12 Imams - Quran And Hadiths

[Muslim2010]

This is in reference to the question that: Where did the twelve Imams (as) come from and why should the number of Imams be twelve and twelve only?

1- As a matter of fact, the answer is right inside the Sahih al-Bukhari and Muslim. There are numerous Sunni collections of traditions which all recorded the following authentic tradition from the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Here, for the sake of brevity, I only quote from Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal.

(i)- In Sahih al-Bukhari (Arabic-English version), the tradition is as follows:

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 9.329

Narrated Jabir Ibn Samura:

I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve commanders (Amir)." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, the Prophet added, "All of them will be from Quraish."

(ii) In Musnad Ahmad, the tradition is as follows:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "There shall be twelve Caliphs for this community, all of them from Quraish."

Reference: Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v5, p106

(iii) In Sahih Muslim, the traditions are as follows:

Narrated Jabir Ibn Samura:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The matter (life) will not end, until it is passed by twelve Caliphs." He then whispered a sentence. I asked my father what the Prophet said. He said, the Prophet added: "All of them will be from Quraish."

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1452, Tradition #5

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1009, Tradition #4477

(iv) Again from Sahih Muslim:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The affairs of people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by the twelve men."

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #6

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4478

(v) Also:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been twelve Caliphs."

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #7

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4480

(vi) Again:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraish."

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #10

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4483

(vii) More Sunni references of similar traditions:

- Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v4, p501

- Sunan Abu Dawud, v2, p421 (three traditions).

- Others such as al-Tiyalasi, Ibn al-Athir, etc.

(viii) Also in another wording, the Messenger of Allah uses the word "Imam" instead of "Caliph". It is widely narrated that:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The Imams are from Quraish"

Sunni references:

- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p149

- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal

- Sahih al-Nisa'i, from Anas Ibn Malik

- Sunan, by al-Baihaqi

- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqa, by Ibn Hajar al-Haithami, Ch. 11, section 2, p287

2- As you may know, the Followers of the Members of the House of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) refer to these 12 Caliphs as of their 12 Imams starting with Imam Ali (as) and ending with Imam Mahdi (as) the leader of our time. There are Caliphs because Allah made them Caliphs (They are vice-regents of Allah on the earth). With the passage of time and through historical events, we know that by the above traditions the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) meant the twelve Imams from his Ahlul-Bait who are the descendants of the Prophet since we have no other 12 pure candidates in the history of Islam upon whose righteousness all Muslims agree. It is interesting to know that even the enemies of Shi'a have NOT been able to find any fault in the virtues of the twelve Imams of Shi'a. Moreover these twelve Imams came one after another without any gap.

3- It is now clear that the only way to interpret the previously mentioned traditions which are narrated by al-Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud and al-Tirmidhi, al-Hakim, and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal is to accept that it refers to the Twelve Imams from the Prophet's Ahlul-Bait, because they were, in their times, the most knowledgeable, the most illustrious, the most god-fearing, the most pious, the best in personal virtues, and the most honored before Allah; and their knowledge was derived from their ancestor (the Prophet) through their fathers. These are the Ahlul-Bait whose sinlessness, flawlessness, and purity is confirmed by the holy Quran (the last sentence of verse 33:33).

4- Also the above mentioned traditions of the Prophet which are considered to be authentic by the Sunnis, proves beyond doubt that the concept of "Twelve Imams" can NOT be a Twelver Shi'ites concoction! It is amazing that despite the acknowledgment of al-Bukhari and Muslim and other prominent Sunni scholars about the twelve Imams, the Sunnis always stop at the four Caliphs! More interestingly, there are Sunni reports in which the Messenger of Allah named these twelve members of his Ahlul-Bait one by one starting with Imam Ali (as) and ending with Imam al-Mahdi (as). (see Yanabi' al-Mawadda, by al-Qunduzi al-Hanafi).

5- There is an interesting tradition in Sahih al-Bukhari as well as Sahih Muslim, in which the Prophet (PBUH&HF) said the following:

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 9.422

Narrated Abu Sa'id al-Khudri:

The Prophet said, "You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a hole of a mastigure (lizard), you would follow them." We said, "O Allah's Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?" He said, "Whom else?"

As the above tradition in Sahih al-Bukhari confirms, the Prophet stated that the history of the Children of Israel will be repeated for Muslims. In fact, Quran has mentioned the stories of the Children of Israel to give us a way to understand the true history of Islam itself.

6-There are many striking similarities in this regard written in Quran including the similarities of the leaders and the similarities of the people.

Few of them are given here. Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty, said:

"Surely Allah aforetime took a covenant from the Children of Israel and We appointed twelve leaders among them" (Quran 5:12)

- Who are those twelve leaders among the Children of Muhammad (PBUH&HF)?

7- Allah, Exalted, also said:

"And when Moses prayed for water for his (thirsty) people; We said: 'Strike the rock with your staff.' Then from there surged forth twelve springs so that each group knew its own place to drink." (Quran 2:60).

