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In the Name of God بسم الله

What Do Shias Really Think About Abu Bakr (Ra)?

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Since when did Muwatta of Malik bin anas had 2 volumes? Besides whats the name of the chapter? hadith number? its grading? Really you people cant even lie properly. Its simply an art of copy past from one site to another. You think u r so clever in making us fool? Have some proper understanding of hadith & than talk abt the books of others sects.

Any hadith you don't like is a lie right? And I gave you the exact page number, so if you know how to read you can go find it.

"On doomsday, when I will be at the water pond delivering water to those who will be thirsty among my followers, a group of my followers will come to drink but the angels will drive them away and take them to Hell! And I'll say: Oh, Allah! They are my companions! But Allah will tell me: You do not know what they did after your death. They degraded themselves to apostasy..... Thus, only small number of my companions will escape like deserted camels in the desert."

- Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol VII, Page 206

Now tell me, which number of companions was the small number, the ones who became Sunni and pledged allegiance to Abu Bakr and Umar, or the Shia ones?

The Shia Sahabah were the ones smaller in number

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It's called respect, something you don't seem to know much about. Do you have a problem with people saying Sayyida `Aisha?

I don't know what other Shias think of Abu Bakr but I personally think it would be better if he had died when he was a baby :) :) :) :) :) .... That way he still had a chance to go to Jannah. lolzzzz

(salam) Because after the death of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) there was a huge divide. It was between his family and his companions. Things got ugly and there were wars where people died. We have to p

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In Shaa Allah you won't go where Abu Bakr [Ra] Is Going whom is buried with the prophet SAW and is going to the same destination as the prophet SAW,...let's just stop at that, I don't want you earning any more sins that you've already earned.

Edit: Please quoting me with made up fairy tails. Thank you. & NO don't send me a bunch of bukari hadiths saying this and that, I am not knowledgeable on that and I'll keep quiet.

Did Abu Bakr and Umar seek Rasulallah Permission to be buried next to Rasulallah?? Why i ask this, is because: there is a verse in the Holy Quran to enter Rasulallah house, Allah say you need to seek permission to enter his Rasulallah house.

So, are there any authentic narration that Abu Bakr or Umar where granted such permission, from (pbuh) WHEN HE WAS ALIVE??

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Did Abu Bakr and Umar seek Rasulallah Permission to be buried next to Rasulallah?? Why i ask this, is because: there is a verse in the Holy Quran to enter Rasulallah house, Allah say you need to seek permission to enter his Rasulallah house.

So, are there any authentic narration that Abu Bakr or Umar where granted such permission, from (pbuh) WHEN HE WAS ALIVE??

Thanks for posting another Quranic proof of Umer and Abu Bakra to be thieves and looters.

Weren't these people kicked out of Masjid Nabi and their doors into the masjid closed, while only prophet's own door and Ali&Fatima (as) doors were allowed to be open inside the masjid.

What these Abu Bakra and Umra thieves didn't qualify for while they were living their lives of nifaq, how come would they qualify when they are dead and their bodies are mostly likely najis with the impurities of kufr, nifaq, and more likely wrong ghusl their other jahil followers performed on them?

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Hanan Ibn Sadir narrated: "I asked Imam al-Baqir (A) about these two (That is Umar and Abu Bakr). He (A) replied: "O Aba al-Fadhl! Do not ask me about them for, by Allah, non among us (Ahlul-Bayt) would die except that he is displeased with those two. No day passes to us except that we are angry with them. Indeed, they oppressed us and denied our rights and they were the first and foremost people who imposed themselves over us and opened the stream of injustice against us that does not stop until our Qaa'im rises... By Allah! No affliction was set up against us and no trouble faced us Ahlul-Bayt except that those two founded its root. Thus upon those two 'are the curse of Allah and the Angels and people all' (2:161)"

Ref : Al-Kafi, v8, p245, Hadith No 340

Bihar al-Anwar, v30, p269, Hadith No 138

Imam al-Sadiq (A) said: "By Allah! There shall be no bloodshed, no clash, no rape, and no illegitimate confiscation of property except that its burden is on neck of those two without anything decreases from the burdens of the (people of) worlds."

Ref : Tafsir Ali Ibn Ibrahim al-Qummi, v1, Pg 383, under Verse 16:25

Bihar al-Anwar, Vol 30, Pg 149, Hadith No 4

The scope and nature of their crime is unimaginable but to get an idea one should read "Dua Sanamai Quraish" or "Paryer of Idols of Quraish". In this prayer Amir ul-Mo'menin (A) curses the first and the second one and their daughters and also counts their crimes. Those who are interested can find this prayer on the internet.

Amir ul-Mo'menin (A) said whoever would recite this prayer will get an extra-ordinary reward from the Lord; similar to assisting Prophet Mohammed (S) during the battles of ‘Ohad and Tabooq’ and would achieve the martyred status in the presence of Prophet (S). And the reward of 100 Hajj and Umara as an associate of Prophet Mohammed (S) as well as ‘Sawab’ of 1000 months of fasting. In addition, one will be on the side of Rasulullah (S) and the Ai'mah (A) asws on the day of judgement and Allah will forgive all his/her sins, despite the fact if his/her committed sins are equivalent to the stars in the sky, grains of sand in the wilderness and leaves of all trees. Also the reciter will be saved from punishment in the grave and a window from heaven will be installed in his/her grave.

Any Shia who has doubt in Kufr of the first and the second one, and the fact that they are right now in hell, should double check with their Marja' and correct his/her beliefs before its too late. I recommend "The Book of Sulaim ibn Qays Hilali (ra)" or "Asraar 'Aal e Muhammad (S)" for Shias. This precious book which was written by Sulaym Ibn Qays Hilali, a Companion of Amir ul-Mo'menin (A), and has the approval of several Imams (A) is the mother book and source of all Shia Hadith books.

Thiqatul Islam al-Kulayni and Sheikh ul-Ta’ifa al-Tusi (May Allah be pleased with them) on the authority of al-Hussain Bin Thuayr and Abu Salamah al-Sarraj who said: “We have heard Abu Abdullah (Imam al-Sadeq) peace be upon him, laying curse upon four men and four women after each obligatory prayer; Fulan (Abu Bakr), Fulan (Umar), Fulan (Uthman), and Muawiya – he used to mention them by name – Ai'sha, Hafsa, Hind and Ummul Hakam sister of Muawiya”. (al-Kafi vol. 3 p. 342, Tahthibul-Ahkam vol. 2 p. 321)

We believe that our Imams are Ma'sum (infallible), thus they would never curse someone unjustly. After all there are authentic ahadith in Sihah Sittah where it says that Hazrat Fatimah (S) said to the first and the second one that She will curse them after each prayer. Imam al-Askari (A) said: "We (the Imams) are Hujjah of Allah upon his creation, and our grandmother Fatimah is Hujjah upon us."

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Since when did Muwatta of Malik bin anas had 2 volumes? Besides whats the name of the chapter? hadith number? its grading? Really u people cant even lie properly. Its simply an art of copy past from one site to another. You think u r so clever in making us fool? Have some proper understanding of hadith & than talk abt the books of others sects.

Here is the link to Muwatta of Imam malik: http://www.hadithcollection.com/maliksmuwatta.html

If u understand urdu than here is another one https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://sirat-e-mustaqeem.com/web/uBooks/Hadees-Shareef/Mouta-imam-malik%2520(Takhreej)/Maota%2520imam%2520malik-takhreej%2520Shuda.pdf

 

The fact that you are ignorant of Muwatta doesn't mean others are lying.

 

The whole of Sunni religion is built to make belive evil as good. Truth is not what they want to hear

 

http://hadithcollection.com/maliksmuwatta/192-Maliks%20Muwatta%20Book%2021.%20Jihad/19693-maliks-muwatta-book-021-hadith-number-032.html

Maliks Muwatta Book 021, Hadith Number 032.
Maliks Muwatta Book 21. Jihad
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Bismillah-Hir-Rahman-Nir-Raheem

Section : The Martyrs in the Way of Allah.

Yahya related to me from Malik from Abu'n-Nadr, the mawla of Umar ibn Ubaydullah that he had heard that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said over the martyrs of Uhud, "I testify for them." Abu Bakr as-Siddiq said, "Messenger of Allah! Are we not their brothers? We entered Islam as they entered Islam and we did jihad as they did jihad." The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Yes, but I do not know what you will do after me." Abu Bakr wept profusely and said, "Are we really going to out-live you!"

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The fact that you are ignorant of Muwatta doesn't mean others are lying.

 

The whole of Sunni religion is built to make belive evil as good. Truth is not what they want to hear

 

http://hadithcollection.com/maliksmuwatta/192-Maliks%20Muwatta%20Book%2021.%20Jihad/19693-maliks-muwatta-book-021-hadith-number-032.html

Maliks Muwatta Book 021, Hadith Number 032.
Maliks Muwatta Book 21. Jihad
printButton.png

Bismillah-Hir-Rahman-Nir-Raheem

Section : The Martyrs in the Way of Allah.

