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Black Flags From East (Khorasan): Are They Taliba?

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Taliban+Flag.jpg A big big very big Propaganda is made today to prove that Khorasan means Afghanistan, and Taliban is mentioned as bearer of those Black Flags.

This is total false. Let us destroy this propaganda with Allah's help. Insha-Allah.

Firstly, this Black Flag was the sign of SHIA community for the last 1400 years and still it is till today.

Secondly, the main Khorasan is present in Iran today, and it's center is Mashhad. This is the same Mashhad which is the center of Religious Activities in Iran and almost all religious leadership is coming from this city.

Thirdly, Khurasan-e-Buzurg (Greater Khurasan), which existed during the Era of Prophet Muhammad (saw), it also did not contained the areas of Afghanistan where Pushto is spoken (where Taliban has got their support). No, but it also contained only those Areas of Afghanistan where Farsi (Persian) is spoken and these areas are deadly against Taliban.

  1. The Pushto speaking area, where Taliban have support, that area was known as "Sindh" and areas of Ghazni and Qandhar etc. were included in it.
  2. The eastern area from Sindh was known as Hindustan.
  3. While the western area from Sindh was known as Khurasan, and it's boundaries were Merv, Balkh and Hirat (i.e. non-Pushto speaking areas).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:An...ighlighted.jpg

Ancient_Khorasan_highlighted.jpg

Description

Map showing Ancient Persia in light yellowish and the the land called Sind (most of today's Afghanistan and part of Pakistan) in pinkish.A number of ancient references are made to the names shown in this map. Ibn Batutta writes in 1333 AD: [1]

"We travelled from there to Naysabur, one of the four capitals of Khurasan.... We travelled thence to Parwan, where I met the amir Buruntayh. He treated me well and wrote to his representatives at Ghazna enjoining them to show me honour. We went on to the village of Charkh [Charikar], it being now summer, and from there to the town of Ghazna. This is the town of the famous warrior-sultan Mahmud ibn Sabuktagin, one of the greatest of rulers, who made frequent raids into India and captured cities and fortresses there. His grave is in this city and is surmounted by a hospice. The greater part of the town is in ruins and nothing but a fraction of it remains, though it was once a large city. It has an exceedingly cold climate, and the inhabitants move from it in the cold season to Qandahar, a large and prosperous town three nights journey from Ghazna, but I did not visit it. We travelled on to Kabul, formerly a vast town, the site of which is now occupied by a village inhabited by a tribe of Persians called Afghans. They hold mountains and defiles and possess considerable strength, and are mostly highwaymen. Their principle mountain is called Kuh Sulayman... From Kabul we rode to Karmash, which is a fortress belonging to the Afghans... On reaching Sind I followed this practice and bought horses, camels, white slaves and other goods from the merchants. I had already bought from an Iraqi merchant in Ghazna about thirty horses and a camel with a load of arrows, for this is one of the things presented to the sultan. This merchant went off to Khurasan and on returning to India received his money from me. After crossing the river of Sind called Panj Ab, our way led through a forrest of reeds, in which I saw a rhinoceros for the first time. After two days' march we reached Janani, a large and fine town on the bank of the river Sind. Its people are a people called the Samira, whose ancestors established themselves there on the conquest of Sind in the time of al-Hajjaj [712 A.D.]"

Although I do not want to favor any nationality, but the authentic Sunni collections contain many traditions which is in favor of the Persians. I just quote some of them here:

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith:

6.420

Narrated Abu Huraira:

While we were sitting with the Prophet Surat al-Jumu'a was revealed to him, and when the Verse, "And He (Allah) has sent him (Muhammad) also to other (Muslims).....' (62:3) was recited by the Prophet, I said, "Who are they, O Allah's Apostle?" The Prophet did not reply till I repeated my question thrice. At that time, Salman al-Farisi was with us. So Allah's Apostle put his hand on Salman, saying, "Even if Faith were at (the place of) Ath-Thuraiya (pleiades, the highest star), then some men or man from these people (i.e. Salman's folk) would attain it."

The next tradition right after the previous one:

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith:

6.421

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said "Then some men from these people would attain it."

Do you still have Doubts about who are these People of Black Flags?

If you still have doubts about identity of these people, then just read the following "Sahih" tradition of Rasool Allah (saw), and all doubts will be removed. Insha-Allah.