- Who are those twelve springs (streams) of knowledge who quench the thirst of Muslims to the end of the world so that each generation is utilized with one of them? He, Exalted He is, also said:

8- "We divided them into twelve nations. We directed Moses by revelation when his (thirsty) people asked him for water: 'Strike the rock with your staff;' out of it there gushed forth twelve springs so that each group knew its own place for water. We gave them the shade of clouds and sent down to them manna and quails (saying): 'Eat of the good things We have provided for you,' (but they rebelled.) To Us they did no harm but they harmed their own souls." (Quran 7:160).

Verily those who did not follow those twelve leaders, harmed non but themselves. The above verse suggests that the nation of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF) in the span of history (after his demise till the day of judgment) are divided into 12 intervals of time which coincides with one Imam who is assigned as leader for

them.

9- In the next verse Allah said:

"And when it was said unto them: 'Dwell in this Town and eat therein as you wish, and say Repentance, and enter the Gate (of the city) in a posture of humility, in order that We forgive you your sins and increase (the portion of) those who do good.'" (Quran 7:161)

or:

"And when We said: 'Enter this Town and eat of the plenty therein as you wish; but enter the Gate (of the City) with humility in posture and in words so that We forgive you your sins and increase (the portion of) those who do good.'" (Quran 2:58).

The Gate in the above verses has a striking similarity with one of the attributes of Imam Ali (as) mentioned by our Prophet (PBUH&HF) that is: "The Gate of the City of Knowledge."

The Messenger of Allah said: "I am the City of Knowledge, and Ali is its Gate. So whoever intends to enter the City and the Wisdom, he should enter from its Gate."

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 201,637

- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, pp 126-127,226

- Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p635, Tradition #1081

and many more...

10- Furthermore the following Prophetic tradition gives the utmost similarity with the above two verses:

The Messenger of Allah said: "My Ahlul-Bait are like the Gate of Repentance of the Children of Israel; whoever entered therein was forgiven."

Sunni References:

- Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haithami, v9, p168.

- al-Awsat, by al-Tabarani, Tradition #18

- Arba'in, by al-Nabahani, p216

- A fairly similar tradition reported by al-Darqunti and by Ibn Hajar al-Haithami in al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqa, Ch. 9, section 2, p193, in which the Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Ali is the Gate of Repentance, whoever entered therein was a believer and whoever went out was an unbeliever."

11- Also Allah (SWT) stated in Quran:

Lo! The number of the months with Allah is TWELVE which is Allah's ordinance when He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred. That is the firm religion. So wrong not your souls in them. (Quran9:36)

In the Sira of Ibn Hisham, there is an extra sentence of the Messenger of Allah which is, in fact, the verse of Quran. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said:

"'Postponement of a sacred month is only an excess of disbelief whereby those who disbelieve are misled; they allow it one year and forbid it another year that they may make up the number of months which God has hallowed so that they permit what God has forbidden (Quran 9:37), and forbid what God has allowed. Time has completed its cycle and is as it was on the day that God created the heavens and the earth. The number of

months with God is twelve. Four of them are sacred."

Sunni references:

- Sira, by Ibn Hisham at the end of Chapter of "Farewell Pilgrimage", p968

- The Life of Muhammad (English translation of Sira Ibn Hisham), Translated into English by A. Guillaume, 1955 Edition, London, p651

12- In a tradition on the authority of Jabir (ra), Imam Muhammad al-Baqir, the fifth Imam of Ahlul-Bait,

interprets the above verse which is as follows:

Jabir said: I asked Imam Muhammad al-Baqir about the meaning of the verse: "Verily the number of the months … (9:36)." He (as) breathed long (out of sorrow) and said: "O Jabir, The 'year' is my grandfather, the messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF), and his family are its 'months' who are the twelve Imams, and are … (naming the Imams one by one). They are the Proofs of Allah on His creation, and Trusties of His revelations and His knowledge. And Those of 'four sacred who are the firm religion' are those four who have the same name, and are Ali, the Commander of Faithful (as), and my father Ali Ibn al-Husain (as), and later Ali Ibn Musa (as), and Ali Ibn Muhammad (as). Thus acknowledging these four is 'the firm religion, so wrong not your souls in them' and believe in all of them to be guided."

Shi'i reference: Kitab al-Ghaiba, by Shaikh Tusi.

13- The 12 Imams are from Ahll al bayat a.s. These are not separated from Quran.

If, we carry out further research to see where this word (Imam), then the following facts are revealed:

Imam The total count of the verse which contain the word (Imam) is 12 where this word

has been used exactly 12 times in the honor of these Imams from Ahl al bayat. A.S.The same resemblance has been defined in the table given in link shown below:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/139724408/Imams-Table

Thus it is proven that these 12 Imams from Ahl al bayat are kept pure and sinless. They are never separated from Quran. We have been ordered by the Prophet to follow Ahl Albayat (Masoomeen a.s.) including these 12 Imams in order to keep ourselves on Sirat e mustaqeem thus avoiding astray.

Edited May 6, 2013 by skamran110

[Muslim2010]

The following and obeying 12 Imams is confirmed in the light of Shia, Sunni sources and Quranic verses. It leaves no room for the believers except to believe the truth exposed that 12 imam / leaders from Ahl albayat should be followed in order to avoid astray.

