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In the Name of God بسم الله

Reasons I Can't Believe In The 12Th Imam

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So, lets say I am a christian. So, in my mind, Jesus existed and brought the true message of God. However, corruption remained. Why is it that, in his return, peace will be brought, rather than his initial appearance?

The same goes for the Mahdi, why are we waiting for the Mahdis return for justice, and why hadnt we recieved it during his original appearance, or even during the time of the prophet pbuh.

I don't have a problem with the general idea of Mahdism/ or a savior in the final day and this is purely based on my own reading of a few verses of the Quran (for eg. 21:105) and Prophetic traditions about the Mahdi. The mission is not for his initial appearence but at a later date.

However, I'm not really been able to understand the mission of Isa al-Masih (as). Yes, he's still alive and didn't die on cross, but what purpose will Isa serves in the final days since all the religions except Islam are null and void. And the real representative of Islam in the final days will be the Mahdi.

Edited by Gypsy
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I don't have a problem with the general idea of Mahdism/ or a savior in the final day and this is purely based on my own reading of a few verses of the Quran (for eg. 21:105) and Prophetic traditions about the Mahdi. The mission is not for his initial appearence but at a later date.

However, I'm not really been able to understand the mission of Isa al-Masih (as). Yes, he's still alive and didn't die on cross, but what purpose will Isa serves in the final days since all the religions except Islam are null and void. And the real representative of Islam in the final days will be the Mahdi.

More than 50 percent is christian. Prophet Isa will be "their" miracle, so they will finally know the truth. They also believe that Jesus will come back from the dead, hence this will be proof upon them to come to the true religion. This is one of the main reasons why i dont believe in the notion some people bring pertaining to "bloodshed" and pure vengeance. No, Allah is merciful, he is the best of All planners, hence he will bring Jesus A.S so that it will be clear to them and the will come on their own will. Dont forget other prophets who will be alive till the day of judgement ie khidr

Edited by PureEthics
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More than 50 percent is christian. Prophet Isa will be "their" miracle, so they will finally know the truth. They also believe that Jesus will come back from the dead, hence this will be proof upon them to come to the true religion. This is one of the main reasons why i dont believe in the notion some people bring pertaining to "bloodshed" and pure vengeance. No, Allah is merciful, he is the best of All planners, hence he will bring Jesus A.S so that it will be clear to them and the will come on their own will. Dont forget other prophets who will be alive till the day of judgement ie khidr

He already worked so many extraordinary miracles for the people of his time, yet they still chose to disbelieve. Do you think that suddenly it will dawn upon all people that they should believe? People still have the ability to reject by their own will and the prophets never attempted to force people to commit to their worldview. Perhaps, Allah [swt] has something greater in plan than what we have thought to be the case. Would it be so absurd if the nation of `Isa [as] be judged by the Sharia of the Injeel as the nation of Muhammad [sawa] be judged by the Sharia of the Qur'an. The fiqh is not the biggest issue, it's the aqeedah. And Allah [swt] shall judge between them in that which they differed.

(wasalam)

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He already worked so many extraordinary miracles for the people of his time, yet they still chose to disbelieve. Do you think that suddenly it will dawn upon all people that they should believe? People still have the ability to reject by their own will and the prophets never attempted to force people to commit to their worldview. Perhaps, Allah [swt] has something greater in plan than what we have thought to be the case. Would it be so absurd if the nation of `Isa [as] be judged by the Sharia of the Injeel as the nation of Muhammad [sawa] be judged by the Sharia of the Qur'an. The fiqh is not the biggest issue, it's the aqeedah. And Allah [swt] shall judge between them in that which they differed.

(wasalam)

People didnt disbelieve Jesus A.S. They are still monotheistic. They thought he was God because of his miracles and such. Then when he died other people came and infiltrated it more to a point where "Christianity" became Christianity. Therefore, when he does come back, they will truly see what was true and what was false. Im not God, but this is what I think will be part of his plan, Allah knows best.

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For your second comment, I see now that you dont have knowledge, your attacking something you dont even know fully about. You deflected my questions, and asked me questions to which I already know why.

