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Imam Reza A.s Explains The Sahabah

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Some asked him about the meaning of this tradition: "My companions are like the stars: If you follow any of them, you shall receive guidance," and another one saying, "Leave my companions to me." Both of these traditions are considered by Sunnis as the foundation of their generalization of their judgement regarding all companions of the Prophet (S.A.W.), thus justifying even their acts which contradicted Islamic justice, calling what they could not justify as "an error in ijtihad." But the Imam (A.S.) provides us with the actual explanation of these and other such ahadith with honesty and integrity, outlining in an easy manner their exact meaning. In his answer regarding the first tradition, he said, "Yes; he did say this hadith, meaning thereby the companions who did not make any alteration after him or any change." He was asked, "How can you tell that they altered and changed?" He said, "This is due to what is reported about him (S.A.W.) that he said, `Certain individuals among my companions will be forcibly pushed away from my Pool (of Kawthar) on the Day of Judgement just as strange camels are pushed away from the watering place, and I shall cry, `O Lord! My companions! My companions!' and it shall be said to me, `You do not know what innovations they invented after you,' so they will be pushed away towards the left side (where Hell is), and I shall say, `Away with them; ruined they shall be.'" The Imam continued to say, "Such will be the penalty of those who alter and change (hadith)."

This hadith is narrated, with a minor variation in its wording, by al-Bukhari who quotes Abdullah ibn Mas'ood citing the Prophet (S.A.W.) saying, "I shall be the first to reach the Pool, then the souls of some men among you will be raised and they shall be prohibited from coming near me, and I shall say, `Lord! These are my companions!' And it shall be said to me, `You do not know what they did after you...'"(Bukhari, Vol. 8, p. 119, Amiri edition). A number of huffaz and narrators of hadith reported this tradition in various wordings which maintained the same contextual meaning, proving thus that it is consecutive according to them.

The Imam (A.S.), through his frank and proven answer, saved us the effort to look for lame excuses for the flagrant transgressions in which a number of the sahaba fell, and from far-fetched arificialities to justify the errors of conduct which they deliberately committed with determination and which the same huffaz could not justify except by saying that they were cases of "mistaken ijtihad" which, according to them, did not contradict the justice expected of them, having been pressed by their attempt to attribute absolute justice to the sahabi no matter what he did...

A companion (sahabi) of the Prophet (S.A.W.) who was distinguished with the honour of being so close to the Prophet (S.A.W.) is one who is the custodian over the fruits of the Message and a protector of its structure through his faith and deeds. He is a man who ought to be taken as a model of conduct. He is a man, as the Imam (A.S.) used to say, who does not alter or change any of the statements of the Prophet (S.A.W.). As regarding those who altered and changed, these cannot be awarded a unique distinction, just because they were companions of the Prophet (S.A.W.), which raised them above other Muslims simply because they were not up to par with the level of responsibility of being honest, which is expected of them, to carry out after the demise of the Prophet (S.A.W.) and the cessation of wahi from coming to this world.

The hadith which the Imam (A.S.) narrated about Ibn Mas'ood, and which is recorded by a number of those who learned the Holy Qur'an and hadith by heart in their books is considered as an explanation of this hadith and an explanation of its connotation. Moreover, it puts the sahaba on equal footing with the others in subjecting their behaviour to criticism and discussion, and it shatters the self-immunity which was granted to them in accordance to Prophetic statements manufactured by a number of huffaz and traditionists without permitting themselves or others to discuss but take for granted.

In another hadith, the Imam (A.S.) proves to us, through a clear statement by the Prophet (S.A.W.), that some individuals who were regarded as sahaba were not actually so, which shatters all the excuses used only to justify the mistakes and transgression committed by them. For example, Muhammad ibn Ishaq al-Taliqani reported that a man in Khurasan swore by divorce that Mu'awiya was not among the true companions of the Messenger of God (S.A.W.), and this happened when Imam al-Reza (A.S.) was present there. The jurists there issued their verdict that the man had actually divorced his wife, and the Imam (A.S.) was asked to provide his own opinion in this regard. He decided that that man's wife was not divorced; therefore, those jurists wrote a statement and sent it to him. In it, they asked him, "How did you come to say, O son of the Messenger of God (S.A.W.), that the woman was not to be divorced?" He wrote down on the same sheet saying, "It is so because of what you yourselves narrate from Abu Sa'eed al-Khudri quoting the Messenger of God (S.A.W.) saying about those who accepted Islam on the day of opening Mecca, when he was surrounded by a large number of people, `You are good; my companions are good; and there shall be no migration after this Fath,' without including these (meaning Mu'awiya) among his companions." The jurists had to adopt the decision of the Imam (A.S.).

Thus did the Imam (A.S.) deny that Mu'awiya was a companion of the Prophet (S.A.W.), which claim used to surround the man with a halo of sanctity of his personality and which used to be used to justify the very serious transgressions he committed which left their terrible marks on the structure of the Islamic government since then, and to justify such transgressions by saying that he was a sahabi, and that as such whatever he did or said could not possibly cast a doubt about his justice, adding, "If we see the good aspect of his action missing, we may say that he attempted ijtihad, and he erred," even if such error was at the expense of the Prophetic Message itself...

If we accept this argument, we would be justifying all the transgressions and erroneous behaviour of some companions of the Prophet (S.A.W.) regardless of their motives or horrible consequences. The transgressions of Mu'awiya and his norms of conduct, in which he departed from the line of the Islamic Message, and which agreed with the attitude of animosity towards Islam, and whose motives and impulses were reasons to cast doubts and suspicions, nobody is really obligated to defend and describe as within the Islamic Shari'a simply because they were the result of an erroneous ijtihad wherein the mujtahid is rewarded with one reward, due to his "immunity" which does not include Mu'awiya simply because the latter was not a companion of the Prophet (S.A.W.) but was just like any other Muslim whose conduct was subject to accountability and criticism, and the verdict in his regard is based on the anticipated results of his deeds.

The directive the Imam (A.S.) intended by denying that those who accepted Islam, including Mu'awiya, were not companions of the Prophet on the day when Mecca was conquered is one of the strongest and deepest of his directives, for he drew a line between the Prophet (S.A.W.) and his true companions on one side, and those who accepted Islam after the conquest of Mecca and under the pressure of a superior power and authority on the other hand. Had it not been for their feeling of their precarious situation versus the might of their opponent, realizing that they had no choice except to make asylum and submit to the word of Islam, they would have otherwise dealt with Islam in a quite different manner...

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=5691

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I can understand your feelings about Muawiyah ibn Abu Sufyan. As we share the same faith, we have the same feelings about those who fought against our Imams, abused them and seized their right from them. Even then the Sunni Muslims dignify them but it's our examination. We must control our feelings instead of letting them overpower us.

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I can understand your feelings about Muawiyah ibn Abu Sufyan. As we share the same faith, we have the same feelings about those who fought against our Imams, abused them and seized their right from them. Even then the Sunni Muslims dignify them but it's our examination. We must control our feelings instead of letting them overpower us.

im sorry "modest" muslim, I follow my imams, what ever they say. I am not a hypocrite to enjoin good and evil. I enjoin good and forbid evil. I love those who love the imams, and i consider those who hate imams as enemies period.

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im sorry "modest" muslim, I follow my imams, what ever they say. I am not a hypocrite to enjoin good and evil. I enjoin good and forbid evil. I love those who love the imams, and i consider those who hate imams as enemies period.

Seriously, with all due respect, your just turning tashayyu' into something completely other than what the Imams [as] intended.

(wasalam)

This response is for both of you, my dear friends.

I think that you've failed to understand my simple message very badly.

First; I also follow the Imams and am their follower better than you are. I never said that we should give up their sayings. I never asked any Shia Muslim to love Caliphs Abu Bakr, Umar or Usman (God be pleased with them all). I myself just respect them because I care for Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his descendants) and Sunni Muslims. I only asked you not to do what terrorists like Yasser al Habib are doing. I just humbly request all Shia Muslims not to insult those whom Sunni Muslims respect. This is causing fitnah. It's not anti-Islamic to abstain from insulting them. We can adopt taqiyyah whenever it's necessary. Why don't we just keep silent about such controversial matters. We're living in a cruel society. We all know that nobody wants to listen evil about those whom he loves even if they were pupils of the Devil. We insult the Companions and Sunni Muslims boycott us. We insult them again and the filthy terrorists kill us. What do you want? Do you want the last true sect survived to be eradicated? Imam Khamenei has issued a wise verdict understanding the needs of the hour. It's foolishness to insult the Companions. Do whatever you want when you're home. Just don't insult them in public. For the sake of Shia-Sunni unity, it's our religious obligation to follow what our marja has commanded us to do. If you're an Akhbari Muslim then I'll make you understand my message by using some different method because this message is for Shia Muslims only.

