Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Islamic Salvation

Al-Qasim Bin Ismail - The Liar?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

al-Qasim bin Ismail is an integral Waqifi narrator for some Usuls of the Ashab [notebooks of Ahadith from the Imams], these he narrated to his formemost student - the famous Waqifi Shaykh of al-Kulayni - Humayd bin Ziyad, and secondarily to another Waqifi Ali bin Muhammad bin Rabah and his brother Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Rabah.

I first ran across him when I say this Riwayah in the Ghaybah of al-Tusi which paints him as a liar.

وروى أبو علي محمد بن همام، عن علي بن رباح، قال: سألت القاسم بن إسماعيل القرشي وكان ممطورا: أي شئ سمعت من محمد بن أبي حمزة؟ قال: ما سمعت منه إلا حديثا واحدا، قال ابن رباح: ثم أخرج بعد ذلك حديثا كثيرا، فرواه عن محمد ابن أبي حمزة، قال ابن رباح: وسألت القاسم هذا: كم سمعت من حنان؟ قال: أربعة أحاديث أو خمسة، قال: ثم أخرج بعد ذلك حديثا كثيرا فرواه عنه

And narrated Abu Ali Muhammad bin Hammam from Ali bin Rabah who said: I asked al-Qasim bin Ismail al-Qarashiy and he was a Mamtura - what did you hear from Muhammad bin Abi Hamza? he (al-Qasim) said: I did not hear from him except a single Hadith, and Ibn Rabah said: then after that he came out with many Ahadith which he narrated from Muhammad bin Abi Hamza, and Ibn Rabah said: and I asked this al-Qasim: how much did you hear from Hannan? he (al-Qasim) said: four Ahadith or five, he (Ibn Rabah) said: then he came out with many Ahadith narrated on his (Hanan's) authority.

In the above Riwayah, Ibn Rabah claims that al-Qasim bin Ismail would fabricate narrations on the authority of Muhammad bin Abi Hamza and Hannan - from whom he did not hear alot of narrations.

The only brief and terse entry about al-Qasim in our works is found in Rijal Tusi, who says about him

يكنى أبا محمد المنذر، روى عنه حميد بن زياد أصولا كثيرة

al-Qasim bin Ismail al-Qarashiy: his Kuniyyah is Abu Muhammad al-Mundhir, Humayd bin Ziyad narrated alot of Usul from him.

Willing to investigate further, I turned to the two Fihrists of al-Najashi and al-Tusi to see whether there are any peculiarities in the Usul transmission chains which he partakes in which can come to the fore to support this claim.

It is important to mention at this junction, and as an introductory point that Humayd is in Tabaqah 8 [for those Rijalists who start with al-Kulayni at Tabaqah no. 9], this being the case al-Qasim should be in Tabaqah 7.

Anyone who has studied our main Asanid works knows that the younger Ashab of Aba Abdillah al-Sadiq are in Tabaqah 5.

Now to begin from Najashi's Fihrist [i will not include the lower chain]

1. The book of Aban bin Umar al-Asadiy [from the Ashab al-Sadiq]

قال حدثنا حميد بن زياد قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل، عن عبيس بن هشام بكتاب أبان بن عمر الأسدي

Humayd bin Ziyad > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ubays bin Hisham > Aban bin Umar al-Asadiy.

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ubays who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [Aban] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

2. The book of Ibrahim bin Nasr bin al-Qa'qa [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq and al-Kadhim]

قال حدثنا حميد بن زياد، قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل، قال حدثنا جعفر بن بشير عن إبراهيم بن نصر بن القعقاع به

Humayd bin Ziyad > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ja'far bin Bashir > Ibrahim bin Nasr bin al-Qa'qa.