Sunnan Ibn Majah (Sunni Book Online Link) (A Sahih Hadith, see Authentication here and here):

- حَدَّثَنَا عُثْمَانُ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا مُعَاوِيَةُ بْنُ هِشَامٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ صَالِحٍ، عَنْ يَزِيدَ بْنِ أَبِي زِيَادٍ، عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، عَنْ عَلْقَمَةَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، قَالَ بَيْنَمَا نَحْنُ عِنْدَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ إِذْ أَقْبَلَ فِتْيَةٌ مِنْ بَنِي هَاشِمٍ فَلَمَّا رَآهُمُ النَّبِيُّ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ اغْرَوْرَقَتْ عَيْنَاهُ وَتَغَيَّرَ لَوْنُهُ قَالَ فَقُلْتُ مَا نَزَالُ نَرَى فِي وَجْهِكَ شَيْئًا نَكْرَهُهُ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ إِنَّا أَهْلُ بَيْتٍ اخْتَارَ اللَّهُ لَنَا الآخِرَةَ عَلَى الدُّنْيَا وَإِنَّ أَهْلَ بَيْتِي سَيَلْقَوْنَ بَعْدِي بَلاَءً وَتَشْرِيدًا وَتَطْرِيدًا حَتَّى يَأْتِيَ قَوْمٌ مِنْ قِبَلِ الْمَشْرِقِ مَعَهُمْ رَايَاتٌ سُودٌ فَيَسْأَلُونَ الْخَيْرَ فَلاَ يُعْطَوْنَهُ فَيُقَاتِلُونَ فَيُنْصَرُونَ فَيُعْطَوْنَ مَا سَأَلُوا فَلاَ يَقْبَلُونَهُ حَتَّى يَدْفَعُوهَا إِلَى رَجُلٍ مِنْ أَهْلِ بَيْتِي فَيَمْلَؤُهَا قِسْطًا كَمَا مَلَؤُوهَا جَوْرًا فَمَنْ أَدْرَكَ ذَلِكَ مِنْكُمْ فَلْيَأْتِهِمْ وَلَوْ حَبْوًا عَلَى الثَّلْجِ ‏"‏ ‏

Narrated by Alqamah from Abdullah bin Masood:

One day we were sitting with Holy Prophet(s) when some children from the house of Bani Hashim came there. When the Holy Prophet(s) saw them, tears welled up in his eyes and he became pale.

Ibn Masood said that he told the Holy Prophet(s) "Your face reflects axiety".The Holy Prophet(s) stated:"Exalted God has granted us,the Ahlulbait, Hereafter instead of wordly pleasure.

After me,soon my Ahlubait will face calamity,harship and misery till people having black flags will rise from East and seek justice,which will be denied them.They will wage war,they will be supported and will be given what they were demanding.They will not accept until it is handed over to one from our Ahlulbait (i.e. Mahdi) .He will fill the earth with justice as it was filled with unjustice.Whoever amongst you is alive at that period, should try to reach them even if he has to tread on ince in that persuit."

ANALYSIS of This Hadith

1) People of Ahle Bait (family of Prophet) will face calamity. (While Nasibi Sapah Sahaba deny calamity of Fatima (salam Allah Alaiha), and also believe that YAZID is promised for Paradise due to fabricated hadith of First Naval War and Caesar's City (read it's fabrication here)

1.1) Rasool Allah started weeping upon the calmities of Ahle Bait, but here is Sapah Sahaba who never weeps for what happened to Hussain in Karbala.

Just see who are Ahle Bait? Were it wives of Muhammad (saw) who were driven out of their homes ? Or were it progeny of Muhammad (saw) who faced calmities?

2) People will rise to assist them with BLACK FLAGS [Need we to tell you who are the holder of these Black Flags throughout whole History in all these passing centuries?]

3) These people are those, who are SAD FOR THE Calamites upon Ahle Bait (family of Prophet), and they love Ahle Bait above all.

Need I still to tell you more who are the people who are indicated in these Ahadith of Mahdi?

The Flag of Rasool Allah (saw) was of black colour

We are quoting from authentic work of Ahl'ul Sunnah "Sunnan Abu Dawud", vol 3, page 22, Kitab-ul-Jihad, and "Tirmidhi Shareef", vol. 1, page 528:

"There was a special flag of Rasool
Allah
(s), whose name was "Uqaab" and it consisted of curtain of Ayesha's house.
And its colour was black."

