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In the Name of God بسم الله

Imam Mahdi

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Alright, I guess the easiest way to do this is to just make a topic. Which im sure there are probably already 20 others, but id like this to be open to interfaith ideas as well.

Im interested in an explanation of Imam Mahdi, built by a number of agreeing minds. If youre shia, then you can offer your belief, and if not a shia, at the very least, if non shias comment, if you could at least entertain possibilities, i would appreciate it.

My question in particular for this topic is...Where has Imam Mahdi gone, and why? Also, how will he bring justice upon his return?

Ill search around for some useful Hadith.

Edited by iDevonian
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This is an amazing article which answers all questions brought forth. It contains many hadiths and discussions as well.

http://www.al-islam....i/nontl/toc.htm

http://www.al-islam....chapter2/4.html

http://www.al-islam....cussions_mahdi/ Book Discussing Imam Mahdi

http://www.al-islam....-twelfthimam/�� -40 hadiths regarding Imam Mahdi A.S

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The concept of the mahdi and even occultation is said to have emerged within the first century of the hijrah, in Kufa which was at the time a hotbed of revolutionary zeal when the Umayyads were in power. There have been many claims throughout history both from Sunni and Shia communities of an individual being the Mahdi (relatively recent examples can be the 19th century Muhammad Ahmed al-Mahdi of Sudan or the brother-in-law of Juhyaman al-Oteibi, the rebel leader of the failed siege of Makkah in 1979).

However, arguably the earliest claim of the Mahdi had been by Mukhtar al Thaqafi (he led a failed revolt against Ibn al Zubayr in 685-687 during the second fitnah) and is notable for having apparently slain some of the murderers of Imam Hussain (a.s), although unlike the romantic and idealised view some have of him, he was said to be a mere opportunist, and moreover was fighting on behalf of one of Imam Ali's other sons, Muhammad al-Hanafiyah - it is this man, whom Mukhtar alleged was the Mahdi, and even went as far to state that he was his wazir (which draws parallels with later concepts regarding the 12th Imam al-Mahdi, who is also said to have had a group of representatives with whom he had direct communication with). It is also said that the idea of the mahdi was not attested to before the time of Mukhtar (The First Dynasty of Islam: The Umayyad Caliphate 661-750 2nd Ed. by G.R. Hawting, page 51).

Also surrounding al-Hanafiyah's death, "was woven the legend that he had not died but was hidden away in a valley in Yemen, known as "Shi'b Radwa", or on a hill near Madinah, called "Jabal Radwa", where he dwells between two lions and is kept alive by two springs, one of honey and another of water, until he appears at the end of days and fills the world with justice and righteousness". (Black Banners From The East: The Establishment of the 'Abbasid State - Incubation of a Revolt by Moshe Sharon, page 117).

It is also worth noting, that although Mukhar's revolt had failed, it was instrumental in paving the way for the movement which eventually overthrew the Umayyads, the Hashimiyya. Many of Hanafiyah's followers passed on their loyalty and support to his son, Abu Hashim (and so we are led to believe, subsequently passed on authority and leadership rights to the 'Abbassid family, thereby causing the leadership of the revolution to pass from 'Alids to 'Abbassids), well essentially, they hijacked the movement for their own interests of course.

Anyway this is just from some books in my own collection, I am fascinated with this early, formative period of Islam, the Umayyad and 'Abbassid eras. However, bear in mind, these sources are from secular, historians and as such, clearly, do not conform with the mainstream theological beliefs most will hold, as is normally the case when discussing religion and history.

I'd recommend the aforementioned books to anyone else interested in this period of Islamic history.

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It is a wonderful concept of waiting and preparing earnestly for the "Awaited One."

What i would like to stress upon is the NUDBAH - lamenting and crying in despair, in the absence of the Mahdy (pbuh).

Shiites believe that while the Mahdy (pbuh) is Present, yet only some blessed ones can see/visibly communicate with Him, but t here is a day when all and sundry will see him... On the day of His Re-appearance (Ruju'u - to return).

Most of us are distressed without Him, and we pray for His hasty appearance... however, it is sad to note that we miss Him only for the restoration of peace & justice, and not out of pure love for Him. But then again, there are those who have seen Him in dreams or had visions or felt His presence in majalis or islamic gatherings and as a result, we long to unite with him as soon as possible, and want to be with him soon... then again, of the lovers of the Mahdy (pbuh), there is that group who are pure Muhhibb-e-Ahlebayt (PBUThem), who feel the masaccre of karbalaa to have shaken their beings and the tragedies befalling our shia brethren today strikes a sharp spear in their hearts, thus they will the Mahdy (pbuh) to reappear fast, in order to avenge the holy blood spilled by the tyrants of all times...

