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In the Name of God بسم الله

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That's a blind observation with all due respect.

Sayid Sadiq Alshirazi's line is not to be grouped and compared to that of Mujtaba Alshirazi and Yaser habeeb. I'd like to compare those to Shia wahabies destroying the name of Shiasm and its followers.

These guys are not worth the dirt on Sayid Sadiq Alshirazi's feet. That being said, iI'm not a follower of the sayid but unfortunately almany judge him based on the followers of Yaser Habeeb.

 

Bro, you didn't really comment on his comment though. He wasn't grouping from what I understood, he is simply saying what many people notice, that these "sheikhs" Yasser, Tawhidi, Mujtaba etc etc, are "somehow" connected to him, either by blood, relation or simply saying they follow him. So the observation is, why are all these bad mouthing sheykhs connected to Ayatollah Shirazi, and why isn't the Ayatollah denouncing them? And if he as, then we should probably make that more clear. 

 

Do you know who the owner of the TV broadcasting channels that broadcast Yasser videos, mujtaba videos, and funds some of these is? 

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The Official Brother Tawhidi Youtube Channel???

 

...I'm speechless

Yes it is the official account of Sheikh Tawhidi. What is your problem with him respecting his Marja? All you guys are posting fake information about Sheikh Tawhidi and attacking him when he has not done anything wrong. If you guys want to debate, debate properly, and don't attack. You should criticize if you think your correct but do not lie

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^Why do I get the feeling the post above me is brother Tawhidi himself...  :huh:

 

This guy's views are craaazy. I used to follow him on twitter about a year ago until I was BLOWN AWAY by his absurd tweets that many have already quoted in this topic. I wonder if mainstream scholars know about him views and have made steps to openly condemn him. 

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We don't know what Sayyid Shirazi knows, or thinks, but he does seem to attract a lot of these types of people. Whenever you find someone who comes out with deviant statements, or who is fond of using vulgar language, they almost always seem connected to the Shirazi clan in some way or another (and appear to have an extreme reverence for Sayyid Sadiq Shirazi). I'm not saying it's the Sayyid's fault. Just making an observation.

 

If you take a broader view of contemporary Shia politics, the Shirazi clan represents a somewhat alternative view of leadership to what offered by the WF-led leadership. So those who have deep opposition to WF leadership try to seek legitimacy for their views by associating themselves with the Shirazi clan, or purporting to be their followers, whether Shirazis like it or not, endorse them or not. So you're right in saying it's not the sayyed (Sadiq Shirazi's) fault.

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Yes it is the official account of Sheikh Tawhidi. What is your problem with him respecting his Marja? All you guys are posting fake information about Sheikh Tawhidi and attacking him when he has not done anything wrong. If you guys want to debate, debate properly, and don't attack. You should criticize if you think your correct but do not lie

 

 

No, people here are not providing false information. The only 'false information' appears to be the imagine he is attempting to project of himself. That being a pious student of knowledge (no, a sheykh even!), when, SubhanAllah, it's clear as day that this is in itself false.

 

The contributors of this thread have sourced Tawhidi's material and or made direct reference to his Twitter and Facebook pages which anyone wiith a spare 3 minutes can go and verify themselves. Moreover, this thead contains testimonies of brothers who are eye-witnesses to the behaviour and character of your "sheikh" which has and can be further varified by other individuals. 

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That's a blind observation with all due respect.

Sayid Sadiq Alshirazi's line is not to be grouped and compared to that of Mujtaba Alshirazi and Yaser habeeb. I'd like to compare those to Shia wahabies destroying the name of Shiasm and its followers.

These guys are not worth the dirt on Sayid Sadiq Alshirazi's feet. That being said, iI'm not a follower of the sayid but unfortunately almany judge him based on the followers of Yaser Habeeb.

 

Salam Br., 

 

 

 

IMO, this is not a new thing. The things that Yasir Habib have been doing and now Tawhidi have been going on for a while now and they are very well know. So for the marjaa' that they all claim to do taqleed to to be silent on the issue, leave a big question mark in my mind regarding Sayid Shirazi. 

