Sayyed Fadlullah On Sea Food

[Nima]

Following is a detailed explanation by His Eminence: “In this respect, the Holy Quran gives a general rule mentioned in the Ayahs that talk about the permissibility of eating what is in the sea, for Allah says: ‘Lawful to you is the game of the sea and its food, a provision for you and for the travelers, and the game of the land is forbidden to you so long as you are on pilgrimage, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, to Whom you shall be gathered,’ (05: 96). As for the traditions (Hadiths), in this respect, they are contradictory between the ruling of the permissibility of whatever is in the seas even if it does not have scales on it, if it is fish, and the ruling of the forbiddance. Some Shiite jurisprudents tried to solve this contradiction in several ways, one of which was referring the permissibility Hadiths to the Imams considering that they gave this ruling out of fear for their followers (Taqiyya), meaning that it does not convey the actual ruling, while forbiddance Hadiths actually does. Others refer the forbiddance to the abomination of this act or saying that the forbiddance is the ruling after taking into consideration all relevant traditions…”

He adds: “On our part, we adopt the narrations that conform to the Holy Book and reflect permissibility, for adopting what conforms to the Book comes in first before referring the permissibility ruling to Taqiyya. If the traditions continue to be contradictory and there was no way to reach a consensus in any way, one should refer to the general rulings in the Book, which, in this case, talk about the permissibility.”

He also confirms that “some of our Shiite jurisprudents, such as the Second Martyr, considered that the abomination stands out before anything else, and so are the opinions of Al-Muhaqqiq Al-Hilli, Al-Muhaqqiq As-Sibzawari and Al-Muqaddas Al-Ardabili, which is actually narrated on the authority of Al-Qadi, the student of Sheikh At-Tousi. Therefore, the permissibility ruling includes all kinds of sea animals and seafood, even if they were not fish with scales.”

[The Fatwas of the late Sayyed (ra) and the juristic office of His Eminence, the Religious Authority, Sayyed Muhammad Hussein Fadlullah (ra)]

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/Editorials/Shariah_Seafood.htm#.UYGWZ8sayK0

[Jahangiram]

WOOHOO! I've been dying for some lobster lately.

[Wizdom]

WOOHOO! I've been dying for some lobster lately.

Moreover, it must be noted that some sea animals, such as lobsters, are placed alive in boiled water to kill them, which renders the permissibility of eating them problematic; therefore, a new way for killing such animals should be devised to ensure that they die after fishing them without placing them into water once again.”

[guest 34193]

There's some good arguments that can be made for the karaha vs tahreem of such sea animals, but that aya is not one of them and it's surprising he would cite it. Clearly the context of the verse is referring to fishing being allowed for the person in ihram vs the forbiddance of their hunting land animals while in that state, and isn't about what animals in general are or are not allowed to be eaten. If we were to extract that general meaning from the first part of it, then what would prevent one from arguing all land animals are thus haram due to the second part?

[Ali-Reza]

I have seen the same thing to happen with Shrimps.

[Haydar Husayn]

There's some good arguments that can be made for the karaha vs tahreem of such sea animals, but that aya is not one of them and it's surprising he would cite it. Clearly the context of the verse is referring to fishing being allowed for the person in ihram vs the forbiddance of their hunting land animals while in that state, and isn't about what animals in general are or are not allowed to be eaten. If we were to extract that general meaning from the first part of it, then what would prevent one from arguing all land animals are thus haram due to the second part?

Well, it's hard to imagine a type of food would be halal in ihram, but not otherwise. While the opposite isn't really true.

[Nima]

'avjar7' said:

On 6/11/2010 at 5:25 PM, avjar7 said:

‎ علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن عمر بن اذينة، عن محمد

ابن مسلم، وزرارة، عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام أنهما سألاه عن أكل لحوم الحمر الاهلية؟ قال: نهى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله عنها وعن أكلها يوم خيبر وإنما نهى عن أكلها في ذلك الوقت لانها كانت حمولة الناس(1) وإنما الحرام ما حرم الله عزوجل في القرآن

Muhammad ibn Muslim and Zuraarah from Abee Ja'far عليه السلام that they asked him about eating the meat of domesticated donkeys. He said: Rasool Allah صلى الله عليه وآله prohibited eating that on the day of Khaybar. He only prohibited it in that specific time because they (the donkeys) were used to carry people. And the only haraam is what Allah has made haraam in the Qur'an.

‎محمد بن الحسن باسناده عن الحسين بن سعيد ، عن فضالة ، عن أبان بن عثمان ، عن زرارة ، عن أحدهما ( عليهما السلام ) انه قال : إن أكل الغراب ليس بحرام ، إنما الحرام ما حرم الله في كتابه ، ولكن الأنفس تتنزه عن كثير من ذلك تقززا .

Zuraarah from one of the imaams عليهم السلام who said: Eating raven/crow is not haraam, the only haraam is what Allah has made haraam in His book. But, the self is averse to much of that and is repulsed.

محمد بن الحسن باسناده عن الحسين بن سعيد ، عن ابن أبي عمير ، وفضالة ، عن ابن فضال ، عن ابن بكير ، وجميل ، عن زرارة ، عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال : ما حرم الله في القرآن من دابة الا الخنزير ، ولكنه النكرة

‎Zuraarah from Abee Ja'far عليه السلام who said: Allah has not made haraam in the Qur'an from the land animals anything except the pig, and other than that is al-nakirah. (Different ways to interpret this word, it could be saying that animals other than the pig are "lowly," which has been narrated in meaning elsewhere, or it could be saying that haraam animals other than the pig are "unknown,"--meaning, the pig is the only animal which is truly haraam in and of itself. The ruling from this hadith is the same anyway...the haraam animals in the Qur'an enjoy a level of prohibition exclusive of other animals).