[guest050817]

Worth a bump

[islam_mercy]

This is in reference to the question that: Where did the twelve Imams (as) come from and why should the number of Imams be twelve and twelve only?

1- As a matter of fact, the answer is right inside the Sahih al-Bukhari and Muslim. There are numerous Sunni collections of traditions which all recorded the following authentic tradition from the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Here, for the sake of brevity, I only quote from Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal.

(i)- In Sahih al-Bukhari (Arabic-English version), the tradition is as follows:

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 9.329

Narrated Jabir Ibn Samura:

I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve commanders (Amir)." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, the Prophet added, "All of them will be from Quraish."

(ii) In Musnad Ahmad, the tradition is as follows:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "There shall be twelve Caliphs for this community, all of them from Quraish."

Reference: Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v5, p106

(iii) In Sahih Muslim, the traditions are as follows:

Narrated Jabir Ibn Samura:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The matter (life) will not end, until it is passed by twelve Caliphs." He then whispered a sentence. I asked my father what the Prophet said. He said, the Prophet added: "All of them will be from Quraish."

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1452, Tradition #5

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1009, Tradition #4477

(iv) Again from Sahih Muslim:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The affairs of people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by the twelve men."

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #6

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4478

(v) Also:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been twelve Caliphs."

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #7

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4480

(vi) Again:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraish."

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v3, p1453, Tradition #10

- Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter DCCLIV (titled: The People are subservient to the Quraish and the Caliphate is the Right of the Quraish), v3, p1010, Tradition #4483

(vii) More Sunni references of similar traditions:

- Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v4, p501

- Sunan Abu Dawud, v2, p421 (three traditions).

- Others such as al-Tiyalasi, Ibn al-Athir, etc.

(viii) Also in another wording, the Messenger of Allah uses the word "Imam" instead of "Caliph". It is widely narrated that:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "The Imams are from Quraish"

Sunni references:

- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p149

- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal

- Sahih al-Nisa'i, from Anas Ibn Malik

- Sunan, by al-Baihaqi

- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqa, by Ibn Hajar al-Haithami, Ch. 11, section 2, p287

2- As you may know, the Followers of the Members of the House of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) refer to these 12 Caliphs as of their 12 Imams starting with Imam Ali (as) and ending with Imam Mahdi (as) the leader of our time. There are Caliphs because Allah made them Caliphs (They are vice-regents of Allah on the earth). With the passage of time and through historical events, we know that by the above traditions the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) meant the twelve Imams from his Ahlul-Bait who are the descendants of the Prophet since we have no other 12 pure candidates in the history of Islam upon whose righteousness all Muslims agree. It is interesting to know that even the enemies of Shi'a have NOT been able to find any fault in the virtues of the twelve Imams of Shi'a. Moreover these twelve Imams came one after another without any gap.

3- It is now clear that the only way to interpret the previously mentioned traditions which are narrated by al-Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud and al-Tirmidhi, al-Hakim, and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal is to accept that it refers to the Twelve Imams from the Prophet's Ahlul-Bait, because they were, in their times, the most knowledgeable, the most illustrious, the most god-fearing, the most pious, the best in personal virtues, and the most honored before Allah; and their knowledge was derived from their ancestor (the Prophet) through their fathers. These are the Ahlul-Bait whose sinlessness, flawlessness, and purity is confirmed by the holy Quran (the last sentence of verse 33:33).

4- Also the above mentioned traditions of the Prophet which are considered to be authentic by the Sunnis, proves beyond doubt that the concept of "Twelve Imams" can NOT be a Twelver Shi'ites concoction! It is amazing that despite the acknowledgment of al-Bukhari and Muslim and other prominent Sunni scholars about the twelve Imams, the Sunnis always stop at the four Caliphs! More interestingly, there are Sunni reports in which the Messenger of Allah named these twelve members of his Ahlul-Bait one by one starting with Imam Ali (as) and ending with Imam al-Mahdi (as). (see Yanabi' al-Mawadda, by al-Qunduzi al-Hanafi).

5- There is an interesting tradition in Sahih al-Bukhari as well as Sahih Muslim, in which the Prophet (PBUH&HF) said the following:

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 9.422

Narrated Abu Sa'id al-Khudri:

The Prophet said, "You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a hole of a mastigure (lizard), you would follow them." We said, "O Allah's Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?" He said, "Whom else?"

As the above tradition in Sahih al-Bukhari confirms, the Prophet stated that the history of the Children of Israel will be repeated for Muslims. In fact, Quran has mentioned the stories of the Children of Israel to give us a way to understand the true history of Islam itself.

6-There are many striking similarities in this regard written in Quran including the similarities of the leaders and the similarities of the people.

Few of them are given here. Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty, said:

"Surely Allah aforetime took a covenant from the Children of Israel and We appointed twelve leaders among them" (Quran 5:12)

- Who are those twelve leaders among the Children of Muhammad (PBUH&HF)?

7- Allah, Exalted, also said:

"And when Moses prayed for water for his (thirsty) people; We said: 'Strike the rock with your staff.' Then from there surged forth twelve springs so that each group knew its own place to drink." (Quran 2:60).

