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Ethics

Many Misconceptions Answered (Slavery/evolution)

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I really enjoyed his response. Very pleasant, animated guy. I may differ with him in some areas, but I greatly respect his spirit and sincerity for the truth.

there are more of his videos in my signature :P

Im glad you like it :D

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Overall a pretty good Q & A, as usual with him, since he's a very good speaker masha'Allah. However, I don't think he actually proved how Islam's concept of slavery would inevitably lead to it's eradication. He said that Islam eradicated slavery, but that just isn't the case. The West abolished it, and Muslims were forced to follow. He talked a lot about how Islam's form of slavery was much more humane than other systems, and nobody can deny that, but never really proved that it would lead to slavery disappearing.

His response on the mutah question was also a little weird. I'm not sure why he started talking about polygamy (on which he also made some strange statements). From what he said, you would never get the impression mutah was considered mustahab. As for polygamy, he seemed to be saying it was almost disliked to do it except for extreme circumstances, which I doubt he could really prove.

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It boggles my mind when a speaker claims Islam eradicated slavery when the concept is still permissible in Islam even today.

You can still sell/buy humans, it's permissible. Why doesn't Rajabali talk about that? ^_^

The counter argument will to this will be examples, scenarios, or justifications on why it makes sense. :wacko:

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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It boggles my mind when a speaker claims Islam eradicated slavery when the concept is still permissible in Islam even today.

You can still sell/buy humans, it's permissible. And you will get examples, scenarios, or justifications on why it makes sense. :wacko:

actually your wrong, you cant....this concept is known as prisoners of war.

Can you bring a fatwa?

Edited by PureEthics

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actually your wrong, you cant....this concept is known as prisoners of war.

Can you bring a fatwa?

Dude, Ahlul Bayt owned slaves (sold and purchased).

Get with the program for once.

Q [1] I understand that it is a practice that was not forbidden by the Prophet (saws) but regulated towards its gradual disappearance. I also understand that during the times of war the rules regarding slavery would apply. But my question is: what is the ruling on slavery in our times in which the related conditions present in the Prophet's (saws) times no longer exist? Is it halal or haram to have slaves this day and age?

Answer: The religious laws that concern slavery that Allah almighty has legislated did not change and was not altered but its subjects are no longer exist in our time which made such laws not practical.

http://english.alhak...es.php?Where=89

The concept exists in Islam, but thankfully society evolved (for the most part), and rejected it hence illegal to own one.

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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Dude, Ahlul Bayt owned slaves (sold and purchased).

Get with the program for once.

Q [1] I understand that it is a practice that was not forbidden by the Prophet (saws) but regulated towards its gradual disappearance. I also understand that during the times of war the rules regarding slavery would apply. But my question is: what is the ruling on slavery in our times in which the related conditions present in the Prophet's (saws) times no longer exist? Is it halal or haram to have slaves this day and age?

Answer: The religious laws that concern slavery that Allah almighty has legislated did not change and was not altered but its subjects are no longer exist in our time which made such laws not practical.

http://english.alhak...es.php?Where=89

The concept exists in Islam, but thankfully society evolved (for the most part), and rejected it hence illegal to own one.

even if the country they reside in,is member of united nations?

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Were the slaves of the Imams prisoners of war?

Dude, Ahlul Bayt owned slaves (sold and purchased).

Get with the program for once.

Q [1] I understand that it is a practice that was not forbidden by the Prophet (saws) but regulated towards its gradual disappearance. I also understand that during the times of war the rules regarding slavery would apply. But my question is: what is the ruling on slavery in our times in which the related conditions present in the Prophet's (saws) times no longer exist? Is it halal or haram to have slaves this day and age?

Answer: The religious laws that concern slavery that Allah almighty has legislated did not change and was not altered but its subjects are no longer exist in our time which made such laws not practical.

http://english.alhak...es.php?Where=89

The concept exists in Islam, but thankfully society evolved (for the most part), and rejected it hence illegal to own one.

