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In the Name of God بسم الله

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(salam) This is a public service message to the community at large in regards to an individual who is purporting to be a scholar of the howza. I am aware of the sensitive nature of these typ

You are a sunni. The problem with sunnis is that they are willing to overlook the unacceptable crimes of some people, i.e. the so called sahabah. The sunnis don't stop with these 'sahabah', they do th

Quite ironic, given his name.

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On June 3, 2017 at 1:28 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Somebody ought to wipe that goofy grin on his face. He's not fooling the sensible with his nonsense. I can't believe he's not defrocked already.

Practical question from an outsider: I'm unclear on how your " clergy" is vetted. If you build a mosque, how do you go about deciding on and checking the credentials of your worship leader?

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3 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Practical question from an outsider: I'm unclear on how your " clergy" is vetted. If you build a mosque, how do you go about deciding on and checking the credentials of your worship leader?

It's a trust system: you must be sane, knowledgeable about Islam and trustworthy, three things Tawhidi isn't apparently. I don't know anything beyond that. Note that in Islam, we don't have a priesthood or a clergy like the Church of Rome. Basically scholars are our worship leaders.

I used the word defrocked because I don't know what it is actually called when the hawza takes the turban/emameh away from you. Which is what should happen to Tawhidi.

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1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I used the word defrocked because I don't know what it is actually called when the hawza takes the turban/emameh away from you. Which is what should happen to Tawhidi.

From what I hear in more traditional hawza's they even give you the turban when you start your studies. Its not about how big your turban is (Tawhidi's is the size of a tire), you can tell someones level (I'm stealing these words from a Sheikh btw) by simply speaking with them and you'll see how they form arguments, if they are honest with their answers, etc.

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1 hour ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

From what I hear in more traditional hawza's they even give you the turban when you start your studies. 

There needs to be a system to take away the turban he's been given, if he leaves his studies before graduation or when he obviously deviates from the principles of the hawza he attended. 

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44 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

There needs to be a system to take away the turban he's been given, if he leaves his studies before graduation or when he obviously deviates from the principles of the hawza he attended. 

No, we need a condemnation from the office of Sayed Sadiq Shirazi. I honestly think we should send an open letter to them about our concerns. If they actually get to the Sayed that would be great, because he's a very humble man from what I hear. 

OR:

If you guys want since my uncle will be visiting Canada, before he leaves I can write a letter to Sayed Shirazi. I can get it to his office because my aunt through my grandmother knows that the son and daughter of a family friend are both studying in Qom. That means I will send it thru my uncle Inshallah.

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There needs to be a system to take away the turban he's been given, if he leaves his studies before graduation or when he obviously deviates from the principles of the hawza he attended. 

Each hawza needs to maintain a list of successful graduates. Anyone who leaves hawza early (runs away or drops out) should not be on the list and not allowed to claim he is a Sheikh. Anyone who is a successful graduate of hawza and later on deviates from Shia Islam should have their name crossed out from the list, i.e., Sheikh Mohammad Tawhidi.

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19 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

Each hawza needs to maintain a list of successful graduates. Anyone who leaves hawza early (runs away or drops out) should not be on the list and not allowed to claim he is a Sheikh. Anyone who is a successful graduate of hawza and later on deviates from Shia Islam should have their name crossed out from the list, i.e., Sheikh Mohammad Tawhidi.

There are a lot of rumours about him. Some say he didn't even travel to Karbala, and got kicked out in less than a month. The guys who run the Pearls of Islam youtube channel did a video exposing him, and they mentioned something about him womanizing while in Qom. Weird guy.....

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6 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

It's a trust system: you must be sane, knowledgeable about Islam and trustworthy, three things Tawhidi isn't apparently. I don't know anything beyond that. Note that in Islam, we don't have a priesthood or a clergy like the Church of Rome. Basically scholars are our worship leaders.

I used the word defrocked because I don't know what it is actually called when the hawza takes the turban/emameh away from you. Which is what should happen to Tawhidi.

Yes, I knew you didn't have formal clergy, which is why I put it in quotation marks. I just wondered what kind of control systems there are to keep some sketchy types out ( not that you don't also get sketchy types with a hierarchy ).

At least with a Catholic priest or Protestant minister, you know where the person studied , what churches pastored,etc. The Catholic priests are probably not going to get up and teach against the Vatican.

I see the above behavior more in the Nuage community ...plastic shamen wildly pontificating everywhere. 

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4 minutes ago, LeftCoastMom said:

I see the above behavior more in the Nuage community ...plastic shamen wildly pontificating everywhere. 

Shame, and we are very against shamanism and the like. Tawhidi "studied" at one of the best hawzas in the Shia world, and look at the guy. He's a few French fries short of a happy meal to put it nicely, LCM.

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4 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Shame, and we are very against shamanism and the like. Tawhidi "studied" at one of the best hawzas in the Shia world, and look at the guy. He's a few French fries short of a happy meal to put it nicely, LCM.

The issue around here is not the traditional " shamans" ( that is a generic and foreign word  outside people use to refer to traditional tribal religious leaders...every tribe had its own words,but it is a handy catch-all term) but the Nuage ones ( usually not even native or associated with a tribe or tradition )who are complete loose cannons.  They tend to avoid actual native communities and suck up to the dominant culture. It is either irritating or amusing to watch. 

Much of the time the occasional native who does this is often shunned or thumped by their communities. ( Why, with all the issues going on in native communities ,would a genuine native spiritual leader have much  time at all to go outside their community and spend all of their energy on outsiders? Makes zero sense.) I know of one whose " Indian name" has been tongue-in-cheek changed to "We don't claim him". Looks like you might  have the same tradition?

