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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why "sayyads" Should Be Given Special Treatment ?

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  • Basic Members

I am asking this question with lot of hesitation,

Can any one explain me satisfactorily why the progeny of Prophet (a.s.) ( called as sayyads) be given special treatment in distribution of Khums ? is this not unfair to other people ? why any one should be given any special status or treatment just because he happens to be from the progeny of the Prophet (a.s.) ? surely if he is born as a sayyad, it is not due to his good deeds.Prophet himself has clearly taught us that every one is equal in front of Allah, the only factor which differentiates is their good deeds or bad deeds. The son of Prophet Nuh (a.s.) was disbeliever and hence he was punished and the wife of Phiraun (Pharoh) was pious, and hence she was rewarded.

When you say that half of khums money is for sayyads only and can not be given to non sayyads, you are creating two kinds of citizens. Share of sayyads can not be given to non sayyads, even if you find that non sayyads are more deserving than sayyads. This is pretty strange, isn't it ? Islam is religion of God. every one is equal in front of God. if a non sayyad is dying, and if you are having khums money which belongs to sayyads, you can not give to a non sayyad, even if he is dying. why ? just because that person happens to be born as non sayyad, he can die, but he can not get any help from sayyad's share of khums. This is not a hypothetical situation,but this is happening every day in India in many charitable organizations. They have lot money with them of Khums which is share of sayyads. And every day non sayyads comes for help who are in really dire need. But they get the standard reply, sorry, we can not give you anything, because this is share of sayyads. ( just imagine, in such kind of situation, what this non sayyad must be thinking ? he must be complaining to Prophet and Allah, that " is it my fault that I was born as a non sayyad ? "

i have heard many hadith from Prophet (a.s.) which says that IF any one who looks after my progeny, I will help him on the day of Qayamat. I simply can not believe that such kind of hadith can be true, because it insults our Prophet !!

Is our Prophet so narrow minded that he will help only those people who has helped his progeny (sayyads) ? And if I take care of deserving non sayyads, he will not help me on the day of Qayamat ? if Prophet was alive today and two persons go to him for help, one sayyad and other non sayyad, both equally deserving, can we believe that our Prophet will be partial and biased and he will help only a sayyad and he will tell non sayyad that sorry I will not give you this khums money because you are not from my progeny ?

The standard argument given by our Aalims is that since Sadaqa is haram for sayyads, that is why they are given special share from Khums. But why create two separate kind of funds ? why sadaqa is haram for sayyads ? are they superior citizens and non sayyads are inferior citizens ? how any one can become a special citizen and have higher rank and deserve special treatment just because luckily he was born in a sayyad family ? HOW WE ARE DIFFERENT FROM HINDUS ? IN HINDU RELIGION BRAHMINS ARE GIVEN SPECIAL STATUS AND IN ISLAMS SAYYADS ARE GIVEN SPECIAL STATUS. AND AS ONE CAN BE CALLED AS A BRAHMIN ONLY IF HE IS BORN IN A BRAHMIN FAMILY, SIMILARLY, YOU CAN BE CALLED A SAYYAD ONLY IF YOU ARE BORN IN A SAYYAD FAMILY. !! .

I shall be really really thankful if some one can give me a satisfactory reply. JAZAKALLAH !

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  • Advanced Member

Salam,

We all need to respect each other, but Say yeds have the dna of The Prophet s.a.w...

The respect is due not to the person, as so much to the genetic origen...

Sayyeds have been at the top throughout time, The only child to reed al Quran inside out is a Say yed,

Iyatullah Khomeene another Say yed, people can get high status, but not higher then a Sayyed who acts accordingly,

I can see why people dont understand as today many Sayyeds are just like most of us away from the true path,

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  • Veteran Member

There are two points for this answer.

the first one : Sayyads are not allowed to get zakat from the non sayyads. So it would have been unfair if they dont have access to most of the charity amount.

I mean, most of the charity, not only by the shias, but also by the other sects is in the form of zakat and not khums.

