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In the Name of God بسم الله

Abu Talib Was A Muslim

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(bismillah)

(salam)

As you know the unjust media has spread for 1400 years lies about the Shia, and one of the lies that got famous overtime is that people call Abu Talib (as) not a muslim just because he is the father of Ali (as). So this video was made to prove that Abu Talib (as) was always a monothiest wal Hamdoulilah

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Those people who claim and believe that Hazrath Abu Talib (as) was not a Muslim and never accepted Islam, basically accept, claim and believe in the following; that the Prophet [pbuh] was raised and protected by and socialised with a Mushrik or Kafir, who happen to be najas. There are certain things that are associated with a Mushrik or Kafir that happen to be najas, for example nutrition. So basically the Prophet [pbuh] was raised and given nutrition by a Mushrik or Kafir. Was he??? Was he really??? People with such belief really need to think and i mean think hard!

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You know not all Sunnis believe that. I'm a Sunni-Sufi and all the people I know believe Hazrat Abu Talib

radi Allahu anhu was a Muslim. For example the great scholar Sayyid Yusuf al-Nabahani (rahmatullah alayhi)

wrote a whole book proving that Hazrat Abu Talib was a Muslim. Yes, other Sunni scholars have had the opposite view

but it is not all Sunnis by any means -- maybe not even the majority. It seems to me that Sunnis vary greatly in some matters with

Sunnis from Indo-Pak, Indonesia, Malaysia and North Africa being much closer to the views of Shia in some matters regarding the Ahle Bayt -- this is especially true of those Sunnis who belong to a Sufi tariqa or at least are influenced by one. 

 

From saying Ya Ali madad and the Naad e Ali to believing in the Panjtan Paak, commemorating Imam Hussain alayhisalam's martyrdom to considering Yazid a kafir and Abu Talib a Muslim...these are all very common beliefs amongst vast swathes of Sunni Muslims, especially Barelvis and those with a Sufi -affiliation. At the same time we don't believe in everything the same as you otherwise we'd be Shias but the point is there is a lot of grey area in between and common ground. It isn't just B & W as extremists on both sides would like to think.

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You know not all Sunnis believe that. I'm a Sunni-Sufi and all the people I know believe Hazrat Abu Talib

radi Allahu anhu was a Muslim. For example the great scholar Sayyid Yusuf al-Nabahani (rahmatullah alayhi)

wrote a whole book proving that Hazrat Abu Talib was a Muslim. Yes, other Sunni scholars have had the opposite view

but it is not all Sunnis by any means -- maybe not even the majority. It seems to me that Sunnis vary greatly in some matters with

Sunnis from Indo-Pak, Indonesia, Malaysia and North Africa being much closer to the views of Shia in some matters regarding the Ahle Bayt -- this is especially true of those Sunnis who belong to a Sufi tariqa or at least are influenced by one. 

 

From saying Ya Ali madad and the Naad e Ali to believing in the Panjtan Paak, commemorating Imam Hussain alayhisalam's martyrdom to considering Yazid a kafir and Abu Talib a Muslim...these are all very common beliefs amongst vast swathes of Sunni Muslims, especially Barelvis and those with a Sufi -affiliation. At the same time we don't believe in everything the same as you otherwise we'd be Shias but the point is there is a lot of grey area in between and common ground. It isn't just B & W as extremists on both sides would like to think.

. .

 

Oh my God, your personal style SO reminds me of Sean Jobst.

[ I mean  CUT  AND  PASTE  ad infinitum of hugh stores of on cyber "knowlege," "wisdom," "intimate familiarity with finest details" of materials of which the man knew very little in person]

Edited by Ahmed Ismael
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a kaffir cannot read the nikkah of two muslims.

 

Hazrat abu Talib (as) read the nikkah of the holy prophet (pbuh) and lady Khatija (sa)

 

the narrator who "witnessed" hazrat abu talib (sa) refusing to say shahada on his death bed despite the prophet begging him in his final moments was none other than the totally relibale abu hurraira. who happened to be 2 years old at the time. in yemen, and a kaffir. quite how he witnessed the death bed of the hazrat abu talib (as) is a mystery only he and Allah knows.

 

discussion over.

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a kaffir cannot read the nikkah of two muslims.

 

Hazrat abu Talib (as) read the nikkah of the holy prophet (pbuh) and lady Khatija (sa)

 

the narrator who "witnessed" hazrat abu talib (sa) refusing to say shahada on his death bed despite the prophet begging him in his final moments was none other than the totally relibale abu hurraira. who happened to be 2 years old at the time. in yemen, and a kaffir. quite how he witnessed the death bed of the hazrat abu talib (as) is a mystery only he and Allah knows.

 

discussion over.

 

(salam)

 

are you sure he was 2 years old?

 

The year of birth Abu Hurairah : 603 AD

The year of death Abu Talib (as) : 619 AD

 

so it means Abu Hurairah was 16 years old? 

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honestly I don't know why you said abu hurairah was 2 years old at that time? I might be wrong. but how did you say he was 2 years old? 

Just a small mistake in counting but that does't matter. As for me I have not read the narration that it's from Abu Huraira but even if its narrated by Abu Huraira, he Abu Huraira came around khaibar to Medina. Abu Huraira came around 8 ah while Abu Talib (as) died before the hijra. However if the brother is refering to that Abu Huraira knows the prophet Muhammad (as) for only 2 years than that is true.

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Hazrart Abu Talib Is A beliver of Allah. And the rumors started more than 1000 years ago, sadly some of our brothers & sister only listen to what people say, rather then read & research.

bismallah Wa Ramotlallh Wa barakao.

It would be interesting if we analyze the verses that some Sunni
commentators have aleged to have revealed for the disbelief of Abu Talib
(RA). The first one is:

Surah VI - The Cattle (An'aam) - Verse 26
-----------------------------------------

And they prohibit ( others ) from it and go far away from it,
and they only bring destruction upon their own souls while they
do not perceive it.

- Tabari relates from Sufiyan Soori who relates it from Habeeb ibn
Abu Sabit who narrated it from somebody saying that Ibn Abbas
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
said 'that this verse came down for Abu Talib, because he used to
protect Muhammad from the Kufar but he never recited the Kalima.'

Sunni references

- Tabaqat of Ibne Sa'ad, v 2 p 105
- History of Tabari, v 7 p 100
- Tafseer Ibn Katheer, v 2 p 127
- Tafseer Kashaf, v 1 p 448
- Tafseer Qurtubi, v 6 p 406
- ... and many many more

Now let us see for ourselves if the ideology behind the above
interpretation
is correct or not, so that we would have no doubts in our minds. Further
scrutiny of the above interpretation would lead us to believe that it is
nothing but a futile effort to discredit Abu Talib:

- The verse talks about living people, since the verse mentions
that ' people who prevent others from doing it and neither do
it '. Of course a dead person can't think of preventing others
from a course of action, and they have to be living to do so.
This convinces us to believe that this verse can't be for
Abu Talib.

