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In the Name of God بسم الله
sayedamir2000

Working In Bank

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(bismillah)

(salam) brothers and sisters

I applied for software development job to a bank (Western bank). This was good position for me, since I'm qualified to it and it gave me good opportunity to start my career. I have decided that my careerpath will be in software development. However now I'm afraid that if I get a job in such bank and it involves me to work even a little bit with interest, wouldn't that be haram? I'm following Grand Ayatollah Sistani, but unfortunately if I send them a message it will takes 1-2 months to get reply and in that time it would be too late to get the answer.

So I need help to find it that would it be haram to work in such bank if it involves me to work with interest in any manner? I'm ready to not take this job opportunity if it is offered for me if working in such bank because on interest would be haram.

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Facepalm. I can't believe this misconception still exists. Unbelievable.

The Qur'an condemns "usury." The type of interest used in banking is NOT usury. Usury is an extortionate and exploitative interest excessive to the situation. Lending money to screened borrowers is completely different. Banks need to charge over the certain amount lent because it is necessary to cover overheads and for the cost of the time value of money. Interest is necessary for a working financial model. So called "Islamic finance" is structurally equivalent to the western system of finance, just under a different name. In fact, western interest is better and socially productive.

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Working for a bank is haram fullstop - unless you are the cleaner or equivalent working there. If you want a quick response from seestanis office, you can call the number on najaf.org. They will answer you there and then, or you can drop them an email which they respond to in a few days inshallah.

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waAlaikum Salam,

In the United States the banking system is based on pure usury/reba ! That was the cause of the whole real estate bubble melt down. The fiat currency in itself is haram. Banks used pure predatory lending tactics to cause artificial inflation on these properties. They gave people finance loans they knew full well the people could barely afford from the start, and 2 to 4 years later due to these loans having adjustable rates 2%- 6% increases in some cases on $150k-$300k loans, made the payments mathematically impossible to pay. Historically, this has been the trend.

The choice is your own akhi, but the system you be employed by would definitely be an institution of usury/reba. I honestly don't know for certain if the position which you would be working is in the confine of our prohibitions, but my guess would be it is. With a trade such as software design I'm sure you'll have no problem finding work. May Allah (SWT) guide you akhi.

Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib (as) said: Abstain from the world so that Allah may show you its real evils, and do not be neglectful because (in any case) you will not be neglected.

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(salam) brothers and sisters

Thank you for your help. I have decided to pass this job opportunity if they offer me that. I don't want to be invovled in any aspect with interest or usury. I can find better jobs and I believe only in Allah that He (SWT) will grant me a job someday.

PS. For inferno, brother please don't behave in such manner. I thank you for your response, but be polite when you answer to people.

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Fiat currency is NOT haram the scholars have already ruled on it, if its backed by a government its halal, I see a lot of people posting about the "western" system being nothing but pure riba and the real estate crisis was not caused by "riba" it was caused by ignorant people not reading contracts and spending way beyond their means. Riba is exploitative if you read into hadiths and other literature on the subject the closest thing tied to riba in the US would be title loans or payday loans and other private loan sources similar in operation. There is no such thing as "Islamic Banking" they charge riba they just call it a service fee. Banks are a business and the only way for a bank to stay in business and pay its employees would be to lend out money above and beyond the principal. Banks work like this you borrow such and such amount of money they have to get that money back and earn money for operating costs so they charge you a percentage rate based on your credit score and length of history of creditworthiness you then pay them back such and such amount over time this money pays back the principal so they get their money back and they get the interest rate to fund operating costs pay employees and also to bring in revenue to generate new loans. During certain times they can borrow from the Fed at 1 to 2% then charge you 3.49 to 6% and even more depending on your credit history. Islamic Banking has the same principal but they mask it as a service fee and call it a "partnership" its bogus, besides if you're working in the IT section to do some software development I don't see how you would be working with usury you're working in a different division of the bank. As long as you yourself are NOT dealing in haram then its ok but people misconstrue riba because most scholars who rule on this matter are not financial experts.

but I do agree with an earlier post that talks of variable rate interest loans those would be usury as they don't have a fixed fair rate and violate Islamic Business fiqh

There was a study done on so called Islamic Financial Institutions in the UK and they found that they charge 1 to 2% higher than a Secular institution

The general definition of riba is getting money for nothing and banks are not getting money for nothing they are getting money to provide you a service its that simple

I'd hate to see this brother pass up a job on the opinions of an internet forum seeing as the economy is a joke even for software developers

