Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
peace seeker

Answering Clynn

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Greetings peace seeker,

I have decided not to post my very long reply, (so only a semi-long one). I think I mentioned I always have a lot to say? :angel:

So anyway... earlier I said;

" The problem is when people refuse to see both sides of an issue. People must be able to see both sides in order to reach a peaceable solution."

I fear that you are not able to see both sides.

You said;

"one of them is right and wrong."

I say, if only things were that clear and simple in this world, but they are not. There are always two sides to a story. The truth is always somewhere in the middle. No people are all correct, or all incorrect. Peace will only happen when people can accept this fact and learn compromise. Digging in heels only prolongs conflict. Wise people learn this.

Tell me, what good would it have done for me to fight with the devil? The only thing I control is what I do with myself, and who I serve. I do not serve God in fighting with my fellow man. I am able to keep the devil away from me by not letting him pull me down to his ways. I am able to fight the devil best by turning myself to God. I did the better thing and sought God, and God helped me, and it is He who helps me to have a blessed life and to leave the past in the past. This way I win. With God I win. With God we win. Only God can fight the devil. It is in seeking God that we defeat the devil.

Look at what happened to Job and he wisely said...

"Should we accept only good things from the hand of God and never anything bad? ... Should we receive what is good from God, and not also receive what is evil? ... We accept the good that God gives us. Shouldn't we also accept the bad?"

God allowed satan to bedevil Job, as a test. Job did not fight it. He did not fight God and His will.

It is more important we seek peace... with ourselves, and with the world. When we fight one another we give the devil exactly what he hopes to accomplish.

Have you read the book of Job? The devil seeks to bring dissention between people as he quite nearly brought between Job and his friends. He seeks to separate us from God by making us bitter and angry people. The devil brought dissention between Job and his wife. Jobs wife wanted him to curse God. If the devil can make us angry he succeeds in separating us from the good of our Creator. We must always be careful to discern whom we serve.

walaikum Salaam,

CLynn

Edited by CLynn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings CLynn,

Anger is one thing and fighting is something else. It is possible to defend and fight without feeling any anger.

Numbers 31:3 So Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian to execute the Lord's vengeance on Midian.

so now we can not claim that Moses was doing a mistake here was he?

how about Prophet David? Was it also wrong of him to fight?

Psalms 144:1 Of David. Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle;

Anyway, you are on a muslim site which follows the same way very clearly and we are told to fight the devil and his minions, which does make sense. If some guy who is possessed by the devil attacks your family, and you don't resist and defend, i will personally loose all my respect of you. So it's no different in dealing with the zionist orcs.

again, remember that anger is not the same as fighting. Imam Ali was the best who mastered to differentiate, in order to be purely the sword of Allah, and not sword of his own emotions.

Peace will only happen when people can accept this fact and learn compromise.

i disagree, because peace will only come once God decides for it to happen, and then it may be too late for some followers of satan and their advocates.

you can go on accepting the devil and embracing evil. Your interpretation of Job is wrong. accepting bad is simply accepting bad things we can not change. But if we can defend and fight against the devil, then obviously we should. Otherwise we are responsible as well. And we seek refuge from the devil accursed.

again: we are on a muslim website, and we fight against satan on all levels, on a physical level , but most importantly inside ourselves. We surrender only to our One God, and we only serve Him, and fight those who are His enemies.

walaikum salaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" It is in seeking God that we defeat the devil."

"When we fight one another we give the devil exactly what he hopes to accomplish."

"We must always be careful to discern whom we serve." [by our actions] :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" It is in seeking God that we defeat the devil."

"When we fight one another we give the devil exactly what he hopes to accomplish."

"We must always be careful to discern whom we serve." [by our actions] :)

that is true. "one another" is servants of God. And seeking God is to be a tool of God. Just like the prophets of old, who wielded blades for our One God. We must serve the poor, oppressed, unjustly occupied people, who are most in need. And serve justice wherever it may be. God willing

Greetings peace seeker,

I have to ask...

How much have you read up and studied the history of islam?

