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Robin Hood

Apostates: Why Did You Leave Islam?

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Well, since a bunch of other non apostates are posting, I suppose it is ok for me to, too.

Beliefs are what they are. They are not knowledge, they are faith based. People are free to believe what they wish, and realistically, believers of all walks of life, and non believers, have justification for their own particular faith(S).

With that, experiences, or a change in a persons environment, may lead them to view their ideas more different than they once had. If they feel as though their new ideas do not conform with the old, then they will change their faith. Or perhaps change their beliefs within the faith will change, but not the faith itself.

If their ideas appear to conflict with the fundamentals of their original faith, then their faith will change.

=============================================

Something everyone should realize.

We arent born with full knowledge of absolute truth. We have to grow and learn and read and eventually we come to understand our own truth. It is not unreasonable to grow and learn some things, but then eventually reach a point where you learn more things, and then come to change faith or change how you interpret faith.

With that, I would say that it is most certainly possible that someone can grow up as a muslim, and convert if their ideas change. Or someone can grow up a non muslim, and their ideas may change, in which case they may convert. Or we can mix and match any religion in that statement.

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Finally, I dont know if there are any apostates on this website. If there were, they would have to be careful not to stir up controversy. End up disappearing like RT. Namean?

Edited by iDevonian

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Man, unlike it, I already reported those posts. I lost my temper. Said some unnecessary stuff.

Our beliefs in Allah, are from the heart.

It isnt a simple topic that, everyone will be 100% always happy about every single day that we live. So, I believe that it is ok. Even the most pious of muslims I am sure have their thoughts and critiques of their own ideas. I dont think any harm was done.

Best of luck. InshaAllah in time we will have our answers.

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They ask why God let person A get hurt by other people, I ask why the heck did HUMANS feel the need to hurt person A? Life is a test and God gave us free will... Are u complaining that we have free will? Since Life is a test we have free will to be able to take the test so that we get judged on things we chose to do... Like if humans didn't have free will and Allah forced them to be bad or good, it wouldn't be fair for Him to judge us.

Also some people do not realize that hardship is suppose to help you get closer to Allah because most people don't turn to Allah on their own, they only turn to Allah when they need him and then turn theirs backs on Him again. And it takes multiple hardships for a person to realize "oh huh, maybe I should show my thanks to Allah when I'm happy also..." like when my grandpa passed away it was very hard for me and still is but I didn't say "oh life is hard so that means Allah gave up on me so therefore I give up on Allah"

No, there is a saying "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger"

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Well, since a bunch of other non apostates are posting, I suppose it is ok for me to, too.

Beliefs are what they are. They are not knowledge, they are faith based. People are free to believe what they wish, and realistically, believers of all walks of life, and non believers, have justification for their own particular faith(S).

With that, experiences, or a change in a persons environment, may lead them to view their ideas more different than they once had. If they feel as though their new ideas do not conform with the old, then they will change their faith. Or perhaps change their beliefs within the faith will change, but not the faith itself.

If their ideas appear to conflict with the fundamentals of their original faith, then their faith will change.

=============================================

Something everyone should realize.

We arent born with full knowledge of absolute truth. We have to grow and learn and read and eventually we come to understand our own truth. It is not unreasonable to grow and learn some things, but then eventually reach a point where you learn more things, and then come to change faith or change how you interpret faith.

With that, I would say that it is most certainly possible that someone can grow up as a muslim, and convert if their ideas change. Or someone can grow up a non muslim, and their ideas may change, in which case they may convert. Or we can mix and match any religion in that statement.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, I dont know if there are any apostates on this website. If there were, they would have to be careful not to stir up controversy. End up disappearing like RT. Namean?

I do miss RT. He was rational and he was a thinker. :)

Edited by CLynn

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(salam)

I have a some in my family and from what I understand, they went to prestigious universities as Muslims, and came out as agnostics/atheists. And in another case, I honestly believe it might be because he never bothered to get married. Of course the issues are more complex than that but those are my observations. :(

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They never were Muslim in the first place.

I refuse to believe that someone can get to know The Prophet, Imam Ali, Hazrat Zahra and their mahabba to then leave Islam.

It will be impossible to convince me of that.

Basically i don't even agree with your "question".

I agree but this begs the statement;

Then maybe they didn't truly know them (alayhum alsalaam)

I was born and "raised" a muslimah (I put raised in quotation marks because i didn't know much at all about islam until I started my own research)

I can't honestly say I know who Ahlul Bayt (as) were very well. I may know the major things but I still have a long way to go.