Yahya related to me from Malik from Abu'n-Nadr, the mawla of Umar ibn Ubaydullah that he had heard that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said over the martyrs of Uhud, "I testify for them." Abu Bakr as-Siddiq said, "Messenger of Allah! Are we not their brothers? We entered Islam as they entered Islam and we did jihad as they did jihad." The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Yes, but I do not know what you will do after me." Abu Bakr wept profusely and said, "Are we really going to out-live you!"

 

 

Narration Correct.

 

 

There is Volume 2. And the Narration is Correct in Volume 2, page 461, 462:

post-83202-0-63814300-1383830378_thumb.jpost-83202-0-84998500-1383830380_thumb.jpost-83202-0-81161800-1383830375_thumb.j

 

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Some sources for you brother:

We also read in both Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim:

The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) had frequently said:

"Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry."

Sunni references: - Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111 - Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5

 

 

Some truth for you brother; do you know who the Prophet (saw) said that to?  Abu Bakr (ra)?  Umar (ra)?  Uthman (ra)?  Or, Ali (ra) ;)

It is narrated on the authority of Abu Abdullah Jafar Al-Sadiq: A miserable of the miserables came to Fatima, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah, and said to her: “Did you not know that Ali proposed to marry (Khataba) the daughter of Abu Jahl?” She said: “Is it true what you say? He said three times: “What I say is true.” Jealousy entered into her (heart) to an extent she could not control, for Allah has ordained that women be jealous and that men perform Jihad, and He has made the reward of the patient (woman) similar to that of the Murabit and Muhajir in the way of Allah.

He said: And Fatima’s anguish became severe and she remained thinking about it until night time…she moved to her father’s residence. Ali came to his residence and did not see Fatima and his anguish increased and became great on him, even though he did not know what happened, and he was ashamed to call her from her father’s house so he went to the Masjid and prayed as much as Allah willed, and he collected some of the sand in the Masjid and laid on it.

When the Prophet saw how sad and anguished Fatima was, he poured water over himself and wore his clothes and entered the Masjid. He kept praying, making Rukoo and Sujood, and after every time he completed two Raka he made Du’a that Allah remove what Fatima had of sadness and anguish because he left her turning over and breathing heavily. When the Prophet saw that she could not sleep and could not rest he said: “O daughter, rise!” So she rose and the Prophet carried Al-Hassan and she carried Al-Hussain and took hold of Umm Kulthoom’s hand until they reached Ali (AS) while he was sleeping.

The Prophet put his foot on Ali, pinched him, and said: “Rise Abu Turab! You have disturbed many a resting person. Call for me Abu Bakr from his house and Umar from his Majlis and Talha.” So Ali went and got them from their houses and they gathered around the Messenger of Allah.

The Messenger of Allah then said: “O Ali! Do you not know that Fatima is a piece of me and I am from her. Whoever disturbs her, disturbs me and whoever disturbs me has disturbed Allah, and whoever disturbs her after my death then as if he has disturbed her in my lifetime and whoever disturbed her in my lifetime then as if he has disturbed her after my death.”

(source: Ibn Babveh Al Qummi’s “Elal Al-Sharae’”, pp.185-186, Al-Najaf Print; also narrated in Majlisi “Bihar” 43/201-202)

 

This story is not only narrated by the Shia founding father Al-Qummi, but it is also narrated by Al-Majlisi in his book Jala Al-Eoyon.

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On The Orthodox Islamic Doctrine That The Community [umma] Of Muhammed (Allah Bless Him And Give Him Peace) Is The Best Of All Communities.

Those who remain faithful to the orthodox tradition of Islam [ahl as-Sunna] are firmly convinced that the Community [umma] of Muhammed (Allah bless him and give him peace) is the best of all Communities.

The most excellent of all the members of that Community are the people belonging to his own generation, those who witnessed him in person with their own eyes, who believed in him and acknowledged the truth of his words, who paid homage to him and became his loyal followers, who fought in his presence and sacrificed themselves and their possessions for his sake, who gave him their support and their assistance.

The most excellent of all the people of the early generations [ahl al-quran] (1) are the people who followed the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) to al-Hudaibiyya, and who paid homage to him there by swearing the oath of allegiance [bai’at ar-ridwan]. (2) They number one thousand four hundred men.

The most excellent of these are the people who had previously fought at the battle of Badr. (3)

They number three hundred and thirteen men, which happens to be the number of the Companions of Saul [Talut].

The most excellent of these are the forty occupants of the House of Reeds [Dar al-Khaizuran], whose number was completed by Umar ibn al-Khattab.

The most excellent of these are the ten for whom the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) vouched that they would surely enter the Garden of Paradise. They are: Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Talha, az-Zubair, Abd ar-Rahman ibn Awf, Sa’d ibn Abi Waqqas, Said ibn Zaid and Abu Ubaida ibn al-Jarrah. (4)

The most excellent of these righteous ten are the rightly guided Caliphs [al-Khulafa ar-Rashidun], the four who are the best of all.

The most excellent of these four is Abu Bakr, followed by Umar then by Uthman and then by Ali (may Allah the Exalted be well pleased with them all).

The Caliphate [khilafa] belonged to these four, following the death of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), for a period of thirty years all told. Abu Bakr, (may Allah be well pleased with him) was in command for just over two years, Umar (may Allah be well pleased with him) for ten, Uthman (may Allah be well pleased with him) for twelve and Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him) for six. The office of Caliph was then held by Mu’awiya for a period of nineteen years, prior to which he had spent twenty years as governor of the people of Syria, in a post to which he had been appointed by Umar.

The Caliphate of the Four Imams was a matter of free election by the Companions, with their unanimous agreement and willing consent. Its acquisition was also due to the superior merit of each of them, in his own age and time, over and above the rest of the Companions. It was not taken by the sword, by compulsion, coercion and forcible seizure from someone more worthy of the position.




(1)   The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) is reported as having said that there would be three virtuous generations [qurun], the one in which he lived and the two following it.

(2)   This took place in the sixth year of the Hijra.

(3)   The battle of Badr, in which the Muslims won an important victory over the unbelievers of Quraish, was fought during the month of Ramadan in the second year of the Hijra.

(4)   These ten noble companions (may Allah be well pleased with them all) are generally referred to as al-Ashara ‘l-Mubashshara [“The ten who received glad tidings.”]

 


On The Caliphate of Abu Bakr The Champion Of Truth [as-Siddiq] (may Allah Be Well Pleased With Him).

 

 

As for the Caliphate of Abu Bakr, the Champion of Truth [as-Siddiq] (may Allah be well pleased with him), it came about through the unanimous agreement of the Emigrants [Muhajirun] and the Helpers [Ansar]. The way it happened was as follows: When the earthly life of Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) had come to an end, the spokesmen of the Helpers said: “[Let there now be] a leader [amir] from amongst ourselves, and a leader from among you [Emigrants].”

Then up stood Umar ibn al-Khattab (may Allah be well pleased with him) saying: ‘O band of Helpers, surely you are well aware that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) commanded Abu Bakr to lead [an ya’umma] the people [in prayer]?” They all said: “Yes, of course!” So he said: “In that case, which of you considers himself fit to stand in front of Abu Bakr?” They all responded to this by saying: “May Allah protect us from presuming to stand in front of Abu Bakr!”

According to a slightly different account of this same sequence of events, the words spoken by Umar (may Allah be well pleased with him), were: “In that case, which of you considers himself fit to remove him from the position to which he was appointed by Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace)?” They all responded to this by saying: “None of us considers himself fit to do such a thing! We seek forgiveness from Allah [for having entertained such a notion].”

Thus they found themselves in complete accord with the Emigrants and so the full complement of the Companions paid homage to Abu Bakr, including Ali and Zubair. (1)

This also explains why it is stated, in the authentic traditional report, that when homage was paid to Abu Bakr (may Allah be well pleased with him) he stood up three times, turning to face the people as he said:

“O People, should I release you from your pledge of allegiance [bai’at] to me? Is anyone making it reluctantly?”


Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him) was among the first of the people present to stand up and say in reply: “We shall never depose you, we shall never ask for your resignation! It was Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) who brought you to the fore, so who would dare to push you to the rear?” We have in fact been informed, on the authority of very reliable sources, that Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him) was the most outspoken of all the Companions in favor of the leadership [imama] of Abu Bakr (may Allah be well pleased with him).