See, the imams were on a different level. They werent slaves for them. They were servants like we have today, but even that is better than the servant system we have today. I dont know if you read the rights of a slave, but reading that you wont even believe how is that considered a slave. But I do believe all the "slaves" were prisoners of war during their time as everyone attacked islam. I did not find any evidence they they were normal slaves for the imams. I believe they were prisoners of war were the imam bought them to take care of them. Do you have evidence they were actual slaves and treated like slaves ( a master owner relationship?) A slave in islam isnt a slave slave, thats what people dont get.

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See, the imams were on a different level. They werent slaves for them. They were servants like we have today, but even that is better than the servant system we have today. I dont know if you read the rights of a slave, but reading that you wont even believe how is that considered a slave. But I do believe all the "slaves" were prisoners of war during their time as everyone attacked islam. I did not find any evidence they they were normal slaves for the imams. I believe they were prisoners of war were the imam bought them to take care of them. Do you have evidence they were actual slaves and treated like slaves ( a master owner relationship?) A slave in islam isnt a slave slave, thats what people dont get.

You aren't allowed to have sex with your servants. The Imams had sex with their slaves though, and so did their followers. It was considered completely normal for people to have slaves, and I'm not aware of any restrictions on making sure you have the 'right' kind of slave. And no, most slaves were no prisoners of war in those days. Islam was expanding under the rule of unjust Caliphs, and that they took slaves from the lands they conquered. Additionally, slave traders were allowed to operate in the Islamic world. So you would have a slave trader from say North Africa, who would sell his slaves in Madina or Baghdad. Look at the examples of the mothers of the Imams (as) for both cases. Imam Zayn ul-Abideen's mother was a captured Persian woman, and the mother of Imam al-Jawad (as) was a slave from the Maghrib sold to Imam ar-Rida (as) by a slave trader. Other mothers of the Imams were from Africa as well. Were those Africans caught while trying to 'attack Islam'?

Almost everything Rajabali said about Islam's treatment of slaves is correct, but that doesn't mean Islam eradicated it.

Edited by Haydar Husayn

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See, the imams were on a different level. They werent slaves for them. They were servants like we have today, but even that is better than the servant system we have today. I dont know if you read the rights of a slave, but reading that you wont even believe how is that considered a slave. But I do believe all the "slaves" were prisoners of war during their time as everyone attacked islam. I did not find any evidence they they were normal slaves for the imams. I believe they were prisoners of war were the imam bought them to take care of them. Do you have evidence they were actual slaves and treated like slaves ( a master owner relationship?) A slave in islam isnt a slave slave, thats what people dont get.

That's actually a valid point. The Imams didn't treat slaves "like" slaves, although they were made to be domestic servants. The average Muslim owner had unilateral access to his slave, and could seperate a married slave girl without consent and have way with her.

But here's a question, to challenge your claim that they weren't slaves in the actual sense of the term. What would happen to a "servant" if he or she ran away? Would it be a sin on his or her record? If so, this would indicate to me at least that they were ultimately slaves only treated better than before the advent of Islam.

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You aren't allowed to have sex with your servants. The Imams had sex with their slaves though, and so did their followers. It was considered completely normal for people to have slaves, and I'm not aware of any restrictions on making sure you have the 'right' kind of slave. And no, most slaves were no prisoners of war in those days. Islam was expanding under the rule of unjust Caliphs, and that they took slaves from the lands they conquered. Additionally, slave traders were allowed to operate in the Islamic world. So you would have a slave trader from say North Africa, who would sell his slaves in Madina or Baghdad. Look at the examples of the mothers of the Imams (as) for both cases. Imam Zayn ul-Abideen's mother was a captured Persian woman, and the mother of Imam al-Jawad (as) was a slave from the Maghrib sold to Imam ar-Rida (as) by a slave trader. Other mothers of the Imams were from Africa as well. Were those Africans caught while trying to 'attack Islam'?