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Some people used to be non-Muslims and chose Islam, and some others did the opposite. I would be curious to know why some people chose to leave this religion. Thanks!

because it makes no sense , 80% of the religion is based on hadeeths compiled and graded by scholars who have no divine authority at all, and rest 20% is quran which is very ambiguous and cannot be understood without those hadeeths.

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Speaking of which, can anyone here actually prove that Islam is the true religion, and Prophet Muhammad is the true messenger, and that Quran is the true revelation, and all of the Imams are rightly guided spiritual teachers?

I mean, no offense. I'm pretty much agree with every argument Quran, Prophet Muhammad, Ali ibn Abu Ta'alib and Zain-ul-Abideen [specially, both of them are my heroes] and the rest of the Imams says, but that itself isn't sufficient to qualify as divine, or The Truth.

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iDevonian I thought you are atheist....what happened? Or do I have you mixed up with another person?

Our beliefs in Allah, are from the heart.

It isnt a simple topic that, everyone will be 100% always happy about every single day that we live. So, I believe that it is ok. Even the most pious of muslims I am sure have their thoughts and critiques of their own ideas. I dont think any harm was done.

Best of luck. InshaAllah in time we will have our answers.

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First off just because something doesnt make sense to you doesnt mean its wrong. In my physics class, many topics dont make sense, does it prove physics wrong? Of course not. Also 100% of the religion is based on the quran, and with the quran is prophethood and imamate. Then comes sunnah. Scholars dont make grading on their own. I think you should read and learn the process. Scholars search about the narrators in which they conclude if the chain is good or not. Whether the scholar must be appointed divinely doesnt affect the grading of the hadith or the hadith itself. The matter is if the hadith source comes from the chosen beings or not and does the quran agree with it.

i was being kind becuz of the nature o this board when i said it made no sense. what i meant was i saw things in it that were flat out wrong no matter how u looked at iut.

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i was being kind becuz of the nature o this board when i said it made no sense. what i meant was i saw things in it that were flat out wrong no matter how u looked at iut.

could you make a thread about these things?

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He converted to Islam.

When did this happen?

i was being kind becuz of the nature o this board when i said it made no sense. what i meant was i saw things in it that were flat out wrong no matter how u looked at iut.

Don't try to discuss or understand slavery by discussing with SC members...you will go in circles and come to hate all humans.

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Have you made a post explaining your change of heart? If so please direct me to it.....and if not please share if you don't mind.

I actually have been a believer for, quite a long time. It wasnt too much of a change. I do not have a post about any change.

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I actually have been a believer for, quite a long time. It wasnt too much of a change. I do not have a post about any change.

I apologize....

Perhaps I have you confused with iSilurian? I confuse members at times, especially the ones who frequent different areas of the forum than me.

Edited by ImAli

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I know many apostates (secret and some non-secret) in real life. Shocking, I know. :huh:

The major reason they are citing for disbelieving in Islam is Islam's inadequacy for truly reforming human being. And secondly, they feels that Islam is not very compatible with modern science (especially the theory of evolution).

I actually have been a believer for, quite a long time. It wasnt too much of a change. I do not have a post about any change.

Alhamdullillah. Now life gets really interesting for you, I bet. :)

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Welcome to the faith IDevonian. Didn't really expect you to become a Muslim though. You seemed like someone who has everything figured out. You had answers for almost everything.

But I'm glad that you are taking a chance of having something out there as opposed to there being nothing at all in the universe.

Islam is definitely interesting. You are going to busy for a long time exploring and researching.

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Some people take a more intellectual, and less emotional approach to religion. Not to mention that you can only get to know these holy personalities through ahadith, which for example you may become convinced aren't genuine, and were made up later. If you think about it, this love that many people have from the Ahlulbayt (as) is something inculcated into them from childhood, where they are told many stories (of various authenticity) in very emotional tones. This also happens to older reverts. Obviously this will lead them to having a strong attachement to the Ahlulbayt (as), but the same thing could be done with children from other religions. In other contexts it might be called brainwashing, and it doesn't mean much in terms of determining the truth of Islam.

While I agree with you on taking a more intellectual approach to religion, I think it's also very important to be cognizant of the fact that none of us make purely rational choices. What we 'think' is rational, is not always so. Rationality is always embedded within some kind of social context. And while I believe that being skepticial about religious dogma is critical to one's own development, I reject this narrow-minded, unrealistic, post-Enlightenment conception of reason. Of course, society does play a pivotal role in shaping the beliefs of an individual. However, the reason why people are attracted to the Ahl al-Bayt [as] is not because they have been told so. Nor can one develop a love for them as a result of reading volumes of ahadith. Rather, the love for perfection is something present deep inside our own consciousness. In many ways, we make the Ahl al-Bayt [as] conform to our own conceptions of what they ought to be. For the reading of any text, presumes a certain worldview. Now, based on our unique set of circumstances we may manifest this 'love' in different ways. Other religious traditions may view their own personalities in a manner similar to how we view the Ahl al-Bayt [as]. Does this mean that all of these various truth claims are correct? No, not neccessarily. At the end of the day, we all feel that our own beliefs are correct and absolutely true. And practically, that's all that matters, as Allah [swt] will hold us accountable for our own beliefs and actions, not that of others. Even those staunch skeptics of religion that pride themselves on their use of reason, untainted by superstitious dogma, themselves, cannot escape the delusions they so much hate. Like the rest of us, they are just as emotional about their own beliefs, scorning at the first thought of being wrong.

