem and Sufis have always been those that have tried to purify the ethics of Islam and society. And they don’t have their hands cut off from the external action at all. For example, the bazaar in which the Sufis were very strong always dominated economic life in Islamic world. They could give a much more sane and Islamic form of activity when the economic life of Islam moved out of the bazaar to new parts of Islamic cities with modernized Muslims, who took it in another light and it became very, very antiIslamic, and much against many of the most profound practices of Islamic societies. 
There is no way through out Islamic society for Islam as a society, as a civilization, to revive itself without this inner spiritual vitality that came to it. And also militarily, the great movements of resistance against colonial powers in the 18th and 19th century were almost all from Sufis: Imam Shamil in Caucasia, Amir Abd al Qadir in Algeria, The Barelvi family in the modern province of India, today which is Pakistan, and you can go down the line. What is tragic today is that there is a number of Muslims who think that all the solutions are to be found simply by external actions. They don’t have to do anything within themselves. This is a deeply Western idea – modern, Western idea, where you try to improve the world without improving yourself. And this is what the Muslims who talk about others putting their heads in the sand and that “We are doing jihad and we are political” and so forth, they are emulating a very important mistake of modernism.

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(salam ) 

 

The west has been created  by elite Muslims , who were really Jews hiding their religion , and who also at times pretend to be Elite Christians like the :Pope.

The :islamic world created by the  :Bani-Ummayads (la) who were really jews  migrated to the west , married into European royal families and took over Europe , UK and USA.

:Yazid (la) had a daughter , her 5th generation of decedents migrated to Europe and UK.

The System of the East and the West , is theirs .

They control all technology and release it slowly as they wish.

They also work with :Jinns and other entities.

They have technology 20,000 years ahead .

Hard to believe this .

I have mentioned this before in detail and I can verify their detailed genealogy.

Therefore the so called West is the creation of the so called Islamic world created by :Yazid (la) and :Muawiya (la) (666 AD)  in their green palaces.

Freaky hey ....

ws

 

 

 

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You can see it as MANIFEST TRUTH.

 

You can see it right in this forum.

 

Search for my post on solar cell and other technologies, not one single reply, zero, zilch.

 

The answer is in ONE SINGLE word.

 

WAHAN.

 

and in english, SELF-CENTERED-NESS.

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(salam )  

The west has been created  by elite Muslims , who were really Jews hiding their religion , and who also at times pretend to be Elite Christians like the :Pope.

The :islamic world created by the  :Bani-Ummayads (la) who were really jews  migrated to the west , married into European royal families and took over Europe , UK and USA.

:Yazid (la) had a daughter , her 5th generation of decedents migrated to Europe and UK.

The System of the East and the West , is theirs .

They control all technology and release it slowly as they wish.

They also work with :Jinns and other entities.

They have technology 20,000 years ahead .

Hard to believe this .

I have mentioned this before in detail and I can verify their detailed genealogy.

Therefore the so called West is the creation of the so called Islamic world created by :Yazid (la) and :Muawiya (la) (666 AD)  in their green palaces.

Freaky hey ....

ws

Where do you get this stuff from? Somehow you're the only person privy to all this bizarre, classified information.

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The economic system they use is based on usury, and practising muslims are being protected from going to far in a system based on usury. If muslims want to be very wealthy, they need for fix their economic system first-- Inshallah.

 

all muslims born into this world enters into the usury system through the birth certificate , so there's no escape from it unless you're a full blood Australian aborigines.

There's no :Islamic system to fix .

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Due to my past, and background, I am experienced enough to give (what i feel) is a practical answer, and possible solution.

 

firstly, we need to stop looking at examples of the past such as the buwayids etc, they do not apply here and now.

Secondly, we need to look past sects, this issue permeated all sects, all subsets and all labels.

 

To summarise the problem, there are 4 layers - the individual. the family unit, the community and the country.

 

i will explain all 4 one by one.

 

please appreciate I am summarising 10+ years experience so am summarising way too much

 

(1) the individual.

 

Please review this video:

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfC3JdkEVgQ

 

in order for an individual to be successful. they have to be passionate and driven in whatever field they do. if you are forced by culture to be shoehorned into medecine, law or engineering, and made to feel like a loser if you do not, then it is obvious that people will not be passionate.

 

if you are forced to marry whoever your parents decide, and "for my families honour" settle for manjoola from the village. then you will be setting obstacles for your own happiness in the future since you will have no passion to make her happy and so on.

 

the first change must come from the individual themselves.

 

their parents role is to instil in them what is halal, what is haram and an appreciation of culture but not to the extent it overrides islam.