Not only that, these Muhhibb-e-Ahlebayt (PBUThem) also work and prepare themselves for the reappearance of the Imam (pbuh), they strive day and night, and in every waking hour, they are conscious of each and every act, thought and word, lest it may it displease the Imam of our time (pbuh). This is the true form of NUDBAH..

In this era it is difficult for ladies to maintain perfect hejab and for men to be sincere in their dealings, but once there is that driving force, that desire to meet our beloved Master, we should try our best to strive in his way, and to be sincere in our words, deeds and actions, such that when our Imam (as) reappears, we should automatically leave everything and join Him (pbuh).

the real sense of NUDBAH is not only weeping in His absence, but, striving for his cause... He (pbuh) will come to avenge the innocent blood spilled in Karbalaa, therefore those of us who wish to be among the soldiers of the Imam (pbuh), also have to lead a "Karbalai" life... ie, we have to map our lives in such a way that we live by the values of Imam Al-Husayn (pbuh) by praying on time with concentration, observing fast (in actual sense), fulfilling all obligations to the best methods, never bowing down to tyranny, never accepting falsehood and living a life of truth, because Karbalaa was the battle whereby Imam Al-Husayn (pbuh) fought for the Truth, and upon His Reappearance, Imam Al-Mahdy (pbuh), also will wage war against falsehood...

In these blessed holy months of Rajab, Shabaan and Mobarake Ramadhan, let us try to strive in the way of the Mahdy (pbuh)

ALLAHUMMA 'AJJIL LI WALIYYIKAL FARAJ (as).

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This is an excellent link. It's filled with so much conjecture, inconsistency, contradiction, ambiguity and obscurity, that it serves as a great medium to expose the facile nature of the entire concept.

In fact, I don't even have to try too hard:

Engineer Madani: As you all are aware Muslims today are a minority in the world. The sizeable majority inhabiting the planet is non-Muslim. The Shi'a are also a minority in comparison to other schools of thought among Muslims. Among the Shi'a, it must be pointed out in all honesty, there are many evildoers and corrupt people. On the basis of the way things move in a society, in addition to some analogical deduction, this religious scene of the world is unlikely to change drastically. It is possible to speculate that at the time when the Mahdi appears the Shi'a will still be a minority. My question is this: Is it logical and credible to maintain that the majority of the world's population will simply submit and will not resist as they are being eliminated by the soldiers of the Imam of the Age? Moreover, if the majority of the inhabitants of the world are going to be killed, then this earth will look like a huge cemetery. Does it mean then that the Shi'a will rule over this large cemetery? Surely this action cannot be identified as an act of reform and such a government as the universal authority!

Mr. Hoshyar: Actually we do not have sufficient information about the future world.

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The concept of the mahdi and even occultation is said to have emerged within the first century of the hijrah, in Kufa which was at the time a hotbed of revolutionary zeal when the Umayyads were in power. There have been many claims throughout history both from Sunni and Shia communities of an individual being the Mahdi (relatively recent examples can be the 19th century Muhammad Ahmed al-Mahdi of Sudan or the brother-in-law of Juhyaman al-Oteibi, the rebel leader of the failed siege of Makkah in 1979).

So historically, different communities have made claims of different Mahdis. For simplicity, if we could bypass discussions about other Mahdis, and discuss the 12th (or the view of 12er shia) that would be nice. But thank you for this. I surely dont want to open that can of worms hahaha.

However, arguably the earliest claim of the Mahdi had been by Mukhtar al Thaqafi (he led a failed revolt against Ibn al Zubayr in 685-687 during the second fitnah) and is notable for having apparently slain some of the murderers of Imam Hussain (a.s), although unlike the romantic and idealised view some have of him, he was said to be a mere opportunist, and moreover was fighting on behalf of one of Imam Ali's other sons, Muhammad al-Hanafiyah - it is this man, whom Mukhtar alleged was the Mahdi, and even went as far to state that he was his wazir (which draws parallels with later concepts regarding the 12th Imam al-Mahdi, who is also said to have had a group of representatives with whom he had direct communication with). It is also said that the idea of the mahdi was not attested to before the time of Mukhtar (The First Dynasty of Islam: The Umayyad Caliphate 661-750 2nd Ed. by G.R. Hawting, page 51).