We know from traditional reports that Abdu’llah ibn al-Kawwa’ entered the presence of Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him) after the Battle of the Camel, (2) and asked him: “Did Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) entrust you with any special information concerning this matter [of the Caliphate]?” To this he replied by saying: “We examined our situation carefully, and we had to acknowledge that the ritual prayer [salat] is the mainstay of Islam. We were therefore content to accept as appropriate to the conduct of our affairs in this world, that which Allah and His Messenger had seen fit to approve for the sake of our religion [din]. So we entrusted the matter [of the Caliphate] to Abu Bakr.”

The point that Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him) is making here is that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), during  the days of his final sickness, had delegated the task of leading the prescribed ritual prayer [imamat as-salat al-marfuda] to Abu Bakr, the Champion of Truth [as-Siddiq] (may Allah be well pleased with him). Bilal (3) would come to him at the time appointed for each of the five daily prayers and he would utter the Call to Prayer in his presence [yu’adhdhinuhu bi’s s-salat]. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) would then say: “Go and tell Abu Bakr that he must lead the people in prayer.”

While he was still alive and well, the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) would often speak on the subject of Abu Bakr, (may Allah be well pleased with him), in such terms that it became quite obvious to all the Companions that he must be the person best qualified to assume the Caliphate when the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) was no longer with them. It was made equally obvious, in respect of Umar, Uthman and Ali (may Allah be well pleased with them), that each of them would be the one best qualified to assume that office in his own age and time.

Among other evidence to this effect, we have the traditional report of Ibn Batta, complete with its chain of transmission [isnad] from Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him) who said: “Someone asked: ‘O Messenger of Allah, whom shall we appoint to be our leader, when you are no longer with us?” He replied (Allah bless him and give him peace) by saying:

If you appoint Abu Bakr to be your leader, you will find him trustworthy, abstemious in relation to this world, and enthusiastic in relation to the hereafter, If you appoint Umar to be your leader, you will find him strong and trustworthy, someone who is not afraid, when the interest of Allah is at stake, of criticism from any critic. If you put Ali in charge, you will find him a good guide, who is himself rightly guided.
“Because of this, they agreed unanimously that the Caliphate should go to Abu Bakr.”

According to another traditional report, handed down to us on the authority of our own Imam, Abu Abdi’llah Ahmad ibn Hanbal (may Allah bestow His mercy upon him), the validity of the Caliphate of Abu Bakr (may Allah be well pleased with him) has been established beyond any doubt, by clear and explicit evidence as well as by implication.

This also happens to be the doctrine [madhhab] of al-Hasan l-Basri and a significant group of experts in the tradition [ashab al-hadith]. One piece of evidence to support their view is provided by Abu Huraira (may Allah be well pleased with him), according to whose report the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) once said:

When I was carried aloft on my Heavenly Ascension, I asked my Lord (Almighty and Glorious is He) to appoint Ali ibn Abi Talib as Caliph after my lifetime. But the angels said: “O Muhammed, Allah does whatever He wills. The Caliph after you will be Abu Bakr.”

The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) also said, according to the tradition of Ibn  Umar (may Allah be well pleased with him and with his father):

The one [who will be caliph] after me is Abu Bakr, but he will not remain here very long after I am gone.

Mujahid (may Allah bestow his mercy upon him) is reported as having said: “Ali ibn Abi Talib (may Allah be well pleased with him) once said to me: ‘The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) did not leave the abode of this lower world until he had informed me: “Abu Bakr will be in charge after I am gone. Then Umar, then Uthman after him, then Ali after him.””




(1)   The participation of Ali and az-Zubair is emphasized at this point, because these two would later be involved in serious controversy and conflict over the succession to the Caliphate.

(2)   The Battle of the Camel was fought in A.H. 36, between Ali and his supporters on one side, and an army assembled by Talha and az-Zubair on the other. The battle, in which Ali was victorious, acquired its name from the camel ridden by A’isha (may Allah be well pleased with her), who was in the thick of the fight, on the side of Talha and az-Zubair, until her camel was killed.

(3)   Bilal, an Abysinnian slave who had been ransomed by Abu Bakr, was the first muezzin [mu’adhdhin] appointed by the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) to summon the Muslim Community to the five daily prayers.


 


 
On The Caliphate of Umar Ibn al-Khattab (may Allah be well pleased with him).

 

 

 

As for the Caliphate of Umar (may Allah be well pleased with him), he was designated to succeed to it by Abu Bakr himself (may Allah be well pleased with him), so all the Companions willingly agreed to pledge their allegiance to him, and to call him by the title “Commander of the Believers [Amir al-Mu’minin].”

According to the statement of Abdu’llah ibn Abbas (may Allah be well pleased with him and with his father): “They said to Abu Bakr (may Allah be well pleased with him): ‘What will you say to your Lord, when you meet Him tomorrow [at the Resurrection], knowing that you designated “Umar to succeed you as our Caliph, even though you were fully aware of his coarse severity?’ But he replied: ‘I shall say: “I designated the best of Your people to succeed me as their Caliph.””

 


On The Caliphate of Uthman Ibn Affan (may Allah be well pleased with him).

 

As for the Caliphate of Uthman ibn Affan (may Allah be well pleased with him), it also came about as a result of the unanimous agreement of the Companions (may Allah be well pleased with them all). The actual process was as follows: Umar (may Allah be well pleased with him) had executed his own sons from the succession to the Caliphate, which he left to be decided by a consultative council [shura] consisting of six individual members, namely Talha, az-Zubair, Sa’d ibn Abi Waqqas, Uthman, Ali and Abd ar-Rahman ibn Awf. Abd ar-Rahman said to Ali and Uthman: “I shall vote for one of you two, for the sake of Allah and His Messenger, and for the sake of all the believers.”

Then he took Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him) by the hand, and said to him: “ O Ali, let it be your responsibility to fulfill the contract [ahd] and compact [mithaq] of Allah, His covenant [dhimma] and the covenant of His Messenger. I hereby pledge you my allegiance, trusting that you will conduct yourself in all sincerity, for the sake of Allah, for the sake of His Messenger, and for the benefit of all the believers, and that you will follow in the footsteps of His Messenger, of Abu Bakr, and of Umar.” But Ali was afraid that he might not be strong enough to cope with the negative criticism to which he would be exposed, so he declined to accept the offer. Abd ar-Rahman then took Uthman (may Allah be well pleased with him) by the hand, and said to him what he had just said to Ali. Uthman gave him a positive response, so he stroked the hand of Uthman and pledged his allegiance to him. Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him) pledged his allegiance to him also. Then the rest of the people all pledged their allegiance.

Thus it was that Uthman ibn Affan came to be the Caliph of all the people, by their unanimous agreement. He was a rightful leader [imam] until the day he died. He was never guilty of anything serious enough to justify the attempts to impeach him, the accusations of moral depravity, and his eventual assassination, contrary to the claims made by the Rawafid/shia. (may they be doomed to perdition!)



 


 
On The Caliphate of Ali ibn Abi Talib (may Allah be well pleased with him).

 

As for the Caliphate of Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him). It came about as a result of the general agreement of the community and by the consensus of the Companions.

This view of the matter is borne out by the traditional report of Abu Abdi’llah ibn Batta, who attributes the following account to Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiyya:

“I was in the company of Ali ibn Abi Talib while Uthman ibn Affan was under the siege. Then a man came along and told us:  ‘The Commander of the Believers [Amir al-Mu’minin] was killed just a little while ago.’ Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him) sprang to his feet at once, so I grabbed him and held him by the waist, for fear that he might do something rash, but he cried: “Let go off me, you motherless wretch!” Then Ali went to the palace, where he found that Uthman had indeed been slain, so he made his way to his own house, went inside and locked the door.

“The people came after him, and started hammering on his door. As soon as they were admitted inside, they said: ‘Uthman has been killed, and the people cannot manage without a Caliph. There is no one, as far as we know, who is better qualified for the job than you are.’ But Ali responded to this by saying to them: ‘You do not really want me, for I can serve you better as a minister [wazir] than as a commander [amir].’

“Still the people insisted: ‘We know of no one who is better qualified for the job than you are.’ So he said (may Allah be well pleased with him): ‘Very well, if you insist on leaving me no choice. In any case, the fact that homage has been paid to me will not be a secret for long, but let me go out to the  Masjid [masjid], so that all those who wish to pledge their allegiance to me may do so there.’ He then left his house (may Allah be well pleased with him) and went to the  Masjid, where the people came and pledged their allegiance to him.”

He was therefore a rightful leader [imam] from that time on, until the moment when he was murdered, contrary to what is said by the Khawarij, for they maintain that he never was a legitimate leader. May they be doomed to perdition!

As for the battle he fought (may Allah be well pleased with him) against Talha, az-Zubair, Aisha and Mu’awiya, the emphatically stated opinion of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (may Allah be well pleased with him) is that we should adopt an attitude of strict neutrality [imsak] toward this incident, and indeed toward all the conflict, contention and controversy that flared up amongst them, because Allah (Exalted is He) will remove it all from their midst on the Day of Resurrection.