- The chain of narrators terminates after Habeeb ibn Abu Sabit
and Sufyan doesn't mention who narrated it from Habeeb ibn Abu
Sabit, and all he says that he ( Habeeb ) narrated it from some
one who heard it from Ibn Abbas.

This criterion is not acceptable according to the standards of
hadeeth, since the chain of narrators is incomplete, therefore
this hadeeth is unacceptable.

But for argument sake if we still accept the chain of narrators, and the
fact that Habeeb ibn Abu Sabit is the only person who narrates it, the
books of Rijal testify to the fact that we can't accept this tradition, for
the following reasons

- In the eyes if Ibn Habban, Habeeb is a 'deceiver', and Aqeeli Ibn
Aun has 'avoided' Habeeb since Habeeb has copied hadeeths from
Ata'a which are ' absolutely unacceptable '.
Qita'an says that Habeeb's hadeeths other than Ata'a are also
unacceptable and are not safe from being fake. Abu Dawood quotes
from Ajri that the hadeeths narrated by Habeeb from Ibn Zamrah
are not correct. Ibn Khazeema comments that Habeeb is a
'deceiver'

Sunni reference

- Tahzeeb al-Tahzeeb, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v 2 p 179

Therefore the tradition narrated by Habeeb is his personal innovation, and
after reading the views of so many Rijal experts how can we accept his
hadeeth?

But this shouldn't stop us from further investigating the issue, and if we
accept the fact that Habeeb can be trusted, let us look at Sufyan who is
the last narrator in the chain of the tradition against Abu Talib. We still
have to declare this hadeeth void, because, al-Dhahabi writes about him
that

"Sufyan narrations are lies"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sunni reference

- Mizan al-Itidal, by al-Dhahabi, v 1 p 396


I find it very difficult to believe that despite the fact the commentators
who have written down the traditions are respectable personalities, they
have copied it down from cheap people such as above, without any
hesitation.

Despite all these weak traditions that have been narrated by weak
narrators, we find hadeeths related by Ibn Abbas that are genuine and state
the opposite of what we find in the hadeeth mentioned above. Let see what
they have to offer

- Tabari states that the above verse came down for all the mushrikeen
who used to stay away from the Prophet and used to advise others to
stay away from him ( the Prophet ).

Sunni reference

- Tafseer Tabari, v 7 p 109
- Tafseer Durre Manthoor, v 3 p 8

The fact is that Abu Talib never advised others to stay away from Prophet
(PBUH&HF). Even many of those who accused him for not uttering Shahadah,
confess that he helped the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) during those days of
tribulations of the young Islam with all his means. Also he raised the
Prophet when he was child, and then accepted that Imam Ali (AS) to be
raised by Prophet. He, in fact, was Muslim from the begining, but was
ordered by Prophet to practice Taqiyya (to conceal his belief) so that he
could play as a mediator between Prophet and chiefs of unbelievers in Mecca
(like Abu Sufyan).

Also it is important to note that we do NOT believe that the parents of
Prophets and Imams were necessarily perfect (Infallible). However we
believe that their parents and all their forefathers were righteous and
believers and monotheist during their entire life.
 

A number of historians and hadith recorders reported that Abu Talib died
while he was a pagan. Some of them reported the verse ' It is not
permissible to the Prophet and the believers to ask God to forgive the
pagans even if they were akin to them, after it became clear to them that
those pagans are from the people of hell .'

Such false commentaries and statements were fabricated as a part of the
smear campaign which the Omayyads and their allies waged against Imam Ali
(AS). By fabricating such traditions they tried these to convince people
that Abu Sufyan, father of Muawiyyah was better than Abu Talib, father of
Imam Ali, claiming that Abu Sufyan died while he was a Muslim and Abu TAlib
died while he was a pagan.

The recorders of the hadiths and the historians took these hadiths without
paying attention to the evidence of their forgery. They did not try to
examine these hadiths, yet the date of the revelation of the above
mentioned verse testifies that it was not revealed about a matter
pertaining to Abu Talib ( May Allah be well pleased with him ).

Now coming to the hadith by itself, let see what the most authenticated
book in the eyes of the Sunnis has to say.

al-Bukhari in his Sahih writes

Narrated Al Musaiyab : When Abu Talibs death approached, the
Prophet ( saw ) went to him while Abu Jahl and Abdullah bin
Abi Umaiya were present with him. The Prophet ( saw ) said : ' O
Uncle, say : None has the right to be worshipped except Allah,
so that I may argue for your case with it before Allah. ' On
that Abu Jahl and Abdullah bin Abi Umaiya said : ' O Abu Talib !
Do you want to renounce Abdul Muttalib's religion ? ' Then the
Prophet ( saw ) said, ' I will keep on asking ( Allah for )
forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden to do so. ' Then there
was revealed

It is not fitting for the Prophet and those who believe that
they should pray for forgiveness for pagans even though they
be of kin, after it has become clear to them that they are
the companions of the fire. [ 9 : 113 ]


Sahih Bukhari Kitabul Tafseer
Arabic English
Volume 6
Page 158 Tradition no. 197

The above mentioned verse is a part of the Chapter of Baraat ( number 9 ).
A few points on this Chapter

- this is a totally medinite Chapter, with the exception of the
last two verses ( 128 and 129 )
- the verse which is the subject of our discussion is Verse 113
- the Chapter of Baarat was revealed during the ninth ( 9th ) year
of Hijra. The chapter speaks of the events that took place during
the campaign of Tabuk, which was during the month of Rajab in the
ninth Year. The Prophet ( saw ) had ordered Abu Bakr to announce
first part of it during the days of the pilgrimage of that year
when he sent him as an ' Amir Al Hajj '. Then he sent Imam Ali
to take that part from him and announce it, because God commanded
him that no one should deliver the revelation other than himself
or a man from the members of his House. The chapter speaks of the
events that took place during the campaign of Tabouk, which was
during the month of Rajab in the ninth Year.

Many Sunni traditionist reported that:

The Messenger of Allah sendAbu Bakr to the people of Mecca with the
Chapter of al-Bara'ah and when he proceeded, (the Prophet) sent for
him and asked him to return the chapter and said: "No one takes it to
them except one of my Ahlul-Bayt." and thus he sent Ali for this
mission."

Sunni references:
- Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v2, p183, v5, pp 275,283
- Musnad of Ahmed Hanbal, v1 pp 3,151, v3, pp 212,283
- Fadha'l al-Sahabah, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, p562, Tradition #946
- Hakim in his Mustadrak, v 3 p 51
- Al Nisai in his Khasais al Awliyah, p 20
- Fadhail al Khamsah, v 2 p 343
- Siratun Nabi by Shibli Numani, v 2 p 239

Ahmad in his musnad added that Abu Bakr said : The Prophet ( saw ) had sent
me with the chapter of Baarat to the people of Mecca

No pagan should make pilgrimage after this year. No naked shall
circumnavigate around the Ancient House. No one shall enter paradise
except a Muslim soul. Any pagan community that has been between them
and the Messenger of God a peace accord, the accord will end by the
end by the end of the specified period ( without extension ), and God
and His Messenger are clear of pagans

Also Shibli Numani in his work on the Seera of the Prophet ( saw ) writes
as follows ( p 239 -- > p 240 )

Now in the year 9th Hijri, the Kaaba was for the first time,
consecrated as the central House of Worship for the followers of
Abraham ...... On return from Tabuk the Holy Prophet ( saw ) sent out
a caravan of three hundred muslims from Mecca to Medina to perfrom the
Hajj at Mecca.