This is really interesting stuff. I didnt realize there were so many different views of who the Mahdi was.

Anyway this is just from some books in my own collection, I am fascinated with this early, formative period of Islam, the Umayyad and 'Abbassid eras. However, bear in mind, these sources are from secular, historians and as such, clearly, do not conform with the mainstream theological beliefs most will hold, as is normally the case when discussing religion and history.

I'd recommend the aforementioned books to anyone else interested in this period of Islamic history.

Are you familiar with sections of the book, or books in particular, that focus on a 12er view?

Thank you.

Edited by iDevonian
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This is an excellent link. It's filled with so much conjecture, inconsistency, contradiction, ambiguity and obscurity, that it serves as a great medium to expose the facile nature of the entire concept.

In fact, I don't even have to try too hard:

Engineer Madani: As you all are aware Muslims today are a minority in the world. The sizeable majority inhabiting the planet is non-Muslim. The Shi'a are also a minority in comparison to other schools of thought among Muslims. Among the Shi'a, it must be pointed out in all honesty, there are many evildoers and corrupt people. On the basis of the way things move in a society, in addition to some analogical deduction, this religious scene of the world is unlikely to change drastically. It is possible to speculate that at the time when the Mahdi appears the Shi'a will still be a minority. My question is this: Is it logical and credible to maintain that the majority of the world's population will simply submit and will not resist as they are being eliminated by the soldiers of the Imam of the Age? Moreover, if the majority of the inhabitants of the world are going to be killed, then this earth will look like a huge cemetery. Does it mean then that the Shi'a will rule over this large cemetery? Surely this action cannot be identified as an act of reform and such a government as the universal authority!

Mr. Hoshyar: Actually we do not have sufficient information about the future world.

You are entitled to your own opinion. I guess one can make a conclusion based on one sentence, to even which I dont see the issue.

Will the Majority of the Peoples on the Earth Be Killed?

Engineer Madani: As you all are aware Muslims today are a minority in the world. The sizeable majority inhabiting the planet is non-Muslim. The Shi'a are also a minority in comparison to other schools of thought among Muslims. Among the Shi'a, it must be pointed out in all honesty, there are many evildoers and corrupt people. On the basis of the way things move in a society, in addition to some analogical deduction, this religious scene of the world is unlikely to change drastically. It is possible to speculate that at the time when the Mahdi appears the Shi'a will still be a minority. My question is this: Is it logical and credible to maintain that the majority of the world's population will simply submit and will not resist as they are being eliminated by the soldiers of the Imam of the Age? Moreover, if the majority of the inhabitants of the world are going to be killed, then this earth will look like a huge cemetery. Does it mean then that the Shi'a will rule over this large cemetery? Surely this action cannot be identified as an act of reform and such a government as the universal authority!

Mr. Hoshyar: Actually we do not have sufficient information about the future world. We cannot speculate about the future on the basis of the past. The Muslim assessment of the situation about the human condition is that humanity is already in a state of perfection in terms of capability and mentality. With the Mahdi's revolution they will be even more prepared to accept the truth.

We often hear that many intellectuals in the east and the west have become aware that their own traditions and religions do not have the ability to satisfy their conscience. At the same time, the natural thirst to worship God and to search for a religion has not been entirely quenched and does not leave them in peace. As such, they are in search of a religion that is free from all sorts of superstitions and corrupt beliefs, and whose spiritual power can provide them with satisfying nourishment. It is in keeping with this human search for the path that can satisfy their spiritual quest that one can speculate about the future human society's movement towards discovering the truth about Islamic knowledge and the permanence of its ordinances. At that point, it will become evident to them that the only creed which can respond positively to the inner needs and guarantee physical and mental happiness is Islam.

Unfortunately, we are not well equipped, both in terms of courage and means, to inform the peoples of the world about the Islamic truth and its pure teachings. Nevertheless, the people's search for truth, on the one hand, and the well stipulated ordinances of Islam, on the other, will ultimately allow the problem to resolve by itself. At such an opportune time, peoples of the world will convert to the Islamic faith in the thousands, making them a majority.