How much have you studied the history of palestine?

walaikum salaam

Greetings CLynn,

one can always read more of course. Anyway, CLynn, kindly never bring me supposed crimes of the past in order to justify crimes of today. (and past 60 years). Plus, the crimes of the zionists goes beyond palestine anyway, as they control nations such as America and their foreign policies, so their influence goes way beyond that. Just like gog and magog, they seem to be on all 4 corners of the earth. May God bring justice to the world, and save those who are oppressed and suffering unjustly.

walaikum salaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings peace seeker,

I'm sorry to say, but your prejudice shows. You do not see it, but I do.

walaikum salaam,

CLynn

note: You didn't answer my question... How well have you studied the history of palestine?

Edited by CLynn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

kindly never bring me supposed crimes of the past in order to justify crimes of today.

walaikum salaam

Greetings peace seeker,

I have been wanting to answer this.

The point being made is, that people throughout the ages, in all lands, have had to adjust to changes in their lands and rulership. Peace reigned, and society was progressive, when they chose to make these adjustments. It is not to justify. It is just to state a fact.

May the peace of God be with you peace seeker,

CLynn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings CLynn,

ah ok thanks, but i disagree because for instance the native "Americans" dont live in peace today. they are at the bottom of the economic and political sphere and suffer major social issues such as alcoholism, and are treated very badly. Only once they have their rights will they have inner peace as well as outer peace. it is not a fact that forcing somebody to live under oppressive racist killer thieves government will ever bring peace. Peace will only come with justice, and thats a fact. ( palestinians will only live in peace when they have their lands and homes back, as well as their dignity. there is no way around it )

May peace and justice and understanding of God be with you CLynn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings peace seeker,

I must say that actually peace does reign in the United States. The native americans accepted their plight once it was come. No this does not make it right, but it makes for peace in the land, and at least the ability to live a semblance of life without constant warring.

Yes, though, I agree... the United States has been shameful in their neglect(basically turning a blind eye to the conditions of the natives) and treatment of the native american populations. It is one of the exceptions that came to my mind as I was writing to you. The native americans did not receive equal treatment under their new rulership and it is shameful. I have always seen great injustice in what was done to the native americans. I wonder, does it surprise others to know that children in the United States are taught about this shameful history, that it is not hidden, or denied? (They also learn about the Salem witch hunts... another disgrace of the country's early history.)

We can not say that if palestinians would lay down the battle that their lives would not improve.

Here is some of that earlier research I wanted to share with you. This is information taken as I read from many sources, and compiled into one document for later reference.

_____________________________

A desolate land

In 1874, Reverend Samuel Manning wrote: "But where were the inhabitants? This fertile plain, which might support an immense population, is almost a solitude.... Day by day we were to learn afresh the lesson now forced upon us, that the denunciations of ancient prophecy have been fulfilled to the very letter -- "the land is left void and desolate and without inhabitants." (Jeremiah, ch.44 v.22)[13]

In 1881, the British cartographer Arthur Penrhyn Stanley wrote: "In Judea it is hardly an exaggeration to say that for miles and miles there was no appearance of life or habitation."

While the Holy Land was ruled by the Muslim Ottomans, despite large waves of Jewish Zionist immigration, there were practically no conflicts between the Jews and the few local Arabs. Jews and local Arabs lived peacefully together. This peaceful co-existence ended after 1918, when the large waves of foreign Muslim-Arab immigration started, following the British conquest. Up until 1948 the British restricted Jewish immigration and encouraged Muslim-Arab immigration. It is the landless foreign Muslim-Arabs who immigrated after 1918 that started the conflict, NOT the zionistic Jewish immigration between 1881-1914, which was a peaceful period. For example, in 1929, the Hebron Massacre of the local Jews was done by foreign Arabs, not by the established local families who lived there and even tried to defend the Jews.

The Quran explicitly encourages lying and deception if it helps Muslims achieve a desired goal. To deny the massive invasion of the Holy Land by foreign Muslims, the falsified Muslim-Arab propaganda claims that it is a myth. If it is indeed a myth, how can anyone explain the following simple observations?

