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In the Name of God بسم الله

The Big Debates: Islamoratheism -Tzortis Vs Krauss

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  • Veteran Member

Does it matter? He has made an effort to think independently as shown by his Quran argument.
What matters is that he's a muslim taking on atheist intellectuals using rational arguments, and winning. The only person that I can think of that comes close is Hasanain Rajabali.


Brother, he quotes Craig word for word! And Craig knows it. I saw a post on Criag's FB page where he acknowledges that Adam Deen and other Muslim debaters use his material in that manner. There is nothing wrong with using the same arguments but to use material word for word is terrible. I don't think that Tzortis and Deen are very good thinkers, you can do a lot better. I have reason to believe that Tzortis is a bit of a shia hater too. Edited by Muhammed Ali
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I understand that this is only coming from my word and do not have the evidence to support what I say, however.. I met Tzortis a while back and really find him disrespectful and ignorant towards shi3a Muslims He spoke to me in the most sarcastic tone upon finding out I was shi3a.

I appreciate that Tzortis does a lot in debates with atheists however that does not necessarily mean that everything he says should be warmly accepted by all Muslims. There are huge flaws in his books and gaps in his knowledge. One should look at him objectively rather than from a strictly Muslim point of view. Like any speaker, they should be welcome to criticism. If he is wrong, Muslims should stand up and say something he has said is wrong; rather than overlook what he says, solely due to him being Muslim. That is not how it should work. The idea is to improve, not stay where we are.

Salam..

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  • 2 months later...
I understand that this is only coming from my word and do not have the evidence to support what I say, however.. I met Tzortis a while back and really find him disrespectful and ignorant towards shi3a Muslims He spoke to me in the most sarcastic tone upon finding out I was shi3a.

 

What did he say to you?

 

I appreciate that Tzortis does a lot in debates with atheists however that does not necessarily mean that everything he says should be warmly accepted by all Muslims. There are huge flaws in his books and gaps in his knowledge. One should look at him objectively rather than from a strictly Muslim point of view. Like any speaker, they should be welcome to criticism. If he is wrong, Muslims should stand up and say something he has said is wrong; rather than overlook what he says, solely due to him being Muslim. That is not how it should work. The idea is to improve, not stay where we are.

 

This applies to everyone. Unfortunately, this common sense objective truth is rarely put into practice.

 

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  • 2 months later...
  • Veteran Member

A few non-muslims are beginning to expose him.

 

http://geoffsshorts.blogspot.ie/2012/02/interfaith-dialogue-hamza-tzortzis-and.html

 

Be aware that the following video has some swearwords and is made by an Islam hater.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE0RtCSyJPQ

 

On his website, Hamza has pretty much admitted committing plagiarism. He has left this note on many of his articles:

 

[Editorial Note: Many of the articles on this website were taken from an old blog that was authored by Hamza Andreas Tzortzis. Some of the written work are compilations of various thinkers and philosophers such as the Philosopher William Lane Craig, Dr. Jafaar Idris and others. In the next few months the articles will be updated and changed to move away from compilations and a blog style, to a more academic tone with sound referencing.]

Edited by Muhammed Ali
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I don't understand, why are you promoting exposes of him? I understand you don't like him, but it seems you have a personal vendetta against the guy. He may copy WLG, but he has his own style and debates effectively. It's not as if WLG is somehow speaking to him through a wire, giving him answers to every objection. Obviously, the guy goes through a great deal of research to debate as effectively as he does.

 

Give the guy some credit, jeez.

Edited by Fiasco
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I believe Muhammed Ali is right;

Islam should have its own thinkers rather than stand or fall with the opinions of Christian apologists.

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Fair enough. But most of these arguments aren't really original. William Lane Craig didn't necessarily create them, he just expresses them very very effectively.

 

Edited by Fiasco
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Fair enough. But most of these arguments aren't really original. William Lane Craig didn't necessarily create them, he just expresses them very very effectively.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head when you mention originality.

 

Islam has different theological margins to Christianity, these margins should be exploited rather then conflated.

The God of Islam has not yet lost His mystique;..more should be made of it  

 

wslm.

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