In addition, on the basis of general prevailing conditions at the time of the appearance, one can speculate that when the promised Mahdi emerges and presents Islamic truths to the world, informing humanity about Islam's revolutionary and reformative aspects, large numbers of people will accept Islam. Hence, they will save themselves from being killed. For, on the one hand, they will have perfected their ability to perceive religious truth and, on the other, they will have witnessed the miracles performed by the Imam of the Age. Moreover, they will find the social conditions extraordinary and inexplicable, and the call of the leader of the revolution will reach their ears. These circumstances will lead thousands and thousands of people to convert to Islam at the hands of the Mahdi, thereby saving themselves from destruction.

As for those who persist in their disbelief after all these signs, the Peoples of the Book, that is, the Jews and the Christians, will continue to receive the protection of the Islamic government. Other sinful and corrupt disbelievers will be killed by the universal upholder of justice, the Mahdi. The number of the latter group will, consequently, be insignificant.

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So historically, different communities have made claims of different Mahdis. For simplicity, if we could bypass discussions about other Mahdis, and discuss the 12th (or the view of 12er shia) that would be nice. But thank you for this. I surely dont want to open that can of worms hahaha.

This is really interesting stuff. I didnt realize there were so many different views of who the Mahdi was.

Are you familiar with sections of the book, or books in particular, that focus on a 12er view?

Thank you.

Shias weren't searching for the Mehdi. Even Mohammad al Hanafiya was called Mehdi by our Aimma a.s; who were all mehdi. They were searching for a Mehdi who would establish rule.
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Shiites believe that while the Mahdy (pbuh) is Present, yet only some blessed ones can see/visibly communicate with Him, but t here is a day when all and sundry will see him... On the day of His Re-appearance (Ruju'u - to return).

Salaam Alaikum

Would you be so kind as to elaborate on this statement?

Thank you.

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Salaam Alaikum

Would you be so kind as to elaborate on this statement?

Thank you.

With due respect, I would suggest you to read ALL the material I posted, then if you have more questions or questions on the article you can post here. Those sources have much more info then people on this site. We all dont know every answer.

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With due respect, I would suggest you to read ALL the material I posted, then if you have more questions or questions on the article you can post here. Those sources have much more info then people on this site. We all dont know every answer.

Just asking the person to clarify on what they had said. That is all.

I am looking at multiple sources, including yours.

Thank you,

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It's challenging enough to figure out why we exist, whether God really exists or not. Then choosing a religion, let's say it's Islam (well, most are born into it hence really not a 'choosing' per se). We have to trust that a man centuries ago had contact with God and addressed His wishes. Then the plethora of variances within that religion.

Then comes this concept, an individual alive for centuries doing 'something' that no one knows. And he will come and you know the rest of the story.

As a human, we have to draw a line somewhere. We just can't keep dismissing reality and living in this 'unverified' world, otherwise there is no point of reality if there is nothing we can take from it. This concept of al-Mehdi is difficult to digest, especially the whole objective of the concept of Imamat is to guide, yet he is unavailable to do so. On top of that he's supposedly in occultation for centuries doing some work 'behind the scenes'. And to top it off, nothing in the Quran regarding al-Mehdi, and the lack of sources, and the ones that exist are inconsistent and all over the place.

My aql has to draw the line somewhere otherwise I'm oblivious to reality.

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It's challenging enough to figure out why we exist, whether God really exists or not. Then choosing a religion, let's say it's Islam (well, most are born into it hence really not a 'choosing' per se). We have to trust that a man centuries ago had contact with God and addressed His wishes. Then the plethora of variances within that religion.

Then comes this concept, an individual alive for centuries doing 'something' that no one knows. And he will come and you know the rest of the story.

As a human, we have to draw a line somewhere. We just can't keep dismissing reality and living in this 'unverified' world, otherwise there is no point of reality if there is nothing we can take from it. This concept of al-Mehdi is difficult to digest, especially the whole objective of the concept of Imamat is to guide, yet he is unavailable to do so. On top of that he's supposedly in occultation for centuries doing some work 'behind the scenes'. And to top it off, nothing in the Quran regarding al-Mehdi, and the lack of sources, and the ones that exist are inconsistent and all over the place.

My aql has to draw the line somewhere otherwise I'm oblivious to reality.

Brother, I think what you cannot grasp is called Faith, the notion to submit and believe whether physical or metaphysical. But yes I agree with you, for those who cannot even grasp God, before even coming to a divine system ie shia sunni, how can you expect to understand one of its main concepts. In your case jinn, if you dont accept imamate of course your going to reject imam mahdi. I have posted a response to rosh and if you can discuss it with us, it would be interesting. You both have always been rejecting and trying to disprove theologies, yet you never have presented how your point of view is logical or even correct. Im interested to know. Its easy to come and reject, but are you sure what you believe is true? Can you present it properly?