 

BTW, this has happened in the past, not with cursing but with other issues where people would do something against Sharia, then claim a marjaa' allows it, and then marjaa' would denounce them. 

 

There was a case in the US involving credit card fraud and people doing it and claiming Sayyid Fadlallah(ra) allows it. They were claiming that he classified the people of the US are Harbiyyat(Those who are at war with Islam and Muslims) so it was allowed on that basis. Sayyid Fadlallah(ra) made a video tape denouncing those people and their actions and explicitly stating that the people of the US were not Harbiyyat(fiqh classification) and that credit card fraud is absolutely haram and had this tape circulated to all the masjids where these people attended and had it played during Muharram. This was in the early 90s before Internet when doing these sorts of things was much more expensive and difficult vs today. 

 

So I'm not quite sure what is going on with Sayid Shirazi and these people but he has a duty to say something regarding this. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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Yes it is the official account of Sheikh Tawhidi. What is your problem with him respecting his Marja? All you guys are posting fake information about Sheikh Tawhidi and attacking him when he has not done anything wrong. If you guys want to debate, debate properly, and don't attack. You should criticize if you think your correct but do not lie

Have you even read this thread? You don't think there is anything wrong with the kufr he posts, the language he uses, or the fitna he tries to spread?

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Salams,

Yes, I did spend a good 5 hours with brother Tawhidi last night. A couple of things came out of it and again this is all based on my judgements knowing the brother for the past 2 years:

The brother has changed and matured and is still maturing throughout the years. He reminds me of some of the questionable things the 20 year old me used to post here on ShiaChat that I wouldn't dare say in public. I agree with you all that he should not be public facing while he's going through his maturing process and personal struggle in self realization, but unfortunately this is what we could not agree on. He did however address the point that his posts 2 years ago are different than his posts today. Yes, they're still shocking to read but the majority of his posts are merely facts or personal views. Before you cut my head and place it on a spear, look at for example the post regarding Umar and the camel's anus; If its in the Sunni books, with references that can be provided and available upon request, why are we shooting the messenger? Yes, horrible things to be stated publically while wearing the turban of the prophet, but if these are facts from Sunni books, why are we upset at him exactly for making them public? If he personally believes that Yaser Habeeb will be a Marji3 and possibly a popular one, why are you all up in arms regarding his personal views on his personal account? There are people tweeting about Ayatollah Sayid Khamana'i being the 15th ma3soom, I don't see some of the armchair Jihadies on this thread rising up in anger and disgust about those statements?

Again I will state this, you folks are free to keep this thread open indefinitely and criticize any and all his posts and actions, constructively and objectively. However, when I see people posting "I met him in Hawza and he was kicked out/ a womanizer" then this is nothing but slander and it WILL be edited when I'm done reviewing this thread. I'm sure you would appreciate the same level of protection if these attacks were turned against you. In fact, one of the brothers here quoted a couple of others brothers who've "been to hawza and witnessed Tawhidi's actions" yet I just confirmed that one of the brother he quoted did not even go to Hawza himself.

I did ask brother Tawhidi however to provide his credentials just to avoid these slanderous attacks, and he did confirm he is working on a presentation that will be available on his website. I will inshallah share it when it becomes available.

My personal struggle with the brother is the imbalance between his online persona and his real life self. I've seen him speak to a few sunni brothers locally as well as some sisters who had questions. All of them leave the brother with nothing but praise as to is knowledge and respect. Unfortunately there is a huge gap between the two and we've repeatedly advised him to focus on bridging these gaps to control his online persona and bring it more in line with the Tawhidi that the majority know and respect when they meet him personally. That is a work in progress inshallah.