Sorry, i have some work, Inshallah, i will give the rest of the answer later.

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Sayyeds have been at the top throughout time, The only child to reed al Quran inside out is a Say yed,

I can see why people dont understand as today many Sayyeds are just like most of us away from the true path,

these two statements seem contradictory. Either they are at the top throughout time or they are not.

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alisayyed has the right answer. You can't say that Sayyeds are given special treatment because they get half Khums because they are not allowed to take Zakat or other charities, it is Haraam for them.

Non-Sayyeds have more sources of getting money in case of poverty while Sayyeds have less. So I wouldn't say Sayyeds get special treatment.

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  • Veteran Member
When you say that half of khums money is for sayyads only and can not be given to non sayyads, you are creating two kinds of citizens.

Some Seyyeds are receiving khums money?? :o Where? How? I want to apply for my share. ^^^^

On a serious note, khums money is, or was, given to the Imams so he may distribute it in God's way (to orphans, for jihad, widows, homeless/poor etc.) but given the circumstances it is instead decided to be given to a just Muslim for that distribution or a just, practicing and knowledgeable representative of the Imam (who are mostly seyyeds).

P.S.: Do you per chance know a ordinary x, y, z seyyed like myself who receives khums money?^^ If so I'd like to get set up and receive my share. :P

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There are two points for this answer.

the first one : Sayyads are not allowed to get zakat from the non sayyads. So it would have been unfair if they dont have access to most of the charity amount.

I mean, most of the charity, not only by the shias, but also by the other sects is in the form of zakat and not khums.

Sorry, i have some work, Inshallah, i will give the rest of the answer later.

I am sorry, I forgot the last part of the answer I had thought of.

-----

i have heard many hadith from Prophet (a.s.) which says that IF any one who looks after my progeny, I will help him on the day of Qayamat. I simply can not believe that such kind of hadith can be true, because it insults our Prophet !!

From what I remember, the progeny is being referred to the Ahlulbayt AS.

But that is another point of research.

----

Brahmins had exclusively rights to higher and religious education, either officially or unofficially, which is not the case in Islam.

---

It would be best if someone found information about a saying of a Masumeen AS in this regard.

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  • Veteran Member

It would be best if someone found information about a saying of a Masumeen AS in this regard.

Have you seen this one (from Uyun al Akhbar al-Ridha (a)), :