My message and my request is in strict accordance with what Imams desired. The proofs are my logics, thoughts, verses I quoted, sunnah of the Prophet, Imam Ali's sermon (peace be upon him) I represented and the verdict of the one whom most of the Shia Muslims follow.

I'm not molding Shia Islam into something else. I am telling you the truth you don't know. This is the real Shia Islam. If you have power then try to refute me. This is the message of peace. Receive it and you'll get advantage soon. Oppose it and you'll cause problems. I again say that I'm not asking you to love the Companions. Just don't insult them openly. Don't use pulpits to insult them. Don't use mosques for that purpose. It's absurdity.

With all due respect...

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This response is for both of you, my dear friends.

I think that you've failed to understand my simple message very badly.

First; I also follow the Imams and am their follower better than you are. I never said that we should give up their sayings. I never asked any Shia Muslim to love Caliphs Abu Bakr, Umar or Usman (God be pleased with them all).

Yes, that very much clears up the confusion. Thank you.

Imam Khamenei has issued a wise verdict understanding the needs of the hour. It's foolishness to insult the Companions. Do whatever you want when you're home. Just don't insult them in public. For the sake of Shia-Sunni unity, it's our religious obligation to follow what our marja has commanded us to do. If you're an Akhbari Muslim then I'll make you understand my message by using some different method because this message is for Shia Muslims only.

Yes, please explain this to me as if I was an Akhbari (whatever that means to you). Apparently, Akhbaris need to be convinced through the ahadith of the Masumeen [as], and Usoolis ought to follow the verdicts of the marja whom they pay homage to. Am I getting that right?

(wasalam)

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First; I also follow the Imams and am their follower better than you are. I never said that we should give up their sayings. I never asked any Shia Muslim to love Caliphs Abu Bakr, Umar or Usman (God be pleased with them all).

What the flip? :donno:

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^ Wait, that's not all, Modest Muslim would also like to include 'Yazīd, Mu‘āwiya, and Abu Sufyān in that list as well. Now, it all makes sense...

(wasalam)

I do hope you are joking?

Edited by Ali Musaaa :)

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(salam) Modest Muslim

I like your peace message, but it is strange how can you support those people who hurt our Imam (as) and Bibi Fatima (as). One thing I would like to tell you clarify I don't like sending Lanat to any people (except Yazid and few ones).

"I never asked any Shia Muslim to love Caliphs Abu Bakr, Umar or Usman (God be pleased with them all)."

be honest are you Sunni who is in Taqiyya? :D nevermind. But how can you say "God be pleased with them all". So it means you also use (ra) for Muawiya, Abu Sufiyan and Abu Hurairah. Because they were Sahabi (pious ones according to Sunni Muslims) of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). What about peace with Wahabi/Salafi, who love Yazid (la) or these are only exception in your list of peace?

Your message about not sending lanat etc is good. But how can we say "God be pleased with them all" ?

We need to use Tabarra, which means we have to disassociate killers of our 14 Infallibles (as). You're telling us to associate with them.

Change your Interests to "Debates with Shia Muslims" :D just kidding. brother, trust me I like your message about peace. But it just made me :o when you say (ra). Tabarra is must, we have to disassociate with those who are enemies of Ahle-e-Bait (as).

and why did you quote this on another thread?

Imam Jafar al Sadiq said, 'Abu Bakr al Siddiq born me twice' (Siyari by al Dhahabi, volume #6, page #255).

I am confused, what are you? A Sunni who is in Taqiyya or A Shia who is in Taqiyya. It looks like you like everyone (friends or enemies of Imam (as))

(wasalam)

Edited by akramabbas

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(bismillah)

(salam)

First; I also follow the Imams and am their follower better than you are. I never said that we should give up their sayings. I never asked any Shia Muslim to love Caliphs Abu Bakr, Umar or Usman (God be pleased with them all). I myself just respect them because I care for Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his descendants) and Sunni Muslims.

Seriously, with all due respect, your just turning tashayyu' into something completely other than what the Imams [as] intended.

(wasalam)

im sorry "modest" muslim, I follow my imams, what ever they say. I am not a hypocrite to enjoin good and evil. I enjoin good and forbid evil. I love those who love the imams, and i consider those who hate imams as enemies period.

What the flip? :donno:

^ Wait, that's not all, Modest Muslim would also like to include 'Yazīd, Mu‘āwiya, and Abu Sufyān in that list as well. Now, it all makes sense...

(wasalam)

Brothers. Do no waste your energy and time, but rather instead, let the Imam(as) speak out for himself on this matter. At the end of the day, no personal opinion can outweigh the sayings of Imam Al-Sadiq(as).

قال الصادق عليه السلام: ان الشيخين فارقا الدنيا ولم يتبا ولم يتذكرا ما صنعا بامير المومنين فعليهما لعنة الله والملاءكه والناس اجمعين

الكافي- الشيخ الكليني -8\246

imam jafar Al-Sadiq(as): "Certainly the Shaykain(Abu Bakr and Umar) left the world without repenting and without remembering what they have done to Amir Al-Mumineen(as), so may the cursing of Allah and the angels and the people be upon them.

Al-Kafi-Al-Shaik Al-Kulayni-Volume 8-Page 246- Arabic version

"وقال الصادق عليه السلام: "من شك في كفر أعدائنا الظالمين لنا فهو كافر".

- الاعتقادات - الشيخ المفيد ص 102، 106:

Imam Ja'far Al-Sadiq(as): "Whoever doubts in the kufr (disbelief) of our(as) enemies (and) the oppressors of us(as) then he is a kafir (disbeliever)".

Al-I'tiqadat-Al-Sheik Al-Mufeed-Page 102-106-Arabic version

(wasalam)

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Akhbari Muslims don't follow any marja. Shia Muslims believe that it's necessary to follow a marja. Akhbari Muslims believe that they follow Imams and that's necessary. Shia Muslims believe that you can't follow someone who's dead for the world or not present in front of you.

What rubbish! Yazid (God curse him) was not a Companion. As for the other two so it's very difficult for a Shia Muslim to control himself about them but you'll find the answer in the last paragraph.

Hey, when did I support the Caliphs? Get the point, bro. Sometimes, you need to respect someone you hate the most just due to some problems. What are the problems that make me respect the Companions? You'll find them in my last post but I'll repeat them again in my last paragraph.

That was a nice joke but if that makes me a Sunni Muslim then you must hold the same view for Imam Khamenei.

I show respect for the Caliphs because the Prophet kept them close to him, Imam Ali (despite their wrongdoings) helped them whenever it was necessary and 85% Muslims revere them so much. As for the two you named, I don't show any respect for them because they're not the main people. Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman and Ayesha (God be pleased with them) are those whom Sunni Muslims love badly and I, respecting my brothers's and sisters's feelings, show a little respect for them. As for Abu Sufyan and Muawiya, they're not so much respected.

Only a fool loves Yazid. God is the most merciful. He'll never show us a time when we'll be forced to respect that cursed emperor who mercilessly slaughtered the Prophet's grandson.

OK, you don't say, 'God be pleased with them'. Do whatever you want when you're home. Just don't insult them publicly.

Hey, I'm also disassociated with the Caliphs. I still say publicly that I believe that Imam Ali was the true successor of the Prophet. That doesn't make Sunni Muslims hate us. It's our insulting language that makes them furious.One of you posted some hadiths where our Imams cursed the Companions.

First; we've to investigate about the authenticity of that hadith. If we consider it to be an authentic hadith, it was the attitude of the time when Muslims used to curse Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib (peace be upon him) and his followers. Thus, Shia Muslims started to curse the Shaykhin. Nobody curses Imam Ali now. Everyone loves him. Thus, we don't need to do what we were doing 1000 years ago.

Don't you know about taqiyyah? We can perform taqiyyah. Why don't we perform it and keep silent about the Caliphs.

Look, I also curse those who wronged the Imams but I don't publicly curse the Companions unlike what some Shia Muslims do. I don't know which scholars support public insult of the Companions but if they do so then surely they're on the path of mendacity. I repeat that I have Imam Khamenei at my back.

What's that stupidity? 'Whoever doubts the disbelief of our enemies is a disbeliever himself.' What rubbish! I can't believe Sheikh Mufid can write such awful a statement in his book. That's not what Imam Jafar al Sadiq could say. One who doubts can never be an infidel. Infidel's the one who knows the truth but even then rejects it.