* The grandparents of the author's wife were born in the Holy Land in the 19th century. They saw with their own eyes how empty the land was at the time. They also lived through and experienced first-hand the British conquest and the Arab's massive invasion of the land that started in 1918. This invasion lasted for only 30 years, and ended in 1948 with the evacuation of the British from the land and the declaration of the state of Israel.

* One of the readers of an earlier version of this article sent the author a similar description by his grandfather. His grandfather was one of the founders of Petach Tikvah (in 1878). The grandfather described to his children and grandchildren how empty and desolate the land used to be. Arabs started immigrating to the Holy Land with the hope of finding employment in the new Jewish villages.

As the spokesman for Palestinian Arabs, Haj Amin did not ask that Britain grant them independence. On the contrary, in a letter to Churchill in 1921, he demanded that Palestine be reunited with Syria and Transjordan.

The Arabs found rioting to be an effective political tool because of the lax British response toward violence against Jews. In handling each riot, the British prevented Jews from protecting themselves, but made little or no effort to prevent the Arabs from attacking them. After each outbreak, a British commission of inquiry would try to establish the cause of the violence. The conclusion was always the same: the Arabs were afraid of being displaced by Jews. To stop the rioting, the commissions would recommend that restrictions be placed on Jewish immigration. Thus, the Arabs came to recognize that they could always stop the influx of Jews by staging a riot.

The Arab fear of being “displaced” or “dominated” was used as an excuse for their merciless attacks on peaceful Jewish settlers. Note, too, that these riots were not inspired by nationalistic fervor—nationalists would have rebelled against their British overlords—they were motivated by racial strife and misunderstanding.

In 1929, Arab provocateurs succeeded in convincing the masses that the Jews had designs on the Temple Mount (a tactic still used today). A Jewish religious observance at the Western Wall, which forms a part of the Temple Mount, served as a pretext for rioting by Arabs against Jews that spilled out of Jerusalem into other villages and towns, including Safed and Hebron.

During World War I, the Jewish population in Palestine declined because of the war, famine, disease and expulsion by the Turks. In 1915, approximately 83,000 Jews lived in Palestine among 590,000 Muslim and Christian Arabs. According to the 1922 census, the Jewish population was 84,000, while the Arabs numbered 643,000. [4] Thus, the Arab population grew exponentially while that of the Jews stagnated.

Despite the growth in their own population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced by Jewish immigration.

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as “the most important asset of the native population.” Ben-Gurion said “under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them.” He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. “Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement,” Ben-Gurion added, “should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price.” [19]

It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land.

When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: “They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay.”

In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness for the British government and offered new plots to any Arabs who had been “dispossessed.” British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government’s legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer

The Peel Commission’s report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that “much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased. . . . there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land.” [24] Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was “due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.” The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities

Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin.

The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II, while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. [13] In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947. [14]

This rapid growth of the Arab population was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states—constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel—by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. [15] The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943. [16]

The Arab population increased the most in cities where large Jewish populations had created new economic opportunities. From 1922–1947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.

[from an earlier article I read: In essence the Jews became victims of their own success as Arab immigrants flooded into the area due to the new opportunities created by the Jews.]

______________________________________

Now, you may say that this is propaganda, but then you must consider that whatever knowledge you have may be propaganda, and I do know this, it is not in the Jewish scriptures that deception is advocated and permissable.

from the proverbs of Solomon;

There are six things the Lord hates,

seven that are detestable to him:

17 haughty eyes,

a lying tongue,

hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,

feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies

and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

This of course does not mean that leaders will not lie.

Some of the facts however, are indisputable, like population and mortality numbers.

So the only thing that can be dealt with is where we are today, and where we are today ought to be, having the desire to seek peace from where we are today. The Japanese americans continued in peace after the unjust incarcerations during WWII... the native americans seek peaceful co-existence even after the cruel injustices perpetrated on them in taking their land... just as Christians and Jews pursued peaceful co-existence after their lands where invaded by muslims in the early days of islam.

I do not believe it is the people themselves that prolong this battle, but a handful of ideologists that continue to impose these conditions by fighting on.

Walaikum Salaam,

CLynn

Edited by CLynn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings peace seeker,

I must say that actually peace does reign in the United States. The native americans accepted their plight once it was come. No this does not make it right, but it makes for peace in the land, and at least the ability to live a semblance of life without constant warring.

