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In the Name of God بسم الله

Imam Zaman (As) Allows Tatbir?

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Typical illogical standard answer trotted out by malangs. If you stopped and thought about it the answer would present itself. However I figure you already know why your answer to your standard answer so I wonr trouble myself to answer it. Why dont you malangs get together and come up with some more robust answers instead of the garbage you constantly spout

(salam)

Where is the argumentation in your statement what is wrong on may argumentation?

(wasalam)

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(salam) If it was really practiced by Zeinab , then how come the shia women do not practice tatbir ? its only the men that do it.

I dont think we should depend on supposed meetings with the Imam (AJ) to use as proof to support tatbir, or anything else for that matter. That's my opinion because we have enough ahadith to deal with

Most of the people debating with you on this thread (who you have labeled as 'malangs') have been very respectful and have good akhlaq... Just because one person doesn't have good akhlaq doesn't mean

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(salam)

brother is still dont get what you want to say.

Do you want to say that we are not akccepting the truth or something like that ?

(wasalam)

I am saying that all you malangs use the same counter argument. Since it is a standard reply that u are using it implies that you havent really thought through the arguments. If you had thought about it you wouldnt have used it

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I am saying that all you malangs use the same counter argument. Since it is a standard reply that u are using it implies that you havent really thought through the arguments. If you had thought about it you wouldnt have used it

(salam)

Ohh know i understand. But allow me these Questions.

1- Why do you call us Malangs?

2- Do you come with new Arguments?

You take our arguments and claim that its false and dont answer to it with counterarguments no you make claims that we are using the same arguments like we everytime do. Dont understand me wrong but if you dont want to make Tatbir thats your problem, we dont say if you dont do tatbir you go to hell or sth. likr that. But let the people who are strong enaugh and have the love to Hussain to do it , do Tatbir.

(wasalam)

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(salam)

Ohh know i understand. But allow me these Questions.

1- Why do you call us Malangs?

2- Do you come with new Arguments?

You take our arguments and claim that its false and dont answer to it with counterarguments no you make claims that we are using the same arguments like we everytime do. Dont understand me wrong but if you dont want to make Tatbir thats your problem, we dont say if you dont do tatbir you go to hell or sth. likr that. But let the people who are strong enaugh and have the love to Hussain to do it , do Tatbir.

(wasalam)

Q1) As I said before and you have failed to read . I did not create the term malangs and I did not label you as Malangs. It is you yourself that call yourself Malangs. I just repeat what you have said.

Q2) Since the ludicrous point has been hijab has been answered numerous times before. I fail to see why I should even bother answering an argument that in all fairness lacks merit. I asked you to think and reflect on it yourself but I see you do not wish to do So to summarise my counterargument which I will now insist you answer.

To compare a wajib act (hijab) with non-wajib/not mustahab/some argue haram act (tatbir) is not a fair comparison. So now please justify your comparison. Do not go and produce another argument answer this point first !!

Edited by A true Sunni
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(salam)

The comparison between Hijab and Tatbir was because someone argumented that Tatbir is not good because the west think that Islam is crazy. So I answered that the west think that we are oppressing the women whilst let them wear Hijab. So my comparison was to show that its not important what the others think its important what you belive in.

And maybe youre right maybe that isnt a good comparison between tatbir and Hijab.

But than you can compare between Tatbir and Latmiyat (which also isnt wajib) or Ziyarat al Husaain on Arbaeen (which also isnt wajib). Dosent the west think when we make Latmiyat or Visit Hussain and go these way of kilometers on feet that we are crazy.

Should we stop visiting Hussain or should we stop making Latmiyat ?

Thats my answer to the comparsion.

(wasalam)

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(salam)

The comparison between Hijab and Tatbir was because someone argumented that Tatbir is not good because the west think that Islam is crazy. So I answered that the west think that we are oppressing the women whilst let them wear Hijab. So my comparison was to show that its not important what the others think its important what you belive in.

And maybe youre right maybe that isnt a good comparison between tatbir and Hijab.

But than you can compare between Tatbir and Latmiyat (which also isnt wajib) or Ziyarat al Husaain on Arbaeen (which also isnt wajib). Dosent the west think when we make Latmiyat or Visit Hussain and go these way of kilometers on feet that we are crazy.

Should we stop visiting Hussain or should we stop making Latmiyat ?

Thats my answer to the comparsion.

(wasalam)

Point 1 since you like to paraphrase and misquote people. Read the fatwas of the major Marje. They say that blood letting is ruled forbidden because it causes misunderstanding and contempt for Islam. Since it has no historical basis in Islam it is deemed haram . I can see nowhere in it a mention of the west or craziness.