I've repeated this seventy times that I don't love the enemies of the Imams. I just hold back. My respect is not because they were good people. It' morality. I don't insult them in front of Sunni Muslims. It's our moral duty. For instance, there's a man who loves the one I hate the most. When he'll come in front of me, I'll abstain from insulting his loved one (who is hated by me) just because it wouldn't be appropriate. We all must respect each other's feelings, especially religious feelings. Do whatever you want when you're alone. Just don't say anything bad about the Companions publicly as it causes problems. You insult them and their lovers hate you, leave you, boycott you and finally kill you. You say that the Companions did bad things. Yes, I know it. Our Imams cursed them. Yes, I know it. Why do we follow a marja then? We follow a marja because commandments change with time. Combining two prayers is allowed in Islam but the Prophet usually did not use to combine two prayers. When our Imams came, they commanded that it's better to combine two prayers. Why did they do so? They did so because commandments change with time. Similarly, our Imams wanted us not to love their enemies. Yes, we'll never love their enemies as their enemies are the enemies of the God. Imam Khamenei just asked all Shia Muslims not to express their hatred publicly. Neither he nor his verdict is anti-Islamic. We don't need to insult the Companions publicly. Your thoughts are too childish. What do you think? You'll go to give Sunni Muslims evidences and they'll believe in you? What idiocity! Nobody leaves his faith so easily. People today don't see whether you have proofs or not. They look whether you're suitable for them or not. Shia Muslims are the original Muslims and they must befriend with Sunni Muslims to progress and make Islam and non-Shia Muslims progress as well. If you'll insult one's parents publicly, will he not hate you? My dear friend, my message is clear and simple and is in strict accordance with Shia Islam. I'm not asking anyone to love anyone. It's just my modest plea not to speak ill of the Companions in the public. Just keep silent about them. I also read Ziarat al Ashura and Dua e Sanami al Quraysh. I respect the Companions just because I care for the Prophet, the Imams, Sunni Muslims and Shia-Sunni unity. I'm just asking you not to insult anyone publicly. Sunni Muslims are our brothers and our insult hurts them. They kill us. Nobody's being benefited. Our insult is not causing reform. It's causing fitnah. That's why Imam Khamenei banned this insult and he did a great job. If you'll disagree with me now then you'll cause problems for yourself. It's up to you. We all are one. We all must take care of one another. Moreover, you can't befriend with a Sunni Muslim with insult for his religious leaders on your tongue. God bless you all.

Edited by Modest Muslim

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Akhbari Muslims don't follow any marja. Shia Muslims believe that it's necessary to follow a marja. Akhbari Muslims believe that they follow Imams and that's necessary. Shia Muslims believe that you can't follow someone who's dead for the world or not present in front of you.

So, let me get this straight. Real Shi`ahs are to follow a marja because the Imams [as] are dead. Akhbari's are fools because they insist on deriving their religion exclusively on the words of the Infallibles [as]. Silly me, I thought this whole time being Shi`ah meant following the Imams [as]. I guess I was wrong. Thanks for correcting my childish notions.

What rubbish! Yazid (God curse him) was not a Companion. As for the other two so it's very difficult for a Shia Muslim to control himself about them but you'll find the answer in the last paragraph.

Hey, when did I support the Caliphs? Get the point, bro. Sometimes, you need to respect someone you hate the most just due to some problems. What are the problems that make me respect the Companions? You'll find them in my last post but I'll repeat them again in my last paragraph.

That was a nice joke but if that makes me a Sunni Muslim then you must hold the same view for Imam Khamenei.

I show respect for the Caliphs because the Prophet kept them close to him, Imam Ali (despite their wrongdoings) helped them whenever it was necessary and 85% Muslims revere them so much. As for the two you named, I don't show any respect for them because they're not the main people. Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman and Ayesha (God be pleased with them) are those whom Sunni Muslims love badly and I, respecting my brothers's and sisters's feelings, show a little respect for them. As for Abu Sufyan and Muawiya, they're not so much respected.

Only a fool loves Yazid. God is the most merciful. He'll never show us a time when we'll be forced to respect that cursed emperor who mercilessly slaughtered the Prophet's grandson.

OK, you don't say, 'God be pleased with them'. Do whatever you want when you're home. Just don't insult them publicly.

Hey, I'm also disassociated with the Caliphs. I still say publicly that I believe that Imam Ali was the true successor of the Prophet. That doesn't make Sunni Muslims hate us. It's our insulting language that makes them furious.One of you posted some hadiths where our Imams cursed the Companions.

First; we've to investigate about the authenticity of that hadith. If we consider it to be an authentic hadith, it was the attitude of the time when Muslims used to curse Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib (peace be upon him) and his followers. Thus, Shia Muslims started to curse the Shaykhin. Nobody curses Imam Ali now. Everyone loves him. Thus, we don't need to do what we were doing 1000 years ago.

Don't you know about taqiyyah? We can perform taqiyyah. Why don't we perform it and keep silent about the Caliphs.

Look, I also curse those who wronged the Imams but I don't publicly curse the Companions unlike what some Shia Muslims do. I don't know which scholars support public insult of the Companions but if they do so then surely they're on the path of mendacity. I repeat that I have Imam Khamenei at my back.

What's that stupidity? 'Whoever doubts the disbelief of our enemies is a disbeliever himself.' What rubbish! I can't believe Sheikh Mufid can write such awful a statement in his book. That's not what Imam Jafar al Sadiq could say. One who doubts can never be an infidel. Infidel's the one who knows the truth but even then rejects it.

I've repeated this seventy times that I don't love the enemies of the Imams. I just hold back. My respect is not because they were good people. It' morality. I don't insult them in front of Sunni Muslims. It's our moral duty. For instance, there's a man who loves the one I hate the most. When he'll come in front of me, I'll abstain from insulting his loved one (who is hated by me) just because it wouldn't be appropriate. We all must respect each other's feelings, especially religious feelings. Do whatever you want when you're alone. Just don't say anything bad about the Companions publicly as it causes problems. You insult them and their lovers hate you, leave you, boycott you and finally kill you. You say that the Companions did bad things. Yes, I know it. Our Imams cursed them. Yes, I know it. Why do we follow a marja then? We follow a marja because commandments change with time. Combining two prayers is allowed in Islam but the Prophet usually did not use to combine two prayers. When our Imams came, they commanded that it's better to combine two prayers. Why did they do so? They did so because commandments change with time. Similarly, our Imams wanted us not to love their enemies. Yes, we'll never love their enemies as their enemies are the enemies of the God. Imam Khamenei just asked all Shia Muslims not to express their hatred publicly. Neither he nor his verdict is anti-Islamic. We don't need to insult the Companions publicly. Your thoughts are too childish. What do you think? You'll go to give Sunni Muslims evidences and they'll believe in you? What idiocity! Nobody leaves his faith so easily. People today don't see whether you have proofs or not. They look whether you're suitable for them or not. Shia Muslims are the original Muslims and they must befriend with Sunni Muslims to progress and make Islam and non-Shia Muslims progress as well. If you'll insult one's parents publicly, will he not hate you? My dear friend, my message is clear and simple and is in strict accordance with Shia Islam. I'm not asking anyone to love anyone. It's just my modest plea not to speak ill of the Companions in the public. Just keep silent about them. I also read Ziarat al Ashura and Dua e Sanami al Quraysh. I respect the Companions just because I care for the Prophet, the Imams, Sunni Muslims and Shia-Sunni unity. I'm just asking you not to insult anyone publicly. Sunni Muslims are our brothers and our insult hurts them. They kill us. Nobody's being benefited. Our insult is not causing reform. It's causing fitnah. That's why Imam Khamenei banned this insult and he did a great job. If you'll disagree with me now then you'll cause problems for yourself. It's up to you. We all are one. We all must take care of one another. Moreover, you can't befriend with a Sunni Muslim with insult for his religious leaders on your tongue. God bless you all.

...All I get from that body of text is a call to ditch the teachings of the Masumeen [as]. Apparently, what they said doesn't apply to us anymore. Lucky us, we have Imam Khamenei who will take of everything. Where would we be without him?

(wasalam)

Edited by Ibn al-Hassan

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Religion is derived from the words of Imam but we need a leader who could solve modern matters for us. There are many problems we face because we live in the 21st century and the ancient Muslims didn't use to face them. To solve such problems, we need a great scholar and that's the one whom we call our marja. Taqlid is necessary for all Shia Muslims. Do you disagree with this? Akhbari Muslims say that we don't need anyone to solve modern problems and that's foolishness indeed. They say that we don't need to differentiate between true and false hadiths and that's foolishness indeed.

Imam Khamenei didn't go against the teachings of Islam.

Look, it was my duty to give you the message of the true Shia Islam. If you'll receive it, you'll do Shia Muslims a favor and you must do it as both of you are Shia Muslims yourselves. If you doubt then tell me your doubts and prove me how I'm wrong. If you'll disagree then I've no right to force you for anything.

Imam Khamenei's verdict is in front of you.

Well, in this website's chat-room, insulting the Caliphs and Lady Ayesha (God be pleased with them) is banned. What do you say?

