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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Ali94

Isn't This Too Much?

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Sigh. What to do? Just oppose it with your tongue. I remember going to the same sort of event in London when I was a kid, too. I didn't understand the point of it, and still don't at this intellectually ripened age. An unfortunate widespread Shia mentality and culture, particularly with the Indo-Pak group. They take symbolism to the peripheries of idol worship. The passion is devoid of intellect.

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(salam)

First of all , i believe that this topic should be moved to General discussion . It has more to do with your community :P

Secondly, I've seen Ashura processions from all over the world ,and yes I too think that bringing a horse is a bit too much. At first, I thought that the horse was there because it represented a Hindu Ceremony , but then i looked closer to read 'Ya Hussain' on a flag.

People think that by bringing a horse, they are representing Ashura in a better way, but they are forgetting that a horse was just another mode of transportation, and that if we are really worried about the horse getting killed , then we should as well worry about Animal Abuse that is happening in the world ..

Speak to the leader of your community. Inshallah he will help

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The horse is very important part of the masaaib. When Imam Hussain (A.S.) was leaving for the battlefield, Bibi Sakina (A.S.) was pleading to the horse not to take her father to battlefield. The horse couldn't move, Imam Hussain (A.S.) said to the horse, "I know you are tired, this is the last trip", the horse started crying and pointed towards its feet. I have also heard that at one point when Imam Hussain (A.S.) was on the ground, the horse started circling around Him to protect Him (A.S.) from the arrows. The horse was wounded with many arrows, that's why we respect the horse and we call it Zuljenah.

Edited by Mokhtar2012

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Salaam,

I know everything about Imam Hussain's(AS) horse and I don't mean to disrespect that. But why bring a horse in between a procession or a masjid/hussainiya? There is a place for culture in Islam, but there should be a limit to this. And me speaking to the leader of the community is of no use. They would just say "It is good to do this. You don't know anything" or stuff like that. The community actually loves this, for some reason. And people crowd around the horse and cry over it. When I was really small I remember that the horse was in front of me and suddenly got crazy seeing people like this around it and all the loud nouha going on. It was almost going to run and dash me but somehow they controlled it. Even this did not stop the people to crowd around it.

I don't know, bro. I try my best to stay away from gheebat. But when there is something that needs to be reformed, then we should speak out. I have always told about this, but sadly this has been so strongly connected to azadari.

Another thing that I don't like is people hitting themselves with blades. I know this is completely allowed in Islam. They have their right to do that. But we should also take care of our image as muslims. On Ashura, the media shows all the bloodiest faces thay could find and display to the public saying "See, this is Islam." I'm not saying we should only do things that is approved by people around the world and try to please them or whatever. Just try not to give our beautiful religion a bad name.

Khz.

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This issue has been discussed on shiachat so many times in REALLY long threads. Life is very hard in some cultures, who knows may be people who cut themselves with blades, that's the only way for them to save themselves from committing suicide. Or they were saved by Imam Hussain (A.S.) and this is their way of showing gratitude, I don't know I am just speculating. InshahAllah some day you will get maarifat of Imam Hussain (A.S.), then you will love every part of azadari.

Edited by Mokhtar2012

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WalaikumSalaam Bro,

Yes, you're right. I agree with that. Culture HAS a place in Islam but when a practice is not benefiting the community and instead causing Islam to have a bad name then it must be stopped. It is our resonsibility to to take care of the image of our religion. Sadly, not many in our community care about it and go on with such practices.

Khz

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The horse is very important part of the masaaib. When Imam Hussain (A.S.) was leaving for the battlefield, Bibi Sakina (A.S.) was pleading to the horse not to take her father to battlefield. The horse couldn't move, Imam Hussain (A.S.) said to the horse, "I know you are tired, this is the last trip", the horse started crying and pointed towards its feet. I have also heard that at one point when Imam Hussain (A.S.) was on the ground, the horse started circling around Him to protect Him (A.S.) from the arrows. The horse was wounded with many arrows, that's why we respect the horse and we call it Zuljenah.

:cry: :cry: :cry:

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(salam)

First of all , i believe that this topic should be moved to General discussion . It has more to do with your community :P

Secondly, I've seen Ashura processions from all over the world ,and yes I too think that bringing a horse is a bit too much. At first, I thought that the horse was there because it represented a Hindu Ceremony , but then i looked closer to read 'Ya Hussain' on a flag.