 

once individuals are free to pursue their passions, it collectively benefits everyone in our ummah. instead of being wage slaves for the greater good, we are collectively living a life we choose to make beautiful.

 

when people are passionate about their fields of expertise, these come together beautifully.

 

an example of this in the past is Nazi Germany under hitler (May Allah curse the opressors). no doubt the system was evil and crazy, but any level of research into actual german life in nazi germany shows a people who realised that the country is made up of individuals, so each had to contribute to the best of their ability. and we cannot deny it was pretty successful, no matter how mental its intentions were.

 

(2) the family unit

 

again, this is where all muslims shoot themselves in the foot. the parents role is to be a moral compass, to teach the halal and haram and to be a guide. our cultures have created mini kingdoms in each house where the father is unquestionable, culture is absolutely unchangeable and we should never trust the kaffir dogs we live amongst.

 

this has to change.

 

it is too late for our generation, but soon our generation will be parents. please....for the sake of the ummah...do not repeat the mistakes of our elders. their times were different. in their times, white people saw coloured people as less than animals. this made our parents generation mistrustful and clannish, which they passed on to us. im not saying that racism is gone, but its not so bad.

 

teach your children morals, teach them halal and haram and raise them yourself. if you ship your kids off to madressa every night, because you imagine they will become good muslims, they will not become what is in your imagination, they will become what is in the madressa teachers imagination.

 

i know its hard when you are tired from work, struggling with bills etc. but by god learn to make the effort. sit with your children, talk to them, teach them. make it a routine.

 

the children who are successul (in terms of not sleeping around/drugs/alcohol and leading professional lives while staying true to islam) are those whose parents were accessible to them. whose parents talked to them and allowed their children to confide in them. unfortunately, islamic families can only see "family honour" and "how dare my children not obey every thing i ever say".

 

when the individual is happy, this is the clay. when the family is happy, the clay becomes a brick. when a community is happy, the bricks become a building.

 

(3) the community

 

our communities are rubbish.

 

we make too many masjids, not enough people to go round, the wrong people leading the committee and not enough useful practical things to do.

 

if the community see that going to the masjid outside muharram and ramzan is pointless, then obviously they will find a community to be part of elsewhere.

 

our masjids are emptying so the kids are taking up sports (not a bad thing), the parents are either socialising with work friends or old friends etc. find a way to bring them back.

 

(4) the country

 

harsh reality - muslim theological governments have never worked, will never work and can never work. they fail. theres a reason why our imams (as) did not tell us to go create theological governments (sorry WF supporters)

 

instead, we need a secular, democratic government. keep religion out of politics. if people want to commit sins against themselves, thats their problem. if two consenting adults choose to do something in private, its their problem. islamic countrys start frothing at the mouth to "stop sin" when in reality its a stupid, naive and ignorant attitude to take.

 

crimes against others, such as murder, rape, fraud etc obviously need laws implementing (such as jail time)

 

sins against the self are between the sinner and Allah, until the representative of Allah Sahib uz zaman (atf) returns. keep mullahs out of it.

 

so these are the 4 layers why muslims in the west fail.

 

basically, through our own designs, by our own hands, we have damaged our own chances at being successful at any layer of society, and instead of blaming ourselves, we blame illuminati, freemasons, zionists, the americans, other sects and everyone else we can imagine.

 

if you want to change - BE THE CHANGE.

 

it will take a few generations, but i am hopeful for our generation. it starts with the individuals, so teach your children to find a passion and excel in it. it might be art, it might be accountancy, it might be marine archaeology, it doesnt matter. once that generation is up and running, THEIR generation will be the one to lift us up out of this mess we have created.

 

things like sectarianism thrive because people fail at one or more or all of these layers.

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explain how the Islamic world was in its best shape during the Ottoman rule? I am speaking about cultural contribution to humanity. The Islamic world during Ottoman empire era was ruled by strict administration that did not allow any local administration from taking part in the ruling. It was very centric. This strict administration plus the bloody taxes on people despite their poverty had weakened the rest of Islamic world from forming their own local government or making their own local economy.How do you 

Well for several centuries they stopped invaders from humiliating the Islamic world the way that Arab countries are being humiliated today. Look at the middle east .  And what you said was completely opposite of what the Turks did, they were very much dependent on allowing local vilayets to administer their provinces and provided for all minorities within their empire. They only began to tighten their authority during the late nineteenth century before WW2 before they were betrayed by the cowardly Hashemites who served as loyal servants to the British.

 

However, you are attributing the decline of Islamic civilization to the Turks, where the Turks dominated most of the Islamic world since 1000 AD. Do you mean to suggest that Islamic civilization collapsed then, as opposed to 1920? 

who would you suggest would be able to uphold Islamic civilization if not the Turks then? 

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