It is written in book Akseer-ul-Abadaat, page 263:

"
Ali told Malik-e-Ashtar that I have a Standard, which I never took out before. And it was the first Standard of Rasool
Allah
(saw) and he told me that a time will come when you will fight with rebels. Then Ali (as) took out that Standard, which became old. When people saw the Standard of Rasool (s), they started weeping in loud voice. And all those who found the way till Standard, they kissed it."

So, where are those who declare the Black Flag of Shias to be an Innovation. Where are the those who declare kissing the flag and weeping in loud voice to be an Innovation and misguidance.

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The Taliban uses white flags ... and that hadith is likely a forgery from the Abbasids who used blag flags and begun their campaign against the Umayyads from Khoroshan and were lead by Abu Muslim al Khoroshani.  

 

This hadith has been graded as "hassan li ghayri" ... meaning it is only a hasan narration because of the frequency it has been narrated. 

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The Taliban uses white flags ... and that hadith is likely a forgery from the Abbasids who used blag flags and begun their campaign against the Umayyads from Khoroshan and were lead by Abu Muslim al Khoroshani.  

 

This hadith has been graded as "hassan li ghayri" ... meaning it is only a hasan narration because of the frequency it has been narrated. 

Not really, "hassan" is most likely as correct, but no due as you claimed "Frequently narrated."

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Khorsan is in Iran. 

End of story.

 

really ? There are a lot countries in khorasan. The prophecy of the hadith says they have to come forward from khorasan, only sitting in khorsan is not enough like taliban and so on. In history there was only one nation who moved forward from khorsan til istanbul and jerusalem.

 

By the way i was not allowed to post with my old account to this thread, someone is trying to hide something. You always deal in this way with such issues?  If yes then you make a very bad impression as a mod of this forum.

 

 

The last link doesnt work anymore. Here is a new one:

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?344542-Wrong-interpretation-of-Khorasan-hadith-Imam-Mahdi

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really ? There are a lot countries in khorasan. The prophecy of the hadith says they have to come forward from khorasan, only sitting in khorsan is not enough like taliban and so on. In history there was only one nation who moved forward from khorsan til istanbul and jerusalem.

Firstly Khorosan during the time of the Prophet (pbuh) was not an area that covered multiple countries. Multiple meaning  more than two. Geographically speaking it is the area that encompassed present day Iran and parts of western Afghanistan as the rest of that part during the time of the Prophet (pbuh)  was called Sind(Sindh). 

 

Second, it doens't matter how many countries or empires or whatever extended from that area and encompassed Mecca, Constantinople, and Jerusalem it matters about the one who will do so for the Qaim Al Imam Al-Mahdi (as) . 

 

Third the armies of Allah and Islam that appear during the end times will come mainly from 3 places as narrated by hadith. From Khorosan, from Iraq(Karbala, Najaf, Kufa Etc.) and from Yemen. The Armies of Dajjal will also come mainly from 3 places. They will come from Najd(Where modern day Riyadh is located and where Al Saud originates from.), from Sham and from Rome(I.E. the West).

 

The Taliban uses white flags ... and that hadith is likely a forgery from the Abbasids who used blag flags and begun their campaign against the Umayyads from Khoroshan and were lead by Abu Muslim al Khoroshani.  

 

This hadith has been graded as "hassan li ghayri" ... meaning it is only a hasan narration because of the frequency it has been narrated. 

Fourth and finally, Just because someone or a group of people use the hadith as a propaganda tool doesn't mean the hadith is wrong. It only means the people who used it as propaganda as wrong. Those same Bani Abbas and Taliban also interpreted the Quran for their benefit. Does that mean that the Quran is wrong? Astaghfur Allah.

 

Do I believe that it is only Shia who is going to help the Imam (as) ? No not at all, He will have soldiers from all believers in the One god whatever his name might be for these people. Do I believe that everyone else are going to be his enemies?? No not at all. He will have enemies from the whole world.

 

Alot of Shia and Sunnah and Jews and Christians will be following Imam Al-Zaman (as) . And likewise alot of these same people will be decieved by Dajjal.

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really ? There are a lot countries in khorasan. The prophecy of the hadith says they have to come forward from khorasan, only sitting in khorsan is not enough like taliban and so on. In history there was only one nation who moved forward from khorsan til istanbul and jerusalem.