Almost everything Rajabali said about Islam's treatment of slaves is correct, but that doesn't mean Islam eradicated it.

wait let me get this straight. So your implying imams comitted sins and made mistakes? Please provide some evidence for your claim. What your implying isnt caused by islam then. Allah never told anyone to sell and capture slaves. All this that your saying was an indirect affect of unjust rulers who should never had control. This should be another prove that because of these caliphs they caused repercussions to what now your implying "islam" caused this slave issue. You cannot justify the actions of people into divine rule. The "slave trader" wasnt a worker for the imams nor the prophet so the fact that the imams bought them was mercy not wrong. As they prob. were going to be bought from people who would try them to what you all refer to the western slavery. Now tell me, did the imams treat them as slaves? OF COURSE NOT. This is why im, saying what you and jinn are implying isnt slavery, as that is the true representation of that idea but totally erdicated into a much humane and proper form . Also I believe rajabali explained the mental and social issues well. You cannot just remove the wrong type of "slavery" over night. Those people will be affected mentally, politically, economically, and socially. Where would they go? Hassanain is right, look at the black folks now. How they have become is the result of thei slavery and just "eradicating it while still the affects would be present ("i.e KKK, sitting in the back..) What im trying to say there are two parts, the western ideal slavery which was the wrong type that had been going on and the "not slave" type which the imams had. Those Africans werent the fault of islam, it was the fault of people who did not obey islam and took them illegally and haram-fully.

That's actually a valid point. The Imams didn't treat slaves "like" slaves, although they were made to be domestic servants. The average Muslim owner had unilateral access to his slave, and could seperate a married slave girl without consent and have way with her.

But here's a question, to challenge your claim that they weren't slaves in the actual sense of the term. What would happen to a "servant" if he or she ran away? Would it be a sin on his or her record? If so, this would indicate to me at least that they were ultimately slaves only treated better than before the advent of Islam.

your question depends on the person who has the servant. For our imams point of view, they were literally free. The notion of Islamic representation does mean that they were free, but confined "per-say". Think about it, I dont think there was a time recorded where our imams has a situation where they ran away. They loved the imams and were them for their whole life.

Edited by PureEthics

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even if the country they reside in,is member of united nations?

How is that relevant?

See, the imams were on a different level. They werent slaves for them. They were servants like we have today, but even that is better than the servant system we have today. I dont know if you read the rights of a slave, but reading that you wont even believe how is that considered a slave. But I do believe all the "slaves" were prisoners of war during their time as everyone attacked islam. I did not find any evidence they they were normal slaves for the imams. I believe they were prisoners of war were the imam bought them to take care of them. Do you have evidence they were actual slaves and treated like slaves ( a master owner relationship?) A slave in islam isnt a slave slave, thats what people dont get.

"Rights of slave" = Oxymoron

Your post is so flawed that I'm glad Haydar took the time to reply.

The concept exists in Islam, period.

wait let me get this straight. So your implying imams comitted sins and made mistakes?

No because it was permissible. How can you not comprehend simple facts. :wacko:

Please provide some evidence for your claim. What your implying isnt caused by islam then. Allah never told anyone to sell and capture slaves.

You asked for a fatwa and it was provided, why are you ignoring it? There are actually hadiths on how to buy/sell slaves.

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wait let me get this straight. So your implying imams comitted sins and made mistakes?

No, I'm implying that your understanding of how slavery worked is incorrect, as shown by the example of the Imams.

What your implying isnt caused by islam then. Allah never told anyone to sell and capture slaves. All this that your saying was an indirect affect of unjust rulers who should never had control. This should be another prove that because of these caliphs they caused repercussions to what now your implying "islam" caused this slave issue. You cannot justify the actions of people into divine rule. The "slave trader" wasnt a worker for the imams nor the prophet so the fact that the imams bought them was mercy not wrong.