(wasalam)

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First off just because something doesnt make sense to you doesnt mean its wrong.

this can be also true for new muslims islam makes sense for them it does not mean it is right.

Of course not. Also 100% of the religion is based on the quran, and with the quran is prophethood and imamate.

if quran is 100% religion give me one clear ayat about mehdi and your 12 imams without supporting it from any hadiths.

Then comes sunnah. Scholars dont make grading on their own.

why need grading? some books were written during the times of your imams e.g kitab al kafi ,why they did not testify the books of your scholars?

I think you should read and learn the process. Scholars search about the narrators in which they conclude if the chain is good or not.

you had got 12 imams after muhammad yet you have to depend upon fallible scholars for grading of hadiths like sunnis.

Whether the scholar must be appointed divinely doesnt affect the grading of the hadith or the hadith itself.

but in some cases one hadith is acceptable for one scholar and unacceptable for other.it makes your religion confused like sunnis.

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this can be also true for new muslims islam makes sense for them it does not mean it is right.

if quran is 100% religion give me one clear ayat about mehdi and your 12 imams without supporting it from any hadiths.

why need grading? some books were written during the times of your imams e.g kitab al kafi ,why they did not testify the books of your scholars?

you had got 12 imams after muhammad yet you have to depend upon fallible scholars for grading of hadiths like sunnis.

but in some cases one hadith is acceptable for one scholar and unacceptable for other.it makes your religion confused like sunnis.

Very simple, once you understand the logic of why wouldnt a just and merciful God not have a guide on this earth to help the imperfect being strive towards the obedience of God ,you will see the absolute requirement of a divine being who will bring peace and justice on this corrupt world.

"And We assigned them Imams who guide by our authority and We have inspired in them the doing of good deeds." (Quran 21:73)

"And We appointed from among them some Imams who guide by our authority since they were patient and believed firmly in Our Signs." (Quran 32:24)

"O' you who believe! Obey Allah, and Obey Apostle and those from among you who are given authority (by Allah)." (Quran 4:59)

"(O' Muhammad!) You are but a Warner, and for every community there exists a Guide." (Quran 13:7)

"It is not for Allah to punish them while you are among them."(Quran 8:33) -Why do you think with all this gay stuff and injustice Allah hasnt sent down destruction upon us like other communities?

For the argument, how can he guide us if he cant see us, how does Allah help us if we cant see Him?

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Don't try to discuss or understand slavery by discussing with SC members...you will go in circles and come to hate all humans.

The major reason they are citing for disbelieving in Islam is Islam's inadequacy for truly reforming human being.

And secondly, they feels that Islam is not very compatible with modern science (especially the theory of evolution).

Actually, I'd like to give my thoughts on slavery some-day. I know there are plenty of topics out there discussing the issues, but a fresh topic, although sounds like a receipt for disaster, would be erm ... better.

The reasons Gypsy pointed out [that some apostates have made], well, are pretty weak.

As far as Islam's inconsistency with modern science goes, even if I accept that, how does that prove that Islam is false? Who's to say science isn't at fault? Science is a self-correcting field, it has a history of making mistakes and correcting itself. And even if Islam is inconsistent with modern science such as the likes of the theory of evolution, well, Newton's gravitation theory is inconsistent too. It is inconsistent with relativity theory and quantum mechanics. But it's being still used.

And as for Islam not being adequate for reforming human beings, how do they know that? And, that doesn't even makes sense to me, personally. I mean, although this is a personal example, but Quran really did reformed me. And there are plenty of individuals who have achieved inner and outer peace by it.

Edited by The Exalted One

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lol yes, I dont know if I could even describe it. I love it, though it is, absolutely ah, something very different than I had ever expected.

iSilurian :!!!: i was sad when you left. It did occur to me iDevonian was you because of the name similarity. I always thought iSilurian was a born Muslim who was questioning and perhaps moving away from Islam and that iDevonian was not a born Muslim who was moving towards Islam. Anyhow, mashAllah and good to see you back...even though you didnt leave.

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