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ja'far bin Bashir who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq and al-Kadhim [ibrahim] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

3. The book of al-Husayn bin Ahmad al-Minqari [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

قال حدثنا حميد بن زياد، قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل، قال حدثنا عبيس بن هشام، عن الحسين بن أحمد بكتابه

Humayd bin Ziyad > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ubays bin Hisham > al-Husayn bin Ahmad al-Minqari

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ubays who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [al-Husayn] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

4. The book of Ayyub bin Atiyyah [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

قال حدثنا حميد قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا صفوان بن يحيى قال حدثنا أبو عبد الرحمن بن عطية بكتابه

Humayd bin Ziyad > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Safwan bin Yahya > Ayyub bin Atiyyah

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Safwan who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [Ayyub] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

5. The book of Hamza bin Humran al-Shaybani [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

قال حدثنا حميد بن زياد قراءة قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا صفوان بن يحيى عن حمزة بكتابه

Humayd bin Ziyad > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Safwan bin Yahya > Hamza bin Humran al-Shaybani

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Safwan who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [Hamza] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

6. The book of Hassan bin Mihran al-Jammal [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq and al-Kadhim]

قال حدثنا حميد قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا علي بن النعمان عن حسان بكتابه

Humayd bin Ziyad > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ali bin Nu'man > Hassan bin Mihran al-Jammal

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ali bin Nu'man who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq and al-Kadhim [Hassan] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

7. The book of Zakariyya bin Abdallah [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq and al-Kadhim]

قال حدثنا علي بن محمد بن رباح قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا صفوان بن يحيى عن عمرو بن خالد عنه بكتابه

Ali bin Muhammad bin Rabah > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Safwan bin Yahya > Amru bin Khalid > Zakariyya

[As we can see Ali who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Safwan bin Yahya who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating from Amru bin Khalid

who is in Tabaqah number 5 narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq and al-Kadhim [Zakariyya] who is also in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

8. The book of Zahr bin Abdallah al-Asadiy [from the Ashab of al-Baqir and al-Sadiq]

قال حدثنا حميد قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل

Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqa 8 is narrating from al-Qasim bin Ismail, and this is the end of the chain]

NOTES:

There is no way al-Qasim bin Ismail who is in Tabaqah 7 can narrate from someone who is from the Ashab of al-Baqir and al-Sadiq. There just has to be at least one intermediary between them. This being the case, this is one instance of suspicion where al-Qasim bin Ismail claims to narrate a book of someone who he could not have met.

There are only a few options here, either Najashi has not recorded the whole chain, or al-Qasim is practising Tadlis by not mentioning his intermediaries, or he has fabricated the book and attributed it to Zahr.

To be continued ...

Edited by Dar'ul_Islam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

9. The book of Sabah bin Sabih al-Hadha al-Fazari [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

قال حدثنا حميد قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا عبيس بن هشام عن صباح بكتابه

Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ubays bin Hisham > Sabah bin Sabih al-Fazari

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ubays who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [sabah] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

10. The book of Abdallah bin al-Walid al-Nakhai [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن رباح قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا عبيس بن هشام عنه بكتابه

Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Rabah > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ubays bin Hisham > Abdallah bin al-Walid al-Nakhai

[As we can see Ahmad who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ubays who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [Abdallah] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

11. The book of Abdallah bin Ayyub al-Zuhri [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

قال حدثنا حميد قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا عبيس عن عبد الله بكتابه

Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ubays bin Hisham > Abdallah bin Ayyb al-Zuhri

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ubays who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [Abdallah] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

12. The book of Abd al-Rahmab bin A'yan al-Shaybani [from the Ashab of al-Baqir and al-Sadiq]

قال حدثنا حميد بن زياد قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا علي بن النعمان عن عبد الرحمن بن أعين بكتابه

Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ali bin al-Nu'man > Abd al-Rahman bin A'yan al-Shaybani

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ali bin al-Nu'man who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [Abd al-Rahman] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

13. The book of Abd al-Samad bin Bashir al-Abdiy [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

قال حدثنا حميد بن زياد قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل، عن عبيس، عن عبد الصمد بكتابه

Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ubays bin Hisham > Abd al-Samad bin Bashir al-Abdiy

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ubays who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [Abd al-Samad] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

14. The book of Muthanna bin Abd al-Salam [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

عن حميد، عن القاسم بن إسماعيل، عنه به

Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Muthanna bin Abd al-Salam

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqa 8 is narrating from al-Qasim bin Ismail who is in Tabaqah 7 narrating from a Sahabi of al-Sadiq [Muthanna]]

NOTES:

There is no way al-Qasim bin Ismail who is in Tabaqah 7 can narrate from someone who is from the Ashab of al-Sadiq. There just has to be one intermediary between them. This being the case, this is the second instance of suspicion where al-Qasim bin Ismail claims to narrate a book of someone who he could not have met (at least it is doubtful).