You're asking me basically, "How can we have justice without the Mehdi?"

I'm asking what justice are you talking about here? If you had a clue, you'd have responded to the myriad problems presented in this thread.

You have extremely poor reasoning ability.

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People still have the ability to reject by their own will and the prophets never attempted to force people to commit to their worldview. Perhaps, Allah [swt] has something greater in plan than what we have thought to be the case.

Have you actually read the corpus of prophesied narrations? This is your own wishful thinking. The Mehdi will kill people of different faiths if they don't submit.

Just entertaining the thought that he does incorporate them into His Islamic society, how will that work out? If they aren't satisfied with divine law, they'd probably start a revolution, calling for democracy.

Would it be so absurd if the nation of `Isa [as] be judged by the Sharia of the Injeel as the nation of Muhammad [sawa] be judged by the Sharia of the Qur'an. The fiqh is not the biggest issue, it's the aqeedah. And Allah [swt] shall judge between them in that which they differed.

Yes, it would be absurd. I'm literally repeating myself. I've brought this objection previously in this thread. The Injeel has been abrogated by the final guide, the Qur'an. The future Christians, if they exist, wouldn't use a context specific book to apply to their own contemporary lives. It doesn't make any sense.

Again, I ask, what would the enlightening Injeel contain that is missing from their life?

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You're asking me basically, "How can we have justice without the Mehdi?"

I'm asking what justice are you talking about here? If you had a clue, you'd have responded to the myriad problems presented in this thread.

You have extremely poor reasoning ability.

What Justice?! Are you serious? I think your living a dream then, because there has never been any justice. No matter where you live, people get treated poorly, third world countries are suffering because of first world countries, kings are living as kings, and even in first world countries there is no such thing as equality. Immoral acts are rampant. There should not be any injustice, as long as there is injustice, then the world is far from okay. I can talk about this for days, but if you clearly have no idea what is going on in the world then you are truly blind.

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What Justice?! Are you serious? I think your living a dream then, because there has never been any justice. No matter where you live, people get treated poorly, third world countries are suffering because of first world countries, kings are living as kings, and even in first world countries there is no such thing as equality. Immoral acts are rampant. There should not be any injustice, as long as there is injustice, then the world is far from okay. I can talk about this for days, but if you clearly have no idea what is going on in the world then you are truly blind.

Are you mentally challenged? I asked what justice will the Mehdi bring and how exactly will it be expressed? You're arguing something I wasn't speaking about.

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Are you mentally challenged? I asked what justice will the Mehdi bring and how exactly will it be expressed? You're arguing something I wasn't speaking about.

Justice:

- the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness: to uphold the justice of a cause.

-rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice

Now that you know what justice means, try to understand my sentence. Imam Mahdi will bring JUSTICE to the whole world. Justice in social, economical, and political ideals. He he will express it is simple, how do people express political systems today? I dont see how something so magnificent with the help of Allah, isnt possible. How isnt really important, because im pretty sure by then, it will be well known. Just as how we were created once, God can bring peace on earth as simple. After all, it will be Allah powering everything. See you cannot understand these things unless you understand Allah. Your an atheist, your thinking is purely empirical. Your thinking too materialistic. You think Imam Mahdi will hold an election or some sort of neopolitcal reform. No, just by his and Isa A.S presence there will be surrounding peace and unity. There will be a system, as all prophets and imams had systems. Allah is the best of all planners. We dont have much on the how, as far as I know, but that doesnt make it impossible wrong or untrue.

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Yes, it would be absurd. I'm literally repeating myself. I've brought this objection previously in this thread. The Injeel has been abrogated by the final guide, the Qur'an. The future Christians, if they exist, wouldn't use a context specific book to apply to their own contemporary lives. It doesn't make any sense.

Again, I ask, what would the enlightening Injeel contain that is missing from their life?

I can agree with you here. Just don't see the whole point of Christianity at this point. I mean, the bible is wholly and throughly corrupted. The Christians are not even following any of their teaching from the corrupted bible much less the original Injeel. And Islamic teaching via Ahl al Bayt is already perfect enough for everyone no matter what his/her religion.

Edited by Gypsy
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