Before I end my comments, I wanted to address one final point. This thread is about Brother Tawhidi, this is not about Ayatollah Sayid Al-Shiraz and the two should be separated. The views expressed by Brother Tawhidi are not those of Ayatullah Sayid Alshirazi. I do not want to see ANY slander of the Sayid himself, and I'm speaking specifically to the moderators and administrators of this site who are here to uphold the rules that are imposed upon them as well. If you cannot be impartial about these issues, you cannot serve here, and I'm not speaking as a follower or supporter of the Sayid (which I'm neither). I have my personal views about each and every marji3 but I would never allow these views to hinder my moderating of this site. The perfect proof is that the delete thread button is a click away but I would never do that. I urge the Admins and moderators should do the same. Like one of the moderators who posted above me, if you have a picture of Ayatollah Al Sayid AlKomeini as your profile picture, maybe you shouldn't be moderating a thread about Ayatollah AlSayed AlShirazi much like if you're flashing Tatbeer and self flagellation images in your footer you simply could not serve as an impartial unbiased moderator discussing the subject of Tatbeer. Easier said than done, but that's why we try to bring on moderators and administrators from all different views and backgrounds within the Ja3fari school of thought but unfortunately with me being inactive the past few years, the scales have unfortunately tipped tremendously.

I will inshallah try my best to remain active in this thread for both the benefit of public awareness about this issue and in defence against any slander.

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I agree with you Ali, on the point of many coming on here giving testimony of a man and what he has done [supposedly] in the howzah. I find that blatantly dubious. This is online, and there is no way in hell you can trust any body. If you are going to bash someone face value, then you sure as hell better give your own credentials to prove your words value. Anyone who goes around on these forums believing what anyone gives testimony to is very incompetent, with due respect. Giving testimony is not something one accepts right away. I have mentioned this numerous times, unless you have EXPLICIT evidence of someone doing something wrong, it is haram for you to assume and paste things on that individual. I am in no way saying this for tawhidi, but just in general. Many on here are so quick to take their assumptions and baseless conclusions and present it as truth. Yet no one ever calls them out on this. Criticize and present things/people as a possibility of misunderstanding, but dont go damaging someones face without EXPLICIT evidence.

 

(wasalam)

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He reminds me of some of the questionable things the 20 year old me used to post here on ShiaChat that I wouldn't dare say in public.

 

Would you be unfair to yourself to defend him? I remember you as a 20 year old and I think he makes you and many of the 20 year olds on this site look like a saint.

 

My personal struggle with the brother is the imbalance between his online persona and his real life self.  I've seen him speak to a few sunni brothers locally as well as some sisters who had questions.  All of them leave the brother with nothing but praise as to is knowledge and respect.  Unfortunately there is a huge gap between the two and we've repeatedly advised him to focus on bridging these gaps to control his online persona and bring it more in line with the Tawhidi that the majority know and respect when they meet him personally.  That is a work in progress inshallah.

 

 

This is one of the great things about the Internet - it has taught us that people are much more likely to reveal the truth about themselves online. I too have met people offline who are horrendous online. Online you will see the fire, but offline you will only see the smoke. 

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And this is how people allow corruption to grow and spread...

When i see things like this i understand more and more how Abu Bakr and Umar seized power.

When a con man puts on the turban, speaks words of straight up kufr and people defend him...then imagine what someone of a little more intelligence can do...

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Salams,

 

He did however address the point that his posts 2 years ago are different than his posts today. Yes, they're still shocking to read but the majority of his posts are merely facts or personal views. 

It's his personal views that are the main problem. If he has changed his views on certain issues, then he has a duty to disown those former views. Did you ask him if he regretted posting Ali = Allah, and other such things that are on this thread?

Before you cut my head and place it on a spear, look at for example the post regarding Umar and the camel's anus; If its in the Sunni books, with references that can be provided and available upon request, why are we shooting the messenger?  Yes, horrible things to be stated publically while wearing the turban of the prophet, but if these are facts from Sunni books, why are we upset at him exactly for making them public?  

If he has a credible reference, then he should post it at the same time as he speaks about it. Being available in request isn't really good enough. Also, I emphasise the word credible. The fact that something is in a book written by a Sunni, doesn't make it something credible. To give an example, some people have tried to claim that Nade Ali is in Sunni books, when it turns out that the book in question is a book about Shia fabrications. So it's important that the supposed reference be checked out in order to ascertain its context and validity.