15. The book of Umar Abu Hafs al-Rumaniy [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

حدثنا حميد قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل، عن عبيس، عن أبي حفص بكتابه

Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ubays > Abu Hafs al-Rumaniy

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ubays who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [Abu Hafs] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

To be continued ...

Edited by Islamic Salvation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

16. The book of Abu Harun al-Sinji [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

حميد قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا عبيس بن هشام، عن أبي هارون السنجي

Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ubays bin Hisham > Abu Harun al-Sanji

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ubays who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [Abu Harun] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

17. The book of Nasih al-Baqqal [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

عن حميد بن زياد، عن القاسم بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا جعفر بن بشير، عن ناصح بكتابه

Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ja'far bin Bashir > Nasih al-Baqqal

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ja'far who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [Nasih] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

18. The book of Malik bin Atiyyah al-Ahmasiy [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

قال حدثنا حميد قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا عبيس بن هشام، عن مالك بكتابه

Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ubays bin Hisham > Malik bin Atiyyah al-Ahmasiy

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ubays who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [Malik] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

19. The book of Uyayna bin Maymun [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

عن حميد، عن القاسم بن إسماعيل، عن علي بن النعمان، عنه بكتابه

Humayd > al-Qasim > Ali bin al-Nu'man > Uyayna bin Ma'mun

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ali who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [uyayna] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

20. The book of Hashim bin Hayyan Abu Said al-Mukariy [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

حدثنا علي بن حبشي بن قوني قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل

I say: There is dropping if Humayd in between Ali bin Habshiy and al-Qasim, for always Ali bin Habshiy narrates from Humayd who narrates from al-Qasim bin Ismail.

This being the case, the Isnad should look like Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail.

NOTES:

It seems very doubtful that al-Qasim bin Ismail narrated directly from Hashim, this is when we consider that Safwan bin Yahya [who is a teacher of this al-Qasim - and from Tabaqah number 6) is recorded as narrating from him.

To be continued ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

21. The book of Isa bin al-Sarriy Abu al-Yasa [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

قال حدثنا حميد بن زياد قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل قال حدثنا محمد بن سلمة بن أرتبيل عن عيسى بكتابه

Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Muhammad bin Salama > Isa bin al-Sarriy

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Muhammad bin Salama who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [isa] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

22. The book of A'mir bin Abdallah bin Juda'ah al-Azdiy [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

حدثنا حميد بن زياد قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل قال حدثني إبراهيم بن مهزم عن عامر بن جداعة بكتابه

Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ibrahim bin Muhazim > A'mir bin Juda'ah al-Azdiy

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Ibrahim bin Muhazim who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [A'mir] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

23. The book of Sabih Abu al-Sabah al-Sayrafi [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

حدثنا علي بن محمد بن رباح من كتابه قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل أبو المنذر الأنباري قال حدثنا صفوان بن يحيى عن صبيح أبي الصباح بكتابه

Ali bin Muhammad bin Rabah > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Safwan bin Yahya > Sabih bin Abu al-Sabah

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim who is in Tabaqah 7 who is narrating from Safwan who is in Tabaqah 6 who is narrating the book of the companion of al-Sadiq [sabih] who is in Tabaqah number 5. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

..That is the end..