As He has said (Almighty and Glorious is He):

And We shall strip away whatever rancor may be in their breasts. As brothers they shall be upon couches set face to face. (15:47)

Besides, from his own perspective, Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him) was in right in doing battle with them, because he was firmly convinced of the legitimate character of his leadership [imama]. As we have just explained, he had in fact been appointed to the Imamate and Caliphate by the general agreement of the group of Companions who had functioned as an electoral college [ahl al-hall wa’l-aqd]. (1)

Anyone who decided to back out of this at a later stage, and who actually took up arms against him, would of course be a rebel, a person in revolt against the [duly appointed] leader, so the leader would be quite justified in fighting him.

From the standpoint of those on the other side, notably Mu’awiya, Talha and az-Zubair, the battle against Ali was fought because they needed to avenge the death of Uthman, the rightful Caliph who had been wrongfully slain, and the men who killed him were soldiers in the army of Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him).


Thus everyone involved could come up with a credible justification [ta’wil]. As far as we ourselves are concerned, therefore, the best course is to adopt an attitude of strict neutrality toward this whole issue, and to leave the verdict in their case to Allah (almighty and Glorious is He), for He is the Wisest of judges [Ahkam al-hakimin] and the Best of deciders [Khair al-fasilin]. Our attention should be focused on the faults in our own selves, on the purification of our hearts from the root causes of sinful behavior [ummahat adh-dhunub],(2) and of our outer beings from things that pose serious threats to our welfare.


(1)   Literally, “the people authorized to loosen and to bind.”

(2)   Literally, “the mothers of sins.”

 


 
On The Caliphate Of Mu’awiya ibn Abi Sufyan.
 
 
As for the Caliphate of Mu’awiya ibn Abi Sufyan, it became validly established after the death of Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him), from the moment when al-Hasan ibn Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him and with his father) renounced his own right to the Caliphate and transferred it to Mu’awiya.

In addition to any personal reason he may have had, al-Hasan was motivated by his genuine concern for the common welfare, which he hoped to secure by sparing the Muslims any further bloodshed.

This also represented the actualization of something that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) had foretold, for he had once said about al-Hasan (may Allah be well pleased with him):


This [grand]son of mine is a chieftain [sayyid] who will be used by Allah (Exalted is He) as the agent of reconciliation between two enormously powerful factions.

Mu’awiya’s leadership [imama] was thus made completely legitimate by al-Hasan’s commitment to him. The year in which he succeeded to the Caliphate was called the Year of the Reunion [Am al-Jama’a], because it marked the cessation of discord among all members of the Islamic community, and their general agreement to follow the rule of Mu’awiya (may Allah be well pleased with him), since there was no third contender for the Caliphate.

An allusion to his Caliphate can actually be found in a saying of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace). According to a traditional report, the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) once said:

The mill [raha] of Islam will go on turning for five and thirty years, or for six and thirty, or for seven and thirty.

What is meant by “the mill” in this tradition is the vital energy in the religion [din]. As for the five years that are mentioned, over and above the thirty, they must belong to the Caliphate of Mu’awiya, which lasted for nineteen years and a few months all told, because the first period of thirty years was completed by Ali (may Allah be well pleased with him), as we have already explained earlier.
   
 
On The Special Respect Due To The Wives Of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), Who Are Regarded As The Mothers Of The Believers, And To His Daughter Fatima (may Allah be well pleased with her).


We hold a good opinion of all the wives of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace). We firmly believe that they are the Mothers of the Believers [ummahat al-Mu’minin], and that Aisha (may Allah be well pleased with her) is one of the most excellent women in the entire universe. Allah (Exalted is He) has declared her completely innocent of the charges brought against her by the renegades, as read [in the Quran] (1) and as people will go on reading until the Day of Judgment [Yawm ad-Din].


It is likewise true of Fatima, the daughter of our Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace, and may Allah the Exalted be well pleased with her, and with her husband and her children), that she is one of the most excellent women in the entire universe. It is incumbent upon us to regard her with loving care and affection, just as this is incumbent upon us with respect to her father (Allah bless him and give him peace).

As the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) has told us:

Fatima is a piece of me. I am troubled by anything that troubles her
. (2)



(1)   “They who spread the slander are a gang among you…..,” (23:11) and: “They are liars in the sight of Allah.” (23:13)

(2)   Fatimatu bid’ atun minni—yuribuni ma yuribuha.
 
On The Early Believers Who Are Mentioned and Commended by Allah (Exalted is He) In His Book.

 

 

These are the People of the Quran, meaning those whom Allah has mentioned and commended in His Book, for they are the earliest Emigrants [Muhajirun] and the Helpers [Ansar], who prayed toward both of the Qibla’s. (1) Allah (Exalted is He) has said concerning them:

Those who spent and fought before the victory [fath] are not on an equal level [with the rest of you]. Such are greater in rank than those who spent and fought afterwards, and unto each Allah has promised the reward most fair. (57:10)

Allah has promised such of you as believe and do good works that He will surely make them successors [la-yastakhlifannahum] (2) in the land, even as He made those who were before them successors [to the previous rulers]; and that He will surely establish for them their religion which He has approved for them, and will give them in exchange, after their fear, security (24:55)

Muhammed is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are hard against the unbelievers, merciful one to another. You see them bowing and falling prostrate [in worship], seeking bounty from Allah and good pleasure. Their mark is on their faces, the trace of prostration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel—as a seed that puts forth its shoot, and strengthens it, and it grows stout and rises straight upon its stalk, pleasing the sowers—that through them He may enrage the unbelievers. (48:29)

The following commentary on these words of Allah (almighty and Glorious is He) has been handed down to us from Ja’far ibn Muhammed [ibn Ali ibn al-Hussain ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib], who transmitted it on the authority of his father:

•   Muhammed is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him in hardship and in ease, in the cave [ghar] and the reed hut [arish] [This is an allusion to] Abu Bakr.

•   Hard against the unbelievers. [This is an allusion to] Umar Ibn al-Khattab.

•   Merciful one to another. [This is an allusion to] Uthman ibn Affan.

•   You see them bowing and falling prostrate [in worship].  [This is an allusion to] Ali ibn Abi Talib.

•   Seeking bounty from Allah and good pleasure. [This is an allusion to] Talha and az-Zubair, the two disciples [hawariya] (3) of Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace).

•   Their mark is on their faces, the trace of prostration. [This is an allusion to] Sa’d [ibn Abi Waqqas], Sa’id [ibn Zaid], Abd ar-Rahaman ibn Awf and Ubaida ibn al-Jarrah. These make up the ten [who received glad tidings of the promise of Paradise]. (4)

•   Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel—as a seed that puts forth its shoot. This is a reference to Muhammed (Allah bless him and give him peace).

•   And strengthens it by means of Abu Bakr.

•   And it grows stout by means of Umar.

•   And it rises straight upon its stalk by means of Uthman.

•   Pleasing the sowers by means of Ali ibn Abi Talib.

•   That through them—through the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace)—He may enrage the unbelievers.

 

(1)   The direction of Jerusalem was the first Qibla. According to tradition, it was in the second year of the Hijra, in Rajab or Sha’ban, that the Muslims were commanded to perform their ritual prayers [salat] thenceforth in the direction of the Sacred  Masjid [Masjid al-Haram] in  Makkah, which thus became the second and permanent Qibla.

(2)   The root of this Arabic verb is kh-l-f, from which the noun khalifa [successor;Caliph] and khilafa [succession;Caliphate] are also derived.

(3)   The term hawari is most often applied to a disciple of Jesus (peace be upon him).

(4)   Ashara ‘l-Mubashshara [“The ten who received glad tidings.”]


 


 
 
On The Correctness of Adopting a Neutral Attitude toward the Conflicts That Arose among the Companions (may Allah be well pleased with them all).
 
 

Those who remain faithful to the orthodox tradition of Islam [ahl as-Sunna] are in agreement concerning the necessity of suspending judgment on the issues over which the Companions (may Allah be well pleased with them all) came into conflict with one another, of adopting a neutral attitude toward their faults and failings, and of proclaiming their virtues and good qualities.

As we have already explained, whatever may have been the causes and consequences of the discord between Ali, on the one hand, and Talha, az-Zubair, Aisha and Mu’awiya on the other (may Allah be well pleased with them all), it is now agreed that the verdict on their conduct should be left to Allah (Almighty and Glorious is He), and that each should be given credit where credit is due.

As Allah (Almighty and Glorious is He) has said:

And as for those who came after them, they say: “Our Lord, forgive us and our brothers who were before us in the faith, and do not lodge in our hearts any rancor toward those who believe. Our Lord, You are the All-Gentle [ar-Ra’uf], the All-Compassionate [ar-Rahim].” (59:10)

That is a community [umma] that has passed away. To their credit is that which they have earned, and to your credit is that which you have earned. And you will not be questioned concerning the things they used to do. (2:134 & 2:141)

The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) is reported as having said:

When things are said about my Companions, refrain from passing judgment.