- Who are those twelve springs (streams) of knowledge who quench the thirst of Muslims to the end of the world so that each generation is utilized with one of them? He, Exalted He is, also said:

8- "We divided them into twelve nations. We directed Moses by revelation when his (thirsty) people asked him for water: 'Strike the rock with your staff;' out of it there gushed forth twelve springs so that each group knew its own place for water. We gave them the shade of clouds and sent down to them manna and quails (saying): 'Eat of the good things We have provided for you,' (but they rebelled.) To Us they did no harm but they harmed their own souls." (Quran 7:160).

Verily those who did not follow those twelve leaders, harmed non but themselves. The above verse suggests that the nation of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF) in the span of history (after his demise till the day of judgment) are divided into 12 intervals of time which coincides with one Imam who is assigned as leader for

them.

9- In the next verse Allah said:

"And when it was said unto them: 'Dwell in this Town and eat therein as you wish, and say Repentance, and enter the Gate (of the city) in a posture of humility, in order that We forgive you your sins and increase (the portion of) those who do good.'" (Quran 7:161)

or:

"And when We said: 'Enter this Town and eat of the plenty therein as you wish; but enter the Gate (of the City) with humility in posture and in words so that We forgive you your sins and increase (the portion of) those who do good.'" (Quran 2:58).

The Gate in the above verses has a striking similarity with one of the attributes of Imam Ali (as) mentioned by our Prophet (PBUH&HF) that is: "The Gate of the City of Knowledge."

The Messenger of Allah said: "I am the City of Knowledge, and Ali is its Gate. So whoever intends to enter the City and the Wisdom, he should enter from its Gate."

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 201,637

- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, pp 126-127,226

- Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p635, Tradition #1081

and many more...

10- Furthermore the following Prophetic tradition gives the utmost similarity with the above two verses:

The Messenger of Allah said: "My Ahlul-Bait are like the Gate of Repentance of the Children of Israel; whoever entered therein was forgiven."

Sunni References:

- Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haithami, v9, p168.

- al-Awsat, by al-Tabarani, Tradition #18

- Arba'in, by al-Nabahani, p216

- A fairly similar tradition reported by al-Darqunti and by Ibn Hajar al-Haithami in al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqa, Ch. 9, section 2, p193, in which the Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Ali is the Gate of Repentance, whoever entered therein was a believer and whoever went out was an unbeliever."

11- Also Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì stated in Quran:

Lo! The number of the months with Allah is TWELVE which is Allah's ordinance when He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred. That is the firm religion. So wrong not your souls in them. (Quran9:36)

In the Sira of Ibn Hisham, there is an extra sentence of the Messenger of Allah which is, in fact, the verse of Quran. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said:

"'Postponement of a sacred month is only an excess of disbelief whereby those who disbelieve are misled; they allow it one year and forbid it another year that they may make up the number of months which God has hallowed so that they permit what God has forbidden (Quran 9:37), and forbid what God has allowed. Time has completed its cycle and is as it was on the day that God created the heavens and the earth. The number of

months with God is twelve. Four of them are sacred."

Sunni references:

- Sira, by Ibn Hisham at the end of Chapter of "Farewell Pilgrimage", p968

- The Life of Muhammad (English translation of Sira Ibn Hisham), Translated into English by A. Guillaume, 1955 Edition, London, p651

12- In a tradition on the authority of Jabir (ra), Imam Muhammad al-Baqir, the fifth Imam of Ahlul-Bait,

interprets the above verse which is as follows:

Jabir said: I asked Imam Muhammad al-Baqir about the meaning of the verse: "Verily the number of the months … (9:36)." He (as) breathed long (out of sorrow) and said: "O Jabir, The 'year' is my grandfather, the messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF), and his family are its 'months' who are the twelve Imams, and are … (naming the Imams one by one). They are the Proofs of Allah on His creation, and Trusties of His revelations and His knowledge. And Those of 'four sacred who are the firm religion' are those four who have the same name, and are Ali, the Commander of Faithful (as), and my father Ali Ibn al-Husain (as), and later Ali Ibn Musa (as), and Ali Ibn Muhammad (as). Thus acknowledging these four is 'the firm religion, so wrong not your souls in them' and believe in all of them to be guided."

Shi'i reference: Kitab al-Ghaiba, by Shaikh Tusi.

13- The 12 Imams are from Ahll al bayat a.s. These are not separated from Quran.

If, we carry out further research to see where this word (Imam), then the following facts are revealed:

 

Imam The total count of the verse which contain the word (Imam) is 12 where this word

has been used exactly 12 times in the honor of these Imams from Ahl al bayat. A.S.The same resemblance has been defined in the table given in link shown below:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/139724408/Imams-Table

Thus it is proven that these 12 Imams from Ahl al bayat are kept pure and sinless. They are never separated from Quran. We have been ordered by the Prophet to follow Ahl Albayat (Masoomeen a.s.) including these 12 Imams in order to keep ourselves on Sirat e mustaqeem thus avoiding astray.