Now coming back to the verse of [ 9 : 113 ], the verse could not mean Abu
Talib, because he died in Mecca at least two years before the Hijrah !

I now quote Shibli Numani, in his most celebrated work on the Seera of the
Prophet, Siratun Nabi ( v 1, p 219 and 220 )

Death of Khadija and of Abu Talib
( 10th Year of Revelation )

On return from the mountain, the Prophet had hardly passed a few days
in peace when Abu Talib and Khadija both died. He paid his last visit
to Abu Talib when he was dying. Abu Jahl and Abd Allah ibn Ummaya were
already there. The Prophet asked Abu Talib to recite the credo of
Islam, so that he might bear witness to his faith in the presence of
Allah. Abu Jahl and Ibn Umayya expostulated with Abu Taleb and asked
if he was going to turn away from the religion of Abd Al Muttalib. In
the end Abu Talib said that he was dying with is belief in the
religion of Abd Al Muttalib. Then he turned to the Prophet and said
that he would have recited the creed but he feared lest the Quraish
should accuse him of fear of death. The Prophet said that he would be
praying to Allah for him till He forbade (Bukhari on the Chapter of
Funeral. The last sentence has been taken from Muslim and not
Bukhari). This is the version of Bukhari and Muslim. Ibn Ishaq says
that while dying Abu Talib's lips were in motion. al-Abbas who was
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
till then a nonbeliever, put his ear to his lips and then said to the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Prophet that he was reciting the KALIMA the Prophet had wanted of him.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
( Ibn Hisham, Cairo Edition, p 146).

[ Please do bear in mind that all the references cited in the above
para are * NOT * my adition, and * NEITHER * are the block letters my
addition, they have been rendered by Shibli Numani himself ]

Then Shibli Numani further writes

But from a traditionist's point of view this report of Al Bukhari is
not worthy taking as reliable because the last narrator is Musaiyyab
who embraced Islam after the fall of Mecca, and was not himself
present at the time of Abu Talib's death. It is on this account that
al Aini in his commentary has remarked that this tradition is MURSAL
(Al Aini, Chapter Janaiz or Funeral, VOL IV, p 200 ).

Also he writes on page 221

Abu Talib made great sacrifices for the Prophet none can deny that. He
would even sacrifice his own children for his sake. For his sake he
had exposed himself to the odium of the whole country, and for his
sake he had passed years in state of siege, suffering starvation as an
exile, unprovided with food or drink. Will all this love, sacrifice
and devotion go unrewarded ?

- asking God to forgive a deceased usually takes place at the time of the
funeral prayer. The wording of the verse ' It is not permissible to the
Prophet and the believers to ask God to forgive the pagans ' , indicates
that the Prophet was with other believers ( in a congregational prayer )
when he asked forgiveness for the pagans.

- as a matter of fact, the funeral prayer was not instituted before the
Hijrah (migration to Medina). The first prayer offered by the Messenger for
a deceased was his prayer for Al Bura Ibn Maarour.

it is likely that this verse was revealed after the Prophet offered a
funeral prayer for one of the hypocrites who used to pretend Islam and
conceal paganism. It is very likely that the verse was revealed when the
Holy Prophet ( saw ) offered a funeral prayer for Abdullah bin Obai bin
Salool who died during the ninth year and who was well noted in his
hypocrisy, his hatred towards the Messenger of Allah and his adversary to
the faith of Islam. About him and his followers, the Chapter of Al
Munafiqoon ( the Hypoctites ) was revealed before that time. Had historians
and hadith recorders thought with some depth and logic, they would not have
commited this terrible historical error !

Here is another hadeeth from Sahih Bukhari that mentions the event similar
to the previous hadeeth

Narrated Al Musaiyab : When Abu Talib was on his death bed, Allah's
Apostle same to him and found Abi Umaiya bin Al Mughira. Allah's
Apostle said : ' O uncle ! say : None has the right to be worshipped
except Allah, a sentence with which I will defend you before Allah. '
On that Abu Jahl and Abdullah bin Abi Umaiya said to Abu Talib : '
Will now you leave the religion of Abdul Mutallaib ? ' Allah's apostle
kept on inviting him to say that senetnce while the other two kept on
repeating their sentence before him till Abu Talib said as a last
thing then he said to them , ' I am on the religion of Abdul Muttalib
' and refused to say : None has the righ to be worshipped except
Allah. On that Allah's Apostle said : ' By Allah I will keep on asking
Allah's forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden ( by Allah ) to do
so. So Allah revealed

It is not fitting for the Prophet and those who believe that they
should invoke ( Allah ) for forgiveness for pagans ( 9 : 113 )

And then Allah revealed especially about Abu Talib :

Verily ! You ( O, Muhammad ) guide not whom you like, but Allah
guides whom He will (28:56)

Sahih Bukhari Kitabul Tafseer
Arabic English
Volume 6 page 278 -> 279
Tradition no. 295

Readers will be surprised to know that the two hadeeths cited above, prove
that the two verses descended one after the other. But this is contrary to
another hadeeth that Bukhari cites in his Sahih, and it proves that Surah
Baarat was among the last revealed chapters. Here is the hadith

Narrated Al Bara : The last Sura that was revealed was Bara'a ...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sahih Bukhari Kitabul Tafseer
Arabic English
Volume 6
Page 101 Tradition 129

Other Sunni references that affirm to the fact that Sura Baarat was among
the last revealed chapters and a Medanite Sura, please refer to

- Tafseer Kashshaf, v 2 p 49
- Tafseer Qurtubi, v 8 p 273
- Tafseer Itqan, v 1 p 18
- Tafseer Showkani, v 3 p 316

But where is the fault in the Hadeeths? The verse cited from Surah Qasas,
was revealed at least ten (10) years before Surah Baarat, and that it was
revealed in Mecca, where as Surah Baarat was revealed in Medina. Please
think about it, and you shall find out that in a futile effort to discredit
Abu Talib and declare him as an unbeliever, the order of the revelation of
the Quran was not taken into consideration. Just imagine the time gap in
between the revelation of the two chapters, and the matter will be very
clear.

Also history tells us that Al Musaiyab

- disliked Imam Ali
- refused to say the funeral prayers for the grandson of Imam Ali,
and the son of Imam Hussain, Imam Zainul Abidin

Sunni Reference

- Sharah of Ibn al Hadid, v 1 p 370

One could conclude that this fabrication was done to simply elevate Umayad
over Hashimites.