In another version of this traditional report, the words attributed to him (Allah bless him and give him peace) are:

Beware of [passing judgment on] the conflicts that flare up among my Companions, for, even if one of you were to contribute his own weight in gold, it would not equal the measure of one of them, nor would it amount to half as much.

He also said (Allah bless him and give him peace):

Good betide anyone who has seen me, and anyone who has seen someone who has seen me!

Do not revile my Companions. If anyone does revile them, may the curse of Allah be upon him!

According to the traditional account [riwaya] of Anas ibn Malik (may Allah be well pleased with him), he also said (Allah bless him and give him peace):

Allah (Almighty and Glorious is He) has chosen me, and He has chosen my Companions for me, for He has made them my Helpers [ansari] and He has made them my relatives by marriage [ashari]. At the end of the age, there will emerge a set of people who will try to belittle them.

On no account should you eat in the company of such people. On no account should you drink in their company. On no account should you marry into their families. On no account should you perform the ritual prayers together with them. On no account should you pray for them. May the curse [of Allah] alight upon them!

As reported by Jabir (may Allah be well pleased with him), Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) once said:

Not one of those who made the pledge of allegiance beneath the tree will enter the Fire of Hell.

As reported by Abu Huraira (may Allah be well pleased with him), Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) also said:

Allah beheld the people [who fought in the battle] of Badr, and He said: “O people of Badr, do whatever you will, for I have already forgiven you!”

Ibn Umar  (may Allah be well pleased with him and with his father) reported that Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) once said:

My Companions are just like the stars, so take the word of any one of them and you will be guided aright.

According to yet another traditional report, this one transmitted by Ibn Buraida on the authority of his father (may Allah be well pleased with him), the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) once said:

If one of my Companions should happen to die in a particular country, he will be appointed as an intercessor [shafi] on behalf of the people of that country.

Sufyan ibn Uyaina (may Allah bestow His mercy upon him) has said:

“If anyone has a bad word to say about the Companions of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), he must be the follower of a heretical sect.”



 


 
 
On The Distinctive Features of the Various Sects Responsible for the Introduction of Heretical Innovations [ahl al-bida].

 

You need to be aware that the various sects responsible for the introduction of heretical innovations [ahl al-bida] have distinctive features by which they can be recognized.

The distinctive feature of the proponents of a particular heretical innovation can be identified by noting the term of contempt by which they choose to misrepresent the loyal followers of the Tradition [ahl al-Athar].

In the case of the Freethinkers  [Zanadiqa]. It is the fact that they refer to the followers of the Tradition as the “Trash Collectors” [Hashwiyya], and that they would like to see the traditions [athar] dismissed as completely worthless.

The distinctive feature of the Qadariyya is the fact that they refer to the followers of the Tradition as “Compulsives” [Mujbara].

In the case of the Jahmiyya it is the fact that they refer to the followers of the Tradition as “Anthropomorphists” [Mushabbiha].

The distinctivefeature of the Rafida is the fact that they refer to the loyal followers of the Tradition as “Schismatics” [Nasabiyya].

None of this represents anything more than fanatical bigotry [‘asabiyya] and fierce animosity toward the loyal followers of the Sunna, who are properly designated by one term only, and that is Ashab al-Hadith [Adherents of the Tradition of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace)].

The proponents of heretical innovations may try to affix their own labels to them, but they simply will not stick, just as the unbelievers [kuffar] of  Makkah failed to make their labels stick to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace). They called him a sorcerer [sahir], a poet [sha’ir], a man possessed by the jinn [majnun], a person under a spell [maftun], and a fortuneteller [kahin], but he had only one proper appellation in the sight of Allah, in the sight of His angels, and in the sight of His human beings, his jinn, and all the rest of His creatures. That proper appellation of his was Prophetic Messenger [Rasul Nabi] free from all defects.

Behold, how they coin similitudes for you, and so they go astray, and cannot find a path! (17:48)

Allahumma Ehdenus Siratal Mustaqim!!!

 

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It is narrated on the authority of Abu Abdullah Jafar Al-Sadiq: A miserable of the miserables came to Fatima, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah, and said to her: “Did you not know that Ali proposed to marry (Khataba) the daughter of Abu Jahl?” She said: “Is it true what you say? He said three times: “What I say is true.” Jealousy entered into her (heart) to an extent she could not control, for Allah has ordained that women be jealous and that men perform Jihad, and He has made the reward of the patient (woman) similar to that of the Murabit and Muhajir in the way of Allah.

He said: And Fatima’s anguish became severe and she remained thinking about it until night time…she moved to her father’s residence. Ali came to his residence and did not see Fatima and his anguish increased and became great on him, even though he did not know what happened, and he was ashamed to call her from her father’s house so he went to the Masjid and prayed as much as Allah willed, and he collected some of the sand in the Masjid and laid on it.

 

 

 

(bismillah)

 

 

 

Ali Did not propose to the Daughter of Abu Jahl.

 

___________

 

 

 

This Narration is Not Authentic Among us Shia'e:

 

Shaykh Seduq records in Amali, ( امالي الصدوق) page 165:

 

Imam Jafar al-Sadiq said: ‘….Didn’t they claim that the Master of the believers was seeking (worldly) life and government and he preferred fitna over peace, and he shed the blood of the Muslims without basis, and if he (Ali) was carrying benefit they would not ask Khalid bin al-Walid to assassinate him? Didn’t they claim that he (Ali) wanted to marry Abu Jahl’s daughter over Fatima and then Allah’s messenger complained of him to the Muslims on the pulpit and said: ‘Ali wants to marry the daughter of Allah’s enemy over the daughter of Allah’s Prophet, surely Fatima is part of me, whoever hurts her hurts me, whoever made her happy made me happy, whoever disturbs her disturbs me.’ (Imam Jafar continues) Oh Alqamah how strange are the claims of the people about Ali !’. 

 

 

 

We take a look at the Reference you have Given Us:

 

 

 

 pp.185-186, Al-Najaf Print; also narrated in Majlisi “Bihar” 43/201-202)

 

 

(1) The Man Told Fatima (a.s) and not Ali.

(2) Ali did not say: " I have proposed Bint Abu Jahl.

(3) The Marriage Of Ali and Fatima Is an Order from Allah, So If the Marriage of Ali (a.s) was an Order from Allah, how can he propose? We read in Kanz Al-Amal volume 1, page 606:

 

 
 

The prophet Peace be Upon him said: "O Anas!, Do you know what Jabra'ail Came to me With from the Sahib al Arsh (meaning Allah), said: "That Allah has Ordered me to give Fatima In Marriage to Ali." Said: " I was with the prophet (s), so Angle (Wahi) sensed and when he Disappeare", said: I remembered him." 

 

 

 
post-83202-0-07971800-1382738904_thumb.jpost-83202-0-85884000-1383838252_thumb.jpost-83202-0-76640100-1383838254_thumb.j

________

The Narration in Sunni Sources is Only narrated from One Person, and not even Mutwartir, So if the Proposed Should't it be Narrated more than One person?

 

 

 

(1) This is a Sunni-Shia Dialogue Thread.

(2) You have copied and Pasted a Long Article with No Sources What So ever.

(3) You assume that Its Correct, When It Praises the people you have no Knowledge of.

_____________

(wasalam)  

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(1) The prophet Peace be Upon him said: "O Anas!, Do you know what Jabra'ail Came to me With from the Sahib al Arsh (meaning Allah), said: "That Allah has Ordered me to give Fatima In Marriage to Ali." Said: " I was with the prophet (s), so Angle (Wahi) sensed and when he Disappeare", said: I remembered him."

 

(2) This is a Sunni-Shia Dialogue Thread.

(2) You have copied and Pasted a Long Article with No Sources What So ever.

(3) You assume that Its Correct, When It Praises the people you have no Knowledge of.

_____________

(wasalam)  

 

(2)  I know it is a Sunni-Shia dialogue thread so keep it civil.  If you bring obscure narrations and play the copy-paste game, then do bear in mind that "two can play that game." 

 

(3)  The pot calling the kettle black!  As for the source, it is right there for you.

 

(4)  Whatever that means.

 

(1)  I saved the first point for last for lasting effect.  You said, "The Marriage Of Ali and Fatima Is an Order from Allah, So If the Marriage of Ali (a.s) was an Order from Allah, how can he propose?"  Well then, did Ali (ra) not marry Khawlah bin Ja'far from Banu Hanifah tribe?  When the people of Yamamah accepted apostasy for not paying zakat, Abu Bakr (ra) declared war on them (since he was the Khalifah).  And Imam Ali (ra) took part in that war, on the side of Abu Bakr (ra).  If Abu Bakr (ra) angered Fatima (ra), why would Ali (ra) stand and fight under his banner?  If you are still in denial, then tell me about Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiyah (son of Ali ra and Khawlah).