As to what the comment what 'you believe is important' not what people believe. Yes you are right but the moment you call yourself muslim you place certain constraints on yourself.

This may be an indication why Malangs call themselves malangs. It allows to define their own boundaries and beliefs even if it falls outside Islam.

No idea what the rest of what you are wittering on about. There is no consensus from any group except Wahhabi that mourning or pilgrimage is wrong. So as usual malangs misrepresenting the truth

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as c\an be deduced by his name, a true sunni really is the follower of Abu bakr umar and usman,

Amazing well thought out and logically phrased counter arguments. Famous hadith says 'I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate'. Do you think that any of your replies show any affinity with either the city or the gate.

This guy doesn't has any other thing to do except barking against azadari.

Hmm read my reply about city of knowledge and gate. When you make yourself worthy of approaching the gate you might just get admitted to the city

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This act of zanjeer and tatbir will in-sha-Allah stop soon.

I am witnessing people that were pro zanjeer adopting the correct course in forbidding it, once common sense has been applied to the way of thinking.

With risk of the back lash of the shiachat community ^^^

Since this is inevitable now, i might aswell add, aliyun waliullah is also not part of adhan... :D

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Point 1 since you like to paraphrase and misquote people. Read the fatwas of the major Marje. They say that blood letting is ruled forbidden because it causes misunderstanding and contempt for Islam. Since it has no historical basis in Islam it is deemed haram . I can see nowhere in it a mention of the west or craziness.

As to what the comment what 'you believe is important' not what people believe. Yes you are right but the moment you call yourself muslim you place certain constraints on yourself.

This may be an indication why Malangs call themselves malangs. It allows to define their own boundaries and beliefs even if it falls outside Islam.

No idea what the rest of what you are wittering on about. There is no consensus from any group except Wahhabi that mourning or pilgrimage is wrong. So as usual malangs misrepresenting the truth

(salam)

1- The Majority of Maraje3 has not to be right. The argumentation on Majority is a Typical Bakri Argument. That the Majority is right. There are a some Maraja3 who allow it like sayyid Sadek Al Shirazi.

2- To the Basis my first post to this topic i noticed some of them.

3-Can you please define what a malang is to you because i think there is a misunderstanding between us. Im from Germany and i dont really know what you mean by the term Malang

(wasalam)

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so you agree to get rid of tarawih prayers as well as "Assalatu khairun minan nawm" and other innovations too?

You are actually comparing Zanjeer/Tatbir which is relatively a new act, to a 1400 year sunni old act (eventhough not correct) but IS worshipping Allah (swt) rather than unnecessary blood letting?

I am not defending either of them, as its a Bidah, and bidah in religion leads to hell fire.

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You are actually comparing Zanjeer/Tatbir which is relatively a new act, to a 1400 year sunni old act (eventhough not correct) but IS worshipping Allah (swt) rather than unnecessary blood letting?

I am not defending either of them, as its a Bidah, and bidah in religion leads to hell fire.

The difference between this and Sunni Bida is that no Shia scholar says "you must do zanjeer zani" they are just saying it is allowed but they dont call it act of worship where as Sunnis heavily promote taraweeh and have added "Assalatu khairun minan nawm" into the religion. Also praying with arms closed and many other Bidas. So its really different.

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welcome to sunnism. your id should be "yet another true sunni"

According to your logic Ayatullah Khameni and Sistani and many other Marje are Sunni.

(salam)

1- The Majority of Maraje3 has not to be right. The argumentation on Majority is a Typical Bakri Argument. That the Majority is right. There are a some Maraja3 who allow it like sayyid Sadek Al Shirazi.

2- To the Basis my first post to this topic i noticed some of them.

3-Can you please define what a malang is to you because i think there is a misunderstanding between us. Im from Germany and i dont really know what you mean by the term Malang

(wasalam)

As usual malangs misquoting and misrepresenting what I say. I was pointing out that noone on this thread had talked about 'craziness' . you malangs have to many preset answers that you dont even bother reading the thread or the responses. For that matter noone talked about majority. Is lying and misrepresenting people an ingrained response with you malangs.

As to definition of malang go ask your bretheren. But be assured you fit all the parameters

so you agree to get rid of tarawih prayers as well as "Assalatu khairun minan nawm" and other innovations too?