 

 

- item (1) : it is very difficult to accept that the hadiths mentioned are directly attributable to the 12 Shia imams, as really aside from Imam Ali (as), none of the others really reached the position of Khalifah, nor were most of them ever in the position of real governance. In most cases the Shia Imams spent most of their lives prosecuted and/or even passed away early in their lives. Furthermore, the claim of the 12 Shia Imams has always been that they were strictly from Bani Hashim, but all the hadiths you quoted say Quraish which envelopes Bani Hashim.

 

- item (5) : I think you have taken a wrong meaning for that hadith. The hadith I think (Allah o Aalam) is highlighting the fact that muslims would eventually portray the same negative attributes that came from the Jews and Christians that lead them astray. For example, love of this world, competing for Dunia, hostility towards each other, giving divine attributes to those that are only human, innovations in religion and etc.

 

- items 6-12 : your conclusions and arguments are odd. In some cases you are going with what you think is the interpretation of a certain Quranic verse. Why would Allah SWT speak direct and explicity terms about the previous Prophets and 12 tribes of Israel and etc, but then speak in poetic or allegorical terms regarding the 12 Shia Imams? There is no verse in the Quran that explicitly even touches the concept of divine Imams after our Prophet (pbuh), yet alone mention they are 12 with their names. Remember, Quran comes before any hadith. Our Prophet (pbuh) said that his hadiths must always be compared to the Quran, and where discrepancies are noted, that hadith should not be used. Hence you cannot prove a concept of Usul of Deen using only hadith. There must be basis for it or an explicity mention of it in the Quran.

Edited May 23, 2015 by islam_mercy

[hasanhh]

(salam)

 

As factoids, these two really "complicate" any analysis.

 

1] About 1900, the Colonial Office report said there were over 1 million syeds in British India.

 

2] I read an article 3-4 years ago which listed people with the correct DNA match and how these Westerners' lineage can be traced back to Fatima is not known.

[maes]

- item (1) : it is very difficult to accept that the hadiths mentioned are directly attributable to the 12 Shia imams, as really aside from Imam Ali (as), none of the others really reached the position of Khalifah, nor were most of them ever in the position of real governance. In most cases the Shia Imams spent most of their lives prosecuted and/or even passed away early in their lives. Furthermore, the claim of the 12 Shia Imams has always been that they were strictly from Bani Hashim, but all the hadiths you quoted say Quraish which envelopes Bani Hashim.

حَدَّثَنَا الْأَسْوَدُ بْنُ عَامِرٍ ، حَدَّثَنَا شَرِيكٌ ، عَنِ الرُّكَيْنِ ، عَنِ الْقَاسِمِ بْنِ حَسَّانَ ، عَنْ زَيْدِ بْنِ ثَابِتٍ ، قَالَ : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : " إِنِّي تَارِكٌ فِيكُمْ خَلِيفَتَيْنِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ ، حَبْلٌ مَمْدُودٌ مَا بَيْنَ السَّمَاءِ وَالْأَرْضِ أَوْ مَا بَيْنَ السَّمَاءِ إِلَى الْأَرْضِ ، وَعِتْرَتِي أَهْلُ بَيْتِي ، وَإِنَّهُمَا لَنْ يَتَفَرَّقَا حَتَّى يَرِدَا عَلَيَّ الْحَوْضَ " .

From the book, Musnad Ahmad

 

Muhammad PBUH, said, summarized as "I leave among you two caliphs, Quran and Ahlul Bait"

http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/display_hbook.php?bk_no=121&pid=62017&hid=21043

-------------------

     

the unbelievers say: 'why has no sign been sent down to him from his lord? ' you are only a warner, and there is a guide for every nation. Quran 13:7

 

There are hadithes which say Muhammad (PBUH) is the warner and the guider is a man from Bani Hashim and in some of them it is mentioned Ali (as) is the guider.

http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/hadithServices.php?type=2&cid=6310&sid=5722

-------------------

 

إِنَّ اللَّهَ اصْطَفَى كِنَانَةَ مِنْ وَلَدِ إِسْمَاعِيلَ وَاصْطَفَى قُرَيْشًا مِنْ كِنَانَةَ وَاصْطَفَى مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ بَنِي هَاشِمٍ وَاصْطَفَانِي مِنْ بَنِي هَاشِم

http://www.al-eman.com/الكتب/صحيح%20مسلم%20المسمى%20بـ%20«المسند%20الصحيح%20المختصر%20من%20السنن%20بنقل%20العدل%20عن%20العدل%20إلى%20رسول%20الله%20صلى%20الله%20عليه%20وسلم»%20**/1%20-%20باب%20فضل%20نسب%20النبي%20صلى%20الله%20عليه%20وسلم%20وتسليم%20الحجر%20عليه%20قبل%20النبوة%20%20%20%20-(0)/i1&d5190&c&s%20كنانة%20&sttrue&sctrue&p1

 

from the book Sahih Moslim :

Allah elected Kinan among children of Ishmail and the he elected Quraish among the children of Kinan and then elected Bani Hashim among Quraish and he elected Muhammad (pbuh) among Bani Hashim.

