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Hannibal

Qaradawi: No Shia-Shia Sunni Unity

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In this video, Qaradawi says that he basically wasted his life on this Shia-Sunni unity business. He says that in unity only Shias benefit, Sunnis have nothing to benefit. In other words, as he is implying, unity is essentially a pretext for Shi'is to open up their hussaynias and propagate Shi'ism in Sunni countries by converting Sunnis to Shi'ism, or weakening traditional and authentic Sunnism. He says there is prospect for unity because Shia and Sunni don't hold the same views on the Qur'an (i.e. somehow the Sunnis don't believe in tahreef, but the Shias do), on the Sunnah, the Sahabah etc. He also praises Salahuddin (la) (the slaughterer of Shias in Egypt) and says Egypt will always remain Sunni.

Here is the video:

He knows all of these facts of course, because he visited Iran once in his life. It seems that he really has special powers where he is able to detect things on mere contact or instinct (maybe he was bitten by a radioactive spider?). For example, the king of Bahrain is good because he's met him and "knows" him.

Edited by Hannibal

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One doesn't need to goto Iran to know about Shiasm :wacko:

To be honest, the fundamentals are falling apart for Shiasm because of this tahreef issue.

If you consider Shia Islam to be the divine path yet claim tahreef in the Quran, you've questioned the most vital fundamental source of your religion, hence Shiasm automatically loses credibility.

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To be honest, the fundamentals are falling apart for Shiasm because of this tahreef issue.

If you consider Shia Islam to be the divine path yet claim tahreef in the Quran, you've questioned the most vital fundamental source of your religion, hence Shiasm automatically loses credibility.

And Sunnism right? It's not like only Shia texts have some mention of tahreef in them.

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One doesn't need to goto Iran to know about Shiasm :wacko:

To be honest, the fundamentals are falling apart for Shiasm because of this tahreef issue.

Sigh. why bother posting when you dont understand the context. On Memri TV Qadrawi has a video stating he went to Iran and majority of the top Shia scholars there believe in tahreef in quran which is outright bull.

If you consider Shia Islam to be the divine path yet claim tahreef in the Quran, you've questioned the most vital fundamental source of your religion, hence Shiasm automatically loses credibility.

I am guessing you and Qaradawi hang out at the same club house.

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And Sunnism right? It's not like only Shia texts have some mention of tahreef in them.

How about this, if a belief/sect (regardless if it's Sunni, Shia, etc.,) questions it's only fundamental holy book then it losses credibility.

On Memri TV Qadrawi has a video stating he went to Iran and majority of the top Shia scholars there believe in tahreef in quran which is outright bull.

Ayatullah Khoei:

http://www.al-islam.org/tahrif_quran/

Then what is the correct understanding of this issue? And name Marjas who have a different viewpoint. -_-

I am guessing you and Qaradawi hang out at the same club house.

I have no idea who this guy is.

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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You do realize that Ayatollah Khoei studied and took Marjae duties in Iraq right? It has absolutely no bearing on Qadarawi statement on his visit to Iran.

I was giving you an opinion from one of the most prominent Shia Marjas.

So tell me which Marja has a different viewpoint on this issue? Or rather, what is your belief in this issue?

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I was giving you an opinion from one of the most prominent Shia Marjas.

So tell me which Marja has a different viewpoint on this issue? Or rather, what is your belief in this issue?

(salam)

Did you even read it?

"The line of argument pursued by Ayatullah al‑Khui is unique. While he enumerates and discusses all the reports from Shiah as well as Sunni sources, he very ably conclu­des that according to the reliable and authentic traditions, Qur'an has remained pure, pristine and unprofaned. His arguments proving that the belief inTahrif goes against al‑Kitab (i.e. Qur'an), as‑Sunnah, al‑Aql and al‑Ijma', are compelling and persuasive. His analysis of all those reports which indicate desultory, unmethodical and haphazard later day collection of Qur'an leaves no shred of doubt that they are false and fabricated."

"It is clear from what we have mentioned above that the question of interpolation or profanity occurring in the Qur'an is baseless, advocated by those who have poor judgement, or those who refuse to ponder, or those who are infatuated with the task of disproving the Qur'an ‑ and indeed, infatuation makes a person blind and deaf. A person with intellect and sense of justice can have no doubt about groundlessness of this presumption."

Edited by InfiniteAscension

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I was giving you an opinion from one of the most prominent Shia Marjas.

So tell me which Marja has a different viewpoint on this issue? Or rather, what is your belief in this issue?

You gave me a link to a book not an opinion.