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Alright, I guess the easiest way to do this is to just make a topic. Which im sure there are probably already 20 others, but id like this to be open to interfaith ideas as well.

Im interested in an explanation of Imam Mahdi, built by a number of agreeing minds. If youre shia, then you can offer your belief, and if not a shia, at the very least, if non shias comment, if you could at least entertain possibilities, i would appreciate it.

My question in particular for this topic is...Where has Imam Mahdi gone, and why? Also, how will he bring justice upon his return?

Ill search around for some useful Hadith.

Assalamu Alaykum,

Some of the narrations suggest that Imam is living in mountains (this always makes me think of Tora Bora), not a greeny mountains but the least inhibited ones. He is in Makkah every year at Hajj season.

Why is he in hiding?

One can speculate allot, the reason given by narrations is that he is keeping himself in safety by disclosing his identity, also there is the mention of him not having bay'ah to anyone (not under any sort of laws or government agreements, not under any constitution) So when he appears he will be a free from any obligations to anyone.

Third reason is something that people concluded it, Ahlulbayt are portrayed as Safinatu Noah (Noah Ark), in Quran at the end of the Surat Noah, prophet noah made a Du'a that all kafirs should not be allowed to reproduce because they will only bring unbelievers to life. This is strange concept and somehow contradicts what Islam teaches that humans can choose which pathway they want to go. But the larger picture of this issue is what Prophet Noah said, that after a while, the kafirs will bring to life another kafirs, the criminal genes will be the major player in determining someone's behavior. Quran says that Allah brings an alive thing from a dead thing, Living things are Mo'mins and dead things are Kafirs, so while we have a chance today, we try to produce alive things, when time comes though, when there is no chance that a kafir might convert or produce a mo'min, then Imam will appear.

For now, his peculiar story along with his father's teachings should be a pointer towards this path of Shiaiism like how was the Ark which as built away from the sea a pointer to Prophet Noah message.

There are verses in Quran that speak about a day that is not the day of Qiyamah but one might mistaken it for the day of Qiyamah if they are not attentive. This day is the day of reappearance of Imam Mahdi, it is not a cheerful day for when he will appear, there will be only 2 options, to believe or to die, much like what happened to people during Noah time. In Quran we are called children of those who were carried by the Ark. We are the children of the believers who entered the Ark. This is why he is in hiding, to give us the deserved chance to use the good in us to do good to the next generations by producing a mo'min.

Justice should be understood in the scope of Quran and Sunnah.

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Then comes this concept, an individual alive for centuries doing 'something' that no one knows. And he will come and you know the rest of the story. '

Correction. Noone knows the rest of the story. All the elemental details that are necessary for the concept to make sense in the contemporary reality are absent from the storyline. It's insane how people can believe in something they don't have a clue about.

The prophesied material is contradictory and antiquated in nature, not even an inkling in the narrations of how it is going to work out in practical terms.

Most of the foreseen changes I found in the link don't even make sense and are superficial. It doesn't take into account human psychology. Apparently this perfect world will arise via fallible beings - it's wishful thinking.

I haven't read any narration that explains how the Mehdi will eliminate underground illicit practices, or how the Mehdi will deal with the people who feign submission to avoid death. It'll be state enforced hypocrisy. What about the economy? What will change in this area? These are the more critical aspects that are not given attention to - and, frankly, it speaks volumes.

"In the matter of building the roads, interesting programs will be introduced. Main roads will be sixty yards wide. In building the roads there will be so much diligence that the mosques standing in the middle will be demolished. Footpaths will adorn the streets. Pedestrians will be asked to cross the roads at the proper pedestrian's crossing; whereas the drivers will be asked to move into the middle. All the windows of the homes that open to the street will be closed. There will be prohibitions against constructing open drains and sewage on the streets. Imposing structures will be demolished. The highly decorative and elevated mosques as well as minarets and the grills separating the leader of the congregational prayers from the worshippers will be destroyed."

http://www.al-islam.org/mahdi/nontl/Chap-14.htm

In reference to the posterity of Muslims:

http://www.al-islam.org/mahdi/nontl/Chap-14.htm

If the twelfth Imam says: "The greatness of Islam is righteous action, honesty, trustworthiness, keeping promises, avoiding forbidden acts," this would appear to them altogether new! They used to assume that when the Imam appears he will make amends for all the actions of the Muslims and will retire with them in the corner of a mosque.

