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Jahangiram

Shaykh Saduq And Isnads

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Salam Alaikum. I'm aware that saduq never mentions the isnads for the hadiths in one of his books for brevity. But doesn't this pose a problem? How can we verify every narrator saduq relied upon was trustworthy or even existed? Is there no way to find the isnads in another compilation of his?

Edited by Jahangiram

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Salam Alaikum. I'm aware that saduq never mentions the isnads for the hadiths in one of his books for brevity. But doesn't this pose a problem? How can we verify every narrator saduq relied upon was trustworthy or even existed? Is there no way to find the isnads in another compilation of his?

Which book? Apparently for Manla yazherul faqih he quoted isnaad elsewhere in another book. Its important to remember that he or others from his genre did not base a hadees as sahih due to rijaal alone . If someone looks carefully in his works , he has expressed doubts about a narration and at times even said I do not take responsibility of the sihat of this hadees and says it was narrated to him as such. So it means that 'until and unless specified by him; he trusted his other narrations to be sahih.

Even if someone wants the modern concept of film or rijaal of usuliyeen you will still find him and other thiqah ulema in a better position in terms of aquantance with narrators, first hand or second hand information regarding them. And let us say he doesn't or other thiqah ulema among classical scholars only quote directly from imams a.s due to brevity or other reasons, we are obliged to take ahadees from thiqah as ordered by aimma a.s.

Some prefer to call it ijtehad of classical scholars and say they can't follow their ijtehad although it isnt yet expect people to follow their ijtehad not just in ilm ar rijaal but in the fatwas as well.

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Salam Alaikum. I'm aware that saduq never mentions the isnads for the hadiths in one of his books for brevity. But doesn't this pose a problem? How can we verify every narrator saduq relied upon was trustworthy or even existed? Is there no way to find the isnads in another compilation of his?

(wasalam)

Shaykh as-Saduq cut short the chains for the hadiths in his book because the book was firstly intended for the laypeople and secondly for the sake of brevity. However, he did not leave the book as maraaseel but rather as mu`allaqaat. This is because we can reconstruct the majority of the book by using a piece that he wrote explaining his turuq to the narrators in his Faqih. For example:

وما كان فيه عن علي بن مهزيار فقد رويته عن أبي رضي الله عنه، عن محمد بن يحيى العطار، عن الحسين بن إسحاق التاجر، عن علي بن مهزيار، ورويته عن أبي، عن سعد بن عبد الله، والحميري جميعًا، عن إبراهيم بن مهزيار، عن أخيه علي بن مهزيار، ورويته أيضًا عن محمد بن الحسين رضي الله عنه، عن محمد بن الحسن الصفار، عن العباس بن معروف، عن علي بن مهزيار.

"And what is in it (al-Faqih) from Ali bin Mihzayar, then I have reported it from my father ®. From him (my father) from Muhammad bin Yahya al-`Attar from...."

However, not every hadith in his Faqih reached as-Saduq through the turuq that he gives us for his Faqih. For example:

وروي عن عيسى بن شقفي وكان ساحرا يأتيه الناس ويأخذ على ذلك الاجر قال: فحججت فلقيت أبا عبدالله عليه السلام بمنى فقلت له

"And it is narrated from `Isa b. Shaqafi – and he was a sorcerer whom the people would come to and he would take wage for that. He said: So I did hajj and I met Abu `Abdillah, peace be upon him, at Mina. So I said to him..."

Saduq does not list any turuq to `Isa b. Shaqafi.

Sometimes, it is impossible to reconstruct the turuq. For example:

وقال الصادق عليه السلام

"And as-Sadiq peace be upon him said"

Scholars usually grade the hadiths in al-Faqih by examining shaykh as-Saduq's turuq to them. As for the hadiths that have no chain at all, then some scholars grade them as mursal and others accept them.

Hopefully this helps. WS.

Edited by Cake

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^... The compiler of al-Kafi appears to disagree.

Sorry but im still not convinced, because he LITERALLY didnt state that, and he stated other things in which would be contradictory to what your saying. I still need more evidence for that.

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

السلام عليكم

 

I apologize for bringing up a topic that is over a year old, but I was surprised no one mentioned the book of Shaykh Al-Saduq (ar) called Mashyakhat Al-Faqeeh. As Brother Cake said earlier in the topic, the ahadeeth in Faqeeh for the most part are Mu'allaqat not Maraseel, and can be reconstructed, this book contains the turuq (transmissions) of Shaykh Al-Saduq to narrators, and for every one narrator there's only one tariqa as he says. However, like Brother Cake said, this cannot be applied to Saduq's Maraseel.