Edited May 23, 2015 by maes

[islam_mercy]

 

حَدَّثَنَا الْأَسْوَدُ بْنُ عَامِرٍ ، حَدَّثَنَا شَرِيكٌ ، عَنِ الرُّكَيْنِ ، عَنِ الْقَاسِمِ بْنِ حَسَّانَ ، عَنْ زَيْدِ بْنِ ثَابِتٍ ، قَالَ : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : " إِنِّي تَارِكٌ فِيكُمْ خَلِيفَتَيْنِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ ، حَبْلٌ مَمْدُودٌ مَا بَيْنَ السَّمَاءِ وَالْأَرْضِ أَوْ مَا بَيْنَ السَّمَاءِ إِلَى الْأَرْضِ ، وَعِتْرَتِي أَهْلُ بَيْتِي ، وَإِنَّهُمَا لَنْ يَتَفَرَّقَا حَتَّى يَرِدَا عَلَيَّ الْحَوْضَ " .

From the book, Musnad Ahmad

 

Muhammad PBUH, said, summarized as "I leave among you two caliphs, Quran and Ahlul Bait"

http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/display_hbook.php?bk_no=121&pid=62017&hid=21043

-------------------

     

the unbelievers say: 'why has no sign been sent down to him from his lord? ' you are only a warner, and there is a guide for every nation. Quran 13:7

 

There are hadithes which say Muhammad (pbuh) is the warner and the guider is a man from Bani Hashim and in some of them it is mentioned Ali (as) is the guider.

http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/hadithServices.php?type=2&cid=6310&sid=5722

-------------------

 

إِنَّ اللَّهَ اصْطَفَى كِنَانَةَ مِنْ وَلَدِ إِسْمَاعِيلَ وَاصْطَفَى قُرَيْشًا مِنْ كِنَانَةَ وَاصْطَفَى مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ بَنِي هَاشِمٍ وَاصْطَفَانِي مِنْ بَنِي هَاشِم

http://www.al-eman.com/الكتب/صحيح%20مسلم%20المسمى%20بـ%20«المسند%20الصحيح%20المختصر%20من%20السنن%20بنقل%20العدل%20عن%20العدل%20إلى%20رسول%20الله%20صلى%20الله%20عليه%20وسلم»%20**/1%20-%20باب%20فضل%20نسب%20النبي%20صلى%20الله%20عليه%20وسلم%20وتسليم%20الحجر%20عليه%20قبل%20النبوة%20%20%20%20-(0)/i1&d5190&c&s%20كنانة%20&sttrue&sctrue&p1

 

from the book Sahih Moslim :

Allah elected Kinan among children of Ishmail and the he elected Quraish among the children of Kinan and then elected Bani Hashim among Quraish and he elected Muhammad (pbuh) among Bani Hashim.

 

 

1) For the hadith from Musnad Imam Hanbal : Now this is a good hadith to bring as it is more clear and direct. So who are the Ahlul Bayt here? Are they not defined from Hadith Al Kisa to be Imam Ali, Fatima, Imam Hasan, Imam Hussein (Peace upon All of Them) ?

 

2) The Ayat of Quran you brought : Ok. Again I think you are misnterpreting here. I think ( Allah o Aalam) that this refers to the fact that Allah SWT did not leave a nation without a Prophet. If you think Imam Ali (as) is the guide here, so he was just the guide for the Arabs/muslims you are saying?

 

3) For the hadith from Sahih Muslim : This is pointing out how the Prophet (PBUH) was selected and that Bani Hashim was special from Quraish. What point are you trying to make here?

[maes]

1) For the hadith from Musnad Imam Hanbal : Now this is a good hadith to bring as it is more clear and direct. So who are the Ahlul Bayt here? Are they not defined from Hadith Al Kisa to be Imam Ali, Fatima, Imam Hasan, Imam Hussein (Peace upon All of Them) ?

 

You are right Ahlul Bait is exactly Ahlul Kisa, even there are hadithes in the Sunni books from Umul Mumenin Aisha and Umme Salamah two wives of Muhammad PBUH, who explicitly say that those five persons are Ahlul Kisa. When Shias say Ahklul Bait they mean Ahlul Kisa. Regardless of the hadithes, it is not logical that we consider both Aisha and Ali as Ahlul Bait. If we refer to verse 33:33 of Quran and hadithes of Aisha herself, it becomes very vivid.

 

 

2) The Ayat of Quran you brought : Ok. Again I think you are misnterpreting here. I think ( Allah o Aalam) that this refers to the fact that Allah SWT did not leave a nation without a Prophet. If you think Imam Ali (as) is the guide here, so he was just the guide for the Arabs/muslims you are saying?

Well, there are hadithes from Ali himself and ibn Abbas in the Sunni books which say the guider of this Ummah is a man from Bani Hashim and Ibn Abbas explicitly says it is Ali.

 

3) For the hadith from Sahih Muslim : This is pointing out how the Prophet (pbuh) was selected and that Bani Hashim was special from Quraish. What point are you trying to make here?

The point is Exactly what you said : "Bani Hashim was special from Quraish"

This is not something odd. This is consistent with the history of monotheistic religions. Specially when we remember that Muhammad PBUH said Ali to him is like Aaron to Moses, unless Ali is not a prophet. After Moses, prophets and guiders emerged among the children of Aaron.