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1 hour ago, LeftCoastMom said:

Looks like you might  have the same tradition?

At the face of it, that's what it looks like but it's more like a loose cannon professes to be a devout Catholic, joins a seminary, gets kicked out and starts telling the laymen that he that is a reputable member of the Church.

Then, he starts preaching completely contrary to the Bible, claims to be the Pope and denounces the Church of Rome all in one shot and the seminary just overlooks these views and doesn't bother to defrock him.

^That's Tawhidi in a nutshell. 

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@DigitalUmmah

I see, I thought he was already murtad by now for call himself "Imam". I don't know, he seems smarter than Mirza Ghulam Ahmed, at least his English is light years ahead of that guy. Taking badly butchered English and calling it a prophecy, my my. Such unrivalled eloquence, pfft.

Allahu allam, we'll have to wait and see about Tawhidi.

Edited by Heavenly_Silk
Replaced long quote with tag.
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44 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I see, I thought he was already murtad by now for call himself "Imam". I don't know, he seems smarter than Mirza Ghulam Ahmed, at least his English is light years ahead of that guy. Taking badly butchered English and calling it a prophecy, my my. Such unrivalled eloquence, pfft.

well, yes and no. he went through a phase of being "poetical" with regards to maula Ali (as). lots of people do, I certainly did. the problem with him was that he strayed waaaaaaay into shirk. he thought he was showing how marifat-ey he was, actually he was just being a muppet. 

I have it on good authority that he was expelled from qom because he simply couldn't cut it. he never attended lessons, flopped all his tests etc, plus was on some form of anti psychotic medicine. so its not as simple as writing him off as a murtad back then - we dont know if it was just his ignorance, his showing off or his psychosis making him act that way. so we have to give him the benefit of the doubt and 70 excuses like we would give anyone. 

more recently, however, its a whole different situation. he has clearly thought up a very well defined plan and is carrying it out. this means to me that he is in full control of his senses and actions, and therefore is fully responsible. at the moment he is simply a traitor and a liar and a sellout. once he starts denything the quran he could also add a murtad to his CV. 

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On 05/06/2017 at 8:56 AM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

This guy also is good friends with Ammar Nakashwani lol. I am a bit confused. Why doesn't Ammar just come out and condemn him, if he is such a controversial figure?

If it's true that they are good friends, then that would raise serious questions about Nakshawani.

I don't know if they are friends, but there was a picture taken of them together not that long ago and there is no way that Nakshawani isn't aware of the controversy around Tawhidi. If nothing else, he must have come across this thread by now.

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2 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

If it's true that they are good friends, then that would raise serious questions about Nakshawani.

I don't know if they are friends, but there was a picture taken of them together not that long ago and there is no way that Nakshawani isn't aware of the controversy around Tawhidi. If nothing else, he must have come across this thread by now.

Yes, I am very disappointed at Ammar for not speaking out against Tawhidi. I think someone with guts needs to call Ammar in his live Ramadan show and straight up ask about Tawhidi. I am not sure if he will be comfortable answering but he really needs to make it clear. I don't like to see absurd statements from Tawhidi and then no famous Shia leaders willing to condemn him.

Right now it seems as if Ammar doesn't have anything against Tawhidi. Or maybe Ammar Nakashwani fears that speaking out against Tawhidi will make non-Muslims hate him, since Tawhidi does have a lot of non-Muslim supporters who feel Tawhidi is the only peaceful Imam. 

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Tawhidi's Twitter and Facebook accounts are interesting. It seems he is now condemning Islamic 'scriptures' (he doesn't explicitly say the Qur'an, but this is the impression he wants to give his army are extreme right-wing fans), and is also busy pretending to support the LGBT cause.

 

His followers then asked the obvious question: "Why then be a Muslim?", to which he obviously offers no reply.

 

 

Talk about irony.

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Just now, kirtc said:

He is lucky that Imam Khamanei is not the oppressor your guy says he is, otherwise he wouldn't be free to spread fitnah

Who said he is spreading fitnah? He comes from an honorable family of scholars. 

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2 hours ago, gotmuffins! said:

Ayatollah Sayed Shirazi gets his picture taken with everyone, check out this vid from today: 

Tawhidi had a private audience with him, it is hardly the same thing.

Also the Shirazi office recommended tawhidi to islamic centers around the world for lectures, and have probably given him the financial backing to open schools and institutions in multiple countries.

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27 minutes ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Tawhidi had a private audience with him, it is hardly the same thing.

Also the Shirazi office recommended tawhidi to islamic centers around the world for lectures,  and have probably given him the financial backing to open schools and institutions in multiple countries. 

I remain unconvinced that the Ayatollah endorses Tawhidi's craziness. He is probably unaware of Tawhidi's activities. I also remain unconvinced that the Shirazi family is backed by Western governments. If you have proof of your above claim, I would love to see it, I'll change my marj'a. Wasalam.

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45 minutes ago, gotmuffins! said:

I remain unconvinced that the Ayatollah endorses Tawhidi's craziness. He is probably unaware of Tawhidi's activities. I also remain unconvinced that the Shirazi family is backed by Western governments. If you have proof of your above claim, I would love to see it, I'll change my marj'a. Wasalam.

I don't know about western governments,  that wasn't my point. 

I also can't see what Tawhidi's angle here could be, or why no one in the Shirazi camp has spoken against him.

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1 hour ago, gotmuffins! said:

I remain unconvinced that the Ayatollah endorses Tawhidi's craziness. He is probably unaware of Tawhidi's activities. 

From March 25, 2013, when this ShiaChat topic was created, nobody has contacted Tawhidi's marja to let him know what Tawhidi is doing? 

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