 

To show you how it can be used, this is a Hadith from Man La Yahdharahu Al-Faqih:

 


وسأل هشام بن سالم أبا عبد الله عليه السلام عن السطح يبال عليه فتصيبه السماء فيكف فيصيب الثوب، فقال: لا بأس به، ما أصابه من الماء أكثر منه.

 

Man La Yahdharahu Al-Faqih volume 1 page 7-8 hadith 4

 

The narration comes from Hisham ibn Salim, so you go to Mashyakhat Al-Faqih and see the Tariqa for the narrations for Hisham ibn Salim, and the Shaykh writes:


 

وما كان فيه عن هشام بن سالم فقد رويته عن ابى، ومحمد بن الحسن بن احمد ابن الوليد رضى الله عنهما عن سعد بن عبدالله، وعبدالله بن جعفر الحميرى جميعا عن يعقوب بن يزيد، والحسن بن ظريف، وايوب بن نوح عن النضر بن، سويد عن هشام بن سالم، ورويته عن ابي - رضي الله عنه - عن علي بن إبراهيم، عن إبيه عن محمد بن أبي عمير، وعلي بن الحكم جميعا عن هشام بن سالم الجواليقي

 

Mashyakhat Al-Faqih page 8-9 (Commentary and Notes by Muhammad Jafar Shams Al-Diin, Daar Al-Ta'arif Lil-Matbu'at)

 

A link to it online, from page 422 onwards

 

والسلام

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(bismillah)

 but I was surprised no one mentioned the book of Shaykh Al-Saduq (ar) called Mashyakhat Al-Faqeeh. 

(salam)

I wanted to add that, it is not an independent and individual book , it is actually an appendix for the book "Man la yahdhuruhu al-faqeeh" and it is called " Mashyakha" (place of Shaykhs' names) but some scholars cut this part from the book and studied the Shaykhs in it and made a new, independent book .

 

The other point i wanted to share with you is that , this kind of referring to narrators is not something special for Shaykh Saduq . Shaykh At-Toosi ( author of At-Tahzeeb and Al-Istibsar) also applied this way for naming the transmitters of ahadith in both of his books .

 

(wasalam)  

Edited by Malik.Ashtar

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I wanted to add that, it is not an independent and individual book , it is actually an appendix for the book "Man la yahdhuruhu al-faqeeh" and it is called " Mashyakha" (place of Shaykhs' names) but some scholars cut this part from the book and studied the Shaykhs in it and made a new, independent book .

 

The other point i wanted to share with you is that , this kind of referring to narrators is not something special for Shaykh Saduq . Shaykh At-Toosi ( author of At-Tahzeeb and Al-Istibsar) also applied this way for naming the transmitters of ahadith in both of his books .

 

(wasalam)  

Salamun alaykum. Thanks for your first point. As for your second point I believe that there is a great difference between the "Mashykha" of Sheikh Saduq and that of Sheikh Tusi, although both have included this part at the end of their books. Sheikh Saduq in his Man la Yahduruhu al-Faqih (in most cases) only mentions the last person in the chain of narration i.e. the one who directly narrates from the Imam and then in his Mashykha, he refers to the whole chain of narrators (referring to those who have narrated from that last narrator mentioned in the book itself). This is not the case with Sheikh Tusi. In the first and second parts of his al-Istibsar, Sheikh Tusi mentions the whole chain of narrators. However, in the third part of al-Istibsar and also in the whole al-Tahdhib he begins the isnad with the name of the one from whose book he is narrating the narration (and also he mentions other narrators beginning with the author of the book till the last one narrating from the Imam) and then in his Mashykha  he mentions those people who act as intermediaries between him and the authors of those books. Therefore, we may not compare the method of Sheikh Saduq to that of Sheikh Tusi.

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Salamun alaykum. Thanks for your first point. As for your second point I believe that there is a great difference between the "Mashykha" of Sheikh Saduq and that of Sheikh Tusi, although both have included this part at the end of their books. Sheikh Saduq in his Man la Yahduruhu al-Faqih (in most cases) only mentions the last person in the chain of narration i.e. the one who directly narrates from the Imam and then in his Mashykha, he refers to the whole chain of narrators (referring to those who have narrated from that last narrator mentioned in the book itself). This is not the case with Sheikh Tusi. In the first and second parts of his al-Istibsar, Sheikh Tusi mentions the whole chain of narrators. However, in the third part of al-Istibsar and also in the whole al-Tahdhib he begins the isnad with the name of the one from whose book he is narrating the narration (and also he mentions other narrators beginning with the author of the book till the last one narrating from the Imam) and then in his Mashykha  he mentions those people who act as intermediaries between him and the authors of those books. Therefore, we may not compare the method of Sheikh Saduq to that of Sheikh Tusi.

 

Thanks for your complete information , but i didn't say that the Shaykhs of Saduq are the same as of Shaykh Tosi .

 

Thanks anyway!

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