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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Ali-F

Imam Muza Al-Kazim Miracle With A Lion Subhanllah!

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what jungle exists in Iraq or Arabia or what Lions? I am sorry but I can't imagine an Imam roaring.

 

Sister Amina I accept that Allah can protect someone from animals, also if you just watch a documentary on lions you will see the lion does not care about the lioness and even tries to kill the lioness and the lion cubs, male lions don't at all care about lioness' but they are in danger of being killed by lions, a lion only mates with them and goes away. there is no taking care of his lioness.

 

Also, aren't miracles supposed to useful? whats the use in getting kissed by a lion and how is this even real? Cmon, the Imams were a guide to mankind, not animals.

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what jungle exists in Iraq or Arabia or what Lions? I am sorry but I can't imagine an Imam roaring.

Sister Amina I accept that Allah can protect someone from animals, also if you just watch a documentary on lions you will see the lion does not care about the lioness and even tries to kill the lioness and the lion cubs, male lions don't at all care about lioness' but they are in danger of being killed by lions, a lion only mates with them and goes away. there is no taking care of his lioness.

Also, aren't miracles supposed to useful? whats the use in getting kissed by a lion and how is this even real? Cmon, the Imams were a guide to mankind, not animals.

(Salam)

I dont know about the video, but I read this hadith at many different places.

Basically from what I rem.

1. A women claiming to be syedani was spreading evil.

2. Imam says give proof by going in the cage where the lions are, as they don't eat prophets bloodline.

3. She gets scared and doesn't go inside and challenges the imam

4. Imam goes inside and non of the animals harm him, and comes and sit around the imam. And stuff happened. BTW there have been other cases of bird complaining about their mates. Etc in other hadith.

5. Imam comes out and asks her again.

6. She confesses she isn't a syedani iirc.

7. This all happened in the kings/ caliphs court.

A)Now tell me do you think Imam can't talk to animals?

B)Do you really think a king can't have lions caged in his palace?

C)Do you see the reason imam did this?

D)Don't you believe Allah made hazrat Aadam (as) His Caliph over the creatures of earth, didnt imam (as) Inherited this rank as well?

E) you should be careful before saying such things about the shias or imams (as)

Since you are so dumbgounded by this hadith what do you think of the following:

Imam Ja'far (as) was asked about the Earth, what is it (the Earth) on top of?

Imam Jafar(as) replied: It is on top of a whale (or large fish).

He(as) was asked: And the whale, what is it on top of?

Imam Jafar(as) relied: It is on water.

He(as) was asked: And the water, what is it on top of?

Imam Jafar(as) relied: It is on a rock.

He(as) was asked: And on what thing is the rock?

Imam Jafar(as) replied: On the smooth horn of a bull.

He(as) was asked: And on what thing is the horn?

Imam Jafar(as) replied: On soil.

He(as) was asked: And on what thing is the soil?

Imam Jafar(as) replied: What a strange notion/it is incomprehensible! At this flounders the knowledge of the scholars!

Grading: Saheeh according to Allamah Majlisi

(wasalam)

Edited by Lordofgemini

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(salam)

I dont know about the video, but I read this hadith at many different places.

Basically from what I rem.

1. A women claiming to be syedani was spreading evil.

2. Imam says give proof by going in the cage where the lions are, as they don't eat prophets bloodline.

3. She gets scared and doesn't go inside and challenges the imam

4. Imam goes inside and non of the animals harm him, and comes and sit around the imam. And stuff happened. BTW there have been other cases of bird complaining about their mates. Etc in other hadith.

5. Imam comes out and asks her again.

6. She confesses she isn't a syedani iirc.

7. This all happened in the kings/ caliphs court.

A)Now tell me do you think Imam can't talk to animals?

B)Do you really think a king can't have lions caged in his palace?

C)Do you see the reason imam did this?

D)Don't you believe Allah made hazrat Aadam (as) His Caliph over the creatures of earth, didnt imam (as) Inherited this rank as well?

E) you should be careful before saying such things about the shias or imams (as)

Since you are so dumbgounded by this hadith what do you think of the following:

Imam Ja'far (as) was asked about the Earth, what is it (the Earth) on top of?