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Religion is derived from the words of Imam but we need a leader who could solve modern matters for us. There are many problems we face because we live in the 21st century and the ancient Muslims didn't use to face them. To solve such problems, we need a great scholar and that's the one whom we call our marja. Taqlid is necessary for all Shia Muslims. Do you disagree with this? Akhbari Muslims say that we don't need anyone to solve modern problems and that's foolishness indeed. They say that we don't need to differentiate between true and false hadiths and that's foolishness indeed.

Imam Khamenei didn't go against the teachings of Islam.

Look, it was my duty to give you the message of the true Shia Islam. If you'll receive it, you'll do Shia Muslims a favor and you must do it as both of you are Shia Muslims yourselves. If you doubt then tell me your doubts and prove me how I'm wrong. If you'll disagree then I've no right to force you for anything.

Imam Khamenei's verdict is in front of you.

Well, in this website's chat-room, insulting the Caliphs and Lady Ayesha (God be pleased with them) is banned. What do you say?

I say you're looking at things, with all due respect, quite naively. There are other methodological approaches to these issues. First, I disagree with your first assertion, that taqlid is necessary. One can refer to the expert knowledge of jurists in the areas of fiqh without having to commit themselves to everything that a scholar says (esp. since there is quite a bit of speculation that goes on). I hope you know that the institution of taqlid developed over time. When you use the terms Usoolis and Akhbaris, they only emerged a few centuries ago. Before that, people would refer to scholars without having to commit themselves to a rigid, man-made institution. I'm not criticizing any one who chooses to refer to scholars (or even one) in helping them acquire the knowledge of these fiqhi issues, but to say it's obligatory, that I completely reject. And you won't find our Imams [as] endorsing it either. It's more so predicated upon rational arguments. The thing is that those "rational" arguments change over time. So, there is no need to put much stock into them. Plus, what "modern" problems are you referring to anyways? There are ways of approaching these issues, but I'd like to know what exactly you have in mind when you say "modern."

(wasalam)

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My dear fellow, don't divert from the real issue.

What did I mean by 'modern' problems? Well, a man observed fast in Ottawa, traveled to Vancouver, went back to Ottawa and broke his fast at maghrib. Is this appropriate?

Such problems are modern because in the time of our Imams, nobody could think of traveling so fast. We need a marja who can lead us in this age of science and technology.

Do you agree that we must abstain from insulting the Companions publicly? If you don't then you can never approach Sunni Muslims peacefully.

I asserted so much on Imam Khamenei because Pure Ethics thought all Shia Muslim scholars to be against me.

Well, it's you who's taking things childishly. You think that Muslims can progress in this age while throwing pebbles at each other and quarreling like wild cats for their 1500 years old past. What rubbish! My dear friend, I see the future. I see what's better for both sects. My mission is to create harmony between all Islamic sects and then to bring all human beings together to make this world a global village in real means. Don't hurt anyone's feelings. If you agree then welcome. If you disagree then goodbye.

Edited by Modest Muslim

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Taqlid is obligatory and whoever doesn't follow any marja/mujtahid, he disobeys the Imams. I'll prove it when the debate about insulting the Companions will come to its end.

There's no debate to be had about cursing (i.e. sending lanat on those unworthy companions). You yourself conceded to the notion that the Imams [as] upheld this practice. The difference is I don't believe a marja can just come by and change these things, they don't have such authority. And I already stated that I'm not suggesting that somebody ought to run into a Sunni mosque yelling or shouting. Leave them be. No need to cause unnecessary problems. But other than that, I don't see an issue. They already know our historical reading of those early events and our outlook on those companions. The whole point of this practice is to bring us closer to Allah [swt]. We are to believe in the wilayah of the Masumeen [as], for they are the Proofs of God on Earth. And we are to seek baraah from their enemies, those who oppressed and even killed them. Through this we learn we constitutes good and what constitutes evil. These two concepts have been part of tashayyu' since the beginning.

(wasalam)

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My dear fellow, don't divert from the real issue.

What did I mean by 'modern' problems? Well, a man observed fast in Ottawa, traveled to Vancouver, went back to Ottawa and broke his fast at maghrib. Is this appropriate?

Such problems are modern because in the time of our Imams, nobody could think of traveling so fast. We need a marja who can lead us in this age of science and technology.

Do you agree that we must abstain from insulting the Companions publicly? If you don't then you can never approach Sunni Muslims peacefully.

I asserted so much on Imam Khamenei because Pure Ethics thought all Shia Muslim scholars to be against me.

Well, it's you who's taking things childishly. You think that Muslims can progress in this age while throwing pebbles at each other and quarreling like wild cats for their 1500 years old past. What rubbish! My dear friend, I see the future. I see what's better for both sects. My mission is to create harmony between all Islamic sects and then to bring all human beings together to make this world a global village in real means. Don't hurt anyone's feelings. If you agree then welcome. If you disagree then goodbye.

I think you mean pure truth not PureEthics.

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This means that you think we mustn't insult the Companions publicly. Is that so?

I said that 'if' the hadith you represented before us where Imam Jafar al Sadiq (peace be upon him) cursed the Companions is true even then it was the act of the time when it was fine to do so. Things change with time e.g. none of our religious personalities (expect for the 12th one) rode on any modern vehicles.

Yes, I know that we don't like those people who seized the right of our religious personalities but those who were the enemies of our religious personalities are themselves someone else's religious personalities. Do whatever you want when you're home. Just don't write books against them. Don't talk against them publicly. Don't give lectures against them at the places where everyone can hear you. You don't reform anyone. You just cause fitnah. You insult them. You don't lie. You tell the truth but your truth, instead of helping anyone, causes problems for Shia Muslims.

Keeping these problems and attitude of people like you in mind, Imams made taqlid obligatory.

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First; I also follow the Imams and am their follower better than you are. I never said that we should give up their sayings. I never asked any Shia Muslim to love Caliphs Abu Bakr, Umar or Usman (God be pleased with them all). I myself just respect them because I care for Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his descendants) and Sunni Muslims.

I think its time for you to reveal your true identity! Shias do not respect the enemies of Ahle Bayt (A), especially the first and the second one who are the roots of all injustice and opression against the Ahle Bayt (A). In fact you are a Nasibi if you respect the killer of Leader of the women of paradise Hazrat Fatimah al-Zahra (S), the second accursed one.

Cursing the Enemies of Ahle Bayt (A) especially the "Idols of Quraish" the first and the second and their daughters is a recommended tradition of Imams (A) and their Shias. His eminence Sheikh al-Habib in his series titled "Bayanu 'Aal e Muhammad Alayhim us-Salam Fi A'adaa’ihim" (i.e. Statements of 'Aal e Muhammad regarding their enemies) have collected tens of narrations from Imams (A) on this issue, he also reported a number of narrations where there was explicit mention of the enemies of the Ahle Bayt (A) by name.

My message and my request is in strict accordance with what Imams desired. The proofs are my logics, thoughts, verses I quoted, sunnah of the Prophet, Imam Ali's sermon (peace be upon him) I represented and the verdict of the one whom most of the Shia Muslims follow.

You are a liar and you have just became 'Najis' for falesly speaking on their behalf and attributing lies to our Imams (A). Now atrributing lies to the Imams (A) is like attributing lies to Holy Prophet (S) and its punishment is hell. You should repent and correct your beliefs if you are a Shia and go to hell if you are a Umari.

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I said that 'if' the hadith you represented before us where Imam Jafar al Sadiq (peace be upon him) cursed the Companions is true even then it was the act of the time when it was fine to do so. Things change with time e.g. none of our religious personalities (expect for the 12th one) rode on any modern vehicles.

Nice try! lol

Imam mahdi (A) do not need a modern vehicle. He can be anywhere He wishes. He visits Imam Hussain (A) in Karbala in a moment and in a blink of an eye He is in Mash'had ur-Reza (A), Kazimayn, Madina, etc.Just a reminder that Imam Mahdi (A) recites Ziyarat e 'Ashura and in this Ziyarat which is a Hadith a Qudsi, the enemies of Ahle Bayt (A) are cursed repeatedly. Especially the first and the second ones.

May Allah guide you.

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This response is for both of you, my dear friends.

I think that you've failed to understand my simple message very badly.

First; I also follow the Imams and am their follower better than you are. I never said that we should give up their sayings. I never asked any Shia Muslim to love Caliphs Abu Bakr, Umar or Usman (God be pleased with them all). I myself just respect them because I care for Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his descendants) and Sunni Muslims. I only asked you not to do what terrorists like Yasser al Habib are doing

....

With all due respect...