I have no idea who this guy is.

Then stop polluting this thread with off tangent remarks. There are quite a few recent thread made on SC about Tahrif and the Shia stance. You are more then welcome to opine on those.

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Did you even bother to read the link you posted from Syed Khoie (ra) ' s tafseer? The whole thing is about his refutation of tahreef.

Qaradhawi is a rat. In fact I don't want to insult animals, by making a comparison.

Qaradhawi is one of the biggest Munafiqs on earth. Listen to what Sunni Shaikh Salah al Deen bn Ibraheem has to say about him and all his absurd statements:

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Tahreef issue is extremely funny, its like chinese whispers, everyone talks wabout it, and everyones seems to believe that its shia belief but o one actually has any proof... oh well

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To some degree qardawhi is right, Shias need unity much more than Sunnis do. Given that Sunnis are a vast majority it only makes sense for them to try and dominate. The problem is that they have been in such a state of decline that they generally find themselves in such a weak state. Because shiaism is strong in certain areas and has been more impactful on the world stage the last few decades it has increased our stature and their need to coexist and work with us especially since the enemies of Islam don't care about Shia and Sunni unless it is to cause fitna. If Sunnis had credible leadership they could easily marginalize us, but because they don't it creates a need for cooperation. Of course the increased interaction has led to more conversions and more influence which has then led to the backlash and the rise of the takfiri elements that are so rabidly anti Shia.

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One doesn't need to goto Iran to know about Shiasm :wacko:

To be honest, the fundamentals are falling apart for Shiasm because of this tahreef issue.

If you consider Shia Islam to be the divine path yet claim tahreef in the Quran, you've questioned the most vital fundamental source of your religion, hence Shiasm automatically loses credibility.

I hope you are not trying to be apologetic for Sunnism here. Sunnis have a rich history, both in tafseer and in fiqh for believing in tahreef. There was also khilaf on the issue among Shi'is as well, some rejected it, some accepted it. Ayatollah Khui rejected tahreef and thought it was a stupid idea, so I don't know what your point with that link was.

Historically tahreef was not a taboo subject and many accepted it, either explicitly or implicitly. It's only recently that the subject has become taboo on a large scale which is partly due to modern Muslim insecurities about their faith and text.

I don't see how believing in tahreef puts the Qur'an under question as questions of tahreef are usually specific to a few verses. I don't see how simply taking out of "Ali" from the Qur'an abolishes the Book's larger message on tawheed, ma'ad, akhlaq, aql etc. The general message is in tact regardless.

To some degree qardawhi is right, Shias need unity much more than Sunnis do. Given that Sunnis are a vast majority it only makes sense for them to try and dominate. The problem is that they have been in such a state of decline that they generally find themselves in such a weak state. Because shiaism is strong in certain areas and has been more impactful on the world stage the last few decades it has increased our stature and their need to coexist and work with us especially since the enemies of Islam don't care about Shia and Sunni unless it is to cause fitna. If Sunnis had credible leadership they could easily marginalize us, but because they don't it creates a need for cooperation. Of course the increased interaction has led to more conversions and more influence which has then led to the backlash and the rise of the takfiri elements that are so rabidly anti Shia.

The problem is that Sunnis need a boogeyman (Shias or Jews or Iranians) or else they will be at each other's throats.

Edited by Hannibal

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And the bogeyman mentality is a result if their massive insecurity. Their history is one of power and glory and they revere those who brought power and glory to Islam, especially in the material sense. This has especially been heightened under the Salafi thought and because of their current state of weakness especially when it comes to scholarship and leadership they are even more paranoid and reactionary which is bad for us and Islam in general.

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I hope you are not trying to be apologetic for Sunnism here. Sunnis have a rich history, both in tafseer and in fiqh for believing in tahreef. There was also khilaf on the issue among Shi'is as well, some rejected it, some accepted it. Ayatollah Khui rejected tahreef and thought it was a stupid idea, so I don't know what your point with that link was.

Historically tahreef was not a taboo subject and many accepted it, either explicitly or implicitly. It's only recently that the subject has become taboo on a large scale which is partly due to modern Muslim insecurities about their faith and text.

There are much more Sunni scholars who believe in tahreef than shias, in fact one could argue the overwhelming majority of sunni scholars believe in it. Most of them accept the narrations of the verses being lost or forgotten or eaten by goats etc. Their explanation is that those verses were abrogated any way .. so it doesnt matter. Yet the quran has other verses still in it - that they claim were abrogated. The whole thing doesnt make any sense..

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