So in Summary from Fihrist al-Najashi

1. Aban bin Umar al-Asadiy [Humayd > al-Qasim > Ubays bin Hisham > Aban]

2. Ibrahim bin Nasr bin al-Qa'qa [Humayd > al-Qasim> Ja'far bin Bashir > Ibrahim]

3. al-Husayn bin Ahmad al-Minqari [Humayd > al-Qasim > Ubays > al-Husayn]

4. Ayyub bin Atiyyah [Humayd > al-Qasim > Safwan bin Yahya > Ayyub]

5. Hamza bin Humran [Humayd > al-Qasim > Safwan > Hamza]

6. Hassan bin Mihran al-Jammal [Humayd > al-Qasim > Ali bin al-Nu'man > Hassan]

7. Zakariyya bin Abdallah [Ali bin Muhammad bin Rabah > al-Qasim > Safwan > Amru bin Khalid > Zakariyya]

8. Zahr bin Abdallah al-Asadiy [Humayd > al-Qasim > Zahr]

9. Sabah bin Sabih al-Fazari [Humayd > al-Qasim > Ubays > Sabah]

10. Abdallah bin al-Walid al-Nakhai [Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Rabah > al-Qasim > Ubays > Abdallah]

12. Abd al-Rahman bin A'yan [Humayd > al-Qasim > Ali bin al-Nu'man > Abd al-Rahman]

11. Abdallah bin Ayyub al-Zuhri [Humayd > al-Qasim > Ubays > Abdallah]

13. Abd al-Samad bin Bashir al-Abdiy [Humayd > al-Qasim > Ubays > Abd al-Samad]

14. Muthanna bin Abd al-Salam [Humayd > al-Qasim > Muthanna]

15. Umar Abu Hafs al-Rumaniy [Humayd > al-Qasim > Ubays > Umar]

16. Abu Harun al-Sinji [Humayd > al-Qasim > Ubays > Abu Harun]

17. Nasih al-Baqqal [Humayd > al-Qasim > Ja'far bin Bashir > Nasih]

18. Malik bin Atiyyah al-Ahmasiy [Humayd > al-Qasim > Ubays > Malik]

19. Uyayna bin Maymun [Humayd > al-Qasim > Ali bin al-Nu'man > Uyayna]

20. Hashim bin Hayyan al-Mukariy [Humayd > al-Qasim > Hashim]

21. Isa bin al-Sarriy [Humayd > al-Qasim > Muhammad bin Salama > Isa]

22. A'mir bin Abdallah al-Azdiy [Humayd > al-Qasim > Ibrahim bin Muzahim > A'mir]

23. Sabih Abu al-Sabah [Ali bin Muhammad bin Rabah > al-Qasim > Safwan > Sabih]

Edited by Islamic Salvation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

al-Qasim bin Ismail is an integral Waqifi narrator for some Usuls of the Ashab [notebooks of Ahadith from the Imams], these he narrated to his formemost student - the famous Waqifi Shaykh of al-Kulayni - Humayd bin Ziyad, and secondarily to another Waqifi Ali bin Muhammad bin Rabah and his brother Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Rabah.

I first ran across him when I say this Riwayah in the Ghaybah of al-Tusi which paints him as a liar.

وروى أبو علي محمد بن همام، عن علي بن رباح، قال: سألت القاسم بن إسماعيل القرشي وكان ممطورا: أي شئ سمعت من محمد بن أبي حمزة؟ قال: ما سمعت منه إلا حديثا واحدا، قال ابن رباح: ثم أخرج بعد ذلك حديثا كثيرا، فرواه عن محمد ابن أبي حمزة، قال ابن رباح: وسألت القاسم هذا: كم سمعت من حنان؟ قال: أربعة أحاديث أو خمسة، قال: ثم أخرج بعد ذلك حديثا كثيرا فرواه عنه

And narrated Abu Ali Muhammad bin Hammam from Ali bin Rabah who said: I asked al-Qasim bin Ismail al-Qarashiy and he was a Mamtura - what did you hear from Muhammad bin Abi Hamza? he (al-Qasim) said: I did not hear from him except a single Hadith, and Ibn Rabah said: then after that he came out with many Ahadith which he narrated from Muhammad bin Abi Hamza, and Ibn Rabah said: and I asked this al-Qasim: how much did you hear from Hannan? he (al-Qasim) said: four Ahadith or five, he (Ibn Rabah) said: then he came out with many Ahadith narrated on his (Hanan's) authority.