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته

Oh dear..please explain how this works? Tasleem on Muhammad صلى الله عليه وآله and Aal Muhammad عليهم السلام and Taraddi on their oppressors? Especially when the A'immah have condemned these individuals:

وسألت عن رجلين اغتصبا رجلا مالا كان ينفقه على الفقراء والمساكين وأبناء السبيل وفي سبيل الله فلما اغتصباه ذلك لم يرضيا حيث غصباه حتى حملاه إياه كرها فوق رقبته إلى منازلهما فلما أحرزاه توليا إنفاقه أيبلغان بذلك كفرا؟ فلعمري لقد نافقا قبل ذلك وردا على الله عز وجل كلامه وهزئا برسوله (صلى الله عليه وآله) وهما الكافران عليهما لعنة الله والملائكة والناس أجمعين

`Ali b. Suwayd: I wrote a letter to Abi al-Hasan al-Musa عليه السلام (Imaam Kazhim) when he was in prison in which I asked about his state and a large number of questions and he wrote to be this answer: "...And you ask about the two men who usurped the right of a man (Imaam `Ali عليه السلام), which he spent for the poor and the destitute and those who deplete their supplies on a journey and in the of Allaah. When they usurped his asset, they did not stop for that much until they made him carry that asset to their homes. When they secured it, then they made themselves as the person in charge of its spending and they reach the level of disbelief in doing so. By my life, they had played hypocrisy before as rejection against Allaah, and His words, by considering His Messenger as deriding and they are kaafirs, may the curse of Allaah, His angels and all people be upon them..."

al-Kulayni al Razi, Muhammad b. Ya`qub b. Ishaq, Abu Ja`far (d. 329 ah), al-Kafi fi al-Hadeeth, ed. `Ali Akbar al-Ghiffari, 8 vols. (Tehran, Iran: Dar al-Kutub al-Islamiyyah), Vol. 8, Pp. 124-126, Hadeeth 95

al-Majlisi's grading: الحديث الخامس و التسعون حديث أبي الحسن موسى عليه السلام‏

رواه بثلاثة أسانيد في الأول ضعف، و الثاني حسن كالصحيح، و في الثالث ضعف أو جهالة، لكن مجموع الأسانيد لتقوي بعضها ببعض في قوة الصحيح، و رواه الصدوق بسند صحيح.

Hadeeth Ninety-Five, the narration of Abi al-Hasan Musa عليه السلام‏: It is narrated by three chains, the first is weak, the second is Hasan like Saheeh, and the third is third is weak or Majhool, but, the combination of the chains of narration due to the strengthening of some of them by some is Saheeh in strength, and it is narrated by al Saduq رضي الله عنه by a Saheeh Sanad.

al-Majlisi al-Isfahani, Muhammad Baqir b. Muhammad Taqi (d. 1111 ah), Mir'at al-`Uqul fi Sharh Akhbar Aal al Rasul, ed. al Sayyid Ja`far al-Hussainy, 26 vols. (Tehran, Iran: Dar al-Kutub al-Islamiyyah, 1410 ah), Vol. 25, Pp. 295

Incase it was also unclear who the "two men" are, Majlisi wrote on page 298 of volume 25 of Mir'at:

قوله عليه السلام:" و سألت عن رجلين"

يعني أبا بكر و عمر عليهما اللعنة

He عليه السلام said: And you asked about the two men, meaning Aba Bakr and `Umar, upon them the curse (of Allaah).

And the chains of the Hadeeth:

عدة من أصحابنا، عن سهل بن زياد، عن إسماعيل بن مهران، عن محمد بن منصور الخزاعي، عن علي بن سويد

From a group of our companions, from Sahl . Ziyad, from Isma`il b. Mihran, from Muhammad b. Mansur al-Khaza`i, from `Ali b. Suwayd

ومحمد بن يحيى، عن محمد بن الحسين عن محمد بن إسماعيل بن بزيع، عن عمه حمزة بن بزيع، عن علي بن سويد

and Muhammad b. Yahya, from Muhammad b. al-Hussain, from Muhammad b. Isma`il b. Bazi`, from his uncle Hamzah b. Bazi`, from `Ali b. Suwayd

والحسن بن محمد، عن محمد بن أحمد النهدي، عن إسماعيل بن مهران، عن محمد بن منصور، عن علي بن سويد

and al-Hasan b. Muhammad, from Muhammad b. Ahmad al Nahdi, from Isma`il b. Mihran, from Muhammad b. Mansur, from `Ali b. Suwayd

I can understand the request to not curse them in public, but honestly, doing Taraddi on those two when the Imaam عليه السلام cursed them..why?

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته

Edited by al-`Ajal Ya Imaam

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I think its time for you to reveal your true identity! Shias do not respect the enemies of Ahle Bayt (A), especially the first and the second one who are the roots of all injustice and opression against the Ahle Bayt (A). In fact you are a Nasibi if you respect the killer of Leader of the women of paradise Hazrat Fatimah al-Zahra (S), the second accursed one.

Cursing the Enemies of Ahle Bayt (A) especially the "Idols of Quraish" the first and the second and their daughters is a recommended tradition of Imams (A) and their Shias. His eminence Sheikh al-Habib in his series titled "Bayanu 'Aal e Muhammad Alayhim us-Salam Fi A'adaa’ihim" (i.e. Statements of 'Aal e Muhammad regarding their enemies) have collected tens of narrations from Imams (A) on this issue, he also reported a number of narrations where there was explicit mention of the enemies of the Ahle Bayt (A) by name.

You are a liar and you have just became 'Najis' for falesly speaking on their behalf and attributing lies to our Imams (A). Now atrributing lies to the Imams (A) is like attributing lies to Holy Prophet (S) and its punishment is hell. You should repent and correct your beliefs if you are a Shia and go to hell if you are a Umari.

My true identity is Shia Islam.

You're repeating the same things. I've answered them all before. I don't respect the Caliphs because I love them. My personal opinion: thousands of the Companions were greater in rank and status than the Caliphs. I don't support the Caliphs as the rulers of the Muslims.

I've told you the truth. My message is the message of love, peace and justice. I'm not asking you to love anyone. I am just requesting you not to insult the Companions publicly as it makes Sunni Muslims hate and kill us. I care for you and I'm telling you what's good for you. If you want proofs, I'll show them to you. If you want a verse, I have it. If you want sunnah, I have it. If you want the saying of an infallible, I have it. If you want a verdict, I have the verdict of Imam Khamenei.

Pity of you. My dear brother, why are you so angry? Why are you abusing me? You must tolerate me. Different of opinions do exist and we must respect each other's opinion. You can't force all people to agree with you. You could calmly express your disagreement with me rather than abusing me. Your absurd passion and your low mental approach has enable the Satan to overcome you.

remember the Prophet. He tolerated the injustice of his people but always treated them well. When he overpowered them, he forgave them all. Pal, you're a Muslim. You love the Prophet and you must follow his footsteps.

Love and respect is the soul of any debate. Without it, there's no use debating.

Who authorized you to call me a sinner? Are you God? Are you His representative? You can't call me a sinner just because I've different thoughts that you have.

My beloved friend, I'm a Shia Muslim like you. My respect for those people is just because I care for Sunni Muslims's religious feelings and Shia-Sunni unity. Reread my message:

I've repeated this seventy times that I don't love the enemies of the Imams. I just hold back. My respect is not because they were good people. It' morality. I don't insult them in front of Sunni Muslims. It's our moral duty. For instance, there's a man who loves the one I hate the most. When he'll come in front of me, I'll abstain from insulting his loved one (who is hated by me) just because it wouldn't be appropriate. We all must respect each other's feelings, especially religious feelings. Do whatever you want when you're alone. Just don't say anything bad about the Companions publicly as it causes problems. You insult them and their lovers hate you, leave you, boycott you and finally kill you. You say that the Companions did bad things. Yes, I know it. Our Imams cursed them. Yes, I know it. Why do we follow a marja then? We follow a marja because commandments change with time. Combining two prayers is allowed in Islam but the Prophet usually did not use to combine two prayers. When our Imams came, they commanded that it's better to combine two prayers. Why did they do so? They did so because commandments change with time. Similarly, our Imams wanted us not to love their enemies. Yes, we'll never love their enemies as their enemies are the enemies of the God. Imam Khamenei just asked all Shia Muslims not to express their hatred publicly. Neither he nor his verdict is anti-Islamic. We don't need to insult the Companions publicly. Your thoughts are too childish. What do you think? You'll go to give Sunni Muslims evidences and they'll believe in you? What idiocity! Nobody leaves his faith so easily. People today don't see whether you have proofs or not. They look whether you're suitable for them or not. Shia Muslims are the original Muslims and they must befriend with Sunni Muslims to progress and make Islam and non-Shia Muslims progress as well. If you'll insult one's parents publicly, will he not hate you? My dear friend, my message is clear and simple and is in strict accordance with Shia Islam. I'm not asking anyone to love anyone. It's just my modest plea not to speak ill of the Companions in the public. Just keep silent about them. I also read Ziarat al Ashura and Dua e Sanami al Quraysh. I respect the Companions just because I care for the Prophet, the Imams, Sunni Muslims and Shia-Sunni unity. I'm just asking you not to insult anyone publicly. Sunni Muslims are our brothers and our insult hurts them. They kill us. Nobody's being benefited. Our insult is not causing reform. It's causing fitnah. That's why Imam Khamenei banned this insult and he did a great job. If you'll disagree with me now then you'll cause problems for yourself. It's up to you. We all are one. We all must take care of one another. Moreover, you can't befriend with a Sunni Muslim with insult for his religious leaders on your tongue.