Another modern example of riba would be the concept of microfinancing, while it sounds like a good idea the only way a microfinancing institution can cover its operating costs is by charging high interest rates, this in itself is exploitative to the poorest people in the world

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(bismillah)

(salam) brothers and sisters

I applied for software development job to a bank (Western bank). This was good position for me, since I'm qualified to it and it gave me good opportunity to start my career. I have decided that my careerpath will be in software development. However now I'm afraid that if I get a job in such bank and it involves me to work even a little bit with interest, wouldn't that be haram? I'm following Grand Ayatollah Sistani, but unfortunately if I send them a message it will takes 1-2 months to get reply and in that time it would be too late to get the answer.

So I need help to find it that would it be haram to work in such bank if it involves me to work with interest in any manner? I'm ready to not take this job opportunity if it is offered for me if working in such bank because on interest would be haram.

(wasalam)

Yes if you send your question via Sistani.org, then it will take a long period of time. If you, however, send your question via www.najaf.org then they answer within 1 or max 2 days. Or else, you can give them a call, phone number is on the same site of najaf.org

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Are you not able to find any other jobs? there was a guy here who said ... and dragged me into an argument that ... there are plenty of jobs in vanicilla c/c++ programming. What languages do you know, what are some of the programming projects that you have done? mabye if you communicate clearly people might be able to help you ... unlike that guy who did not give me a single example of a job and salary and his post was not even ZILCH benefit but a NEGATIVE and waste of time.

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(bismillah)

(salam) brothers and sisters

I applied for software development job to a bank (Western bank). This was good position for me, since I'm qualified to it and it gave me good opportunity to start my career. I have decided that my careerpath will be in software development. However now I'm afraid that if I get a job in such bank and it involves me to work even a little bit with interest, wouldn't that be haram? I'm following Grand Ayatollah Sistani, but unfortunately if I send them a message it will takes 1-2 months to get reply and in that time it would be too late to get the answer.

So I need help to find it that would it be haram to work in such bank if it involves me to work with interest in any manner? I'm ready to not take this job opportunity if it is offered for me if working in such bank because on interest would be haram.

I have been toying with the idea of writing some software and might be needing a few partners.

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Fiat currency is NOT haram the scholars have already ruled on it, if its backed by a government its halal, I see a lot of people posting about the "western" system being nothing but pure riba and the real estate crisis was not caused by "riba" it was caused by ignorant people not reading contracts and spending way beyond their means. Riba is exploitative if you read into hadiths and other literature on the subject the closest thing tied to riba in the US would be title loans or payday loans and other private loan sources similar in operation. There is no such thing as "Islamic Banking" they charge riba they just call it a service fee. Banks are a business and the only way for a bank to stay in business and pay its employees would be to lend out money above and beyond the principal. Banks work like this you borrow such and such amount of money they have to get that money back and earn money for operating costs so they charge you a percentage rate based on your credit score and length of history of creditworthiness you then pay them back such and such amount over time this money pays back the principal so they get their money back and they get the interest rate to fund operating costs pay employees and also to bring in revenue to generate new loans. During certain times they can borrow from the Fed at 1 to 2% then charge you 3.49 to 6% and even more depending on your credit history. Islamic Banking has the same principal but they mask it as a service fee and call it a "partnership" its bogus, besides if you're working in the IT section to do some software development I don't see how you would be working with usury you're working in a different division of the bank. As long as you yourself are NOT dealing in haram then its ok but people misconstrue riba because most scholars who rule on this matter are not financial experts.

but I do agree with an earlier post that talks of variable rate interest loans those would be usury as they don't have a fixed fair rate and violate Islamic Business fiqh

There was a study done on so called Islamic Financial Institutions in the UK and they found that they charge 1 to 2% higher than a Secular institution

The general definition of riba is getting money for nothing and banks are not getting money for nothing they are getting money to provide you a service its that simple

I'd hate to see this brother pass up a job on the opinions of an internet forum seeing as the economy is a joke even for software developers

Another modern example of riba would be the concept of microfinancing, while it sounds like a good idea the only way a microfinancing institution can cover its operating costs is by charging high interest rates, this in itself is exploitative to the poorest people in the world

Thank you! O.P, this guy knows what he's talking about. Lend an ear. If you drop this opportunity because of your own ignorance, it's your loss. It's quite pathetic, actually.

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^ wots this guys qualification and face and age and linkedin

as compared to

Shaikh Imran Hosein

and

how many mosques

universities

and

countries have invited this guy

to

give

lectures.