Unbelievably moronic.

But if they witness that blood is dripping from the Imam's sword and that he is calling people to jihad and to command the good and forbid the evil, and that he is killing the unjust worshippers and returning the goods they have stolen to their rightful owners, such actions of the Imam they will indeed find new!

Command what good? Forbid what evil? How? Why would anyone now or in the future consider common sense human rights and ethical standards as something "new?" This tells me nada.

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"In the matter of building the roads, interesting programs will be introduced. Main roads will be sixty yards wide. In building the roads there will be so much diligence that the mosques standing in the middle will be demolished. Footpaths will adorn the streets. Pedestrians will be asked to cross the roads at the proper pedestrian's crossing; whereas the drivers will be asked to move into the middle. All the windows of the homes that open to the street will be closed. There will be prohibitions against constructing open drains and sewage on the streets. Imposing structures will be demolished. The highly decorative and elevated mosques as well as minarets and the grills separating the leader of the congregational prayers from the worshippers will be destroyed."

What? Is Imam Mahdi going to do all these public works during his reign? Is that the paragraph implying?

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Almost every Muslim sects believe in the the personality of the Saviour of Islam (the Mahdi) even the Sunnis who don't really have Imamaah as part of their creed. You will also find a number of Sunni Mahdis who appeared in the past and claim that they fulfill certain Prophetic traditions from their book.

Shias also have more than their shares of people/sects making claim that their Imams is the prophesied Mahdi. You may want to checkout Waqifa and their sub-sects http://researchintoo...ther-sects.html

Edited by Gypsy
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Some truths:

1. Not knowing exactly what Imam Mehdi [aj] is doing now has absolutely no impact on the coherence of the belief in his existence

2. Not knowing exactly how he will establish global justice has absolutely no impact on the coherence of the belief in his existence. All that is required is that it is logically possible that he is able to do this. Given that he will do it with Gods help, and God is all powerful, then there is no reason to suppose that it is impossible, and every reason to suppose that it is possible.

3. In fact, even not knowing exactly what this justice involves, also has no impact on the coherence of the belief in his existence. All that is required is the belief that there is a certain way a good world should be, (and that there are certain evils a good world should be without,) and that Imam Mehdi's reappearance will lead to such a world.

4. It might be objected that given (3) above, the non-believer has no way to judge whether Imam Mehdi's reappearance is a good thing for them. The answer is, this is completely irrelevant to the believer, who knows that Imam Mehdi's reappearance will definitely be a good thing, because he knows that Imam Mehdi is Gods representative on Earth, and that he will increase goodness in the world, and decrease evil.

5. Points (3) and (4) assume that the believer has no idea what justice actually involves. In fact, this is not true, as (for example) they can point to instances of injustice that won't exist during Imam Mehdi's reign, e.g. the mass murder of Shias for being Shias. And they can point to instances of justice that will exist during Imams reign, e.g. the punishing of mass murderers. So all believers have an intuitive basic grasp of some instances of justice and injustice, even if they cannot spell out exactly what justice entails.

The above a pretty obvious, but I state them because some people seem unable to grasp the obvious.

Edited by .InshAllah.
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What a waste of time. It'd be easier to describe colour to a person who was born blind than convince the unbeliever of the truth...

brother you shouldnt say that. There are many people who are shia and have doubts, especially on here. The least you are doing is making your faith strong and even helping others grasp it. This is why I like jinn and rosh, they challenge me in ways I have never thought of. I believe this is the struggle Allah is talking about. The objective shouldnt be trying to persuade them but truly dissecting their questions and answering them within your own self. At the end of the day, you cannot persuade everyone.

Edited by PureEthics
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it is the Victory of Allah

it is the Victory of Good over evil

as for the beautiful metaphor described by a great brother above, using the example of giving life then death then life again.

it can be seen from a scientific point of view. everything around us disintegrates and falls apart, except if a living creature organizes it. And with time every house will fall apart again for instance. So, the laws of nature around us is that things collapse with time and get somehow worse. So it is the same with human society, which has been getting gradually worse since the beginning of mankind. The pollution is more, wars are more, hunger is more, distractions are more, corruption is more. So in a sense our human presence has been dying, or is somehow dead already. People just panic to make ends meet, and from a spiritual point of view most of mankind is dead. From an Islamic point of view, most people are dead. So the idea that God can blow His life into dead things, and make them living and thriving again, can be used to strengthen our faith in good conquering evil one day. On a materialistic level all that is needed is water, which is also the source of all life on a materialist level. And on a spiritual level it would be the equivalent in the unseen world of faith, brought about by Truth Justice and Love in God.