They said to Mary "o sister of Haron, your father was never an evil man, nor was your mother unchaste." -Quran 19:28

 

From Torah Exodus 28, God wants Moses to give the religion to Aaron and his sons :

 

""1“Have Aaron your brother brought to you from among the Israelites, along with his sons Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, so they may serve me as priests. 2Make sacred garments for your brother Aaron to give him dignity and honor. 3Tell all the skilled workers to whom I have given wisdom in such matters that they are to make garments for Aaron, for his consecration, so he may serve me as priest. 4These are the garments they are to make: a breastpiece, an ephod, a robe, a woven tunic, a turban and a sash. They are to make these sacred garments for your brother Aaron and his sons, so they may serve me as priests."""

 

Also Israel tribe should obey Aaron :

Thus Aaron will always bear the means of making decisions for the Israelites over his heart before the Lord. Exodus 28:30

 

The family of Levi among Israel tribe is the same as Bani Haishim among Ummah of Islam and the family of Aaron among Israel tribe is the same as the family of Ali in the ummah of Islam. The family of Aaron has a great respect among Judaism, he and Moses both are from the family of Levi. 

 

The same as Israel tribe, Ummah of Islam betrayed and ignored the truth ......., Israel tribe is mentioned a lot in Quran, so that Muslims learn. But they do not learn !

Truth is vivid like the sun in the middle of day.

Peace be upon Fatima, her father, her husband and her two sons, and the secret which is hidden in Fartima.

Edited May 24, 2015 by maes

[islam_mercy]

You are right Ahlul Bait is exactly Ahlul Kisa, even there are hadithes in the Sunni books from Umul Mumenin Aisha and Umme Salamah two wives of Muhammad PBUH, who explicitly say that those five persons are Ahlul Kisa. When Shias say Ahklul Bait they mean Ahlul Kisa. Regardless of the hadithes, it is not logical that we consider both Aisha and Ali as Ahlul Bait. If we refer to verse 33:33 of Quran and hadithes of Aisha herself, it becomes very vivid.

 

Ok, so this is perfect. I fully agree with you and honestly have zero doubt about the status of Imam Ali, Fatimah, Imam Hassan and Imam Hussein. I just can't understand where the 9 Imams came from?? I know there are some hadiths where the Prophet (pbuh) supposedly states their exact names and numbers and such, but honestly it really feels like a big and disconnected jump out of no where going from the well established position of the Ahlul Kisa from Quran and Sunnah to the rest of the Imams. I really hope you can clarify this part for me.

 

And by clarification, it would mean primarily through Quran as that comes first before hadith.

Edited May 25, 2015 by islam_mercy

[maes]

Ok, so this is perfect. I fully agree with you and honestly have zero doubt about the status of Imam Ali, Fatimah, Imam Hassan and Imam Hussein. I just can't understand where the 9 Imams came from?? I know there are some hadiths where the Prophet (pbuh) supposedly states their exact names and numbers and such, but honestly it really feels like a big and disconnected jump out of no where going from the well established position of the Ahlul Kisa from Quran and Sunnah to the rest of the Imams. I really hope you can clarify this part for me.

 

And by clarification, it would mean primarily through Quran as that comes first before hadith.

Your questions were and are my questions too.

I tried to figure it out. I found three signs of an Imam in the Sahih hadithes of Shias.

 

1- Imam has the sword of Muhammad (pbuh) which I think it should be Zulfiqar. This is also consistent with divine books. If you ask Jews and Christians and take a look at Torah you see that one of signs of Messiah, is a double edged sword. Jesus had no any sword ! It means Mahdi has the double edged sword, Zulfiqar, However this is an odd sign.

 

2- Each Imam writes a testament to the next imam. There is a Sahih hadith which shows Hussain ibn Ali had given his testament to Umul Mumenin Umme Salamah ,wife of Muhammad PBUH, before that he went to Karbala, and then Umme Salama gave the testament to Ali ibn Hussain after the event of Karbala.

http://www.imamiyya.com/hadith/usul-kafi/book-4/chapter-68

 

3- Knowledge. I think this is the most important sign. I think religion is nothing but knowledge and love. An Imam is the most knowledgeable person among humanity ! Even western historians agree that Muhammad ibn Ali and Jafar ibn Muhammad were poles of knowledge and science. Muslims (Sunnies and Shias) owe a lot to Jafar.

When Mahdi returns and people see his knowledge and science they have no choice unless to respect him. All the knowledgeable people respect the knowledge. And we are living in the era of knowledge and science.

 

You can find some of Sahih hadithes about Imams in this source.

http://www.imamiyya.com/hadith/usul-kafi/book-4

Edited May 25, 2015 by maes

[Iskandarovich]

'And they will all be from Quraish' sounds like propaganda to me. It was probably 'and they will all be from my progeny' or something like that. 

The 'Quraish' version is an edited one and a justification for the reigns of the first three caliphs, the Umayyads and the Abbasides.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Iskandarovich

[islam_mercy]

Your questions were and are my questions too.

I tried to figure it out. I found three signs of an Imam in the Sahih hadithes of Shias.