حَدَّثَنا مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أحْمَد السَنانِي قالَ حَدَّثَنا مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَبي عَبْدِ اللَّه الكُوفِي قالَ حَدَّثَنا الفَيْضُ صالِح بْنِ أحْمَد قالَ حَدَّثَنا سَهْلِ بْنِ زِياد قالَ حَدَّثَنا صالِح بْنِ أَبي حَمَّادٍ قالَ حَدَّثَنا الحَسَن بْنِ مُوسَى بْنِ عَلِى الوَشَّاء البَغدْادي قالَ كُنْتُ بِخُرَاسَانَ مَعَ عَلِيِّ بْنِ مُوسَى الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ فِي مَجْلِسِهِ وَزَيْدُ بْنُ مُوسَى حَاضِرٌ قَدْ أَقْبَلَ عَلَى جَمَاعَةٍ فِي الَْمجْلِسِ يَفْتَخِرُ عَلَيْهِمْ وَيَقُولُ نَحْنُ وَنَحْنُ وَأَبُو الْحَسَنِ‏ عَلَيْـهِ السَّـلامُ مُقْبِـلٌ عَـلَى قَـوْمٍ يُحَدِّثُهُمْ فَسَمِعَ مَقَالَةَ زَيْدٍ فَالْتَفَتَ إِلَيْهِ فَقَالَ يَا زَيْدُ أَغَرَّكَ قَوْلُ نَاقِلِي الْكُوفَةِ إِنَّ فَاطِمَةَ عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ أَحْصَنَتْ فَرْجَهَا فَحَرَّمَ اللَّهُ ذُرِّيَّتَهَا عَلَى النَّارِ فَوَاللَّهِ مَا ذَلِكَ إِلا لِلْحَسَنِ وَالْحُسَيْنِ وَوُلْدِ بَطْنِهَا خَاصَّةً وَأَمَّا أَنْ يَكُونَ مُوسَى بْنُ جَعْفَرٍ عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ يُطِيعُ اللَّهَ وَيَصُومُ نَهَارَهُ وَيَقُومُ لَيْلَهُ وَتَعْصِيهِ أَنْتَ ثُمَّ تَجِيئَانِ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ سَوَاءً لانْتَ أَعَزُّ عَلَى اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ مِنْهُ إِنَّ عَلِيَّ بْنَ الْحُسَيْنِ كَانَ يَقُولُ لُِمحْسِنِنَا كِفْلانِ مِنَ الأَجْرِ وَلِمُسِيئِنَا ضِعْفَانِ مِنَ الْعَذَابِ قَالَ الْحَسَنُ الْوَشَّاءُ ثُمَّ الْتَفَتَ إِلَيَّ فَقَالَ لِي يَا حَسَنُ كَيْفَ تَقْرَءُونَ هَذِهِ الآْيَةَ قالَ يا نُوحُ إِنَّهُ لَيْسَ مِنْ أَهْلِكَ إِنَّهُ عَمَلٌ غَيْرُ صالِحٍ فَقُلْتُ مِنَ النَّاسِ مَنْ (إِنَّهُ عَمَلٌ غَيْرُ صالِحٍ) ومِنْهُمْ من يقرأ إِنَّهُ عَمَلِ غَيْرِ صالِح فَمَنْ قرأ (إِنَّهُ عَمَلٌ غَيْرُ صالِحٍ) فَقَدْ نفاه عَنْ أَبيهِ فَقالَ‏ عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ كلا لَقَدْ كانَ اِبْنِهِ وَلكن لَمّا عصى اللَّه عَزَّ وَجَلَّ نفاه عَنْ أَبيهِ كَذا من كانَ مِنَّا لَمْ يطع اللَّه عَزَّ وَجَلَّ فَلَيْسَ مِنَّا وَأَنْتَ إِذا أطعت اللَّه عَزَّ وَجَلَّ فَأَنت مِنَّا أَهْل البِيْت.

Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Sinani narrated that Muhammad ibn Abi Abdullah al-Kufi quoted on the authority of Abul Faydh Salih ibn Ahmad, on the authority of Sahl ibn Ziyad, on the authority of Saleh ibn Abi Hammad, on the authority of Al-Hassan ibn Musa ibn al-Vosha’ al-Baghdadi, “I was with Ali ibn Musa Al-Reza (s) in his meeting in Khorasan where Zayd ibn Musa (Imam Al-Reza’s brother) was present and was haughty with those present saying that we (meaning the offspring of Imam Musa Al-Kazim (s)) are such and such. Abul Hassan Al-Reza (s) who was talking to others heard what Zayd had said. He (s) faced him and said, ‘O Zayd! Have the words of the narrators from Kufa made you so proud when they say, ‘(The Blessed Lady) Fatima (s) maintained her chastity, thus God has forbidden the Fire from touching her progeny.’ By God, this holds true only for Al-Hassan (s), Al-Hussein (s) and Fatima’s (s) own especial offspring. However, if it were the case that your father Musa ibn Ja’far (s) obeyed God, fasted in the daytime and worshipped God at night, but you disobey God and claim to be equal with him (Musa ibn Ja’far (s)) in the Hereafter on the Resurrection Day, this would imply that you are dearer than him (Musa ibn Ja’far (s)) in the sight of God. In fact, Ali ibn Al-Hussein (s) said, ‘There are double rewards for the good-doers from amongst us, and there are double chastisements for the evil-doers from amongst us.’’”