In the above Riwayah, Ibn Rabah claims that al-Qasim bin Ismail would fabricate narrations on the authority of Muhammad bin Abi Hamza and Hannan - from whom he did not hear alot of narrations.

The only brief and terse entry about al-Qasim in our works is found in Rijal Tusi, who says about him

يكنى أبا محمد المنذر، روى عنه حميد بن زياد أصولا كثيرة

al-Qasim bin Ismail al-Qarashiy: his Kuniyyah is Abu Muhammad al-Mundhir, Humayd bin Ziyad narrated alot of Usul from him.

Willing to investigate further, I turned to the two Fihrists of al-Najashi and al-Tusi to see whether there are any peculiarities in the Usul transmission chains which he partakes in which can come to the fore to support this claim.

Interesting research, akhi. But...let me get this straight. Are we to believe that `Ali b. Rabah (a Waqifi mind you) is narrating a hadith whereby he calls al-Qasim b. Ismail a mamtura (lit. "wet dog" - a pejorative term often used in the polemics in reference to the Waqifa) while he himself is a Waqifi? He'd be insulting himself, wouldn't he? Who does that? I find that rather absurd. Am I the only one that catches that? :huh:

(wasalam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting research, akhi. But...let me get this straight. Are we to believe that `Ali b. Rabah (a Waqifi mind you) is narrating a hadith whereby he calls al-Qasim b. Ismail a mamtura (lit. "wet dog" - a pejorative term often used in the polemics in reference to the Waqifa) while he himself is a Waqifi? He'd be insulting himself, wouldn't he? Who does that? I find that rather absurd. Am I the only one that catches that? :huh:

(wasalam)

Good question Akhi, having said that, you are not the only one who 'catches' this, the very simple answer to this is that the وكان ممطورا is an addition by later narrators(or even copyists) to clarify the Madhab of al-Qasim bin Ismail, infact it could be al-Tusi himself who makes this addition, you see al-Tusi is bringing up this example under the following context, and I quote:

فأمّا ما روي من الطعن على رواة الواقفة فأكثر من أن يحصى، و هو موجود في كتب أصحابنا، و نحن نذكر طرفا منه

'And as to what has been narrated in criticism of the narrators of the Waqifa, than that is more numerous than to be counted, and it is preserved in the books of our companions, and we are going to mention a few of these .....'

And thereafter he goes on to narrate this narration from Ali bin Rabah questioning his Shaykh al-Qasim bin Ismail.

Thus making it clear that al-Qasim is one of these Waqifis seems necessary.

So I do not think that these were the words of Ali bin Rabah as he is narrating from al-Qasim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, beginning with the Fihrist of al-Tusi.

1. The book of Ibrahim bin Nasr [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

حميد بن زياد عن القاسم بن إسماعيل عن جعفر بن بشير عن إبراهيم بن نصر

Humayd > al-Qasim bin Ismail > Ja'far bin Bashir > Ibrahim.

NOTES:

[it should be noted that this is the same Ibrahim bin Nasr al-Qa'qa (no. 2 above), and the upper chain of al-Tusi is identical to that of al-Najashi in obtaining Ibrahim's book. Verdict: Everything looks fine]

2. The book of Ibrahim bin Umar al-Yamani [from the Ashab of al-Baqir and al-Sadiq]

أخبرنا به عدة من أصحابنا عن أحمد بن محمد بن الحسن بن الوليد عن أبيه عن محمد بن الحسن الصفار عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى عن الحسين بن سعيد عن حماد بن عيسى عنه، و أخبرنا أحمد بن عبدون عن أبي طالب الأنباري عن حميد بن زياد عن ابن نهيك و القاسم بن إسماعيل القرشي جميعا عنه.

The Shaykh has two chains to this book, one that is a Qummi chain, and the other that is a Kufan-Baghdadi Waqifi chain.