By the way i was not allowed to post with my old account to this thread, someone is trying to hide something. You always deal in this way with such issues? If yes then you make a very bad impression as a mod of this forum.

The last link doesnt work anymore. Here is a new one:

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?344542-Wrong-interpretation-of-Khorasan-hadith-Imam-Mahdi

I have the same thought

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OP: Yes they are Taliban.

and you know how they made those black flags, they killed all the women on their way and used their black chadors as their Flag.

Go figure!

Who are the taliban?...like what ethnicity are predominantly in that group..?? what is you're preception of the afghan people...like about there ethnicity.... just curious

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Firstly Khorosan during the time of the Prophet (pbuh) was not an area that covered multiple countries. Multiple meaning  more than two. Geographically speaking it is the area that encompassed present day Iran and parts of western Afghanistan as the rest of that part during the time of the Prophet (pbuh)  was called Sind(Sindh). 

 

Second, it doens't matter how many countries or empires or whatever extended from that area and encompassed Mecca, Constantinople, and Jerusalem it matters about the one who will do so for the Qaim Al Imam Al-Mahdi (as) . 

 

Third the armies of Allah and Islam that appear during the end times will come mainly from 3 places as narrated by hadith. From Khorosan, from Iraq(Karbala, Najaf, Kufa Etc.) and from Yemen. The Armies of Dajjal will also come mainly from 3 places. They will come from Najd(Where modern day Riyadh is located and where Al Saud originates from.), from Sham and from Rome(I.E. the West).

 

 

1. Wrong

 

2. It does matter. This is the first prophecy of this hadith: They have to come forward from khorasan.  Another important point is they must be the owner of the holly relics, the banner uqab, the sword and the cloak of the prophet and they had to hand over it to the mahdi.

 

Here is the hadith:

[22] And Ibn Abi Shaybah, Nu'aym ibn Hammad in al-Fitan, Ibn Majah and Abu Nu'aym narrated from Ibn Mas'ud [radhiyallahu 'anhu] that he said:

"Once we were with the Messenger of Allah [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam], when a group of youths fromBanu Hashim approached. When the Prophet [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam] saw them, his eyes filled with tears and his colour changed.

He [i.e. Ibn Mas'ud] said: "I said: "We see in your face something that worries us." So he said:

"We, the Ahl al-Bayt, are a people for whom Allah has chosen the hereafter over this world. And my household after me will face trials, banishment and pursuit, until a people from the east come with black banners, and they will ask for what is due, but not be given it. So they will fight and be victorious, and be given what they asked for. But they will not accept it from them until they hand it over to a man from my household, who will fill it [i.e. the earth] with equity, as they had filled it with tyranny. So whoever among you reaches that time, then let him go to them, even if he must crawl over ice, for he is the Mahdi."

Al-Hafidh 'Imad ad-Din ibn Kathir said: "In this is an indication of the rule of Banul-'Abbas, and in it is a proof that the Mahdi will be after the state of Banul-'Abbas, and he will be from the Ahl al-Bayt, from the descendents of Fatimah, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam], then from the children of al-Hasan and al-Husayn."

 

 

The banner Uqab together with other holly relics are kept in Topkapi Palace Istanbul. 

 

This and a lot more was told in the last link. By the way these hadiths are dealing with the sunni mahdi as you see.

 

3. You have forgot ash-sham.

 

Abdullah ibn Hawalah [Allah's blessings be on him] narrated from the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) that he said:

"Matters will run their course until you become three armies: an army in Sham, an army in Yemen, and an army in Iraq".

Ibn Hawalah said:

"Choose for me, O Messenger of Allah! in case I live to see that day".

The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said:

"You should go to Sham, for it is the best of Allah's lands, and the best of His slaves will be drawn there!

And if you refuse, then you should go to the Yemen and drink from its wells. For Allah has guaranteed me that He will look after Sham and its people!"

 

as for the dajjal I know one more city... , the sufyani will rise from sham not the dajjal!

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Actually the first one is not wrong its actually factual that there was a distinction between Khorosan and Sind. 

 

Second the people with the black banners are going to be righteous and followers of Ahl Al-Bayt,

So please do tell me how anyone since Imam Ali up until the Islamic republic have been either kind to Ahl Al-Bayt or their followers.

Especially Bani Abbas. Bani Abbas were just as bad if not worse than the Ummayads.