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(2)  I know it is a Sunni-Shia dialogue thread so keep it civil.  If you bring obscure narrations and playarrow-10x10.png the copy-paste game, then do bear in mind that "two can play that game." 

 

 

I was not referring to you on that Statement I was Referring to the Person Above you.

 

 

 

 

(3)  The pot calling the kettle black!  As for the source, it is right there for you.

 

 

Where does it say that Ali him self Went and Proposed? Ali did not say this. Use your logic and to us the following is Rejected and I mentioned a Source above.

 

 

 

 

 

 
(1)  I saved the first point for last for lasting effect.  You said, "The Marriagearrow-10x10.png Of Ali and Fatima Is an Order from Allah, So If the Marriage of Ali (a.s) was an Order from Allah, how can he propose?"  Well then, did Ali  (ra) not marry Khawlah bin Ja'far from Banu Hanifah tribe?  When the people of Yamamah accepted apostasy for not paying zakat, Abu Bakr  (ra) declared war on them (since he was the Khalifah).  And Imam Ali  (ra)took part in that war, on the side of Abu Bakr  (ra).  If Abu Bakr  (ra) angered Fatima  (ra), why would Ali  (ra) stand and fight under his bannerarrow-10x10.png?  If you are still in denial, then tell me about Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiyah (son of Ali ra and Khawlah).

 

(1) Ali did not Marry Any one Before and while he was With Fatima (a.s).

(2) In the Time During the Caliphate of Abu bakr, Ali (a.s) did not fight nor Participate in any war with Abu Bakr. If you Believe so Provide Evidence of this.

(wasalam) 

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What do Shias really think about Abu Bakar??? Well, we take him as he really was. What ever his character, performance and achievement was about, that is exactly how we take him. Nothing more and nothing less. What you have in those authentic books, that is exactly how we take him. If there is any disappointment about anything then, blame the books or yourself, for labelling those books authentic.

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(1) Ali did not Marry Any one Before and while he was With Fatima (a.s).

(2) In the Time During the Caliphate of Abu bakr, Ali (a.s) did not fight nor Participate in any war with Abu Bakr. If you Believe so Provide Evidence of this.

 

 

(1)  Fair enough!

(2)  Then explain Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiya!  Was he not Imam Ali's (ra) son?  If yes, then how did he come into being?  He came into being because Ali (ra) took part in the battle against apostates of Yamamah - UNDER THE BANNER OF ABU BAKR (ra) - and then took Khawlah as his wife.

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(1) Fair enough!

(2) Then explain Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiya! Was he not Imam Ali's (ra) son? If yes, then how did he come into being? He came into being because Ali (ra) took part in the battle against apostates of Yamamah - UNDER THE BANNER OF ABU BAKR (ra) - and then took Khawlah as his wife.

Ok, so are you going to provide a reference for this to back your claim???

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(1)  Fair enough!

(2)  Then explain Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiya!  Was he not Imam Ali's (ra) son?  If yes, then how did he come into being?  He came into being because Ali (ra) took part in the battle against apostates of Yamamah - UNDER THE BANNER OF ABU BAKR (ra) - and then took Khawlah as his wife.

 

 

(1) If so is True, the Marriage Never took place in the time of Fatima, If after Fatima I have no problem, But Before Fatima that would be Impossible.

(2) After the death of the prophet Ali (a.s) Never Participated In any war, can you provide evidence if so from our narration of this? Brother Are you not aware hat during the Caliphate of Abu bakr Ali did not Participate in any war?

  

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In Nahjul Balagha, you will find two occasions during which Ali (ra) advised Umar (ra) during battles for the conquest of Byzantine and Persia.  Also, Khawlah was given to Ali (ra) by Abu Bakr (ra) when she was brought by Khalid ibn Waleed (ra) as a war captive.  So his physical partaking may not have happened but Ali (ra) served as an advisor and someone who took from the "booty of war". 

 

Nevertheless, I only have one last post left so this is it for me for a few days (until I'm allowed to post more).

 

Salam alaykum!

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In Nahjul Balagha, you will find two occasions during which Ali (ra) advised Umar (ra) during battles for the conquest of Byzantine and Persia. Also, Khawlah was given to Ali (ra) by Abu Bakr (ra) when she was brought by Khalid ibn Waleed (ra) as a war captive. So his physical partaking may not have happened but Ali (ra) served as an advisor and someone who took from the "booty of war".

Nevertheless, I only have one last post left so this is it for me for a few days (until I'm allowed to post more).

Salam alaykum!

So where exactly in Nehjul Balagha is this??? Would you kindly point it out.

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This Hajj trip I visited Masjid an-Nabawi and realized that even in death the Prophet (SAAW) is lonely.

 

His "friends" are buried beside him for political reasons while his most beloved family members are buried in Jannatul Baqi, where no one can visit, or even glance at them.  

 

If that doesn't break your heart. Then you don't have one. 

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In Nahjul Balagha, you will find two occasions during which Ali (ra) advised Umar (ra) during battles for the conquest of Byzantine and Persia.  Also, Khawlah was given to Ali (ra) by Abu Bakr (ra) when she was brought by Khalid ibn Waleed (ra) as a war captive.  So his physical partaking may not have happened but Ali (ra) served as an advisor and someone who took from the "booty of war". 

 

Nevertheless, I only have one last post left so this is it for me for a few days (until I'm allowed to post more).

 

Salam alaykum!

 

 

He Imam Ali (a.s)  Advise him "Not" to go Battle, its in the same Speech in Nahjul Balagha so what makes you think he Participated in them? from 

I have seen no Proof from you so far brother.

So where exactly in Nehjul Balagha is this??? Would you kindly point it out.

 

 

He has no proof really, It is Only when Ali is advising Umar not to go to War.The Irony is what makes him think that ALi would Participate in it.

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He Imam Ali (a.s)  Advise him "Not" to go Battle, its in the same Speech in Nahjul Balagha so what makes you think he Participated in them? from 

I have seen no Proof from you so far brother.

He has no proof really, It is Only when Ali is advising Umar not to go to War.The Irony is what makes him think that ALi would Participate in it.

 

The Quran says that it is not good for the believers that they ALL go to war, some should stay. Ali was one of their judge and advisor on religious and political issues. This is same as going to a battlefield. His sons Hussain and Hassan and the members of Ahlulbayt they all participated in conquests during the rule of the rightly guided caliphs. 

 

muslim720

 

Brother I appreciate your patience with IslamsHistory and his other friend. 

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The Quran says that it is not good for the believers that they ALL go to war, some should stay. Ali was one of their judge and advisor on religious and political issues. This is same as going to a battlefield. His sons Hussain and Hassan and the members of Ahlulbayt they all participated in conquests during the rule of the rightly guided caliphs. 

 

muslim720

 

Brother I appreciate your patience with IslamsHistory and his other friend. 

 

 

(1) First of all the Religion Caliphate and the Political Caliphate Issue is a false Concept and I talked about it in Uli al amr so if you wish refer back there. And No doubt they needed Ali (a.s) for they would have perished without him, And not my dear brother the Ahlulbayt (a.s) Never not once Participate in the Wars those Caliphs Brought upon the Ummah, Umar only went to Ahlulbayt (a.s) when he was facing Trouble and Calamity. It makes you think on Who should be caliph.

(2) If you think he is being Patient, Revise The Argument at "Imam Ali (a.s) higher than the previous Prophet" post and see how much posts he Ignores.

Use your logic.

________

(wasalam)   

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The Quran says that it is not good for the believers that they ALL go to war, some should stay. Ali was one of their judge and advisor on religious and political issues. This is same as going to a battlefield. His sons Hussain and Hassan and the members of Ahlulbayt they all participated in conquests during the rule of the rightly guided caliphs.

muslim720

Brother I appreciate your patience with IslamsHistory and his other friend.

Being appointed as a judge and advisor is one thing. Seeking refuge and help in critical situations and extreme difficulty from Hazrath Ali (as) is another. All the battles and wars the Khulafaa-e-Salaasa fought, can you put the reasons forward for them??? Give me just one battle that Hazrath Ali (as) took part in or fought alongside, anyone of the first three Khalifs???

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Being appointed as a judge and advisor is one thing. Seeking refuge and help in critical situations and extreme difficulty from Hazrath Ali (as) is another. All the battles and wars the Khulafaa-e-Salaasa fought, can you put the reasons forward for them??? Give me just one battle that Hazrath Ali (as) took part in or fought alongside, anyone of the first three Khalifs???

 

I Honestly thought They were joking when they mentioned Such statement.....I don't know where they been getting such Information from...Strange. 