Also I came across a very ashtonishing commentary, by the most reverred
Sunni commentator, Fakr ar Din Al Razi in his Tafseer, with reference to
Surah Qasas (28:56). He has mentioned this verse about Abu Talib, * not *
because of his personal opinion; because of the opinion of some other
scholars '. Surprisingly, he admits, that this verse could not be
associated with Abu Talib's beliefs ...

Reference: Tafseer Kabir, v 25 p 3 ( Fakhr ar Din al Razi )
 


Quran and the unbelievers
-------------------------

It is not ( fit ) for the Prophet and those who believe that
they should ask forgiveness for the polytheists, even though
they should be near relatives, after it has become clear to
them that they are inmates of the flaiming fire. [ 9 : 113 ]

Now since we have already proved that the above verse was not revealed for
Abu Talib, where the Prophet and the Muslims have been advised not to pray
for the polytheists, it would help us to look at those verses that asked
the Prophet and the Believers not to eshtablish relations for the
polytheists, let alone pray for them, out of love and respect !


Surah 58 - The Pleading One (Mujadilah) - Verse 22
--------------------------------------------------

You shall not find a people who believe in Allah and the latter
day befriending those who act in opposition to Allah and His
Apostle, even though they were their own fathers, or their sons,
or their brothers, or their kinsfolk; these are they into whose
hearts He has impressed faith, and whom He has strengthened with
an inspiration from Him: and He will cause them to enter gardens
beneath which rivers flow, abiding therein; Allah is well
pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him; these are
Allah's party: Surely the party of Allah are the successful ones.

This was revealed in the Battle of Badr and this event occured in the 2
year of the Hijra. However there are some commentators that relate its
revelation with The Battle of the Uhud, that occured in the 3 year of the
Hijra. How ever, the verse advises us not to make friends with the non
believers or even love them. This Chapter was revealed well before Surah
Baarat ( Chapter 9, for the verse cited in the beginning )

Sunni references

- Tafseer Ibn Katheer, v 4 p 329
- Tafseer Sho Kafi, v 5 p 189
- Tafseer Aloosi, v 28 p 37


Surah IV - Women (Surah Al Nisa)- Verses 139 and 144
----------------------------------------------------

Those who take the unbelievers for guardians rather than believers.
Do they seek honor for them ? Then surely all honor is for Allah.

O you who believe ! do not take the unbelievers as protectors
instead of than believers; do you desire that you should give to
Allah a manifest proof against yourselves ?


This is a Mecci Surah, where the above verses advise the believers not to
take unbelievers as helpers or protectors. How could the Prophet get help
from an unbeliever if we assume Abu Talib is unbeliever?! Ofcourse, this
verse was revealed well before Chapter 9, that has been the focus our
attention!

Sunni reference :

- Tafseer Qurtubi, v 5 p 1


Surah III - The Family Of Imran (Surah Ale Imran) - Verse 28
------------------------------------------------------------

Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather
than the believers; and whoever does this, he shall have
nothing of ( the guardianship ) Allah, but you should guard
yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you
cautious of ( retribition from ) Himself; and to Allah is the
eventual journey.


According to reference ( 1 ) the first eighty ( 80 ) verses of this Chapter
were revealed during the beginning of the Hijra. The latter references
indicate that the above verse ( verse 28 ) was revealed during the Battle
of Ihzab ( 5 Hijra ). The last reference indicates that Surah Ale Imran and
Surah Baarat were revealed with a difference of four Surahs.

Sunni references

- Seera of Ibn Hisham, v 2 p 207
- Tafseer Qurtubi, v 4 p 58
- Tafseer Khazan, v 1 p 235
- Tafseer Itqan, v 1 p 17


Surah IX - Repentance - Verses 23 and 80 ( Surah Baarat )
---------------------------------------------------------

O you who believe ! do not take your fathers and your brothers
for guardians if they love unbelief more than belief; and who
ever of you takes them for a guardian, these it is that are the
unjust.

Ask forgiveness for them or do not ask forgiveness for them;
even if you ask forgiveness for them seventy times, Allah will
not forgive them; this is because they disbelieve in Allah and
the Apostle, and Allah does not guide the transgressing people.

These two verses were revealed before Verse 9:113 (the verse used against
Abu Talib), and as I conclude this discussion, let me pose a question to
these accusers:

- Is it possible that the Prophet ( saw ) would ask for forgiveness
for Abu Talib ( May Allah bless his soul ), especially when these two
verses declare that it is futile to do so, assuming that Abu Talib
died as an unbeliever? If your answer is yes, then isn't it against
the text of the Holy Book and the Will of Allah, the Almighty?!!

- The fact is that the verse 9:113 is just a command to Prophets in
general, and not apprehension for what Prophet Muhammad did not! This
will become clear when one looks at the next verse that (i.e., 9:114)
which shows this is the command of Allah to Prophet Abraham who prayed
for his uncle Azar (not to be confused with his father whose name was
Tarokh. This needs a separate discussion) before it was known to him
that he is the enemy of Allah. Quran states:

.. But when it became clear to him that he (Azar) was an enemy to
Allah he dissociated himself from him; for Abraham was most tender-
hearted forbearing. [9:114]

 

 

certainly what has been said about this topic in the last parts, must have
left some questions unanswered, and this article would focus on the
attitude adopted by Abu Talib ( May Allah bless his soul ) towards his
nephew, the Prophet Muhammad ( Peace be upon him and his cleansed progeny
), and his contribution towards spreading Islam, and the declaration of his
faith in several occasions reported by the Sunnis.

The readers of Islamic History know how the Quraish clans delivered to Abu
Talib an ultimatum, to stop his nephew from defaming their fathers and
belittling their gods and ridiculing their minds; otherwise, they would
confront him and the Prophet (PBUH&HF) on a battlefield untill one of the
two parties perished. Abu Talib had no doubt that his acceptance of the
Qurai[Edited Out]e challenge meant his death and total annihilation of his clan;
yet he did not pressure his nephew to stop his campaign. He only informed
him of the Qura[Edited Out]e ultimatum, and he told him kindly

Save me and yourself, my nephew, and burden me not with what I cannot
bear.

When the messenger rejected the ultimatum, declaring to his uncle that he
would not exchange his message with the possesion of the whole universe,
Abu Talib immediately reversed his attitude and decided to go along with
the Messenger to the end. This is evident from the statement he made to the
prophet (PBUH&HF)

Come back, my nephew, go on, say what ever you like. I shall never
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
let you down at any time.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sunni references

- Ibn Husham, Biography of the Prophet, v 1 p 266
- Tabaqat of Ibn Sa'ad, v 1 p 186
- History of Tabari, v 2 p 218
- Deewan e Abu Talib, p 24
- Sharah of Ibn al Hadid, v 3 p 306
- History of Ibn Katheer, v 2 p 258
- History of Abul Fida, v 1 p 117
- Al Seerah al Halabiyyah, v 1 p 306


Abu Talib fulfilled this huge promise with distinction. When a Meccan threw
some dirt on the Messenger while he was prostrating, Abu Talib went on
brandishing his sword and holding the hand of his nephew untill he came to
the sacred mosque. A group of the enemies were sitting there, and when some
of them tried to stand for Abu Talib, he said to them

By the One in whom Muhammad (PBUH&HF) believes, if any one from you
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^
stands up I will hit him with my sword.