Yes, though, I agree... the United States has been shameful in their neglect(basically turning a blind eye to the conditions of the natives) and treatment of the native american populations. It is one of the exceptions that came to my mind as I was writing to you. The native americans did not receive equal treatment under their new rulership and it is shameful. I have always seen great injustice in what was done to the native americans. I wonder, does it surprise others to know that children in the United States are taught about this shameful history, that it is not hidden, or denied? (They also learn about the Salem witch hunts... another disgrace of the country's early history.)

We can not say that if palestinians would lay down the battle that their lives would not improve.

Here is some of that earlier research I wanted to share with you. This is information taken as I read from many sources, and compiled into one document for later reference.

_____________________________

A desolate land

In 1874, Reverend Samuel Manning wrote: "But where were the inhabitants? This fertile plain, which might support an immense population, is almost a solitude.... Day by day we were to learn afresh the lesson now forced upon us, that the denunciations of ancient prophecy have been fulfilled to the very letter -- "the land is left void and desolate and without inhabitants." (Jeremiah, ch.44 v.22)[13]

In 1881, the British cartographer Arthur Penrhyn Stanley wrote: "In Judea it is hardly an exaggeration to say that for miles and miles there was no appearance of life or habitation."

While the Holy Land was ruled by the Muslim Ottomans, despite large waves of Jewish Zionist immigration, there were practically no conflicts between the Jews and the few local Arabs. Jews and local Arabs lived peacefully together. This peaceful co-existence ended after 1918, when the large waves of foreign Muslim-Arab immigration started, following the British conquest. Up until 1948 the British restricted Jewish immigration and encouraged Muslim-Arab immigration. It is the landless foreign Muslim-Arabs who immigrated after 1918 that started the conflict, NOT the zionistic Jewish immigration between 1881-1914, which was a peaceful period. For example, in 1929, the Hebron Massacre of the local Jews was done by foreign Arabs, not by the established local families who lived there and even tried to defend the Jews.

The Quran explicitly encourages lying and deception if it helps Muslims achieve a desired goal. To deny the massive invasion of the Holy Land by foreign Muslims, the falsified Muslim-Arab propaganda claims that it is a myth. If it is indeed a myth, how can anyone explain the following simple observations?

* The grandparents of the author's wife were born in the Holy Land in the 19th century. They saw with their own eyes how empty the land was at the time. They also lived through and experienced first-hand the British conquest and the Arab's massive invasion of the land that started in 1918. This invasion lasted for only 30 years, and ended in 1948 with the evacuation of the British from the land and the declaration of the state of Israel.

* One of the readers of an earlier version of this article sent the author a similar description by his grandfather. His grandfather was one of the founders of Petach Tikvah (in 1878). The grandfather described to his children and grandchildren how empty and desolate the land used to be. Arabs started immigrating to the Holy Land with the hope of finding employment in the new Jewish villages.

As the spokesman for Palestinian Arabs, Haj Amin did not ask that Britain grant them independence. On the contrary, in a letter to Churchill in 1921, he demanded that Palestine be reunited with Syria and Transjordan.

The Arabs found rioting to be an effective political tool because of the lax British response toward violence against Jews. In handling each riot, the British prevented Jews from protecting themselves, but made little or no effort to prevent the Arabs from attacking them. After each outbreak, a British commission of inquiry would try to establish the cause of the violence. The conclusion was always the same: the Arabs were afraid of being displaced by Jews. To stop the rioting, the commissions would recommend that restrictions be placed on Jewish immigration. Thus, the Arabs came to recognize that they could always stop the influx of Jews by staging a riot.

The Arab fear of being “displaced” or “dominated” was used as an excuse for their merciless attacks on peaceful Jewish settlers. Note, too, that these riots were not inspired by nationalistic fervor—nationalists would have rebelled against their British overlords—they were motivated by racial strife and misunderstanding.

In 1929, Arab provocateurs succeeded in convincing the masses that the Jews had designs on the Temple Mount (a tactic still used today). A Jewish religious observance at the Western Wall, which forms a part of the Temple Mount, served as a pretext for rioting by Arabs against Jews that spilled out of Jerusalem into other villages and towns, including Safed and Hebron.