CHAIN A: A number of our companions > Ahmad bin Muhammad bin al-Hasan bin al-Walid > his father (Ibn al-Walid) > Muhammad bin al-Hasan al-Saffar > Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Isa > al-Husayn bin Said > Hammad bin Isa from him (i.e. Ibrahim).

CHAIN B: Ahmad bin Abdul-Wahid > Abu Talib al-Anbariy (Waqifi) > Humayd bin Ziyad (Waqifi) > Ibn Nahiyk (Waqifi) AND al-Qasim bin Ismail al-Qarashiy (Waqifi) from him (i.e. Ibrahim).

NOTES:

There is no way that al-Qasim bin Ismail can narrate from Ibrahim bin Umar al-Yamani, this is the same al-Qasim who requires the intermediary of people like Safwan, Ali bin al-Nu'man and Jafar bin Bashir [Ashab of al-Ridha] to narrate from al-Sadiq's companions, how can he narrate directly from Ibrahim bin Umar al-Yamani, there must be at least two intermediaries between them.

Compare with the Qummi chain which follows a regular pattern, with al-Saffar (Tabaqah 8) from al-Asha'ari (Tabaqah 7) from al-Husayn (Tabaqah 6) from Hammad (Tabaqah 5).

3. The book of Ismail bin Abd al-Khaliq [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq and al-Kadhim]

أخبرنا به ابن أبي جيد عن محمد بن الحسن بن الوليد عن محمد بن الحسن الصفار عن محمد بن الوليد عن إسماعيل، و أخبرنا أحمد بن عبدون عن أبي طالب الأنباري عن حميد بن زياد عن أبي محمد القاسم بن إسماعيل القرشي عن إسماعيل بن عبد الخالق

The Shaykh has two chains to this book, one that is a Qummi chain, and the other that it a Kufan-Baghdadi Waqifi chain.

CHAIN A: Ibn Abi Jayyid > Muhammad bin al-Hassan bin al-Walid > Muhammad bin al-Hassan al-Saffar > Muhammad bin al-Walid > Ismail.

CHAIN B: Ibn Abdun > Abu Talib al-Anbari (Waqifi) > Humayd bin Ziyad (Waqifi) > Abu Muhammad al-Qasim bin Ismail (Waqifi) > Ismail.

NOTES:

As we can see, in the Qummi chain, al-Saffar, who is in the same Tabaqah as al-Qasim has an intermediary to the book [i.e. Muhammad bin Walid], but al-Qasim does not.

4. The book of Asbat bin Salim [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]and al-Kadhim]

أخبرنا به ابن أبي جيد عن ابن الوليد عن الصفار عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى عن ابن أبي عمير عنه، و أخبرنا به أحمد بن عبدون عن ابن الأنباري عن حميد بن زياد عن القاسم بن إسماعيل القرشي عن أسباط.

CHAIN A: Ibn Abi Jayyid > Ibn al-Walid > al-Saffar > Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Isa > Ibn Abi Umayr > Asbat.

CHAIN B: Ahmad bin Abdun > al-Anbari (Waqifi) > Humayd (Waqifi) > al-Qasim bin Ismail (Waqifi) > Asbat.

NOTES:

Notice how in chain B there is no narrator from Tabaqah 6, we see that al-Qasim is narrating directly from Asbat.

5. The book of Burayh al-Abdiy [from the Ashab of al-Sadiq]

حميد بن زياد عن القاسم بن إسماعيل القرشي، و عبيد الله بن أحمد النهيكي جميعا عنه

Humayd > al-Qasim AND al-Nahiyki > Burayh.

[As we can see Humayd who is in Tabaqah 8 is narrating from al-Qasim AND al-Nahiykiy (another Waqifi) who are in Tabaqah 7 and both are narrating a book of the companion of al-Sadiq [burayh] who is in Tabaqah number 5]

NOTES:

How can al-Qasim narrate from al-Sadiq's companions directly!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

So, how's the tariqa for Tusi to Muhammad b. Hammam? And how many narrations of al-Qasim do we actually have?