Al-Hassan al-Washsha’ added, “Then the Imam (s) turned to us and said, ‘O Hassan! How do you recite the following verse?, ‘He said, ‘O Noah! He is not of thy family: For his conduct is unrighteous.’’ I (Al-Hassan al-Washsha’) answered, ‘Some people read it in such a way as to mean ‘his conduct is unrighteous’ while others read it in such a manner as to mean ‘he has done ill’. Indeed those who read it in the first form are implying that he is not really of the family of Noah and consider someone else to be his father.’ The Imam (s) said, ‘No. Indeed he was truly Noah’s son. However, since he disobeyed God the Honorable the Exalted, God separated him from his father. This is exactly the same situation that holds true for us (the Members of the Holy Household of the Prophet Muhammad (s)). Whichever one of us does not obey God the Honorable the Exalted does not belong to us. O Hassan! If you obey God the Honorable the Exalted, then you are one of us - the Members of the Holy Household.’”

http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/library/hadith/uyun_akhbar_al_reza_2/29.htm

(salam)

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  • Veteran Member

Another point that came into my mind is about creating different categories of citizens,

In islam, everyone is not equal, there are gender, age, occupational and other distinctions. Everyone has their own rights and duties.

Ali ibn Al-Hussein (s) said, ‘There are double rewards for the good-doers from amongst us, and there are double chastisements for the evil-doers from amongst us.’’”

The above hadith proves that Sayyeds have more responsibilities.

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  • 1 year later...
  • Advanced Member

Salamun alaykum:

In Islam we have to funds provided for the interest of one society to goes forward; one is the fund of Zakat that everyone even Sayyeds should pay whatever related to this Islamic rulings as well as non-sayyed, this is something Wajib( obligatory) for both, to pay their Zakat as the Quran says; but when this supply(Zakat) comes to be paid for the needs of Sayyed as ordinary members of society like anyone else- they were banned not to earn any penny of it whereas  non- sayyed can earn, So here there are something odd and unfair need to be answered in a clear way! First in the case of receiving Zakat why Sayyed would had been neglected not receiving Zakat? Because Zakat is a fund belongs to the public interest of one society and if Sayyed had an access to this, then from opposite side stood against  the prophet(pbuh) it would have been said; "here again the prophet(pbuh) is making discrimination by putting his relative in charge of  public interest or our own affairs and you know!  "This is another specialty and prejudice! Therefore Islam didn't want Sayyed to be blamed and judged for having access to what is for public so it considered for them another type of fund called Khoums to satisfy their needs through half of it of course.

In other words; in a financial case, not Khoums is an evidence of superiority or upper class of Sayyed over non- Sayyed nor Zakat shows any discrimination, both (Sayyed and non -Sayyed) have their own share from these two funds.

For sure Sayyed in non-financial field for being connected to the lineage of Ahlulbayet they are respected the most, as if respect them equals to respect the prophet himself(pbuh)  according to Hadith: Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is quoted saying: Love me for the sake of Allah and love my progeny for the sake of me!

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  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

First of all, the fact that poor sayyids get their share of help from a different source is not "Special treatment." They take only as much as they need from half of the khoms, the way other poor people take as much as they need from zakat.

If there is more money left than what poor sayyids need, it returns to the treasury and is spent with the other half, and will not be given to the sayyids who are no more in need.

 

Secondly, the reason why sayyids have to be paid from a different source and are prohibited to take money from zakat, is an important point. You see, when a religion as great as Islam is supposed to be spread all over the world and its prophet must be the leader of the religion, many enemies would rise and try to weaken him by disrespecting and using propaganda.

One of the weak points that will give them a chance to fulfill their evil, is the fact that his family are poor and have to ask people for money. It will decrease the prophet's pbuh&hf reputation in the eyes of the people who don't know him very well.

 

To avoid this, Allah swt has cleverly distinguished the relatives of the prophet. What happens out there looks the same, but the way they are given the money is all in favor of the prophet.

 

The normal poor, gets money from the extra goods that people have to cut out and throw away to keep their goods healthy. On the other hand "the relatives of the prophet" get their money from the part of people's goods that are in fact lawfully owned by the prophet and his household.

Despite their similar look, the first one is a conventional charity that people see around the world, while the second one is not.