During World War I, the Jewish population in Palestine declined because of the war, famine, disease and expulsion by the Turks. In 1915, approximately 83,000 Jews lived in Palestine among 590,000 Muslim and Christian Arabs. According to the 1922 census, the Jewish population was 84,000, while the Arabs numbered 643,000. [4] Thus, the Arab population grew exponentially while that of the Jews stagnated.

Despite the growth in their own population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced by Jewish immigration.

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as “the most important asset of the native population.” Ben-Gurion said “under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them.” He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. “Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement,” Ben-Gurion added, “should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price.” [19]

It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land.

When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: “They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay.”

In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness for the British government and offered new plots to any Arabs who had been “dispossessed.” British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government’s legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer

The Peel Commission’s report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that “much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased. . . . there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land.” [24] Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was “due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.” The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities

Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin.

The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II, while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. [13] In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947. [14]

This rapid growth of the Arab population was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states—constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel—by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. [15] The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943. [16]

The Arab population increased the most in cities where large Jewish populations had created new economic opportunities. From 1922–1947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.

[from an earlier article I read: In essence the Jews became victims of their own success as Arab immigrants flooded into the area due to the new opportunities created by the Jews.]

______________________________________

Now, you may say that this is propaganda, but then you must consider that whatever knowledge you have may be propaganda, and I do know this, it is not in the Jewish scriptures that deception is advocated and permissable.

from the proverbs of Solomon;

There are six things the Lord hates,

seven that are detestable to him:

17 haughty eyes,

a lying tongue,

hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,

feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies

and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

This of course does not mean that leaders will not lie.

Some of the facts however, are indisputable, like population and mortality numbers.

So the only thing that can be dealt with is where we are today, and where we are today ought to be, having the desire to seek peace from where we are today. The Japanese americans continued in peace after the unjust incarcerations during WWII... the native americans seek peaceful co-existence even after the cruel injustices perpetrated on them in taking their land... just as Christians and Jews pursued peaceful co-existence after their lands where invaded by muslims in the early days of islam.

I do not believe it is the people themselves that prolong this battle, but a handful of ideologists that continue to impose these conditions by fighting on.

Walaikum Salaam,

CLynn

I did not bother to read your propaganda in detail, especially after your statement of:

I must say that actually peace does reign in the United States. The native americans accepted their plight once it was come.

nobody will accept the plight of devilish people imposed on them! that is nonsense. does this angry man accept his plight of being subjected to the satan the accursed?

furthermore, your next statement that i briefly saw was:

The Quran explicitly encourages lying and deception if it helps Muslims achieve a desired goal.

.. why don't you give a reference of the explicit verse in the quran talking about this?

i will ignore the rest of your text which is obviously sourced by zionists (while i still have heaps of palestinian friends who are still not allowed to visit their own homelands after being kicked out and killed ).

greetings and walaikum salaam,

Edited by peace seeker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings peace seeker,

Does it surprise you to know that I agree with what this native american says?(don't much appreciate the abusive language, but I get his message) But the native americans have not been creating war in the country for generations have they? They chose, or accepted, to live peacefully and protest peacefully, waiting for proper channels to do their work. After many generations people are finally paying attention.

I wonder, did you also listen to what this other native american has to say?

Anybody who studies the situation in palestine knows that immigration has been the root of the problem from the beginning.

I do know about the horrible situation in palestine where families are cut off from each other... much like what existed when Berlin was divided into east and west.

Regarding the comment about lying and deception, that actually wasn't my words, but taken from other sources.

Currently my research on taqiya is on a flashdrive that is with a neighbor who is working on my computer. I will have to get it back to provide you with the answers that you asked for.

As far as not being willing to read and contemplate the research that I shared I have to say this;

A closed mind is a shameful thing, and no way to find Truth.

I am open minded enough to hear anything you have to say which refutes what I have shared.