Imam Jafar(as) replied: It is on top of a whale (or large fish).

He(as) was asked: And the whale, what is it on top of?

Imam Jafar(as) relied: It is on water.

He(as) was asked: And the water, what is it on top of?

Imam Jafar(as) relied: It is on a rock.

He(as) was asked: And on what thing is the rock?

Imam Jafar(as) replied: On the smooth horn of a bull.

He(as) was asked: And on what thing is the horn?

Imam Jafar(as) replied: On soil.

He(as) was asked: And on what thing is the soil?

Imam Jafar(as) replied: What a strange notion/it is incomprehensible! At this flounders the knowledge of the scholars!

Grading: Saheeh according to Allamah Majlisi

(wasalam)

Firstly, I am sorry if I offend someone by my posts, I can get emotional over these things so sorry.

 

It seems like we have a different view of Islam, the world being on a bulls horn hadith?? I have heard it but I think you can realize that it is a false hadith, on what horn does the world exist? what horn??

 

If you people want to base your belief on such stories then go ahead, you won't listen to me and you won't use logic to see if it's true or not, my doubt is also not about the position of Imams for Imam Ali said "2 kinds of people do not like me, one who underestimates me and one who overestimates me" I am not underestimating the Imams but you shouldn't overestimate them.

 

Again, choose where to base your belief, either use logic and realize the falsehood of some of these hadith or accept them simply because you call yourself shia and it seems to be praising your Imam.

 

Slowly some, not all, shia people are turning into the christian/Jewish type, when they say you will not go to heaven if you are not a christian/Jew, now we have shias saying the same thing. The key to heaven is with Allah alone.

 

I for one, would like to use reasoning to see if a hadith I see is logical and true, Miracles are done with the permission from Allah, and they should not be held lightly. Nowadays, whenever shias hear something that seems like it is praising their belief, Behold they are Glad, and when you speak against something which seems to be praising the Imams but it is actually an insult and when someone like me tells you that this is a mockery of the Imam but the writer did not intend this, you put your fingers in your ears and refuse to reason yourselves, when you hear something that is true but you perceive it not and the truth seems false to you when you believe in something that is false then you lose your sense of logic and choose to believe pointless things and leave the real Islam.

 

May you see the important part of Islam and base your belief on logic rather than baseless superstition.

Edited by Sayed Faridoon Taha

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It seems like we have a different view of Islam, the world being on a bulls horn hadith?? I have heard it but I think you can realize that it is a false hadith, on what horn does the world exist? what horn??

If you people want to base your belief on such stories then go ahead, you won't listen to me and you won't use logic to see if it's true or not, my doubt is also not about the position of Imams for Imam Ali said "2 kinds of people do not like me, one who underestimates me and one who overestimates me" I am not underestimating the Imams but you shouldn't overestimate them.

Again, choose where to base your belief, either use logic and realize the falsehood of some of these hadith or accept them simply because you call yourself shia and it seems to be praising your Imam.

Slowly some, not all, shia people are turning into the christian/Jewish type, when they say you will not go to heaven if you are not a christian/Jew, now we have shias saying the same thing. The key to heaven is with Allah alone.

I for one, would like to use reasoning to see if a hadith I see is logical and true, Miracles are done with the permission from Allah, and they should not be held lightly. Nowadays, whenever shias hear something that seems like it is praising their belief, Behold they are Glad, and when you speak against something which seems to be praising the Imams but it is actually an insult and when someone like me tells you that this is a mockery of the Imam but the writer did not intend this, you put your fingers in your ears and refuse to reason yourselves, when you hear something that is true but you perceive it not and the truth seems false to you when you believe in something that is false then you lose your sense of logic and choose to believe pointless things and leave the real Islam.

May you see the important part of Islam and base your belief on logic rather than baseless superstition.

(Salam)

Stop with the blame game. Let's try to have an academic discussion.

Fine Go ahead say its a fabrication; but the truth is there are dozens of such hadith from different sources. Heres one from a sunni source, completly unrelated to the imams.