I'm a Shia Muslim like you. We have the same religion and belong to the same sect. We are one, my honorable buddy. Different of opinions can exist between us because we are two different souls. But if we'll begin hating and abusing each other just because we disagree with each other at some points then who'll call us wise men? We must love and respect each other. Please don't hate me. If you ask for proofs then I will give them to you. My message is for your own profit. If you'll accept it then you'll soon be rewarded but if you'll disagree then OK.

There's no compulsion in the religion and we must not hate or abuse each other. We are Shia Muslims. We are brothers. We are friend. I ask God to bless you and forgive your sins. You hurt me but I would not hurt you. Please be nice. A nice man wins hearts but a hardhearted man loses his fame even if he's on the right path.

With love...

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته

Oh dear..please explain how this works? Tasleem on Muhammad صلى الله عليه وآله and Aal Muhammad عليهم السلام and Taraddi on their oppressors? Especially when the A'immah have condemned these individuals:

وسألت عن رجلين اغتصبا رجلا مالا كان ينفقه على الفقراء والمساكين وأبناء السبيل وفي سبيل الله فلما اغتصباه ذلك لم يرضيا حيث غصباه حتى حملاه إياه كرها فوق رقبته إلى منازلهما فلما أحرزاه توليا إنفاقه أيبلغان بذلك كفرا؟ فلعمري لقد نافقا قبل ذلك وردا على الله عز وجل كلامه وهزئا برسوله (صلى الله عليه وآله) وهما الكافران عليهما لعنة الله والملائكة والناس أجمعين

`Ali b. Suwayd: I wrote a letter to Abi al-Hasan al-Musa عليه السلام (Imaam Kazhim) when he was in prison in which I asked about his state and a large number of questions and he wrote to be this answer: "...And you ask about the two men who usurped the right of a man (Imaam `Ali عليه السلام), which he spent for the poor and the destitute and those who deplete their supplies on a journey and in the of Allaah. When they usurped his asset, they did not stop for that much until they made him carry that asset to their homes. When they secured it, then they made themselves as the person in charge of its spending and they reach the level of disbelief in doing so. By my life, they had played hypocrisy before as rejection against Allaah, and His words, by considering His Messenger as deriding and they are kaafirs, may the curse of Allaah, His angels and all people be upon them..."

al-Kulayni al Razi, Muhammad b. Ya`qub b. Ishaq, Abu Ja`far (d. 329 ah), al-Kafi fi al-Hadeeth, ed. `Ali Akbar al-Ghiffari, 8 vols. (Tehran, Iran: Dar al-Kutub al-Islamiyyah), Vol. 8, Pp. 124-126, Hadeeth 95

al-Majlisi's grading: الحديث الخامس و التسعون حديث أبي الحسن موسى عليه السلام‏

رواه بثلاثة أسانيد في الأول ضعف، و الثاني حسن كالصحيح، و في الثالث ضعف أو جهالة، لكن مجموع الأسانيد لتقوي بعضها ببعض في قوة الصحيح، و رواه الصدوق بسند صحيح.

Hadeeth Ninety-Five, the narration of Abi al-Hasan Musa عليه السلام‏: It is narrated by three chains, the first is weak, the second is Hasan like Saheeh, and the third is third is weak or Majhool, but, the combination of the chains of narration due to the strengthening of some of them by some is Saheeh in strength, and it is narrated by al Saduq رضي الله عنه by a Saheeh Sanad.

al-Majlisi al-Isfahani, Muhammad Baqir b. Muhammad Taqi (d. 1111 ah), Mir'at al-`Uqul fi Sharh Akhbar Aal al Rasul, ed. al Sayyid Ja`far al-Hussainy, 26 vols. (Tehran, Iran: Dar al-Kutub al-Islamiyyah, 1410 ah), Vol. 25, Pp. 295

Incase it was also unclear who the "two men" are, Majlisi wrote on page 298 of volume 25 of Mir'at:

قوله عليه السلام:" و سألت عن رجلين"

يعني أبا بكر و عمر عليهما اللعنة

He عليه السلام said: And you asked about the two men, meaning Aba Bakr and `Umar, upon them the curse (of Allaah).

And the chains of the Hadeeth:

عدة من أصحابنا، عن سهل بن زياد، عن إسماعيل بن مهران، عن محمد بن منصور الخزاعي، عن علي بن سويد

From a group of our companions, from Sahl . Ziyad, from Isma`il b. Mihran, from Muhammad b. Mansur al-Khaza`i, from `Ali b. Suwayd

ومحمد بن يحيى، عن محمد بن الحسين عن محمد بن إسماعيل بن بزيع، عن عمه حمزة بن بزيع، عن علي بن سويد

and Muhammad b. Yahya, from Muhammad b. al-Hussain, from Muhammad b. Isma`il b. Bazi`, from his uncle Hamzah b. Bazi`, from `Ali b. Suwayd

والحسن بن محمد، عن محمد بن أحمد النهدي، عن إسماعيل بن مهران، عن محمد بن منصور، عن علي بن سويد

and al-Hasan b. Muhammad, from Muhammad b. Ahmad al Nahdi, from Isma`il b. Mihran, from Muhammad b. Mansur, from `Ali b. Suwayd

I can understand the request to not curse them in public, but honestly, doing Taraddi on those two when the Imaam عليه السلام cursed them..why?

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته

I've repeated this seventy times that I don't love the enemies of the Imams. I just hold back. My respect is not because they were good people. It' morality. I don't insult them in front of Sunni Muslims. It's our moral duty. For instance, there's a man who loves the one I hate the most. When he'll come in front of me, I'll abstain from insulting his loved one (who is hated by me) just because it wouldn't be appropriate. We all must respect each other's feelings, especially religious feelings. Do whatever you want when you're alone. Just don't say anything bad about the Companions publicly as it causes problems. You insult them and their lovers hate you, leave you, boycott you and finally kill you. You say that the Companions did bad things. Yes, I know it. Our Imams cursed them. Yes, I know it. Why do we follow a marja then? We follow a marja because commandments change with time. Combining two prayers is allowed in Islam but the Prophet usually did not use to combine two prayers. When our Imams came, they commanded that it's better to combine two prayers. Why did they do so? They did so because commandments change with time. Similarly, our Imams wanted us not to love their enemies. Yes, we'll never love their enemies as their enemies are the enemies of the God. Imam Khamenei just asked all Shia Muslims not to express their hatred publicly. Neither he nor his verdict is anti-Islamic. We don't need to insult the Companions publicly. Your thoughts are too childish. What do you think? You'll go to give Sunni Muslims evidences and they'll believe in you? What idiocity! Nobody leaves his faith so easily. People today don't see whether you have proofs or not. They look whether you're suitable for them or not. Shia Muslims are the original Muslims and they must befriend with Sunni Muslims to progress and make Islam and non-Shia Muslims progress as well. If you'll insult one's parents publicly, will he not hate you? My dear friend, my message is clear and simple and is in strict accordance with Shia Islam. I'm not asking anyone to love anyone. It's just my modest plea not to speak ill of the Companions in the public. Just keep silent about them. I also read Ziarat al Ashura and Dua e Sanami al Quraysh. I respect the Companions just because I care for the Prophet, the Imams, Sunni Muslims and Shia-Sunni unity. I'm just asking you not to insult anyone publicly. Sunni Muslims are our brothers and our insult hurts them. They kill us. Nobody's being benefited. Our insult is not causing reform. It's causing fitnah. That's why Imam Khamenei banned this insult and he did a great job. If you'll disagree with me now then you'll cause problems for yourself. It's up to you. We all are one. We all must take care of one another. Moreover, you can't befriend with a Sunni Muslim with insult for his religious leaders on your tongue.

This is my message. I perform tabarra with those who hurt the progeny of Muhammad. Tabarra means to declare distance from anyone. Imams said what it was good for the people of their time. Now, don't insult the Companions publicly. Do whatever you desire in privacy. Just don't cause chaos and commotion. You insult their parents and they hate and kill you.

Read my all posts as I've answered your evidences.

Thanks for being nice and friendly.

Imam Khamenei's verdict is behind me.