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The Quran says that it is not good for the believers that they ALL go to war, some should stay. Ali was one of their judge and advisor on religious and political issues. This is same as going to a battlefield. His sons Hussain and Hassan and the members of Ahlulbayt they all participated in conquests during the rule of the rightly guided caliphs.

muslim720

Brother I appreciate your patience with IslamsHistory and his other friend.

Can you provide clear references, for what you have said??? Just like brother Islam History??? It's not too much to ask for, if you want me to believe what you say.

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Abu Bakr (maghpihiatrpbijdkbtasnmcbhwoacmjk?)

was the 1st caliph voted into office during an event called saqifa

didnt really do much as he died within, what? 2 years?

Selected his next Caliph (not by vote this time, rather by appointment) to be Umar al-Kittab (maghpihiatrpbijdkbtasnmcbhwoacmjk?)

 

Vs.

 

Imam Ali (A.S)

is the first divinely chosen mawla/wali ("leader/Imam") of the muslims.

Refer to the event of Ghadeer + occasions where the Prophet (saws) numerously mentions talks about his successorship and the caliph of all believers after him (the prophet), both in sunni and shia books of hadith. 

Served as an advisor to the first 3 caliphs (RA), (several occasions where Umar al-khattib (maghpihiatrpbijdkbtasnmcbhwoacmjk?)) would mention that without imam ali (a.s) he would be doomed)

 

 

So, what do I think of abu-bakr (maghpihiatrpbijdkbtasnmcbhwoacmjk?): He's a'ight

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He Imam Ali (a.s)  Advise him "Not" to go Battle, its in the same Speech in Nahjul Balagha so what makes you think he Participated in them? from 

I have seen no Proof from you so far brother.

 

 

He has no proof really, It is Only when Ali is advising Umar not to go to War.The Irony is what makes him think that ALi would Participate in it.

 

Exactly, as I said in a previous post, Ali (ra) did not take part in the physical sense of word but he served as an advisor to all 3 Caliphs (ra) before him.  He even received a share of "booty of war" from the Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra).  Surely if he did not want to be on the side of the first 3 Caliphs (ra), Ali (ra) could have at least refused to take from the spoils of war.  As for Uthman (ra), let us not forget that Ali (ra) sent Hassanain (ra) to protect the Caliph from those who wished to murder him.

 

 

 

 

muslim720

 

Brother I appreciate your patience with IslamsHistory and his other friend.

 

JazakAllah khair for the observation.  I am trying to get our brother to contemplate over what he copies and pastes without much thought and reflection.

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Exactly, as I said in a previous post, Ali  (ra) did not take part in the physical sense of word but he served as an advisor to all 3 Caliphs  (ra) before him.  He even received a share of "booty of war" from the Abu Bakr  (ra) and Umar  (ra).  Surely if he did not want to be on the side of the first 3 Caliphs  (ra), Ali  (ra) could have at least refused to take from the spoils of war.  As for Uthman  (ra), let us not forget that Ali  (ra) sent Hassanain  (ra) to protect the Caliph from those who wished to murder him.

 

 

(1) And How am I disagreeing with this, that is what I meant, he did not Participate with any form of Warfare Produced or Commanded by the Three Caliphs.

(2) When Did Imam Ali (a.s) send Imam Hussain (a.s) and Hassan (a.s) to protect the Caliphate of others? What time period of History is this?

(3) Imam Ali (a.s) has never Stood on their sides, Advising someone to go to war to protect the Ummah, and Advising him for the sake of his Own life, because you think his along his side are two Separate things.

____________

(wasalam)  

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(1) And How am I disagreeing with this, that is what I meant, he did not Participate with any form of Warfare Produced or Commanded by the Three Caliphs.

(2) When Did Imam Ali (a.s) send Imam Hussain (a.s) and Hassan (a.s) to protect the Caliphate of others? What time period of History is this?

(3) Imam Ali (a.s) has never Stood on their sides, Advising someone to go to war to protect the Ummah, and Advising him for the sake of his Own life, because you think his along his side are two Separate things.

____________

(wasalam)  

 

(1)  See, now you are making Imam Ali [ra] look bad while you claim to love him.  First, you believe that his wife [ra] was attacked and he [ra] did nothing.  Now you are saying that he [ra] never assisted the three Caliphs [ra] before him but he [ra] advised them and accepted spoils of war without hesitation.  Do you know what you are making Imam Ali [ra] out to be? 

 

(2)  Since you quoted Tarikh Dimashq to strengthen your point, let us see if you will take this one.

 

When Ali [ra] heard that extremist members of his own party were plotting the murder of the Caliph, he immediately dispatched his own son to defend Uthman [ra]. Ali [ra] sent a letter to Uthman [ra], “I have 500 men, so give me the permission to defend you from these people, otherwise things would happen that they would kill you.”  Uthman [ra] answered, “May Allah reward you for your good intentions, but I do not want blood to be shed for my cause.” [Tareekh Damascus, p.403]

 

The same is mentioned in a Shia book labeled Muruj az-Zahab (2/270) written by Shia historian al-Masoodi.

"And when it was reached to Ali that they want to kill him (Usman), he sent his sons al-Hasan and al-Husain with freed slave with their weapons to his doors to help him.  And he ordered them (sons) to prevent them (murders). And Zubair sent his son Abdullah, and Talha sent his son Muhammad, AND MAJORITY OF SONS OF COMPANIONS WERE SENT BY THEIR FATHERS TO OBEY REGARDING WHAT WE MENTIONED.

 

(after the murder of Usman, Ali) said to his sons: “How Commander of Faithful was murdered when you were (protecting him) on (his) door?” He slapped Hasan, beaten Husayn on his chest, abused Muhammad ibn Talha and cursed Abdullah ibn Zubair. Talha said to him: Don’t beat o Abul Hasan, don’t abuse and don’t curse. If he would give them Marwan, he wouldn’t be killed”.

 

(3)  Do you know that when the narration about Ali [ra] advising Umar [ra] comes up, Shias take multiple stances.  When it benefits them, they say, "oh look, Imam Ali had such tremendous insight that he prevented Umar from going to the forefront of the battlefield so as to prevent the Caliph from being murdered."  And when the other side benefits them, they say, "oh, Imam Ali only advised him to protect ummah because if the Caliph would have perished, then the enemies of Islam would have launched an all-out offense on the ummah."  The former stance insinuates that Ali [ra] was better than Umar [ra]; the latter stance insinuates that Ali [ra] advised Umar [ra] to protect the ummah, not Umar [ra].  I am not surprised because depending on where a debate is, our Shia brothers take one stance over the other to their liking so as to not be cornered.  But truth is that Ali [ra] advised Umar [ra].  He was one of Umar's [ra] advisors and he accepted spoils of war, namely money and Khawlah bint Ja'far.

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(1)  See, now you are making Imam Ali [ra] look bad while you claim to love him.  First, you believe that his wife [ra] was attacked and he [ra] did nothing.  Now you are saying that he [ra] never assisted the three Caliphs [ra] before him but he [ra] advised them and accepted spoils of war without hesitation.  Do you know what you are making Imam Ali [ra] out to be? 

 

 

(1) How have I made him look bad? There is not Relation with him and Umar, and yet you deem to Love umar and ignore that facts of the broken Ribs of Fatima (a.s)? Do you know why he did not Accept to give Allegiance for more the six months? And Where is the grave of Fatima'at al Zahraa (a.s)? Where is its location do you even know? Why did they not Attend her Burial? Why did they not attend the Burial of the prophet (s)? If your going to Manipulate my words and make illogical sense out of this argument, I advise you reread your history.

_______________

 

 

 

)  Since you quoted Tarikh Dimashq to strengthen your point, let us see if you will take this one.

 

When Ali [ra] heard that extremist members of his own party were plotting the murder of the Caliph, he immediately dispatched his own son to defend Uthman [ra]. Ali [ra] sent a letter to Uthman [ra], “I have 500 men, so give me the permission to defend you from these people, otherwise things would happen that they would kill you.”  Uthman [ra] answered, “May Allah reward you for your good intentions, but I do not want blood to be shed for my cause.” [Tareekh Damascus, p.403]

 

(1) Since you did not mentioned a Specific volume I am going to assume its volume 1, and in volume it does not go up to 403 pages? And What Publish are you quoting from ? In Tareekh al Dimshaqi nothing is 100% Authentic what I mentioned was, you can check the Rijal if you prefer, However I am not ignorant of this issue, I very well known they Defended at the very door, But not for his sake, but for the sake of the Nations and the Circumstances, But if your using that to Authenticate their Loyalty to the Caliphs I Disagree Comparing the history of crimes they have.