I haven't even looked it up, but I assume it is this:

Tusi > Jama`ah > Tal`ukbari > Muhammad b. Hammam b. Suhayl

As for number of narrations, Mawsu`ah says the name "Qasim b. Ismail" appears only 4 times in Wasa'il. The Qudama did a good job of filtering out liars and fabrications, al-hamdulillah, for the most part anyway

في أمان الله

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

al-Qasim bin Ismail narrates thrice in al-Kafi, all three narrations are on the topic of al-Ghayba and the Qiyam.

Apart from that, there seems to be a total neglect of him from al-Tusi, even though al-Tusi had received a lot of works through him.

الحسين بن محمد، عن جعفر بن محمد، عن القاسم بن إسماعيل الانباري، عن يحيى بن المثنى، عن عبدالله بن بكير، عن عبيد بن زرارة، عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال: للقائم غيبتان، يشهد في إحداهما المواسم، يرى الناس ولا يرونه

الحسين بن محمد، عن جعفر بن محمد، عن القاسم بن إسماعيل الانباري، عن الحسن بن علي، عن إبراهيم بن مهزم، عن أبيه، عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال: ذكرنا عنده ملوك آل فلان فقال: إنما هلك الناس من استعجالهم لهذا الامر، إن الله لا يعجل لعجلة العباد إن لهذا الامر غاية ينتهي إليها، فلو قد بلغوها لم يستقدموا ساعة ولم يستأخروا

NOTE: This second Hadith shows one Wasita between him an Ibrahim bin Muhazim, while he claims to have narrated the book of A'mir bin Abdallah bin Juda'ah al-Azdiy (no. 22 above) directly from Ibrahim.

محمد بن يحيى والحسن بن محمد، عن جعفر بن محمد، عن القاسم بن إسماعيل الانباري، عن الحسن بن علي عن أبي المغرا عن ابن أبي يعفور قال سمعت أبا عبدالله عليه السلام يقول: ويل لطغاة العرب، من أمر قد اقترب، قلت: جعلت فداك كم مع القائم من العرب؟ قال: نفر يسير، قلت: والله إن من يصف هذا الامر منهم لكثير، قال: لا بد للناس من أن يمحصوا ويميزوا ويغربلوا ويستخرج في الغربال خلق كثير

It should be seen that in all three narrations his real position in the Tabaqat is gleamed.

On as sidenote, it is interesting how close knit the Waqifa Rijal were, their paths of transmission overlap quite a bit, and their concentration is on getting the Usul and books of certain figures, who must be in some way associated with them.

Edited by Islamic Salvation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good question Akhi, having said that, you are not the only one who 'catches' this, the very simple answer to this is that the وكان ممطورا is an addition by later narrators(or even copyists) to clarify the Madhab of al-Qasim bin Ismail, infact it could be al-Tusi himself who makes this addition, you see al-Tusi is bringing up this example under the following context, and I quote:

فأمّا ما روي من الطعن على رواة الواقفة فأكثر من أن يحصى، و هو موجود في كتب أصحابنا، و نحن نذكر طرفا منه

'And as to what has been narrated in criticism of the narrators of the Waqifa, than that is more numerous than to be counted, and it is preserved in the books of our companions, and we are going to mention a few of these .....'

And thereafter he goes on to narrate this narration from Ali bin Rabah questioning his Shaykh al-Qasim bin Ismail.

Thus making it clear that al-Qasim is one of these Waqifis seems necessary.

So I do not think that these were the words of Ali bin Rabah as he is narrating from al-Qasim.

I suppose that's definitely possible, but it still seems fishy. I wouldn't be surprised to know the origins of such a narration as would be expected in the highly polemical culture many scholars found themselves in, but that's quite speculative on my part. My question would be, though, why not filter out all of the narrations from these Waqifis, if they were so prone to lying. Why would we even want them in our books or have any interest in what they have to narrate (they'd probably be making it up, wouldn't they?). Although, at the same time, I don't see why we would have to discredit all of these usul books on the basis of one hadith (which I am doubtful of) and even though a few books appear without complete chains, several others do. And like you said, they're are at least a few possiblities as to why the chains appear incomplete.