(Nun) He says: Allah swears by the Nun,which is the whale that carries the earths on its back while in Water, and beneath which is the Bull and under the Bull is the Rock and under the Rock is the Dust and none knows what is under the Dust save Allah

↑Ibn abbas (ra) tafseer

The thing is we don't have enough knowledge to even simply see the truth. As for the Bulls horns it is metaphorically referred to the mountain, so I helped u a bit on this matter. But use your own logic brother for under standing rest of the hadith. And search in al kafi for others of its like.

Now lets discuss the hadith of lions with logic, please answer the questions I asked you.

And btw bro this wasn't even a miracle, or some super natural happening like moon being broken in half or a staff turned to a snake. Or stones bowing to the prophet(s). It was something totally reasonable.

I suppose you don't believe in intercession of the prophet(s) and say Key to heaven with is with Allah only. Its is will Allah indeed and with those whom He wills. Had we all been judged justly none would make it to the heavens save a few.

As for Imam Ali(as)s hadith, yes it reffer to the ghullu belief and the sun I belief. You do know we keep the rank of imams lower than that of the prophet (s),so how are we exaggerating if I may ask. That you are accusing us of shirk like the Christians.

Do you know even magic is done with the permission of Allah, what's the point?

May Allah guide us to sirat al Mustaqeem and get rid of all the pride in our heart and make us His humble servants.

(Wasalam)

Edited by Lordofgemini

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what jungle exists in Iraq or Arabia or what Lions? I am sorry but I can't imagine an Imam roaring.

 

Sister Amina I accept that Allah can protect someone from animals, also if you just watch a documentary on lions you will see the lion does not care about the lioness and even tries to kill the lioness and the lion cubs, male lions don't at all care about lioness' but they are in danger of being killed by lions, a lion only mates with them and goes away. there is no taking care of his lioness.

 

Also, aren't miracles supposed to useful? whats the use in getting kissed by a lion and how is this even real? Cmon, the Imams were a guide to mankind, not animals.

 

 

No... Lions used to live in arabia, this is a very well known fact. Hamza, the uncle of the Prophet, used to hunt lions. Lions used to live in Iraq up until Saddam exterminated them only a few decades ago.

 

The term "Jungle" is probably a mis-translation... It doesn't necessarily mean a literal rainforest, jungle in this case is probably just a generic term for "the wild habitat"

 

Male lions DO take care of their pride. The reason why a lion roars is to ward off other male lions from his territory and his pride of lionesses and cubs. In documentaries you always see one single male lion with with many lionesses. What you are referring to is tigers who carry out the behaviour of trying to kill females and cubs. 

 

Miracles meant to be useful? So what was the point of splitting the moon by the Prophet (pbuh)? Why did Isa (as) raise a dead man to life? Why did Musa (as) hand glow white and turn his rod into a snake? For fun??? These miracles are proofs of their prophethood and imamate.

 

I can't imagine a Prophet or an Imam to not care for the well being of all creatures.... Why did the Prophet (pbuh) instruct his army to not harm a single animal or plant when marching to battle?

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No animal can touch the flesh of a Masoom as it is Haraam for them. When you will die and go to your grave, your body will be consumed by insects. For the insects too, the flesh of a Masoom is haraam. This is Gods Grace upon them. 

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Forget it, enough arguing.

 

Just answer this if you think this tale is true.

 

How can a lion kiss?

 

Lions never care about lionesses, why did this one care? lionesses grow the cubs away from the lions to stop them from being killed by lions. Why did this lion care about the lioness?

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Forget it, enough arguing.

 

Just answer this if you think this tale is true.

 

How can a lion kiss?

 

Lions never care about lionesses, why did this one care? lionesses grow the cubs away from the lions to stop them from being killed by lions. Why did this lion care about the lioness?

 

Male lions generally kill cubs that are NOT their own offspring when taking over a pride... only in exceptional circumstances will they kill their own, which obviously doesn't apply to the story posted by the OP.

 

I'm sorry brother, but I seriously beg to differ... Male lions do very much care for their pride, females and cubs included. Once again youv'e got the wrong animal... the behaviour you are referring to belongs to animals such as tigers and bears who are solitary animals by nature, unlike the lion which has a very social and family oriented lifestyle.

 

The kissing issue... i think was answered in another post.

 

Now I am ready to stop arguing lol

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