And if youre referring to the Ottomans they used originally green flags and than red. So that's null.

 

Never said that the Dajjal himself will be from Sham. But however there will be armies for him from there(I.E. the Sufyani)

 

if you read carefully i said MAINLY when i was referring to the armies, that doesn not negate the fact that people form all over will join either side.

 

Plus its said the best banner to be under is that of the Yemeni. 

 

Imam Baqir, the imam says: "The appearance of Sofyani, Yamaani and Khorasani will take place in one year, one month and one day (at the same time), they will take place as a series of events that are all connected by one string… among these individuals the Yamani is the closest to guidance, for he calls the people to join the Imam.  When he rises the trading of weapons will be prohibited for every Muslim. When he rises join him immediately, for his flag is the flag of guidance and prosperity and no Muslim should oppose it. Any one who does so will go to hell, because the Yamaani calls to the right path."

 

So apparently they all appear within a year of each other.

 

 

Hadith of the Black Flags:

 

Imam Baqir (as) says: "The black flags will rise from Khorasan and move until they reach the city of Kufah, there they will wait, when the Imam appears, he will send for them to get their bey’ah(allegiance)." 

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Actually the first one is not wrong its actually factual that there was a distinction between Khorosan and Sind. 

 

Second the people with the black banners are going to be righteous and followers of Ahl Al-Bayt,

So please do tell me how anyone since Imam Ali up until the Islamic republic have been either kind to Ahl Al-Bayt or their followers.

Especially Bani Abbas. Bani Abbas were just as bad if not worse than the Ummayads.

And if youre referring to the Ottomans they used originally green flags and than red. So that's null.

 

298/2"Soon black banners will come forward from Khurasan, if you see them then go to them even if you have to crawl over ice, for among them is Allah's khalifah, the Mahdi."

narrated by Thawban Radi Allahu Anhu written in Ramuzul Ahadith by ABDUL'AZIZ BEKKINE

This hadith is reffering to Abu Muslim Khurasani and his turkish forces of Khorasan, soon is the keyword here.

 

Nu'aym ibn Hammad narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiyyah that he said:

"A black banner (i.e. a group of people or an army with black banner) will come, belonging to Banul-'Abbas (Happened in 2nd Hizri century). Then, from Khurasan will come another one, also black (Going to happen in future). Their turbans will be black and their garments white.

Abu Muslim Khurasani:

Abu Muslim Abd Rahman ibn Muslim Khorasani or al-Khurasani (Persian: ابومسلم خراسانى‎, Arabic: أبو مسلم عبد الرحمن بن مسلم الخراساني‎, c. 700 -- 755) was an Abbasid general of Persian origin,[2] who led the first major and organized liberal movement against the Umayyad dynasty.

Wikipedia

Abu Muslim was sent to Khorasan by the Abbasids initially as a propagandist and then to revolt on their behalf. On June 15th, 747 Abu Muslim hoisted the black banner and started the rebellion against the Umayyaden. also wikipedia

In the end, the oppressive Umayyad state, which was based on fanatic Arab superiority, perceiving non-Arab Muslims as mere slaves to be oppressed and humiliated all the time; which insulted those from the Prophet's family line and made disrespect against these people as a state policy; and which was never largely welcomed by Muslim community due to its despotic policies, was bound so vanish in the face of a revolting army, led by Abu Muslim al-Khorasani and comprising mostly of Turkish soldiers, commanders and people of the East. (750). THE CONQUEST OF CENTRAL ASIA BY THE MUSLIM ARABS Prof. Dr.Zekeriya

The Abbasid caliphate was founded by the descendants of the Prophet Muhammad's youngest uncle, ‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib, in Harran in 750 CE and shifted its capital in 762 to Baghdad. It flourished for two centuries, but slowly went into decline with the rise to power of the Turkish army it had created, the Mamluks.

Wikipedia

In the 8th, century, as Islam spread towards the Amu Darya, the Turks came into contact with its universal precepts and embraced the new faith. Many found service in the armed forces of the Abbasid Empire. Using their innate qualities of leadership, some rose through the ranks, occupied important positions in the army and by the middle of the 9th century, became the kingmakers in Baghdad. By the end of the 9th century, they had replaced the Caliphate in Baghdad with the Sultanate as the de-facto political power.