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My true identity is Shia Islam.

I don't think so!

This is my message. I perform tabarra with those who hurt the progeny of Muhammad. Tabarra means to declare distance from anyone. Imams said what it was good for the people of their time.

Tabarra and Cursing the Enemies of Ahle Bayt (A) is of Wajibat and you should know that Wajibat don't change with time. Who is your Mujtahid?

Amir ul-Mo'menin Ali (A) used to recite the Dua e Sanamai Quraysh every night in his Qunoot, Hazrat Zahra (S) swore by Allah that She will curse the first and second after each prayer. In fact all Imams (A) are displeased with the first and the second and cursed them in their prayers.

Now, don't insult the Companions publicly. Do whatever you desire in privacy. Just don't cause chaos and commotion. You insult their parents and they hate and kill you.

Dear Umari;

You are speaking of insult as if we are a bunch of camel riders like your leaders in Saudi. You should know that insulting and revealing the truth about the enemies of Ahle Bayt (A) are different issues.

You say do not insult your parents but what about someone who kill Your Mother and Her unborn child? or Someone who put rope around the neck of your Father and arrests him in front of His family?

Well, the untold and sad truth is that your parents (the first and the second) killed Our Mother and violated the rights of Our Father. Thus may the curse of Allah, His Prophets, His Angels and all creations be upon them until the day of judgment.

Imam Khamenei's verdict is behind me.

Imam!? We have only 12 Imams (A). Is he your 13th Imam or what? lol

As I said most if not all of Khomeini's distorted views are his personal opinion and do not reflect the beliefs of Shias.

Any one else BEHIND you? lol

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This is my message. I perform tabarra with those who hurt the progeny of Muhammad. Tabarra means to declare distance from anyone. Imams said what it was good for the people of their time. Now, don't insult the Companions publicly. Do whatever you desire in privacy. Just don't cause chaos and commotion. You insult their parents and they hate and kill you.

Read my all posts as I've answered your evidences.

Thanks for being nice and friendly.

Imam Khamenei's verdict is behind me.

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته

Putting aside your confused conceptions of unity and religion. Please explain to me how now abusing the Shaykhayn, their daughters, and `Uthmaan or cursing them in public is equal to doing Taraddi on them, that's my question. Do these people honestly deserve taraddi in your eyes? The ones who robbed Imaam `Ali's عليه السلام right, attacked his house, and assaulted his wife which led to her death, then stole his right for about 2 decades. These are the people in your eye who deserve Taraddi..nice.

Also in post 13 you asked for the grading of the Hadeeth which PT posted, the one from Kafi:

حنان عن أبيه، عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: قلت له: ما كان ولد يعقوب أنبياء؟ قال: لا ولكنهم كانوا أسباط أولاد الانبياء ولم يكن يفارقوا الدنيا إلا سعداء تابوا وتذكروا ما صنعوا وإن الشيخين فارقا الدنيا ولم يتوبا ولم يتذكرا ما صنعا بأمير المؤمنين عليه السلام فعليهما لعنة الله والملائكة والناس أجمعين

Hanan, from his Father, from Abi Ja`far عليه السلام, he said: I said to him عليه السلام: "Were the children of Ya`qub عليه السلام prophets?" He said: "No, but they were grandchildren of offspring of the prophets, and they did not depart from the world except happily for they repented and remembered what they had done whereas the Shaykhayn departed the world and did not repent and did not remember on what they did to commander of the faithfulعليه السلام, So on them the curse of Allaah, and the angles, and all of mankind."

al-Kulayni al Razi, Muhammad b. Ya`qub b. Ishaq, Abu Ja`far (d. 329 ah), al-Kafi fi al-Hadeeth, ed. `Ali Akbar al-Ghiffari, 8 vols. (Tehran: Dar al-Kutub al-Islamiyyah, Second ed., 1389 ah), Vol. 8, Pp. 246, Hadeeth 343

Grading which you wanted:

حسن أو موثق

Hasan or Muwatthiq

Majlisi al-Isfahani, Muhammad Baqir b. Muhammad Taqi (d. 1111 ah), Mir'at al-`Uqul fi Sharh Akhbar Al al Rasul, ed. al Sayyid Ja`far al-Hussainy, 26 vols. (Tehran, Dar al-Kutub al-Islamiyyah, 1410 ah), Vol. 26, Pp. 215.

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته

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I don't think so!

Tabarra and Cursing the Enemies of Ahle Bayt (A) is of Wajibat and you should know that Wajibat don't change with time. Who is your Mujtahid?

Amir ul-Mo'menin Ali (A) used to recite the Dua e Sanamai Quraysh every night in his Qunoot, Hazrat Zahra (S) swore by Allah that She will curse the first and second after each prayer. In fact all Imams (A) are displeased with the first and the second and cursed them in their prayers.

Dear Umari;

You are speaking of insult as if we are a bunch of camel riders like your leaders in Saudi. You should know that insulting and revealing the truth about the enemies of Ahle Bayt (A) are different issues.

You say do not insult your parents but what about someone who kill Your Mother and Her unborn child? or Someone who put rope around the neck of your Father and arrests him in front of His family?

Well, the untold and sad truth is that your parents (the first and the second) killed Our Mother and violated the rights of Our Father. Thus may the curse of Allah, His Prophets, His Angels and all creations be upon them until the day of judgment.

Imam!? We have only 12 Imams (A). Is he your 13th Imam or what? lol

As I said most if not all of Khomeini's distorted views are his personal opinion and do not reflect the beliefs of Shias.

Any one else BEHIND you? lol

Look, buddy, you're continuously insulting me and calling me names.

You still have to learn to tolerate disagreement and overcome your feelings. I still can sense hatred in your post.

I don't debate with those who hate or insult me. I debate to teach and learn, not to hate and abuse.

Aslamalaykum,

How can God be pleased with them, when Hazrat Fatima s.a left this world displeased with them.

(salam)

:shifty:

Yeah, I know the whole incident and I can easily show my Sunni Muslim friends all evidences. What'll happen then? Will they say, 'oh, thank you buddy. You showed us the right path. We are all Shia Muslims now'? No rather they will hate me. Look, the matter of succession of the Prophet and the conflict between the Imams and the Caliphs is not our problems now. You and I are Shia Muslims and we know who was right and who was wrong. We've disassociated ourselves from the enemies of the Imams. Now it's our responsibility to befriend all non-Shia Muslims and save them from evil. Can we do this while insulting those whom they love the most? We must have to control ourselves in front of them. As for (ra), I do this just to please Sunni Muslims and there's nothing wrong doing this. If you don't like it then OK. Just don't insult the Companions publicly.

Edited by Modest Muslim

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Brother Al Ajal Ya Imam...

(salam)

Your question is valid.

If our Imams cursed the Caliphs, shouldn't we also do so? Why is this freak Modest Muslim advising us against insulting the Caliphs?

At the first sight, this question looks unanswerable but, in fact, this problem is very easy to solve. Indeed, our Imams revealed their true belief regarding the Caliphs publicly but one must remember that it was the act of those days. Today, we shouldn't insult the Companions publicly.

Why...? This freak Modest Muslim is again asking us to ditch the teachings of Imams? How can he say so? Is he really a Shia Muslim?

My dear friends, this problem is very easy to solve. The Imams knew that such problems would arise in the future so they made taqlid obligatory? Taqlid is one of the basic principles of Shia Islam. If you're a Shia Muslim then you must follow a marja otherwise your faith is useless.

Who did make taqlid obligatory?

Imam Hasan al Askari (peace be upon him) narrated from Imam Jafar al Sadiq (peace be upon him) who said:

'...but if there is anyone among the jurists who is in control over his own self, protects his religion, suppresses his evil desires and is obedient to the commands of his Lord then the people should follow him.'

(Al Ihtijaj by Al Tabarsi, volume #2, page #263, printed in Najaf, Iraq)

For more, visit these links:

1) http://www.al-islam.org/beliefs/practices/taqlid.html

2) http://www.al-islam.org/laws/taqlid.html

3) http://www.al-islam.org/falsafa/103.htm

4) http://www.al-islam.org/the-basics-of-islamic-jurisprudence/4.htm

My marja is Imam Khamenei who is the successor of Imam Khomeini (the great saint and one of the greatest Shia Muslim leaders ever) and the supreme leader of Iran (the state of which all Shia Muslims are proud). That great man, understanding the current situations, the tension between Shia and Sunni Muslims and the importance of unity between the both sects, banned the public insult of the Companions. He didn't ask us to love anyone. He just asked us not to express your hatred publicly.

Didn't Imam Khamenei go against the teachings of the Imams?

No, Islam allows taqiyyah. You can understand now, my dear brothers, the message I gave.

Moreover, the Prophet talked against the fake gods of Mecca but God didn't allow Muslims to abuse those whom non-Muslims worship other than God.