____________

 

 

 

 

(3)  Do you know that when the narration about Ali [ra] advising Umar [ra] comes up, Shias take multiple stances.  When it benefits them, they say, "oh look, Imam Ali had such tremendous insight that he prevented Umar from going to the forefront of the battlefield so as to prevent the Caliph from being murdered."  And when the other side benefits them, they say, "oh, Imam Ali only advised him to protect ummah because if the Caliph would have perished, then the enemies of Islam would have launched an all-out offense on the ummah."  The former stance insinuates that Ali [ra] was better than Umar [ra]; the latter stance insinuates that Ali [ra] advised Umar [ra] to protect the ummah, not Umar [ra].  I am not surprised because depending on where a debate is, our Shia brothers take one stance over the other to their liking so as to not be cornered.  But truth is that Ali [ra] advised Umar [ra].  He was one of Umar's [ra] advisors and he accepted spoils of war, namely money and Khawlah bint Ja'far.

 

 

 Firs of all on your whole false conclusion that Imam Ali (a.s) showed Loyalty to Umar is absurd, Since Umar history shows how Illogical he was when trying to guide the Ummah, and I do not ignore that he sought Help from Ahlulbayt (a.s) many times, but how does this Support your stance of the three caliphs, that they are the caliphs of our time? if they were true Caliphs appointed by the prophet (s) and Allah, why would they need the support of Ahlulbayt (a.s) Our issue is on who is the Caliph and not whether who loves who, Do you expect for Imam Ali (a.s) to stand and do nothing and let Umar Plan wars on his own? of course his going to intervene to save the Ummah from Chaotic Disasters of what the wars have produced, and this does not show any Friendship between him and Umar, nor abu bakr, They both has Violated the orders of the prophet (s) and have oppressed Ahlulbayt (a.s) most Significantly. Imam Ali (a.s) was not an Official Advisory, he did not live in the castle of Umar at all, only when he was need during the calamities that came to Umar.

    

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Brother Muslim 720, let me ask you one simple question, according to history books companions like Hazrath Ali, Hazrath Ammar, Hazrath Miqdad, Hazrath Abu Zarr, Hazrath Salmaan and many more, were not present at Sakeefa and were not part of the gathering and meeting at Sakeefa and they severly opposed the decision that, was made in Sakeefa and refused to accept Hazrath Abu Bakar as Khalifaa and did not give bayath to him. Now do you believe that threatening behaviour and extreme force was used against these companions, to get them to accept the decision made in Sakeefa??? Was violence used by the Shaikhain on those companions, who objected and rejected, the decision made in sakeefa, to such an extent that, Hazrath Fatimah (as) was ignored to such a level that she got injured???

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Salam to all brothers of Islam

I would like to know that why the Shia Muslims never ever gave the names of ABU BAKR, UMAR and USMAN to their kids when they are born.... Can anyone give a simple and short answer..... JAZAK Allah KHAIR

regards

Absolutely. It was the change of attitude and behaviour, of these three, towards the Ahlul Baith, after the demise of the Prophet (pbuh).

How the three mistreated and neglected the Ahlul Baith. You wanted a simple and straight forward answer, well there you have it.

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Salam brother AMEEN , if that's the principle.... Than why HAZRAT ALI AS kept the names of his son as ABU BAKR , UMAR and USMAN.... HAZRAT ALI AS had 18 sons and out of them the name of three were Abu bakr, umar and usman..... Similarly IMAM ZAIN UL ABUDEEN AS had 6 or 7 sons and he named two as ABU BAKR and UMAR..... IMAM HASSAN AS had a son with the name of Abu bakr.... Even the great grand children of IMAM ZAIN UL ABIDEEN were named ABU BAKR UMAR and USMAN..... I m sorry brother AMEEN ..... I don't agree with u on this..... If they mistreated ahal e bayt than how come the imams of ahal e bayt keep the names of their sons as Abu bakr , umar and usman..... It means ur logic is wrong brother AMEEN.... Even IMAM ALI RAZA AS had only 5 sons and one daughter and he named her Ayesha ..... IMAM HASSAN ASKARI AS had 4 sons and only one daughter and he named her Ayesha as well.... IMAM ALI NAQI AS also named his daughter Ayesha..... similarly BIBI ZAINAB SA was married to ABDULLAH bin jaffar Tayyar and had a son named Abu bakr.... I m sorry brother AMEEN.... Ur logic is absolutely not understandable.... I think it was other was around.... These days Shia brothers don't give their kids the names of Abu bakr umar and usman..... But in the past during the 300 hundred years of the imams always kept the names of their sons ABU bakr and usman and Ayesha..... Interesting thing for all my brothers is " WHY HAZRAT ALI AS and other IMAMS never choose the names like yazeed, muawiya, shimar, Abu sufiya, Abu jahal, ibn ziyad for their kids which was HAQ and why IMAM ALI AS and other IMAMS choose the names like Abu bakr , umar , USMAN and Ayesha for their kids is a sign for everyone.... No one likes to give names to their kids of people who have annoyed them.... Killed their parents... Insulted aur abused them.... Remember ALL BROTHERS OF ISLAM NAMES ARE ALWAYS KEPT OUT OF LOVE AND AFFECTION....

JAZAK Allah KHAIR

Just to clarify if some one mis understands I said in above quote that HAZRAT ALI AS and other IMAMS did not choose the names like yazeed, muawiya, shimar , ibn ziyad, Abu sufiyan etc for their kids which was HAQ ... Here I m trying to say that they did the right thing by not giving/choosing these names for their kids....

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Salam brother AMEEN , if that's the principle.... Than why HAZRAT ALI AS kept the names of his son as ABU BAKR , UMAR and USMAN.... HAZRAT ALI AS had 18 sons and out of them the name of three were Abu bakr, umar and usman..... Similarly IMAM ZAIN UL ABUDEEN AS had 6 or 7 sons and he named two as ABU BAKR and UMAR..... IMAM HASSAN AS had a son with the name of Abu bakr.... Even the great grand children of IMAM ZAIN UL ABIDEEN were named ABU BAKR UMAR and USMAN..... I m sorry brother AMEEN ..... I don't agree with u on this..... If they mistreated ahal e bayt than how come the imams of ahal e bayt keep the names of their sons as Abu bakr , umar and usman..... It means ur logic is wrong brother AMEEN.... Even IMAM ALI RAZA AS had only 5 sons and one daughter and he named her Ayesha ..... IMAM HASSAN ASKARI AS had 4 sons and only one daughter and he named her Ayesha as well.... IMAM ALI NAQI AS also named his daughter Ayesha..... similarly BIBI ZAINAB SA was married to ABDULLAH bin jaffar Tayyar and had a son named Abu bakr.... I m sorry brother AMEEN.... Ur logic is absolutely not understandable.... I think it was other was around.... These days Shia brothers don't give their kids the names of Abu bakr umar and usman..... But in the past during the 300 hundred years of the imams always kept the names of their sons ABU bakr and usman and Ayesha..... Interesting thing for all my brothers is " WHY HAZRAT ALI AS and other IMAMS never choose the names like yazeed, muawiya, shimar, Abu sufiya, Abu jahal, ibn ziyad for their kids which was HAQ and why IMAM ALI AS and other IMAMS choose the names like Abu bakr , umar , USMAN and Ayesha for their kids is a sign for everyone.... No one likes to give names to their kids of people who have annoyed them.... Killed their parents... Insulted aur abused them.... Remember ALL BROTHERS OF ISLAM NAMES ARE ALWAYS KEPT OUT OF LOVE AND AFFECTION....

JAZAK Allah KHAIR

Just to clarify if some one mis understands I said in above quote that HAZRAT ALI AS and other IMAMS did not choose the names like yazeed, muawiya, shimar , ibn ziyad, Abu sufiyan etc for their kids which was HAQ ... Here I m trying to say that they did the right thing by not giving/choosing these names for their kids....

Salaam brother. Very interesting information you've put forward there. I'm very keen to know more about this. Would you be kind enough to provide me with references, so i could check them up and look into them.

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Thanks brother ameen

I am neither an expert nor a scholar

I m simple guy of ordinary jurisprudence

Although I have one hobby

I like collecting Hadith in the merit of mola e KAINAT

Imam ALI IBN e ABI TALIB SHER KHUDA mushkil khush as and

SYEDA KAINAT sa and HUSSNAIN KAREEMAIN as.... And I send them

To people via text and any other means or verbally....

I have a few requests, if u consider them than it will be great

1) we both should look for references

2) I don't want any harsh discussion on the children of the IMAMS as for me

It would be amounting to disgrace HAZRAT ALI AS and

BIBI FATHIMA SA.....

3) if people start fighting on the names of children of ahal e bayt after this post....

Ill probably feel guilty as that would amount to insulting the IMAMS of ahal e bayt if we start saying this is the name

Or that is the name...

4) I have got Shia references for this only.... Is that ok brother AMEEN????

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