(wasalam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

/\ Those are all from al-Qasim b. Isma`il al-Anbari, who is separate from the Qasim b. Isma`il al-Qarashi you are discussing: http://www.hadith.ne...-e2052-p36.html

So, that tariqa? (Dar's guess aside)

Actually, I argue that it is the same person.

Firstly, al-Qasim bin Ismail al-Anbariy has only these three narrations in al-Kafi.

Secondly, he is unknown outside of these three narrations, that is, al-Najashi or al-Tusi do not mention him separately.

But the main reason that settles the matter is as follows:

When the Shaykh is narrating his path to Sabih Abu al-Sabah, he says the following:

صبيح أبو الصباح مولى بسام بن عبد الله الصيرفي

له كتاب يرويه عنه جماعة، منهم صفوان بن يحيى. أخبرنا أحمد بن عبد الواحد قال حدثنا عبيد الله بن أحمد الأنباري قال حدثنا علي بن محمد بن رباح من كتابه قال حدثنا القاسم بن إسماعيل أبو المنذر الأنباري قال حدثنا صفوان بن يحيى عن صبيح أبي الصباح بكتابه.

Sabih Abu al-Sabah - client of Bassam bin Abdallah al-Sayrafi.

He has a book, narrate from him a number of people, among them is Safwan bin Yahya.

Narrated to us Ahmad bin Abdul Wahid narrated to us Ubaydallah bin Ahmad al-Anbari (Waqifi) who said narrated to us Ali bin Muhammad bin Rabah (Waqifi) who said narrated to us al-Qasim bin Ismail Abu al-Mundhir al-Anbariy (Waqifi) who said narrated to us Safwan bin Yahya from Sabih bin Abu al-Sabah - with his book.

And when we go back to the Tarjama of al-Qasim bin Ismail, al-Tusi says

يكنى أبا محمد المنذر، روى عنه حميد بن زياد أصولا كثيرة

His Kuniyyah is Abu Muhammad al-Mundhir, narrated from him Humayd bin Ziyad a lot of Usuls.

This together with the fact that he occurs in the same Tabaqah just brings it home.

I suppose that's definitely possible, but it still seems fishy. I wouldn't be surprised to know the origins of such a narration as would be expected in the highly polemical culture many scholars found themselves in, but that's quite speculative on my part. My question would be, though, why not filter out all of the narrations from these Waqifis, if they were so prone to lying. Why would we even want them in our books or have any interest in what they have to narrate (they'd probably be making it up, wouldn't they?). Although, at the same time, I don't see why we would have to discredit all of these usul books on the basis of one hadith (which I am doubtful of) and even though a few books appear without complete chains, several others do. And like you said, they're are at least a few possiblities as to why the chains appear incomplete.

(wasalam)

The filtering has already occured, for example you see almost NO trace of this al-Qasim bin Ismail in the four books, the three Muhammads clearly preferred alternative Qummi chains.

As to your second point, it is true that there can be other explanations in some cases, for example, what I have come across is that al-Tusi is not as careful or exacting [purposely or not] in recording these Turuq, to an extent that he many a time misses narrators in al-Qasim bin Ismail's Isnads, which makes it seem as though the Isnads are incomplete, but comparing with other sources revealing the truth. This will follow and become clear when I complete this.

Edited by Islamic Salvation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a few questions. What is the point of all of this? So your trying to prove that a narrator is lying, thus nullifies his narrated hadiths? We dont believe that a weak hadith is always false and a sahih hadith is always true, we are not sunnis. How are you 100% sure, if this guy turns out to be a liar, that those hadith are false?

Wa Salaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The filtering has already occured, for example you see almost NO trace of this al-Qasim bin Ismail in the four books, the three Muhammads clearly preferred alternative Qummi chains.

So, what's the verdict? Are we to reject all of these usul books like that? Or just those that appear to be fabricated?

(wasalam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...