See few lines later below for the Sunni references.

When a person wants to swear, he swears by something that has sanctity for
him, and not something that he does not believe in it. The above
diplomatic/political statement proves for those who have intelligience that
he believed in the God of Muhammad (PBUH&HF), The One, The Great.

Then Abu Talib asked the Prophet (PBUH&HF) who was the person responsible
for the shameful act, and upon his ( Prophet's ) answer, Hamza as
instructed by Abu Talib smeared the dust on the individuals who showed
animosity towards the Prophet (PBUH&HF). It was on this occasion that Abu
Talib said :

I believe that Mohammed's faith is the best of all the religions
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
of the Universe.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sunni references
- Khazanatal Adaab by Khateeb Baghdadi, v 1 p 261
- Tareekh of Ibn Katheer, v 3 p 42
- Sharh of Ibn al Hadid, v 3 p 306
- History of Abul Fida, v 1 p 120
- Fath al Bari ( Sharah of Sahih Bukhari ), v 7 p 153
- Al Isaba, v 4 p 116
- Al Seerah Al Halebiyyah, v 1 p 305
- Talba tul Talib, p 5


The above highlighted part is another obvious statement which proves his
Islam.

The Quraish could see that despite their obstructive efforts the progress
of Islam had continued. They now decided to put an end to the Prophet and
his family in a state of siege and excommunication till they were all done
away with. With this end in view a pact was drawn, to which each tribe was
a party and it was to the effect that none should have marital ties with
Banu Hashim or do any buying or selling with them; and none was to
associate with them or allow any provision to them. This was to continue
till the Prophet's family handed him over for execution. This pact was then
hung on the door of the Kaaba. Thus forced Abu Talib with the whole family
moved to a mountain cave known as ' Shi'b Abi Talib '. Now the Hashmites
were entirely alienated from the rest of the town dewelers. The fortress
was also beleagured at times by the Quraish to enforce the ban in all its
rigour, and to prevent the possibility of supplies. They found themselves
sometimes reduced to starvation for want of supplies. Under constant
surveillance by the Quraish, Abu Talib even feared night attacks and for
this reason he was on guard for the safety of Muhammad (PBUH&HF), and often
chaged room as a precaution aganist sudden violence.

At the close of the third year of the Interdict, Mohammad (PBUH&HF) told
his uncle Abu Talib, that Allah had shown His disapproval of the convention
against him, and had sent out worms to eat every word of the document
placed in the Kaaba, except His own name written thereon.

Abu Talib believing his nephew (PBUH&HF) as the receiver of the revelations
from heavens, unhesitantly went to the Quraish and told them what Muhammad
(PBUH&HF) had spoken. The discussion is recorded as follows

Muhammad has informed us and I ask you to confirm it for yourselves.
For if it is true then I ask you to rethink, instead of troubling
Muhammad or putting our patience to the test. Believe us, we would
prefer to lay down our lives; rather hand over Muhammad to you. And if
Muhammad proves to be wrong in his words, then we would hand over
Muhammad to you unconditionally. Then you have the liberty of treating
him any way you like; kill him or keep him alive.

To these proposals of Abu Talib, the Quraish agreed upon to inspect the
document, and to their ashtonishment they found it worm eaten; only the
name of Allah was still there and no more, and they said that it was an
enchantment of Muhammad (PBUH&HF). Abu Talib enraged upon the Quraish and
demanded that the document be declared void and the ban be removed. Then he
clutched to one end of the cloth of the Kaaba, as he raised the second hand
in the air and prayed

O Lord ! Help us against those, who have subjugated us to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
torture ...
^^^^^^^^^^^

Sunni references :

- Tabaqat of Ibne Sa'ad, v 1 p 183
- Seerah of Ibn Hisham, v 1 p 399 and p 404
- Aiwanul Ikbar by Qutaiybah, v 2 p 151
- Tareekhe Yaqoobi, v 2 p 22
- Al Istiab, v 2 p 57
- Khazantul Ihbab by Khateeb Baghdadi, v 1 p 252
- History of Ibn Katheer, v 3 p 84
- Al Khasais al Kubra, v 1 p 151
- Al Seerah Al Halebiyyah, v 1 p 286


Once during the childhood of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) on the occasion of a
scarcity of rains Abu Talib took him (PBUH&HF) to the Holy Kaaba and
standing with his back touching the wall of the sanctuary lifted up the
Prophet (PBUH&HF) in his lap and sought medium in his prayers to the
Almighty for the rains. The Prophet (PBUH&HF) also joined him in his
prayers with his face upturned. The prayers were not finished when the
clouds began to appear and the rain fell in torrents. This incident is
alluded in the following verses composed by Abu Talib:


Don't you see that we have found Mohammed a prophet like Moses;
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
he is already predicted in the previous Scriptures.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

He is the illumined face which is the medium for the rains; he is
the spring for the orphan and a protector for the widow.


Sunni references

- Sharah of Bukhari by Qastalani, v 2 p 227
- Al Seerah Al Halebeyah, v 1 p 125


Another verse that testify's to the belief of Abu Talib is as follows


To exalt him He derived his name from His own; the One on
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
High is called Mahmud while He named him Mohammed
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There is no doubt that Allah appointed Muhammed as a prophet,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
therefore Ahmed is the most exalted personality in the entire
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Universe.
^^^^^^^^^


Sunni references

- Dalail al-Nubuwwah, by Abu Nu'aym, v 1 p 6
- History of Ibn Asakeer, v 1 p 275
- Sharah of Ibn al Hadid, v 3 p 315
- History of Ibn Katheer, v 1 p 266
- Tareekhe Khamees, v 1 p 254


Abu Talib was a man of great faith and had strong belief in the
truthfulness of Mohammed (PBUH&HF). He lived with that mission for about
eleven years, and the difficulties for Muhammad and him increased in size
by the passage of time. This was especially noticeable after his death,
since the Quraish subjected him to more sufferings; sufferings that were
not imaginable during the life time of Abu Talib. Ibn Abbas narrates a
tradition that when a person from the Quraish put dirt on his head, he went
home. It was on this occasion that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) remarked :

... The Quraish never met me with such treatment during the life time
of Abu Talib, since they were cowards ...


Sunni references

- History of Tabari, v 2 p 229
- History of Ibn Asakeer, v 1 p 284
- Mustadrak of Al Hakim, v 2 p 622
- History of Ibn Katheer, v 3 p 122
- Al Faiq by Al Zamakshari, v 2 p 213
- Tareekhe Khamees, v 1 p 253
- Al Serah Al Halebiyyah, v 1 p 375
- Fathul Bari, v 7 p 153 and p 154
- Seerah of Ibn Husham, v 2 p 58


The Marriage Ceremony of the Prophet (PBUH&HF)
----------------------------------------------

Abu Talib addresses the men of Quraysh, who were present at the marriage
ceremony as follows:

Praise be to Allah Who made us from the seed of Abraham and progeny of
Ishmael. He granted as a Sacred house and a place of pilgrimage. He
made us to dwell in a secure sanctuary (haram), to which the fruits of
everything are brought. He made us, moreover, arbiters in men's
affairs, and blessed for us this land in which we dwell.