 

1- Imam has the sword of Muhammad (pbuh) which I think it should be Zulfiqar. This is also consistent with divine books. If you ask Jews and Christians and take a look at Torah you see that one of signs of Messiah, is a double edged sword. Jesus had no any sword ! It means Mahdi has the double edged sword, Zulfiqar, However this is an odd sign.

 

2- Each Imam writes a testament to the next imam. There is a Sahih hadith which shows Hussain ibn Ali had given his testament to Umul Mumenin Umme Salamah ,wife of Muhammad PBUH, before that he went to Karbala, and then Umme Salama gave the testament to Ali ibn Hussain after the event of Karbala.

http://www.imamiyya.com/hadith/usul-kafi/book-4/chapter-68

 

3- Knowledge. I think this is the most important sign. I think religion is nothing but knowledge and love. An Imam is the most knowledgeable person among humanity ! Even western historians agree that Muhammad ibn Ali and Jafar ibn Muhammad were poles of knowledge and science. Muslims (Sunnies and Shias) owe a lot to Jafar.

When Mahdi returns and people see his knowledge and science they have no choice unless to respect him. All the knowledgeable people respect the knowledge. And we are living in the era of knowledge and science.

 

You can find some of Sahih hadithes about Imams in this source.

http://www.imamiyya.com/hadith/usul-kafi/book-4

 

Very good brother. I am very happy to finally have a constructive discussion with someone on this website, as usually there is alot of misunderstanding.

 

I understand the hadith's about the transfer of will from the Imams and I have read some of them. I just think recognizing Imam Ali. Fatimah, Imam Hassan and Imam Hussein primarily is of the outmost importance and has a stronger support as it is supported from Quran and Shia/Sunni Hadith.

 

So at this point, I really ponder about the Sunni/Shia divide. Let's forget for a second all the historical events and distractions of what happened/what was supposed to happen, who did what and etc. as really the fulfillment of the Hadith Thaqalayn in our lifetime is not these events but yet which sources we use for obtaining and learning our Islamic Ahkam, Akhlaq, Adab, Divine Laws and etc (sources of which ultimately must lead to the Prophet (PBUH)). When I look at the Sunni's and their books and etc., I do not see in any way that they have neglected the main figures of Imam Ali, Fatimah, Imam Hassan and Imam Hussein. Their books of hadiths have many narrations from these individuals, obviously the most being from Imam Ali. Furthermore, their main Fiqh Imams (Hanifa, Malik, Hanbal and Shafii) in one way or another were either students or learned from the family of the Prophet. I understand  there are some practices they do that were not in agreement with even Imam Ali (like Salat Tarawih), but overall in the grand scheme of things it is not like they completely abandoned the main figures or the family of the Prophet (PBUH) in their religious learnings/teachings. So I am really trying to understand at this point, are Sunni's really on the wrong path? Are we and them that different? Did they really fail in following Hadith Thaqalayn? It is really hard to believe so. What are your thoughts on this brother?

[maes]

 

 So I am really trying to understand at this point, are Sunni's really on the wrong path? Are we and them that different? Did they really fail in following Hadith Thaqalayn? It is really hard to believe so. What are your thoughts on this brother?

Well, my brother, God is the justest and the most merciful. We have Sahih hadithes from Ahlul Bait that all Muslims are included in the intercession of Muhammad PBUH and his Ahlul Bait. Only God can judge about the hearts of people. Whoever reaches a truth and then he ignores it, he deserves punishment. No matter he is Sunni or Shia. Mamun one of the corrupted kings of Abbasid monarchy, who killed Imam Al-Riza, was somehow a Shia, but not a true Shia. Those who have more knowledge they have more responsibilities.

Of course there are and were many fair Sunni scholars who loved and helped Ahlul Bait. Of course most of those who fought for the sake of Ali ibn abi Talib, they would not consider Ali as an Imam or the first caliph. All of them are respected. Even Nisai one of well known Sunni scholars lost his life just because he wrote a book in favor of Ali and he refused to write a book for Muawiah !

They would annoy imam Shafei and they would call him a rafedhi ! just because he loved Ahlul Bait.

However some of their main scholars like Bukhari did censor Ali, and he relied mostly on a converted Jew like Abu-Huraira.

The big problem is not that Sunnies have forgotten the Thaqalain the big problem is that public of Shias have forgotten Thaqalain ! Many of people are just Sunni or Shia or a Jew or ..... just because they are born so.

True follwers of the truth are like Salman, he who changed three religions ! It is not easy, not at all. Not only he became a Muslim but he reached the ultimate of faith, and he was a true Shia, as Muhammad PBUH said.

If we Shias, were really Shias, Allah would send the Imam Mahdi (as), unless we should doubt in the justice of Allah.

But I feel, Muslims and Shias are becoming more aware, and I feel we are getting near. We do not know when, but it is in front of us.

At least we can be like Uwais-Al-Qarani, who did not meet Muhammad PBUH, but his heart was connected with Muhammad (pbuh) and Muhammad was aware of him.

And now we can be connected with Mahdi.

Edited May 26, 2015 by maes