I think the main reason why people lose faith in things ever getting better, is exactly for this reason. Why should things get better if they have just been getting worse and worse and worse for ages now? So the metaphor of God raining water on the land and reviving it can help us understand that it is possible. All we need is God to rain the spiritual water on us and through us, to wake up from the dead and get our acts together. To get things into place, and organize things and be alive again.

Important thing to remember in my opinion, is that it is Victory of God and that Mahdi is a title meaning guided one. Guided by God. It is a victory of good over evil, and just because mankind is spiritually dead now, does not mean it is not possible for it to be revived. Just like a desert can be turned into farmland, this world can be turned into a pleasant loving rich place, with justice with a true Victory of God (http://quran.com/110)

May Allah guide us all and forgive us all

(wasalam)

Edited by peace seeker
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brother you shouldnt say that. There are many people who are shia and have doubts, especially on here. The least you are doing is making your faith strong and even helping others grasp it. This is why I like jinn and rosh, they challenge me in ways I have never thought of. I believe this is the struggle Allah is talking about. The objective shouldnt be trying to persuade them but truly dissecting their questions and answering them within your own self. At the end of the day, you cannot persuade everyone.

I agree. I guess I should've been more precise. What I mean is that attempting to convince Ugly Jinn and Rorschach is a futile exercise.

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I agree. I guess I should've been more precise. What I mean is that attempting to convince Ugly Jinn and Rorschach is a futile exercise.

lol you never know. If salafis which are the most hardcore minded beings on earth, can become shias, maybe, just maybe one day these two will have some faith.

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As a human, we have to draw a line somewhere. We just can't keep dismissing reality and living in this 'unverified' world, otherwise there is no point of reality if there is nothing we can take from it.

Just a comment on this. Islam is, in my opinion, empowered on the applications that it brings to reality. People cant always describe specific details of truth in Islam. We arent all scholars, and yet, Islamic still succeeds in societies based on what it brings to people. I consider this, a form of verifying truth in Islam, the message of Islam, in my opinion, certainly does hold truth, even if there are cases in which, we could not explain those truths. Or perhaps, its applicable in life, is not identical to material that we cannot explain or verify application in.

Assalamu Alaykum,

There are verses in Quran that speak about a day that is not the day of Qiyamah but one might mistaken it for the day of Qiyamah if they are not attentive. This day is the day of reappearance of Imam Mahdi, it is not a cheerful day for when he will appear, there will be only 2 options, to believe or to die, much like what happened to people during Noah time. In Quran we are called children of those who were carried by the Ark. We are the children of the believers who entered the Ark. This is why he is in hiding, to give us the deserved chance to use the good in us to do good to the next generations by producing a mo'min.

Justice should be understood in the scope of Quran and Sunnah.

Waalaikum Salaam

Thank you.

Edited by iDevonian
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The above a pretty obvious, but I state them because some people seem unable to grasp the obvious.

Wow. Didn't realise it was obvious to shut up, stop asking questions and just believe. If you'd told me that earlier, I wouldn't have expended much energy in making sense of a fairy tale.

Apparently, all the warfare and death that will occur on such a global landscape will result in a healthy, perfect world. Who will be employed to mop the blood and bury the multitude of corpses? Who will be employed to remedy the damaged rural environment and urban structures? Will the Mehdi spare all the skilled disbelievers? What if they refuse? Enslavement? Oh, sorry, I'm not supposed to ask questions. I just need to mindlessly repeat the phrase "divine justice" and be reassured that everything will work out just fine...

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Wow. Didn't realise it was obvious to shut up, stop asking questions and just believe. If you'd told me that earlier, I wouldn't have expended much energy in making sense of a fairy tale.

Apparently, all the warfare and death that will occur on such a global landscape will result in a healthy, perfect world. Who will be employed to mop the blood and bury the multitude of corpses? Who will be employed to remedy the damaged rural environment and urban structures? Will the Mehdi spare all the skilled disbelievers? What if they refuse? Enslavement? Oh, sorry, I'm not supposed to ask questions. I just need to mindlessly repeat the phrase "divine justice" and be reassured that everything will work out just fine...