Then he said:

Were Muhammad (PBUH&HF), the son of my brother 'Abdullah son of Abdul
Muttalib ', to be weighed any man among the Arabs, he would excel him.
Nor would any man be comparable to him. He is peerless among men, even
though he is a man of little welath. Yet riches are only transient
possesions, and an epheramel security. He has expressed a desire for
Khadijah, and she likewise has shown interest in him. As for any bride
gift (mahr) you demand, both the part to be presented now and the one
presented at a later date - it will be of my own wealth.

Sunni reference:
- Seerah al-Halabiyyah, vol 1 p 139


Abu Talib's (May Allah bless his soul) last breath
--------------------------------------------------

In spite of his concealing his faith, Abu Talib, on more than one occasion
made his belief in Islam clearly known (as already mentioned above) long
before his death. But it would be interesting to quote his saying at his
deathbed.

While on his death bed, Abu Talib said to the Hashimites :

I command you to be good to Mohammed. He is the most trustworty
of the Quraish and the ever truthful of the Arabs. He brought a
^^^^^^^^^^^^
message which is accepted by the heart and denied by the tongue
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
for fear of hostility. By God whoever walks in the way of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mohammed shall be on the right road and whoever follows his
guidance shall have the happy future.

And you Hashimites, respond to Muhammaed's invitation and believe
him. You will succeed and be well guided; certainly he is the
guide to the right path.

Sunni references

- Al Muhabil Dunya, v 1 p 72
- Tareekhe Khamees, v 1 p 339
- Balughul Adaab, v 1 p 327
- Al Seerah Al Halebeyah, v 1 p 375
- Sunni al Mutalib, p 5
- Uruzul Anaf, v 1 p 259
- Tabaqat of Ibn Sa'ad, v 1 p 123


It is reported in the book of al-Bayhaqi (Dalail al-Nubuwwah) that when Abu
Talib was at the point of death, he was seen moving his lips. al Abbas (the
Prophet's uncle) bent down to listen to what he was saying. he then lifted
his head and said:

By Allah, he has uttered the word which you requested,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
O Messenger of Allah!.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sunni references:
- Dalail al-Nubuwwah by al-Bayhaqi, vol 2 p 101
- Ibn Hisham, Cairo Edition, p146 as quoted in Siratun Nabi, by Shibli
Numani, v1, pp 219-220

Also in the same book, it is related that the Prophet (saw) stood at the
funeral of Abu Talib and said:

You have indeed acted kindly to your next of kin;
may you be well rewarded, O uncle.

Sunni references:
- Dalail al-Nubuwwah by al-Bayhaqi, vol 2 p 101
- Ibid, vol 2 p 103
- History of Khateeb Baghdadi, vol 13 p 196
- History of Ibn Katheer, vol 3 p 125
- al Isaba, vol 4 p 116
- Tadhkirat Sibt, p 2
- History of Yaquubi, vol 2 p26


Some Shi'ite references on Abu Talib
------------------------------------

Abu Abdillah, Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (AS) said:

The case of Abu Talib was like that of the people
of the Cave [Quran 18:9-26]; they concealed their
faith and disclosed shirk. Yet Allah bestowed upon
them double reward.

Shia Reference:

- al Kulayni in al Kafi, vol 1 p 448
- al Amini, al Ghadir, vol 7 p 330


In another tradition, Imam Jafer al-Sadiq (AS) said:

While Imam Ali (AS) was sitting with Ruhbah in Kufa, surrounded
by a group, a man stood up and said : ' Commander of the Believers,
you are in this great position at which God has placed you while
your father is suffering in hell. ' The Imam replied, saying : Be
silent. May God disfigure your mouth. By the One Who sent
Mohammed (PBUH&HF) with the truth, if my father intercedes for
every sinner on the face of the earth, God would accept his
intercession.

Shia reference: al-Ihtijaj, by al-Tabarsi, v1, p341



Now, I would like to end this discussion with the following thoughtful
questions:

- Why is it that we accuse Abu Talib of paganism, when he
chose to believe in the Prophet's (PBUH&HF) message and declared
it by political statements and sometimes by frank declarations?
- What benefit does it have for us to daclare him Kafir when
there are strong proofs to the contrary? Do we get any other
benefit except to make ourselves Kafir by pronouncing one of the
early Muslim as Kafir?
- Why do we accuse him of paganism when he defended the
Prophet (PBUH&HF) by all of what he had of men and
means? Why do we attribute paganism to such a personality
who was so benevolent to all the Muslims by guarding the
life of the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) for 11 years ?
- Why do we attribute paganism to the man who read the Nikah
for the Prophet (PBUH&HF) ? How can your mind comprehend
the notion of a pagan/disbeliever carrying out the ceremony
of the marriage for a Prophet?
- Isn't this ungratefulness in the worst form ?
- Isn't this the worst insult in reward of the great favor that
he did for the Prophet (PBUH&HF) ?


Indeed his presence in relation to the continuity of Islam was NOT
incidental and we Muslims all owe him! May Allah grant us his intersession.

End of Part 4 of 4
***************************************************************************
===============================
Some Side Comments on Abu Talib
===============================
I brother mentioned

I had a carefull examination of what you wrote but one thing is not
clear wheather Abu Talib did ever uttered 'my god'. So far you
informed there is that Abu Talib several times uttered ' Mohammed's
god' and seemed he had faith in that god but he could never say 'my
god'. That obviously reveals that he never explicitly uttered Islamic
belief although it seems that he believed it.


Here I present two references that testify to the fact that
Abu Talib uttered the credo of Islam before his death. I am
sure that I cited this reference in Part # 2 of my article ( s ),
perhaps you missed it ...


Ibn Ishaq says that while dying Abu Talib's lips were in motion. Abbas
who was an unbeliever till then put his ear to the lips and then said
to the Prophet that he was reciting the KALIMA the Prophet had wanted
of him.

- Ibn Hisham, Cairo Edition, p 146 ( as quoted by Shibli Numani )

A similar tradition is as follows ...


Abu Talib moved his lips as he was about to die. Abbas then
heard what he uttered, and he said to the Prophet that Abu Talib
had uttered the KALIMA that was required by you.

- Tarike Abul Fida, V 1 p 120

Thus his Shahadah before his death is established by the Sunni historians.
However my argument was that he UTTERED shahadah from the very begining of
Islam, but NOT in public. So it is natural that no explicit proof for that
could be found in the history, for history is written based on the public
news (and not private ones!). However, there are implicit proofs in the
history which could lead even Sunnis to believe that he was a Muslim long
before his death. One could be what you refered to. He said to the
unbelievers that "I swear by the God of Muhammad!". Does history have
another example where an unbeliever swears by the name of God who does not
believe? When one wants to seawr, he/she swears by something that is
eminent for him/her. Otherwise he/she does not make his statement any more
credible for others. Let me give you an example. If a man goes to court
here in USA, if he is Christian he will have to swear by Bible. But if he
declares to be non-Christian, then he will have to swear by his holy book
(or any imortant thing otherwise) and not the bible because his swear by
bible does not make the court convinced because he performed the oath.