My message is the message of sanity. If you receive, you'll get rewarded. If you reject, you'll harm yourselves.

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Brother Al Ajal Ya Imam...

(salam)

Your question is valid.

If our Imams cursed the Caliphs, shouldn't we also do so? Why is this freak Modest Muslim advising us against insulting the Caliphs?

At the first sight, this question looks unanswerable but, in fact, this problem is very easy to solve. Indeed, our Imams revealed their true belief regarding the Caliphs publicly but one must remember that it was the act of those days. Today, we shouldn't insult the Companions publicly.

Why...? This freak Modest Muslim is again asking us to ditch the teachings of Imams? How can he say so? Is he really a Shia Muslim?

My dear friends, this problem is very easy to solve. The Imams knew that such problems would arise in the future so they made taqlid obligatory? Taqlid is one of the basic principles of Shia Islam. If you're a Shia Muslim then you must follow a marja otherwise your faith is useless.

Who did make taqlid obligatory?

For more, visit these links:

1) http://www.al-islam....ces/taqlid.html

2) http://www.al-islam....aws/taqlid.html

3) http://www.al-islam....falsafa/103.htm

4) http://www.al-islam....sprudence/4.htm

My marja is Imam Khamenei who is the successor of Imam Khomeini (the great saint and one of the greatest Shia Muslim leaders ever) and the supreme leader of Iran (the state of which all Shia Muslims are proud). That great man, understanding the current situations, the tension between Shia and Sunni Muslims and the importance of unity between the both sects, banned the public insult of the Companions. He didn't ask us to love anyone. He just asked us not to express your hatred publicly.

Didn't Imam Khamenei go against the teachings of the Imams?

No, Islam allows taqiyyah. You can understand now, my dear brothers, the message I gave.

Moreover, the Prophet talked against the fake gods of Mecca but God didn't allow Muslims to abuse those whom non-Muslims worship other than God.

My message is the message of sanity. If you receive, you'll get rewarded. If you reject, you'll harm yourselves.

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته

That's all fine and dandy, but you still haven't answered my question. Now you keep explaining to me why I shouldn't take Shaykh Yassir al-Habeeb's approach to Tabarra, where I go cuss out the Shaykhayn on TV, now that's semi-reasonable and I can understand that. However, what I don't understand is the following, and just the following: You have done Taraddi on the Shaykhayn, `Uthmaan, and `Aa'ishah (ie. you prayed for Allaah to be pleased with them), now why did you do that is what I am asking. Because, there's a world of difference between having manners in public, and becoming a Batri (as Yassir al-Habeeb likes to put it). Now please just answer why you did that.

Putting aside the other things you got wrong, Ayatullaah Khumayni was a saint? Boy that's new, but in case you were unaware, there are many people, on this site as well, who have opposed Khumayni's regime and Iran (Such as in this thread here which was entertaining when it was going) so Iran is not exactly a state as what you describe. And the first one to ban abusing the companions of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله was not Khamanaei, even Nader Shah of Iran, who came about 200 years before Khamanaei. And I just need to ask, do you sincerely think that Akhbaris are not Shi`ah?

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته

Edited by al-`Ajal Ya Imaam

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته

That's all fine and dandy, but you still haven't answered my question. Now you keep explaining to me why I shouldn't take Shaykh Yassir al-Habeeb's approach to Tabarra, where I go cuss out the Shaykhayn on TV, now that's semi-reasonable and I can understand that. However, what I don't understand is the following, and just the following: You have done Taraddi on the Shaykhayn, `Uthmaan, and `Aa'ishah (ie. you prayed for Allaah to be pleased with them), now why did you do that is what I am asking. Because, there's a world of difference between having manners in public, and becoming a Batri (as Yassir al-Habeeb likes to put it). Now please just answer why you did that.

Putting aside the other things you got wrong, Ayatullaah Khumayni was a saint? Boy that's new, but in case you were unaware, there are many people, on this site as well, who have opposed Khumayni's regime and Iran (Such as in this thread here which was entertaining when it was going) so Iran is not exactly a state as what you describe. And the first one to ban abusing the companions of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله was not Khamanaei, even Nader Shah of Iran, who came about 200 years before Khamanaei. And I just need to ask, do you sincerely think that Akhbaris are not Shi`ah?

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته

Thanks for understanding one half of my message.

Yasser al Habib (I beg your pardon if you love him) is an extremist and is doing what the terrorists are doing. He's causing tension between Shia and Sunni Muslims. I once heard that such Shia Muslim scholars were banned in Pakistan because their speeches were hateful for Sunni Muslims. Such scholars insult the Companions, terrorists go mad, blast a bum, the scholars run away with his security guards common laymen die.

Imam Khamenei's the successor of Imam Khomeini and the supreme leader of Iran. Moreover, his verdict was the need of the hour. His verdict was in 100% accordance with the teachings of Islam. Where truths causes problems, speaking truth is foolishness. At that place, you must keep silent. This' what all scholars of Islam and scholars of wisdom say that you must neither speak truth nor tell lie at some occasions e.g. my friend's father was arrested because he was a thief. If I'll say to my friend, 'hey, you're dad's a thief', he'll surely dislike it however it's truth. Morality and respect is the first thing. Islam teaches us to speak truth for good, not for bad. Islam teaches us not to hurt but for betterment. That's why abusing even polytheists's fake gods is prohibited in Islam.

I pray for those four because I care for Sunni Muslims. I've seen many Shia Muslims doing this. Many Shia Muslim writers write (ra) with their names and many organizations publish their books with the same style. It's common. We don't need to express what we really feel. You know the truth and you believe in it. That's enough.

Indeed, Imam Khomeini was a saint. Dr. Muhammad Iqbal was also a saint. Saints are many. They are not infallible. They are good people.

Even Imam Khomeini's and Shia Muslims' worst enemies have appreciated his regime.

Wasn't Nader Shah a man of mixed Shia-Sunni beliefs? He was not a scholar. His aim that Jafari Jurisprudence must be adopted as the fifth creed.

Are you an Akhbari Muslim?

Edited by Modest Muslim

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My true identity is Shia Islam.

You're repeating the same things. I've answered them all before. I don't respect the Caliphs because I love them. My personal opinion: thousands of the Companions were greater in rank and status than the Caliphs. I don't support the Caliphs as the rulers of the Muslims.

I've told you the truth. My message is the message of love, peace and justice. I'm not asking you to love anyone. I am just requesting you not to insult the Companions publicly as it makes Sunni Muslims hate and kill us. I care for you and I'm telling you what's good for you. If you want proofs, I'll show them to you. If you want a verse, I have it. If you want sunnah, I have it. If you want the saying of an infallible, I have it. If you want a verdict, I have the verdict of Imam Khamenei.

Pity of you. My dear brother, why are you so angry? Why are you abusing me? You must tolerate me. Different of opinions do exist and we must respect each other's opinion. You can't force all people to agree with you. You could calmly express your disagreement with me rather than abusing me. Your absurd passion and your low mental approach has enable the Satan to overcome you.

remember the Prophet. He tolerated the injustice of his people but always treated them well. When he overpowered them, he forgave them all. Pal, you're a Muslim. You love the Prophet and you must follow his footsteps.

Love and respect is the soul of any debate. Without it, there's no use debating.

Who authorized you to call me a sinner? Are you God? Are you His representative? You can't call me a sinner just because I've different thoughts that you have.

My beloved friend, I'm a Shia Muslim like you. My respect for those people is just because I care for Sunni Muslims's religious feelings and Shia-Sunni unity. Reread my message:

I'm a Shia Muslim like you. We have the same religion and belong to the same sect. We are one, my honorable buddy. Different of opinions can exist between us because we are two different souls. But if we'll begin hating and abusing each other just because we disagree with each other at some points then who'll call us wise men? We must love and respect each other. Please don't hate me. If you ask for proofs then I will give them to you. My message is for your own profit. If you'll accept it then you'll soon be rewarded but if you'll disagree then OK.

There's no compulsion in the religion and we must not hate or abuse each other. We are Shia Muslims. We are brothers. We are friend. I ask God to bless you and forgive your sins. You hurt me but I would not hurt you. Please be nice. A nice man wins hearts but a hardhearted man loses his fame even if he's on the right path.

With love...

This is my message. I perform tabarra with those who hurt the progeny of Muhammad. Tabarra means to declare distance from anyone. Imams said what it was good for the people of their time. Now, don't insult the Companions publicly. Do whatever you desire in privacy. Just don't cause chaos and commotion. You insult their parents and they hate and kill you.

Read my all posts as I've answered your evidences.

Thanks for being nice and friendly.

Imam Khamenei's verdict is behind me.

Impressive Brother, keep Up...I am with you too :)

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