The Origins of the Ottoman Empire

Contributed by Prof. Dr. Nazeer Ahmed, PhD

It is commonly held by Euopean historians that the Seljuks represent the first Turks who "migrated into" Muslim lands. A closer study of historical sources reveals that this view does not take into account the Turks who lived in greater Khurasan both before and after the Arab Conquests of the seventh and eighth centuries A: D 

The Muslim Records are substantiated by notices in Byzantine, Syriac and Chinese records which refer to the Ephthalites and other peoples as Turks. The contents of various accounts of these Turks indicate that they were not merely mecenary soldiers, nor the ruling class, but formed an important part of the population of Khurasan and Tansoxania. The Muslim World

Volume 35, Issue 4, pages 308–315, October 1945

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298/2"Soon black banners will come forward from Khurasan, if you see them then go to them even if you have to crawl over ice, for among them is Allah's khalifah, the Mahdi."

narrated by Thawban Radi Allahu Anhu written in Ramuzul Ahadith by ABDUL'AZIZ BEKKINE

This hadith is reffering to Abu Muslim Khurasani and his turkish forces of Khorasan, soon is the keyword here.

 

Nu'aym ibn Hammad narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiyyah that he said:

"A black banner (i.e. a group of people or an army with black banner) will come, belonging to Banul-'Abbas (Happened in 2nd Hizri century). Then, from Khurasan will come another one, also black (Going to happen in future). Their turbans will be black and their garments white.

Abu Muslim Khurasani:

Abu Muslim Abd Rahman ibn Muslim Khorasani or al-Khurasani (Persian: ابومسلم خراسانى‎, Arabic: أبو مسلم عبد الرحمن بن مسلم الخراساني‎, c. 700 -- 755) was an Abbasid general of Persian origin,[2] who led the first major and organized liberal movement against the Umayyad dynasty.

Wikipedia

Abu Muslim was sent to Khorasan by the Abbasids initially as a propagandist and then to revolt on their behalf. On June 15th, 747 Abu Muslim hoisted the black banner and started the rebellion against the Umayyaden. also wikipedia

In the end, the oppressive Umayyad state, which was based on fanatic Arab superiority, perceiving non-Arab Muslims as mere slaves to be oppressed and humiliated all the time; which insulted those from the Prophet's family line and made disrespect against these people as a state policy; and which was never largely welcomed by Muslim community due to its despotic policies, was bound so vanish in the face of a revolting army, led by Abu Muslim al-Khorasani and comprising mostly of Turkish soldiers, commanders and people of the East. (750). THE CONQUEST OF CENTRAL ASIA BY THE MUSLIM ARABS Prof. Dr.Zekeriya

The Abbasid caliphate was founded by the descendants of the Prophet Muhammad's youngest uncle, ‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib, in Harran in 750 CE and shifted its capital in 762 to Baghdad. It flourished for two centuries, but slowly went into decline with the rise to power of the Turkish army it had created, the Mamluks.

Wikipedia

In the 8th, century, as Islam spread towards the Amu Darya, the Turks came into contact with its universal precepts and embraced the new faith. Many found service in the armed forces of the Abbasid Empire. Using their innate qualities of leadership, some rose through the ranks, occupied important positions in the army and by the middle of the 9th century, became the kingmakers in Baghdad. By the end of the 9th century, they had replaced the Caliphate in Baghdad with the Sultanate as the de-facto political power.

The Origins of the Ottoman Empire

Contributed by Prof. Dr. Nazeer Ahmed, PhD

It is commonly held by Euopean historians that the Seljuks represent the first Turks who "migrated into" Muslim lands. A closer study of historical sources reveals that this view does not take into account the Turks who lived in greater Khurasan both before and after the Arab Conquests of the seventh and eighth centuries A: D 

The Muslim Records are substantiated by notices in Byzantine, Syriac and Chinese records which refer to the Ephthalites and other peoples as Turks. The contents of various accounts of these Turks indicate that they were not merely mecenary soldiers, nor the ruling class, but formed an important part of the population of Khurasan and Tansoxania. The Muslim World

Volume 35, Issue 4, pages 308–315, October 1945

 

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?344542-Wrong-interpretation-of-Khorasan-hadith-Imam-Mahdi&p=4912422&viewfull=1#post4912422

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You completely neglected what I had written so Ill repeat it.