Please think about it. Quraish have had many important Gods at that time
(like Hubal and Uzza). Why should Abu Talib leave all of them beside and
swears by the God that he does not believe in?!

The Sunni brother further commented:

Is it possible for some one to be a Muslim without explicitly
pronouncing this belief ? True, he was a monothiest and not a Mushrik.
But All monotheists are not Muslim. Your kind opinion please ....

Islam is the state of submission in ones heart. A Hypocite, though declares
that he is Muslim, is indeed non-Muslim. For this very reason, it is
difficult to judge if one is Muslim or not. However you are right. One has
to utter Shahadah to become Muslim, but he does NOT have to do it in public
if he fears of prosecution or if he finds out that by concealing his belief
he can serve better to his nobel thoughts. This is called Taqiyyah. So one
can Utter his Shahadah privately (for instance when he is alone or when he
is with the Prophet (PBUH&HF) alone) and he will be Muslim.

In fact Taqiyyah and hypocracy are two opposite extremes. I have a file on
that which I will send you shortly Insha Allah, which proves it from Quran
and the Hadith prespective as well as Logic.
 

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. .

 

Oh my God, your personal style SO reminds me of Sean Jobst.

[ I mean  CUT  AND  PASTE  ad infinitum of hugh stores of on cyber "knowlege," "wisdom," "intimate familiarity with finest details" of materials of which the man knew very little in person]

Who is Sean Jobst? Secondly I assure you nothing in any post of mine so far on this forum has been cut and paste.

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Abu Talib was a Kafir and Mushrik but he was a good man and beloved uncle of the Prophet (pbuh). Sunnis respect him as a man with good character. If Abu Talib was Muslim then why did Allah reaveal the verse 'It is not fitting for Prophet and the believers to pray for mushriks.' when Abu Talib was in deadbed and prophet wanted to pray for his uncle? He is the only mushrik who will be given least punishment in hell.

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Abu Talib was a Kafir and Mushrik but he was a good man and beloved uncle of the Prophet (pbuh). Sunnis respect him as a man with good character. If Abu Talib was Muslim then why did Allah reaveal the verse 'It is not fitting for Prophet and the believers to pray for mushriks.' when Abu Talib was in deadbed and prophet wanted to pray for his uncle? He is the only mushrik who will be given least punishment in hell.

 

 

Abu talib (as) was a mushrik?

 

So you're telling me that the person who raised the Prophet (as) since he was a toddler and protected him from the kuffar was a kafir and mushrik himself all along?

 

The father of imam ali ibn abi talib (as)?

 

The man who read the marriage for the Prophet (as) ?

 

 

You speak but you do so without evidence, give us proof from the Qur'an or ahadith accepted by both madhabs if you speak the truth.

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Abu talib (as) was a mushrik?

 

So you're telling me that the person who raised the Prophet (as) since he was a toddler and protected him from the kuffar was a kafir and mushrik himself all along?

 

Yup! and the bigger mushrik "Abu Sufyan" who fought against the Prophet (saww) and declared his Kufr openly died as a Sahaba! Welcome to the crazy Sahaba world of Ahlesunnah.....

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Abu Talib was a Kafir and Mushrik but he was a good man and beloved uncle of the Prophet (pbuh). Sunnis respect him as a man with good character. If Abu Talib was Muslim then why did Allah reaveal the verse 'It is not fitting for Prophet and the believers to pray for mushriks.' when Abu Talib was in deadbed and prophet wanted to pray for his uncle? He is the only mushrik who will be given least punishment in hell.

(salam)

The man who raised and protected the Prophet (s.w.s) going to hell is absurd as is formulating your own opinion on who will have an amended punishment in hell. Moreover there is nothing to suggest your second narration is regarding Abu Talib (a.s).

As it happens Abu Hurairah is responsible for the narration in question and we reject his narrations due to his falsifications and untrustworthiness. The last time I checked not uttering the shahada in public did not make someone a mushrik and to wrongly accuse anyone of being mushrik is dire let alone someone of such a high standing.

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Abu Talib was a Kafir and Mushrik but he was a good man and beloved uncle of the Prophet (pbuh). Sunnis respect him as a man with good character. If Abu Talib was Muslim then why did Allah reaveal the verse 'It is not fitting for Prophet and the believers to pray for mushriks.' when Abu Talib was in deadbed and prophet wanted to pray for his uncle? He is the only mushrik who will be given least punishment in hell.

Allah said  'It is not fitting for Prophet and the believers to pray for mushriks.'  and how the heck do you know that Abu Talib (as) was a mushrik? You sunni, you are just spreading hate. Shame on you. If Abu Talib (as) was a kafir why then did he helped our Prophet Muhammad (saws). And Prophet Muhammad (saws) would surely know if he is a bad man or a good man. And How comes a son of a kafir gets married to Fatima (as)? You sunni can just spread lies, but no good evidence and explanation. Shame on you. 

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Allah said  'It is not fitting for Prophet and the believers to pray for mushriks.'  and how the heck do you know that Abu Talib  (as) was a mushrik? You sunni, you are just spreading hate. Shame on you. If Abu Talib  (as) was a kafir why then did he helped our Prophet Muhammad (saws). And Prophet Muhammad (saws) would surely know if he is a bad man or a good man. And How comes a son of a kafir gets married to Fatima  (as)? You sunni can just spread lies, but no good evidence and explanation. Shame on you.

 

 

The highlighted portion, didnt our sunni brothers use it against us to support their sahaba icons? Interesting, you call a Sahaba a Kafir, when we do that, a fierce condemnation follows. Welcome to the world of a thousand companions and the followers of Sunnah.

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Abu Talib was a Kafir and Mushrik but he was a good man and beloved uncle of the Prophet (pbuh). Sunnis respect him as a man with good character. If Abu Talib was Muslim then why did Allah reaveal the verse 'It is not fitting for Prophet and the believers to pray for mushriks.' when Abu Talib was in deadbed and prophet wanted to pray for his uncle? He is the only mushrik who will be given least punishment in hell.

 

Didn't you read what brother 'TheIslamHistory' posted above before blowing the trumpet on something which you are totally ignorant of? Here it is again:

 

Now coming to the hadith by itself, let see what the most authenticated

book in the eyes of the Sunnis has to say.

al-Bukhari in his Sahih writes

Narrated Al Musaiyab : When Abu Talibs death approached, the

Prophet ( saw ) went to him while Abu Jahl and Abdullah bin

Abi Umaiya were present with him. The Prophet ( saw ) said : ' O

Uncle, say : None has the right to be worshipped except Allah,

so that I may argue for your case with it before Allah. ' On

that Abu Jahl and Abdullah bin Abi Umaiya said : ' O Abu Talib !