Is buying a slave halal or not? If it's not, then you are saying the Imams (as) did something haram (however you want to justify it), whereas we know the Imams had to follow Sharia just like everyone else.

As they prob. were going to be bought from people who would try them to what you all refer to the western slavery. Now tell me, did the imams treat them as slaves? OF COURSE NOT.

The Imams treated them as Islam says to treat slaves.

This is why im, saying what you and jinn are implying isnt slavery, as that is the true representation of that idea but totally erdicated into a much humane and proper form . Also I believe rajabali explained the mental and social issues well. You cannot just remove the wrong type of "slavery" over night. Those people will be affected mentally, politically, economically, and socially. Where would they go? Hassanain is right, look at the black folks now. How they have become is the result of thei slavery and just "eradicating it while still the affects would be present ("i.e KKK, sitting in the back..) What im trying to say there are two parts, the western ideal slavery which was the wrong type that had been going on and the "not slave" type which the imams had. Those Africans werent the fault of islam, it was the fault of people who did not obey islam and took them illegally and haram-fully.

I don't disagree with what Rajabali said, but that is a justification for Islam's reformation of slavery, not an argument for proving that Islam abolished slavery. Now, maybe in a world where the Imams ruled slavery would have eventually been eradicated, due to everyone becoming a Muslim. However, in practice, Shias during the time were buying slaves, with no restriction put on them by the Imams (who were also buying slaves). If someone can show the Imams telling one of their followers not to buy slaves, then I will accept that as a strong argument for Islam meaning to abolish slavery, or at least restricting slaves to those taken as prisoners of war, but until then, that argument is baseless.

Edited by Haydar Husayn

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How is that relevant?

"Rights of slave" = Oxymoron

Your post is so flawed that I'm glad Haydar took the time to reply.

The concept exists in Islam, period.

what ignorance you have....

Tell me does this even relate to slavery?

حق الرعية بملك اليمين

وَأمَّا حَقُّ رَعِيَّتِكَ بمِلْكِ اليَمِينِ فَأَنْ تَعْلَمَ أنَهُ خَلْقُ رَبكَ، وَلَحْمُكَ وَدَمُكَ وَأَنَّكَ تَمْلِكُهُ لا أنْتَ صَنَعْتَهُ دُونَ اللَّهِ وَلا خَلَقْتَ لَهُ سَمْعًا وَلا بَصَرًا وَلا أَجْرَيتَ لَهُ رِزْقًا وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهَ كَفَاكَ ذَلِكَ، ثُمَّ سَخَّرَهُ لَكَ وَائْتَمَنَكَ عَلَيْهِ وَاسْتَوْدَعَكَ إيَّاهُ لِتَحْفَظَهُ فِيهِ وتَسِيرَ فِيهِ بسِيرَتِهِ فَتُطْعِمَهُ مِمَّا تَأْكُلُ وَتُلْبسَهُ مِمَّا تَلْبَسُ وَلا تُكَلِّفَهُ مَا لا يُطِيقُ، فَإنْ كَرِهْتَ[هُ] خَرَجْتَ إلَى اللَّهِ مِنْهُ وَاسْتَبْدَلْتَ بهِ وَلَمْ تُعَذِّبْ خَلْقَ اللَّهِ وَلا قُوَّةَ إلا باللهِ

And the right of your subject through being your slave is that you should know that he is a creature of your Lord and is made of the same flesh and blood as you. And you only own him, but you have not created him apart from God. And you have not created his hearing and sight, nor do you provide his daily sustenance; rather it is God who gives you sufficiency for that. Then He subjugated him to you, entrusted him to you, and provisionally consigned him to you so that you may protect him there,[483] and treat him as well as He has treated you. So feed him with what you eat yourself, and clothe him with what you clothe yourself. And do not burden him with what he cannot withstand. And if you dislike him, you ought to let him go and replace him, but do not torment God’s creature. And there is no power but in God.