The words above R weighty. so i thought to distribute the weight.

As this guy

to

make

a

few

sermon

videos.

.

.

V R all drowning in RIBBA.

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(salam) brothers and sisters

Let me be more precise on this job thing, because now there are so many different opinions on this issue. This is corporation offered job. The corporation is not limited to offering banking service only. It offers banking, insurance, finance and mortgage services. I would obviously working in IT-section. Reason why I said working in bank is because that is the main service that this corporation is offering. When I was in interview, they told me that the first project is to set, develop and integrate banking system. This is so big project that it takes about years to complete. My real concern was that if I would help them in such manner that it involves me to develop or add interest feature to the system and people (clients) would be using it, wouldn't that be haram and wouldn't I be countable for every practise that was made that generated to this corporation interest profit. This was the thing what I wanted to know. To be more precise when I used word 'help' I meant with it my tasks that were given.

I'm very sorry if I misconfused you.

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^ wots this guys qualification and face and age and linkedin

as compared to

Shaikh Imran Hosein

and

how many mosques

universities

and

countries have invited this guy

to

give

lectures.

The words above R weighty. so i thought to distribute the weight.

As this guy

to

make

a

few

sermon

videos.

.

.

V R all drowning in RIBBA.

Does this Sheikh have a background in Business/Economics/Accounting or Finance? You do realize that just because hes an Islamic scholar doesn't make him a scholar of business practices. I think everyone pretty well knows that contemporary scholars don't have their own opinions for the most part they all rely on previous verdicts so your questioning my qualifications is irrelevant. Sheikh so and so can have his opinion but at the end of the day hes a human whos prone to errors like the rest of us so just because hes a sheikh doesn't mean hes correct since the majority of scholars will tell you riba isn't clearly defined anyways. I have yet to read one universal definition besides "getting money for nothing" which is erroneous in the banking industry since they are indeed doing something by providing you financial services.

Fact is I provided explanation and most everyone else provided their personal opinions or the opinions of whatever scholar they choose to follow I'd say that makes me more qualified than anyone whos commented so far

If people are going to make statements about what is and what isn't Riba then find a clear definition and we can go from there because "interest" is vague and indeterminate

Anyways to the brother who posted this I hope you make a good decision and find a good paying job, if you feel that this job will lead you to haram then leave it but don't base your decision on people on a forum use your aql

Doing a quick search on the sheikh you mentioned I have to say very impressive Islamic Scholar resume but no Business/Economics background so ill stick to him if I want to discuss other aspects of fiqh or general Islamic studies :)

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(salam) brothers and sisters

I sent a message yesterday to najaf.org and explained my situation. They told me that I would be allowed to work in such place. I think the reason is because I'm not taking care of interest related things or something like that. My intention is only to make living and not doing haram.

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(salam) brothers and sisters

I sent a message yesterday to najaf.org and explained my situation. They told me that I would be allowed to work in such place. I think the reason is because I'm not taking care of interest related things or something like that. My intention is only to make living and not doing haram.

Did they give you a reason as to how and why it is "haram?" No. I don't know what's wrong with you, frankly. I and another member have explained why interest in banking is not haram, and you've completely ignored it. I'm finished with you.

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Facepalm. I can't believe this misconception still exists. Unbelievable.

The Qur'an condemns "usury." The type of interest used in banking is NOT usury. Usury is an extortionate and exploitative interest excessive to the situation. Lending money to screened borrowers is completely different. Banks need to charge over the certain amount lent because it is necessary to cover overheads and for the cost of the time value of money. Interest is necessary for a working financial model. So called "Islamic finance" is structurally equivalent to the western system of finance, just under a different name. In fact, western interest is better and socially productive.

What about the opinion that both are wrong? If muslims copy the west in their wrongs, of course it will still be wrong.

Have you ever read any of the works of Baqr as-Sadr (ra) regarding economics and banking? His work in this area is phenomenal, it can clear up many misconceptions...

Edited by rajul

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What about the opinion that both are wrong? If muslims copy the west in their wrongs, of course it will still be wrong.

What? How is it wrong? Just because the west practices something doesn't automatically mean it is wrong.

Have you ever read any of the works of Baqr as-Sadr (ra) regarding economics and banking? His work in this area is phenomenal, it can clear up many misconceptions...

Yes. Far as I can tell, his work lacks the intricate details. If you think he provides an alternative to fractional-reserve banking, please show me and shut me up.

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