Do you want to renounce Abdul Muttalib's religion ? ' Then the

Prophet ( saw ) said, ' I will keep on asking ( Allah for )

forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden to do so. ' Then there

was revealed

It is not fitting for the Prophet and those who believe that

they should pray for forgiveness for pagans even though they

be of kin, after it has become clear to them that they are

the companions of the fire. [ 9 : 113 ]

Sahih Bukhari Kitabul Tafseer

Arabic English

Volume 6

Page 158 Tradition no. 197

The above mentioned verse is a part of the Chapter of Baraat ( number 9 ).

A few points on this Chapter

- this is a totally medinite Chapter, with the exception of the

last two verses ( 128 and 129 )

- the verse which is the subject of our discussion is Verse 113

- the Chapter of Baarat was revealed during the ninth ( 9th ) year

of Hijra. The chapter speaks of the events that took place during

the campaign of Tabuk, which was during the month of Rajab in the

ninth Year. The Prophet ( saw ) had ordered Abu Bakr to announce

first part of it during the days of the pilgrimage of that year

when he sent him as an ' Amir Al Hajj '. Then he sent Imam Ali

to take that part from him and announce it, because God commanded

him that no one should deliver the revelation other than himself

or a man from the members of his House. The chapter speaks of the

events that took place during the campaign of Tabouk, which was

during the month of Rajab in the ninth Year.

Many Sunni traditionist reported that:

The Messenger of Allah sendAbu Bakr to the people of Mecca with the

Chapter of al-Bara'ah and when he proceeded, (the Prophet) sent for

him and asked him to return the chapter and said: "No one takes it to

them except one of my Ahlul-Bayt." and thus he sent Ali for this

mission."

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v2, p183, v5, pp 275,283

- Musnad of Ahmed Hanbal, v1 pp 3,151, v3, pp 212,283

- Fadha'l al-Sahabah, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, p562, Tradition #946

- Hakim in his Mustadrak, v 3 p 51

- Al Nisai in his Khasais al Awliyah, p 20

- Fadhail al Khamsah, v 2 p 343

- Siratun Nabi by Shibli Numani, v 2 p 239

Ahmad in his musnad added that Abu Bakr said : The Prophet ( saw ) had sent

me with the chapter of Baarat to the people of Mecca

No pagan should make pilgrimage after this year. No naked shall

circumnavigate around the Ancient House. No one shall enter paradise

except a Muslim soul. Any pagan community that has been between them

and the Messenger of God a peace accord, the accord will end by the

end by the end of the specified period ( without extension ), and God

and His Messenger are clear of pagans

Also Shibli Numani in his work on the Seera of the Prophet ( saw ) writes

as follows ( p 239 -- > p 240 )

Now in the year 9th Hijri, the Kaaba was for the first time,

consecrated as the central House of Worship for the followers of

Abraham ...... On return from Tabuk the Holy Prophet ( saw ) sent out

a caravan of three hundred muslims from Mecca to Medina to perfrom the

Hajj at Mecca.

Now coming back to the verse of [ 9 : 113 ], the verse could not mean Abu

Talib, because he died in Mecca at least two years before the Hijrah !

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Shia Aqeeda is that Hadhrat Au Talib and his father Hadhrat Abdul Mutalib were from Awsiya (Wasi) of Hadhrat Ibrahim and inheritor of Scrolls of Ibrahim (Suhuf Ibrahim) and custodians of House of God. In his sermon in Holy Prophet's marriage to Hadhrat Khadija, Abu Talib declared that the Bani Hashim were the heirs of Ibrahim and Ismael, and were the carriers of their heritage. They were, therefore, uncontaminated by idolatry.

 

"All glory and all praise to Allah, the Creator of Heavens and earth, and all thanks to Him for all His blessings, bounties and mercy. He sent us into this world in the posterity of Ibrahim and Ismael. He put us in charge of the Mosque and made us guardians of His House, the Kaaba, which is a sanctuary for all His creatures."

 

What kind of Kaffir praises Allah and declares that we are progeny of Ibrahim and Ismail?

 

Abu Talib knew His nephew was the Last Prophet from scrolls of Ibrahim (Suhuf Ibrahim) which reached him through his fathers. He also saw the Stamp (Mohr) of Nubuwwat on Holy Prophet's back when he was born, thus he was paying extra attention to his nephew and supported him with his wealth and life. The rest of his sermon proves that He knew his nephew was Best of Allah's Creation;

 

"My nephew, Muhammed ibn Abdullah ibn Abdul Muttalib, is the best individual in all mankind in his intelligence, in wisdom, in purity of lineage, in purity of his personal life, and in distinction of family. He has all the markings of a man destined to be great. He is marrying Khadija the daughter of Khuwayled against a meher of four hundred pieces of gold. I declare Muhammed and Khadija husband and wife. May Allah bless them both, and may He be their Protector.

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The highlighted portion, didnt our sunni brothers use it against us to support their sahaba icons? Interesting, you call a Sahaba a Kafir, when we do that, a fierce condemnation follows. Welcome to the world of a thousand companions and the followers of Sunnah.

Confuses me. I said something wrong? I apologize.

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It is ironic that some Muslim dare to say that Abu Talib was a Kafir, and yet they consider individuals like Abu Sufian and Muawiyah as Muslims (at the end of his life).

 

Do they not understand what Abu Talib gave to Islam ? My question to these people is: what good did Abu Sufian and Muawiyah's claim bring to the Ummah ?

 

What a shame...

 

When the Muslims were boycotted in Mecca, they all took refuge at the Shaib of Abu Talib...Thereafter:

 

Anyone inside the Shaib of Abu Talib was Muslim......Everybody outside was Kafir!!

 

Anyone inside the Shaib of Abu Talib was Muslim......Everybody outside was Kafir!!

 

Anyone inside the Shaib of Abu Talib was Muslim......Everybody outside was Kafir!!

 

Anyone inside the Shaib of Abu Talib was Muslim......Everybody outside was Kafir!!

 

Subhanallah....

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It is ironic that some Muslim dare to say that Abu Talib was a Kafir, and yet they consider individuals like Abu Sufian and Muawiyah as Muslims (at the end of his life).

 

Do they not understand what Abu Talib gave to Islam ? My question to these people is: what good did Abu Sufian and Muawiyah's claim bring to the Ummah ?

 

What a shame...

 

When the Muslims were boycotted in Mecca, they all took refuge at the Shaib of Abu Talib...Thereafter:

 

Anyone inside the Shaib of Abu Talib was Muslim......Everybody outside was Kafir!!

 

Anyone inside the Shaib of Abu Talib was Muslim......Everybody outside was Kafir!!

 

Anyone inside the Shaib of Abu Talib was Muslim......Everybody outside was Kafir!!

 

Anyone inside the Shaib of Abu Talib was Muslim......Everybody outside was Kafir!!

 

Subhanallah....

Agreed. What an Irony 

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