إخْوانُكُم جَعَلَهُمُ اللهُ فِتْنَةً تَحتَ أيْديكُم فَمَن كانَ أخُوهُ تَحتَ يَدِهِ فَلْيُطْعِمْهُ مِن طَعامِهِ وَلْيُلْبِسْهُ مِن لِباسِهِ وَلا يُكَلِّفْهُ مَا يَغْلِبُهُ فإنْ كَلَّفَهُ ما يَغْلِبُهُ فَلْيُعِنْهُ.

Noble Prophet Muhammad (MGB) said:

“Your slaves are your brothers. God has set them as a trial under your authority. Therefore whoever has mastery over one of his brothers should feed him from what he eats himself, and should clothe him with what he wears himself, and should not burden him with tasks beyond his strength, and should assist him in doing whatever hard work he asks him to do.”[484]

لا يَقُلْ أَحَدُكُمْ: هَذا عَبْدي وَهَذِهِ أَمَتي. وَلْيَقُلْ: فَتايَ وَفَتاتِي.

“No one is allowed to say this is my slave or that is my maid. You should say this is my young man, and that is my young lady.”[485]

Imam Sadiq (MGB) quoted on the authority of God’s Prophet (MGB): “Do you want me to tell you who the worst people are?” The companions said: “Yes. O Prophet of God!” Then the Prophet (MGB) said:

مَنْ سَافَرَ وَحْدَهُ وَمَنَعَ رِفْدَهُ وَضَرَبَ عَبْدَهُ.

“Those who travel alone, do not admit guests, and beat their slaves.”[486]

The Prophet of Islam (MGB) said:

“Your slaves are your brothers. Treat them with kindness. Seek their help in performing your hard tasks, and help them in the performance of difficult tasks.” [488]

He also said:

أوْصانِي حَبِيبي جِبْرَئيلُ بِالرِّفْقِ بِالرَّقيقِ حَتىّ ظَنَنْتُ أنَّهُ سَيَضرِبُ لهُ أجَلاً يَخْرُجُ فِيهِ حُرّاً.

“My friend Gabriel advised me about treating my slaves with gentleness so much that I thought he would soon establish a deadline for freeing them.”[489]

Yaser and Nader were both slaves of Imam Ridha (MGB). They said that Imam Ridha (MGB) told them: “Whenever you see me while you are sitting down and eating, do not move until you finish your meal.”[492]

Once Imam Sadiq (MGB) asked one of his slaves to go and do something. He went, and did not return on time. The Imam (MGB) went after him, and found him asleep. He sat there and waited until he woke up. Then Imam Sadiq (MGB) faced him and said: “O man! Why do you sleep both at night and during the daytime? The night is for you to rest, and the day is for you to struggle to fulfill your needs.”[493] The few examples above are only cited to illustrate how the Immaculate Imams (MGB) treated their slaves and how much they honored them and respected them.

“Muhammad ibn al-Husayn quoted on the authority of al-Husayn ibn al-Sa’ed on the authority of Abi Abdullah Ja’far ibn Muhammad (MGB):

يَعتِقُ اللهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ بِكُلِّ عُضْوٍ مِنهُ عُضْواً مِن النّارِ.

“God the Exalted the High will save whoever frees his slave from the Fire. For every organ that he frees, God will save one of his organs from the Fire.”[496]

“Husayn ibn Muhammad quoted on the authority of al-Hasan ibn Ali on the authority of his grandfathers on the authority of Bashir an-Nab’bal that he heard Imam Sadiq (MGB) say:

مَنْ أعْتَقَ نَسَمَةً صالِحَةً لِوجْهِ اللهِ كَفَّرَ اللهُ عَنهُ مَكانَ كُلِّ عُضْوٍ مِنهُ عُضْواً مِن النّارِ.