Peace and blessings to you in the light of God,

CLynn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings CLynn,

it is clear now and has been clear from before, that our minds are different. you have your beliefs and i have mine.

and i can tell you from now that you will not find any quranic verse explicitly saying that.

i dont like to waste time, and already from your first sentence, plus the claim of the quranic verse, i can dismiss everything else you say.

currently the world is not at peace, and america least of all, because of their negative actions around the world, and the negative actions committed in america. The native americans have been annihilated and that is the only reason they stopped fighting. If they had the chance, they would obviously fight those arrogant white people who stole their land.

America should have a native american president and government that is independent from AIPAC and the criminal behind the scene gangsters who have been controlling the current murderous government. Only then will there be peace and justice in America.

Just like palestine. it will only be at peace once there is a palestinian competent governor, who allows all palestinians to come home.

The same counts for the Australian continent, and Africa of course. And every country should be controlled by local leaders independently. Ethnic local leadership which is not linked to a fanatic war machine with bloody hands such as the US government from day one.

peace and harmony to you in the Truth of God

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As per my initial response, the most wasteless thread in the history of shiachat.

Website moderators, can someone please hand them the coveted trophy??

Greetings mohammad_mahdi,

and still you have not said why you say so....

I truly would like to hear your answer.

Salaam,

CLynn

Edited by CLynn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings peace seeker,

Can you name one country or government that does not have blood on its hands?

I think that is where this whole discussion began, didn't it?

Salaam to you and may peace come to us all,

CLynn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings CLynn

it is all relative, and we can start by categorizing which governments are responsible for killing indigenous people, after colonizing, and occupying other people, and stealing their resources, as well as forcing the indigenous people from leaving their homes.

if this above is our criteria, we will find many governments that are clean. nobody is perfect, but there still seems to be infinite difference between good and bad people. much like the difference of heaven and hell, and the love of God and wrath of God. Even though the people who deserve Love of God are also not perfect.

Salaam and peace and forgiveness of God and his guidance to the whole world all the worlds and all of us God willing

peace seeker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings peace seeker,

I have found myself pondering your words, trying to understand the way you think, and it brought me to this thought... So if Islam comes to my country, by your reasoning... i.e., if I were to use your reasoning... then rather than adjusting, your prescription would be endless fighting against it, as it is not what I would want and I would consider it unfair and unjust... by your reasoning, I should not seek a way to make peace with it, but rather keep fighting endlessly, regardless of the cost to generation after generation of children having to grow up in a constant state of war. It is not the way that I reason, nor do I think it is the way any ordinary citizen having to live in a war zone reasons... they just want a place to peacefully live their lives, to raise their families... it is why people for generations have sought peaceful ways to live side by side with one another. (Many people have had to accept things they did not want to accept... like the people in Berlin being separated from their friends and families for generations... until such a time as God makes a change in peoples hearts... as is happening now as people take up the cause of the native americans... as it happened when people took up the cause for justice for the african american under the leadership of Martin Luther King Jr.) War is an exhausting way to live. It demoralizes people, it changes their nature and their character... it destroys all the good that the Creator intended for us. Peace allows God to work in peoples hearts, it gives them energy to work towards bringing about positive change. A distinct Truth for me... Only God's enemy wishes war and killing.

Salaam, may peace come to us all,

CLynn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings CLynn

the world is traumatized by the spread of false islam, where rulers such as ottoman sultans would burn villages and conquer places by force, and call that Islam.

by saying if Islam would enter my community, we can take 2 of the possible meanings of the word Islam .. peace and surrender.

Islam has already entered every corner of the earth through various prophets and it lays there in a dormant subdued manner. And if the islam that appears is not just and fair and right, then its not islam. i am not saying that God does not punish evildoers through geological or astrological traumas, as well as the hands of people like warriors of prophet David, but surely after the batter of Prophet David, the locals of palestine were happier, richer, more respected, more at peace than with their previous goliath government. God kills people, and sometimes it is through people such as King David, and it is to get rid of people who are already dead, because their souls are dead. Nobody knows exactly how the destiny will be, and if and how many people will have to be killed in order to have serious peace, but God has already written that in His Books of Destiny, so let's wait and see.

walaikum Salaam

and may peace prevail, and love and justice and happiness and prosperity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...