 

I guess that should clarify the ambiguity.

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Reasons for respecting sayyids:

1. The prophet said "respect my good descendants because of their goodness, and respect the bad ones because of me"

2. they do not receive Zakat, khums is only paid to poor sayyids, rich sayyids don't get it, only poor sayyids get it because they are not allowed to have zakat and in order to preserve the dignity of the imams and the prophet we need to preserve the dignity or their ancestors, that is why sayyids are not allowed to be in professions like shoe polisher or toilet cleaner.

3. Sayyids possess the DNA of the prophet, a piece of the prophets hair and his tooth or his clothing are worthy of being kept in museums and they are given high value but his DNA and living ancestors shouldn't be given special value?

4. Whether you believe it or not, it is evident, take a look at the percentage of Muslim sayyids and non sayyids. sayyids are only a few percent in the shia world yet most religious scholars and mujtahids at the top are sayyids, this is something for you to think about whether they possess special traits or not?

5. They are also from the lineage of Abraham, Abraham's lineage is the one from which our prophets came from, Abraham was a dear friend of Allah and sayyids are the descendants of the prophets, isn't that in itself humbling enough.

 

BTW the "special treatment" you might have noticed isn't forced on people, people treat them nicely because they respect them, not because any one is forcing them. Even sayyids go through the same if not worse hardships as anyone else, My family for example, we lived and some of us still do live among shias in Afghanistan, my grandparents were invited there by those people to teach them Islam, they were given land there by the elders of those tribes and a few generations later, their children they forced my great grandfather with violence and threats to sign the land contract which took away from us most of what we were given by their fore-fathers, now some Mussawi sayyids living there are left with a barren land and families to feed, its a cruel world and sayyids are also caught up in it, so don't accuse us of making ourselves king.

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  • Advanced Member

<<<the DNA of the prophet, a piece of the prophets hair and his tooth or his clothing are worthy of being kept in museums and they are given high value but his DNA and living ancestors shouldn't be given special value?>>>

 

TRUE <3

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  • Advanced Member

thats not true all the sayyeds i know except for one person dont get any khums, the sayyeds get khums because it is haram for them to get donations and sadaga, and only the poor get it.

 

And i think why they are not allowed to take sadaga because some weak minded "muslims" might use it as a way to boast or feel proud that they are giving sadaga to someone who is progeny of prophet (as) , so out of gods kindness he has elevated the prophets blood line from being put in a position where some  "muslim" gives them a sadaga in a "im doing you a favor" kind of way.  Which is one of many blessing our beloved prophets (as) was given from god and i full heartedly accept it.

 

wa allaho a3lam .

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http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235022295-belonging-to-ishtar/

What will get more attention these days, belonging to prophet linage or belonging to ancient queen linage?

Why?

I don't have answer but i was pondering over it lately by making hypothetical comparisons between how we felt about royalties and how we felt about Sayeds, why should royalties come with more respect than syeds?

Are kings more nobel than the prophet?

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786

 

I wanted to provide a slightly different perspective just as food for thought for people discussing this topic.  We know as fact that only very special people can become part of the spiritual Ahlulbayt.  We also know that those with blood relations can be excommunicated (e.g. Prophet Nooh's son) for unbelief.  

 

So what about those Sayyid's who are believers, but not special (which is the vast majority)?  If you were given the special honour of touching something that was touched my one of the Holy Masoomeen (a.s.) how would your react?  Would you just consider it another piece of cloth, a relic or would you revere it or just respect it?

 

What if a human has X% of the Holy Masoomeen's DNA and blood?  You do not have to revere that person (unless they are truly special), but you can show simple respect and courtesy as you would any other brother/sister regardless of what you personally think of them unless they have openly declared unbelief.  If they have openly declared unbelief, then it will be Allah (s.w.t.) who will judge them and excommunicate them in the after life and it is not our place to pass judgement.

 

Your job is to simply show the level of respect you would any other believing brother/sister without judgement.  

 

Was salaam

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