People think that by bringing a horse, they are representing Ashura in a better way, but they are forgetting that a horse was just another mode of transportation, and that if we are really worried about the horse getting killed , then we should as well worry about Animal Abuse that is happening in the world ..

Speak to the leader of your community. Inshallah he will help

Are you talking about the aashura in india? If yes then which city?

OP We have taboot mashkiza alam cradle why you didn't mentioned that as well?

Edited by Hot hot

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Are you talking about the aashura in india? If yes then which city?

OP We have taboot mashkiza alam cradle why you didn't mentioned that as well?

Salaam Hot hot,

I know about the taboot and cradle of the son of Imam Hussain(AS). That seems fine to me. The bringing of a horse and zanjeeri is what I'm talking about. Mostly the zanjeeri I think that must be avoided don't you think?

Khz

Also because the alam was carried by the Imam and Hazrat Abbas (as) so its like a banner. That seems fine.

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Salaam Hot hot,

I know about the taboot and cradle of the son of Imam Hussain(AS). That seems fine to me. The bringing of a horse and zanjeeri is what I'm talking about. Mostly the zanjeeri I think that must be avoided don't you think?

Khz

Also because the alam was carried by the Imam and Hazrat Abbas (as) so its like a banner. That seems fine.

Wasalam

Its a long arguement its fine as far as it doesn't involve and personal attack.

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I wish they told us a bit more how Imam Hossein (as) lived (inspired by Last Sumarai)

But seriously, I am all for sincere lamenting but we need to learn life lessons from Imam Hossein (as) and his holy martydom.

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I sincerely believe that we need guidelines from our religious authorities on how to proceed with the running of masjids, and hussainias in the west otherwise it will all be in the hands of people who may not even have enough knowledge or qualities to enhance the community and allow them to grow and prosper.

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Wasalam

Its a long arguement its fine as far as it doesn't involve and personal attack.

Was gonna say the same thing, i came across some stereotypes here judging the south asians.

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There is nothing wrong with this. It is there to remind you of Ashura, just as the flags and replica coffins are.

It's pretty pathetic to call people who do this jahils.

The only bad thing is the few people who think it's fine to do sajdah to it. That is obviously completely wrong.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

There is nothing wrong with this. It is there to remind you of Ashura, just as the flags and replica coffins are.

It's pretty pathetic to call people who do this jahils.

The only bad thing is the few people who think it's fine to do sajdah to it. That is obviously completely wrong.

Yeah.

I think we have a problem within our communities of extremism, but not just within these quarters which will do things like prostrating to the Shabih of Zuljana but also within those groups who oppose them. Rather than just condemning the wrong things only, they label the whole group and almost anything they preach as ignorant, which stops us from ever having a balance. There is no problem, as far as I know of Islamic rules, in having a horse to represent Zuljanah but people, when they see it beings prostrated to or other extreme stuff, they also start criticising the stuff which is allowed.

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On 3/12/2013 at 0:39 PM, Ali94 said:

Salaamun'Alaikum brothers and sisters,

Since I was a kid I have witnessed that on the day of Ashura, a horse is brought depicted as Zuljana, Imam Hussain's (as) horse. It always irritated me. People would rush around the horse to touch it and cry on it. To me this seems to be too much. We should draw a line when it comes to these things. What do you think?

I also heard of an incident that happened in London. They rented a horse for some 1000-3000 pounds and brought it to a procession on Ashura comprising of 1000 or more people. There the horse got crazy after seeing the public and started acting really wild. The caretaker who got the horse said he would fix the problem and made the horse drink some brandy! The horse then became calm after drinking it. The story did not end there, the horse threw up later during the procession due to drinking it.

Only the South Asian community likes doing this stuff. Personally, I don't have any interest in this. This must be stopped since someone can get hurt real bad later.

The same goes with hitting ourselves with blades.

Khz.

Are you aware that a small extreme minority also do Sujood to the horse with the 'intention' of doing Sujood as a means of 'thanks to Allah'?

This is how deviated some have become.

And yes, it seems to be that the south-asian [indo-pak] community have minorities engaged in extreme acts.

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