God will forgive whoever frees a good servant of God for Gods sake. God will save his organs from the Fire (of Hell) - an organ will be saved for each organ freed.”[497]

it has been stated that it is recommended to free slaves on the evening of the day of ‘Arafah. Two traditions from Imam Sadiq (MGB) have been narrated to support this. The first one is:

يُسْتَحَبُّ لِلرَّجُلِ أنْ يَتَقَرَّبَ إلى اللهِ عَشِيَّةَ عَرَفَةَ وَيَوْمَ عَرَفَةَ بِالعِتْقِ والصَّدَقَةِ.

“It is recommended for man to seek proximity to God on the day and evening of ‘Arafah by freeing slaves and giving charity.”[499]

http://www.al-islam....e-rights/26.htm

No, I'm implying that your understanding of how slavery worked is incorrect, as shown by the example of the Imams.

Is buying a slave halal or not? If it's not, then you are saying the Imams (as) did something haram (however you want to justify it), whereas we know the Imams had to follow Sharia just like everyone else.

The fact is they didnt buy them to make them slaves, as I said they both them to free them.

The Imams treated them as Islam says to treat slaves.

Which in islam they arnt even slaves in the way you and jinn perceive it.

I don't disagree with what Rajabali said, but that is a justification for Islam's reformation of slavery, not an argument for proving that Islam abolished slavery. Now, maybe in a world where the Imams ruled slavery would have eventually been eradicated, due to everyone becoming a Muslim. However, in practice, Shias during the time were buying slaves, with no restriction put on them by the Imams (who were also buying slaves). If someone can show the Imams telling one of their followers not to buy slaves, then I will accept that as a strong argument for Islam meaning to abolish slavery, or at least restricting slaves to those taken as prisoners of war, but until then, that argument is baseless.

Edited by PureEthics

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^ Stop splashing stuff and use your head for once.

It is unanimous with Sunnis and Shias that slavery was permissible and slave trading allowed under Islam, irrelevant to wars.

Read what you splashed, it's nothing more than regulation of slavery, not eradication. Don't be so ignorant and stubborn.

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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^ Stop splashing stuff and use your head for once.

It is unanimous with Sunnis and Shias that slavery was permissible and slave trading allowed under Islam, irrelevant to wars.

Read what you splashed, it's nothing more than regulation of slavery, not eradication. Don't be so ignorant and stubborn.

well, what can I do if you just cant understand simple english. Its hard talking to a wall. What you think of slavery isnt what islam thinks of it.

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well, what can I do if you just cant understand simple english. Its hard talking to a wall. What you think of slavery isnt what islam thinks of it.

Ok, so would you accept that the type of slavery practiced in the times of the Prophet (pbuh) and Imams (as) is still halal then? So if the slave trade were to start up again, it would be halal for Muslims to buy slaves?

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Ok, so would you accept that the type of slavery practiced in the times of the Prophet (pbuh) and Imams (as) is still halal then? So if the slave trade were to start up again, it would be halal for Muslims to buy slaves?

Okay once again. It isnt slavery, besides, they never took people who were or werent prisoners of war and sold them. You saying they practiced, for me it implies they freed..It would be okay to purchase them BECAUSE if you ARE A TRUE MUSLIM, you must treat them like imams/prophets did, which really isnt the slavery you think it is. It would be better for muslims who buy slaves and treat them like what is posted above, then to let them be sold to people who take the western type of slavery. I believe the reason why slavery wasnt said to be abolished because Islam never allowed it, and the fact that if we have the chance to buy them we should and free them. If our imams say you cannot buy them then those that do buy them without the true islamic standards will treat them harshly. If we miss one fasting day for example, we must "free a slave: like look at that. Islam already eradicates it in all possibly ways.

Edited by PureEthics

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well, what can I do if you just cant understand simple english. Its hard talking to a wall. What you think of slavery isnt what islam thinks of it.