Again I will state this, you folks are free to keep this thread open indefinitely and criticize any and all his posts and actions, constructively and objectively.  However, when I see people posting "I met him in Hawza and he was kicked out or a womanizer" then this is nothing but lander and it WILL be edited when I'm done reviewing this thread.  I'm sure you would appreciate the same level of protection if these attacks were turned against you.  In fact, one of the brothers here quoted a couple of others brothers who "been to hawza and witnessed Tawhidi's actions" yet I just confirmed that one of the brother he quoted did not even go to Hawza himself. 

 

Multiple people, from different sources, have all said the same thing. This would only be slander if it turns out to be false. What kind of proof would you need in order to keep the information public?

My personal struggle with the brother is the imbalance between his online persona and his real life self.  I've seen him speak to a few sunni brothers locally as well as some sisters who had questions.  All of them leave the brother with nothing but praise as to is knowledge and respect.  Unfortunately there is a huge gap between the two and we've repeatedly advised him to focus on bridging these gaps to control his online persona and bring it more in line with the Tawhidi that the majority know and respect when they meet him personally.  That is a work in progress inshallah.

This is hardly surprising, since many people are like this. Hence terms like 'keyboard warrior'.

 

Before I end my comments, I wanted to address one final point.  This thread is about Brother Tawhidi, this is not about Ayatollah Sayid Al-Shiraz and the two should be separated.  The views expressed by Brother Tawhidi are not those of Ayatullah Sayid Alshirazi.  I do not want to see ANY slander of the Sayid himself, and I'm speaking specifically to the moderators and administrators of this site who are here to uphold the rules that are imposed upon them as well.  If you cannot be impartial about these issues, you cannot serve here, and I'm not speaking as a follower or supporter of the Sayid (which I'm neither).  I have my personal views about each and every marji3 but I would never allow these views to hinder my moderating of this site.  The perfect proof is that the delete thread button is a click away but I would never do that.  I urge the Admins and moderators should do the same.  Like one of the moderators who posted above me, if you have a picture of Ayatollah Al Sayid AlKomeini as your profile picture, maybe you shouldn't be moderating a thread about Ayatollah AlSayed AlShirazi much like if you're flashing Tatbeer and self flagellation images in your footer you simply could not serve as an impartial unbiased moderator discussing the subject of tatbir.

Can you point to any specific slander? Marjas are also public figures, and in many cases also political figures. Sayyid Khomeini and Khamenei often have their political decisions questioned and discussed on this site, sometimes in quite harsh terms, and that has always been allowed. What has been said about Sayyid Shirazi is mild in comparison. Slander would be making unsubstantiated claims, which I haven't seen yet.

I also think that it shouldn't be presumed that just because someone has a certain position on Iran or tatbir that they are incapable of fairly moderating threads on those issues. In fact, I would presume that the perceived ability to do such a thing was one of the reasons they were selected to be a moderator in the first place. In any event, we usually avoid moderating threads where our position may be perceived to lead to bias.

 

Generally speaking, I have to say that it's worrying that even in such a clear cut case, some are willing to make excuses for a speaker. It makes you wonder what exactly someone would need to in order for it to be possible to expose them publicly.

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Ali: Does this guy have to run around naked in public for you to condemn him? I really don't get it....he's done straight up kufr. It doesn't get any clearer than this. Yet, still you defend him? I'm having a very hard time understanding this.

If its a Shirazi/Tatbir issues, then why don't you pick some other person like Yasir Habib. At least he has some proper hawza credentials and doesn't commit Kufr from time to time. Pick Allahyari....pick Obama...all of them are better candidates...

Honestly...why do you support this person and keep inviting him to your masjid after all of this proof. Proof posted by  himself on his own twitter and facebook.

You are definitely going to have to answer for this corrupt individual on the Day of Judgement. He may be corrupt...but its people like you who enable the corruption and allow it to spread...

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