Do you even speak to real educated Sunnis or do you just spout rubbish

The difference between this and Sunni Bida is that no Shia scholar says "you must do zanjeer zani" they are just saying it is allowed but they dont call it act of worship where as Sunnis heavily promote taraweeh and have added "Assalatu khairun minan nawm" into the religion. Also praying with arms closed and many other Bidas. So its really different.

You obviously never spoken to malangs who curse and abuse Marje that try and stop them and settle discussions with fists when they are asked to stop covering the prayer halls in blood

Edited by Naz_
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According to your logic Ayatullah Khameni and Sistani and many other Marje are Sunni. Talk about dumb

Just because you like to call yourself sunni doesnt mean others want to be called as such..

Do you even speak to real educated Sunnis or do you just spout rubbish

Almost every sunni considers tarawih prayers and assalatu khairun nawm part and parcel of their religion.

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Just because you like to call yourself sunni doesnt mean others want to be called as such..

Almost every sunni considers tarawih prayers and assalatu khairun nawm part and parcel of their religion.

Dear oh dear is that the best you can do. It is you that defined Ayatullah Khameni and Sistani as Sunni not me.

I highlighted the relevant bit about Tarawi. You obviously dont mix in educated circles. To busy with the malangs and rabble rousers

Edited by Naz_
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are you trying to justify tarawi and as salatun khairun minannawm ? wow what a sunni.

Can you read. You guys come in on this site with preset ideas. Dont look at what a person writes and then just answer non-question and totally ignore what a person says. What is it with malangs .

Edited by Naz_
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Can you read. You guys come in on this site with preset ideas. Dont look at what a person writes and then just answer non-question and totally ignore what a person says. What is it with malangs . Are you genetically disposed to have an inability to read

i am not a malang and dont do tatbir. BUT then i wouldnt call myself "a true sunni" either.

But the question remains, do you participate in tarawiih prayers or get woken up because of calls that prayer is better than sleep?

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i am not a malang and dont do tatbir. BUT then i wouldnt call myself "a true sunni" either.

But the question remains, do you participate in tarawiih prayers or get woken up because of calls that prayer is better than sleep?

I asked you a question as to whether you can read. Amazing you go on a site . Person appears to be able to write English but can they understand it no hmmm

Edited by A true Sunni
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oh, do you mean by flagellating their blood people want to show tht they are with imam hussain(as)??? In my opinion the best thing such ppl can do is tht they can donate their blood in the name of IMAM HUSSAIN(AS) and trust me i have experienced a lot its a total showoff and nothing else

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oh, do you mean by flagellating their blood people want to show tht they are with imam hussain(as)??? In my opinion the best thing such ppl can do is tht they can donate their blood in the name of IMAM HUSSAIN(AS) and trust me i have experienced a lot its a total showoff and nothing else

Donating blood isn't as painful :)

But I agree with you I have seem a lot of showing off in general during Ashura times

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If this act was so great then I'm sure the best of Husayn's (as) mourners (The Imams [as]) would of done it, but are no authentic narrations which suggest their either encouraged it or performed it themselves.

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If this act was so great then I'm sure the best of Husayn's (as) mourners (The Imams [as]) would of done it, but are no authentic narrations which suggest their either encouraged it or performed it themselves.

There aren't any non-authentic narrations either. That's how baseless this practice is

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you wahaba-salafi shia.

Interesting that, as I said before about the famous Hadith 'I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate' . You malangs will never enter the city because you can never approach the gate.

You disrespect the Ahlul Bait , lie and get violent to defend a 200 year old practice. How can you ever hope to enter the city except as thieves and beggars

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Interesting that, as I said before about the famous Hadith 'I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate' . You malangs will never enter the city because you can never approach the gate.

You disrespect the Ahlul Bait , lie and get violent to defend a 200 year old practice. How can you ever hope to enter the city except as thieves and beggars

I was being sarcastic, you must know my stance on this issue? :wacko:

People use that term a lot here but it's something I dislike - they make it seem as though if you question anything taken to be a standard shia practice/belief today then you're a wahabi, which is a joke. Ironically the same people also expect sunnis to question their beliefs...

Edited by Vigilare
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I was being sarcastic, you must know my stance on this issue? :wacko:

People use that term a lot here but it's something I dislike - they make it seem as though if you question anything taken to be a standard shia practice/belief today then you're a wahabi, which is a joke. Ironically the same people also expect sunnis to question their beliefs...

Apologies. I did think your abuse of me was rather strange and was out of character, but then I figured you might have been involved in an accident and lost your higher brain function. :). My excuse is that it is rather late in the UK and its been a long day

Of course there was the guy on here who according to his definition both Agha Khameni and Sistani were Sunni

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