We are speaking on whether slavery is permissible or not in Islam, not how Islam treats slaves. All you are doing is stating that Islam treats slaves with respect - that's not the topic. The fact is slavery is permissible, buying/selling humans is allowed in Islam. It was a norm over 1000 years ago in Islam while the Prophet was alive and the rules haven't changed - I posted an answer on it from a Shia marja clearly stating so. In conclusion, the concept of slavery is permissible in Islam no matter how much you try to paint a rosy picture.

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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Think about it, I dont think there was a time recorded where our imams has a situation where they ran away. They loved the imams and were them for their whole life.

You didn't answer my question. I wasn't talking about the Imams. I'm speaking of a hypothetical scenario where a slave runs away from the average slave owner. From the perspective of Islam, is this a sin on the record of the slave? Yes or no? Would the slave be punished? Yes or no? Provide some proof, too.

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We are speaking on whether slavery is permissible or not in Islam, not how Islam treats slaves. All you are doing is stating that Islam treats slaves with respect - that's not the topic. The fact is slavery is permissible, buying/selling humans is allowed in Islam. It was a norm over 1000 years ago in Islam while the Prophet was alive and the rules haven't changed - I posted a fatwa on it. In conclusion, the concept of slavery is permissible in Islam no matter how much you try to paint a rosy picture.

First of all, where does it say we can sell slaves? and where does it say the types of slaves we can sell? Second, your fatwa is asking to have a slave not to sell.

Q [1] I understand that it is a practice that was not forbidden by the Prophet (saws) but regulated towards its gradual disappearance. I also understand that during the times of war the rules regarding slavery would apply. But my question is: what is the ruling on slavery in our times in which the related conditions present in the Prophet's (saws) times no longer exist? Is it halal or haram to have slaves this day and age?

Answer: The religious laws that concern slavery that Allah almighty has legislated did not change and was not altered but its subjects are no longer exist in our time which made such laws not practical.

http://english.alhak...es.php?Where=89

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It's like I have to spoon feed a child.

"It is stated in reliable traditions from the Prophet that one should feed his slave what he himself eats and should dress him with what he himself dresses. In his famous sermon in 'Arafat, on 9th Dhul-hijjah 9 AH, during his last pilgrimage, the Prophet said, "...and your slaves, see that you feed them such food as you eat yourselves and dress him with what you yourself dress. And if they commit a mistake which you are not inclined to forgive then sell them, for they are the servants of Allah and are not to be tormented...".

Chapter 3

http://www.al-islam.org/slavery/

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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It's like I have to spoon feed a child.

"It is stated in reliable traditions from the Prophet that one should feed his slave what he himself eats and should dress him with what he himself dresses. In his famous sermon in 'Arafat, on 9th Dhul-hijjah 9 AH, during his last pilgrimage, the Prophet said, "...and your slaves, see that you feed them such food as you eat yourselves and dress him with what you yourself dress. And if they commit a mistake which you are not inclined to forgive then sell them, for they are the servants of Allah and are not to be tormented...".

Chapter 3

http://www.al-islam.org/slavery/

Yea, okay lets say it does refer to sell, where did the slave come from? Is there any notion anywhere where Islam allows you to go to a different country and take people? Meaning the context of this hadith is taking out of place. Besides, it is better to give your "slave" away then hurt it or do something inhumane by becoming mad at him/her, as many people are not the prophet or imams with their level of morality, especially at the time of jahiliya. As I said you cant eradicate slavery as there will always be the possibility of prisoners of war.

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Yea, okay lets say it does refer to sell,

Stop! You're habit of jumping around like a bunny is not going to work.

First you wanted a ruling from a Marja on slavery - it was posted.

Then you changed directions and questioned the practice of selling a human - again this was posted.

Everytime you are proven wrong you jump to something else. Now you want to jump around again with your "where does it come from" gibberish, I don't have time to waste. Coming up with scenarios to justify slavery is not the topic I'm concerned with. You can email marjas and argue with them.

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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