What are you talking about? Where are you getting your facts from? Clearly you have no clue. What warfare? Its not like the world is going to be worse than it is now, with all the killings all over the world. The only thing is, is that as there always have been enemies of the imams, there will be many trying to kill him when he arrives. That is pretty much the only "war" that will take place, and avenging justice on those who are clearly are below human beings ie dictators/kings/killers...Let me tell you something, if man has achieved all of this since day one, just because there will be an imam ruling, you dont think we can make the world a even better place? LOL, you think once imam mahdi comes its like going back to the old ages or something? Its not like all the things we have achieved as a humankind will go to waste or be destroyed. This notion of a world war that will take place is wrong and false. However, us as a mankind standing up to help in any way possible, especially the followers, is true.The world is going to be better than it is today, I dont know where your getting ideas about the damage of rural areas and such. Your trying to make any excuse as possible to negate the notion of imam mahdi's purpose. Please think alittle bit.

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Wow. Didn't realise it was obvious to shut up, stop asking questions and just believe. If you'd told me that earlier, I wouldn't have expended much energy in making sense of a fairy tale.

You can ask questions. Your problem is that you confuse questions with objections. I'm saying that nothing you have said is an objection to belief in Imam Mehdi [ajfs]

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I'm saying that nothing you have said is an objection to belief in Imam Mehdi [ajfs]

You're lying. I've been forming valid objections in question form based off of what has been written in the authentic historical records about the Mehdi and what is to come when He shall rise. In that sense, the entire doctrine of Mahdiism is derived from these sources. So if there exist loose ends and incoherencies in the doctrine, and there are a plethora of them, then the character of the Mehdi is put under doubt. You can't have the prophecies being internally haywire and haphazard, and exclude the Mehdi himself from His own actions. This is senseless.

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You're lying. I've been forming valid objections in question form based off of what has been written in the authentic historical records about the Mehdi and what is to come when He shall rise. In that sense, the entire doctrine of Mahdiism is derived from these sources. So if there exist loose ends and incoherencies in the doctrine, and there are a plethora of them, then the character of the Mehdi is put under doubt. You can't have the prophecies being internally haywire and haphazard, and exclude the Mehdi himself from His own actions. This is senseless.

From your posts so far about Imam Mahdis appearance, there is nothing the same from traditions to your words. Your saying what you perceive it to be. I dont think you also realize, hadiths are not set in stone. Meaning, they are not incumbent to be true or come true, or are they made to be taken literal. A sahih hadith can be wrong and a weak hadith can be true. This isnt sunnism. I kindly request, when you are objecting a "doctrine" or "idea" of imam mahdi please post evidence for your claim or state its your own assumption.

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You're lying. I've been forming valid objections in question form based off of what has been written in the authentic historical records about the Mehdi and what is to come when He shall rise. In that sense, the entire doctrine of Mahdiism is derived from these sources. So if there exist loose ends and incoherencies in the doctrine, and there are a plethora of them, then the character of the Mehdi is put under doubt. You can't have the prophecies being internally haywire and haphazard, and exclude the Mehdi himself from His own actions. This is senseless.

No offense but everything you have written is completely worthless. Unfortunately you have difficulty making a logical argument, so your posts tend to be wordy rambles devoid of logical structure.

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From your posts so far about Imam Mahdis appearance, there is nothing the same from traditions to your words. Your saying what you perceive it to be. I dont think you also realize, hadiths are not set in stone. Meaning, they are not incumbent to be true or come true, or are they made to be taken literal. A sahih hadith can be wrong and a weak hadith can be true. This isnt sunnism. I kindly request, when you are objecting a "doctrine" or "idea" of imam mahdi please post evidence for your claim or state its your own assumption.

Right. According to you, any narration of which I dispute and extrapolate further questioning upon is an automatic fabrication. I question the whole corpus of texts. Therefore, again according to you, the entire concept is a fabrication. It's not like you or anyone has indicated my socalled "literalism" and corrected me. Every believer in the Mehdi hasn't an iota of His purpose in reality.

No offense but everything you have written is completely worthless. Unfortunately you have difficulty making a logical argument, so your posts tend to be wordy rambles devoid of logical structure.

What is illogical about my argument? Nothing. Define what you mean, or you're just insulting.

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