Translations from http://www.*******.org/hadiths/food-and-drink-1/fish :

وعنه ، عن محمد بن أبي عمير ، عن عمر بن اذينة ، عن زرارة ، قال : سألت ( أبا عبد الله ) ( عليه السلام ) عن الجريث ؟ فقال : وما الجريث ؟ فنعته له ، فقال : ( قل لا أجد فيما أوحي إليّ محرما على طاعم يطعمه ) إلى آخر الاية ، ثم قال : لم يحرم الله شيئا من الحيوان في القرآن ، الا الخنزير بعينه ، ويكره كل شيء من البحر ليس له قشر مثل الورق ، وليس بحرام ، إنما هو مكروه

Sahih from Zurara. He said: I asked Abu `Abdillahs عليه السلام about the eel (al-jarith). So he said: And what is al-jarith? So I described it for him. So he said: “Say: 'I do not find, in what is revealed to me, aught forbidden to him who eats thereof” until the end of the ayat. Then he said: Allah has not forbidden anything from the animals in the Quran except for the pig in itself. And everything of the sea that does not have scales leaves is disliked, and it is not haram, it is only makruh.

‎وعنه ، عن عبد الرحمن بن أبي نجران ، عن عاصم بن حميد ، عن محمد بن مسلم ، قال : سألت أبا عبد الله ( عليه السلام ) عن الجرّي والمارماهي والزمير ، ( وما ليس له قشر ) من السمك أحرام هو ؟ فقال لي : يا محمد ! اقرأ هذه الاية التي في الانعام : ( قل لا أجد فيما اوحي اليّ محرما ) قال : فقرأتها حتى فرغت منها ، فقال : انما الحرام ما حرم الله ورسوله في كتابه ، ولكنهم قد كانوا يعافون أشياء ، فنحن نعافها

 

Sahih from Muhammad b. Muslim. He said: I asked Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام about the al-jarii, the moray eel (al-maramahi), and az-zamir (a type of fish, I am unsure of its translation), and that of the fish [that does not have scales], is it haram? So he said to me: Oh Muhammad! Recite this ayat that is in al-An`am: “Say: 'I do not find, in what is revealed to me, aught forbidden.” He said: So I recited it until I was done with it. So he said: The haram is only that which Allah and His Messenger have forbidden in His Book. However, they (pl.) were averse to (some) things, so we are averse to them.

[kadhim]

Thing is, the ahadith that say any seafood can be eaten, if I recall correctly, also quote the same ayat. So it's not coming out of nowhere.

[Rohani]

What was the murjia view (Sunni) at the time of the hadith?

[Nima]

I just want to add that I do not encourage people to eat fish (that does not  have scales) 

But I must admit that I like his method. 

He adds: “On our part, we adopt the narrations that conform to the Holy Book and reflect permissibility, for adopting what conforms to the Book comes in first before referring the permissibility ruling to Taqiyya. If the traditions continue to be contradictory and there was no way to reach a consensus in any way, one should refer to the general rulings in the Book, which, in this case, talk about the permissibility.”

[Guest Kamel]

I am upset that some in this chat decided to mention part of Sayyid Fadlallah's fatwa.  He never said Lobster is halal.    His quote from his  Bayynat  site:

He continues to say: “As for the fish or any other marine organisms that cause significant harm to man, they are forbidden due to the harm they cause. Moreover, it must be noted that some sea animals, such as lobsters, are placed alive in boiled water to kill them, which renders the permissibility of eating them problematic; therefore, a new way for killing such animals should be devised to ensure that they die after fishing them without placing them into water once again.”

So it is impossible to eat lobster as there is no new way for killing such animals.  Either they are boiled alive (haram to eat), or you keep them out of water until they die (suffocation, also haram to eat).  Fadlallah left the door open on this one, incase there is a way but as of now there is no new way for killing such animals. 

Let's move on to crab.  Again his eminence Sayyed Fadlallah quotes:

"He also points: “As for the amphibian animals, such as crabs, frogs, alligators and the like: if they live on the land more than they do in water, as in the case of the frogs and alligators, then eating them is forbidden, whereas those that live more in the water in the sense that they are marine animals that are not harmed by staying for a short while on the land, then eating them is allowed.”

In this case:  crabs live on land from two days upto a week before they need to wet their gills again. Crabs can also suffocate if they are submerged under water for more than a certain time.

[realizm]

On 5/11/2020 at 4:02 AM, Guest Kamel said:

 or you keep them out of water until they die (suffocation, also haram to eat). 

Brother, any fish you eat died from suffocation after being taken out from the water.

That is not haram in the case of fish, it is actually the condition for it to be halal to consumption. 

I agree that the late Sayed's fatwa does not make crabs and lobsters more halal to eat in theory since he introduce the idea that boiling is not a proper method of slaughter. I said in theory since after all, no Quranic verse prohibits such a method, it seems the fatwa implies some level of precaution. 

I on a personal level and as a muqallid of the late Sayed (r), this fatwa only solved the permissibility of fish without scales, which I now allow myself to eat under certain circumstances. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by realizm