 

Imam Baqir, the imam says: "The appearance of Sofyani, Yamaani and Khorasani will take place in one year, one month and one day (at the same time), they will take place as a series of events that are all connected by one string… among these individuals the Yamani is the closest to guidance, for he calls the people to join the Imam.  When he rises the trading of weapons will be prohibited for every Muslim. When he rises join him immediately, for his flag is the flag of guidance and prosperity and no Muslim should oppose it. Any one who does so will go to hell, because the Yamaani calls to the right path."

 

The Imam (as) clearly states that they all happen within a year.

 

So the flags have to come out during the year that the Yamaani and Sufyani appear. So as I said before it doesn't matter who has used black flags before it matters who uses them at the right time. and considering the other two haven't arrived than that also means the Khorosani and his army haven't appeared yet.

 

 

It is you who is ignoring some important points and its me who is repeating. If you would read first what someone is saying and try to understand then there would be no need to bring arguments like: Khorasan refers only to Iran and Sind or the ottomans have used red and green flags and not black ones or they have to use it at the rihgt time. You read one hadith and believe you can explain everything, you should know I havent read a few hadith about the black banners like you. 

 

And where does the above hadith state that the mahdi is among these black baners who will come in the future? Nowhere!

Bring the hadith that clearly states the mahdi is among these black banners( shuayb ibn saleh or banu hashim) like I do. You make consecution by your own which are not written simply in hadith.

 

298/2"Soon black banners will come forward from Khurasan, if you see them then go to them even if you have to crawl over ice, for among them is Allah's khalifah, the Mahdi."

 

You know the meaning of soon? a short time or 1400 years?

 

Hadith about the banners who will come in the future, Shuayb ibn Saleh and Banu Hashim do not state that the mahdi  is among them. They describe all the same situation. They will fight the sufyani in khorasan and will defeat them and when they are settled in kufah the Mahdi appears alone in mekkah with the banner uqab and the trusted relics which are kept in istanbul.

 

Its another story if Shuayb ibn saleh or banu hashem represent iran as a whole. I dont think so coz they have together a man power up to 8000 people according to hadiths.

 

Who will be known as Shuayb ibn Salih. He will have white clothes, a black banner and 4000 people under his command

Al-Fatawa al-Hadithiyyah, Abul Abbas Shahabuddin Ahmad Ibn Hajar al-Haytami -41

 

 And Nu'aym ibn Hammad narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiyyah that he said:

"A black banner will come, belonging to Banul-'Abbas. Then, from Khurasan will come another one, also black. Their turbans will be black and their garments white. At the head of their army will be a man called Shu'ayb ibn Salih ibn Shu'ayb, from Tamim. They will defeat the companions of the Sufyani until he [i.e. Shu'ayb ibn Salih] settles in Bayt al-Maqdis, preparing the way for the Mahdi's rule. Three hundred men from ash-Sham will help him. Between his coming and the handing over of the rule to the Mahdi will be seventy months."

 

And Nu'aym narrated from Abu Ja'far that he said:

"A youth from Banu Hashim will come, with a mole on his right hand, from Khurasan with black banners.

Before him will be Shu'ayb ibn Salih, who will fight the companions of the Sufyani and defeat them."

 

[110] And he also narrated from Abu Ja'far that he said:

"The black banners that come out from Khurasan will settle at al-Kufah. When the Mahdi appears in Makkah, they will send the bay'ah to him."

 

And he also narrated from Abu Ja'far that he said:

"Then the Mahdi will appear in Makkah at the 'Isha' prayer, carrying with him the banner of the Messenger

of Allah [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam], his cloak and his sword, and with clear signs, light, and proofs.

When he has prayed 'Isha', he will call out at the top of his voice, saying: ...

 

The banner is kept in istanbul! The following hadith is clearly refering to the trusted relics that those people moved forward from khorasan with black flags belonging to banul abbas and they will hand it out to the mahdi and that he is among these people.

 

 

And Ibn Abi Shaybah, Nu'aym ibn Hammad in al-Fitan, Ibn Majah and Abu Nu'aym narrated from Ibn Mas'ud [radhiyallahu 'anhu] that he said:

"Once we were with the Messenger of Allah [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam], when a group of youths from Banu Hashim approached. When the Prophet [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam] saw them, his eyes filled with tears and his colour changed.

 

Note: The descendants of Banu Hashim were involved in the ummayad dynasty.

 

He [i.e. Ibn Mas'ud] said: "I said: "We see in your face something that worries us." So he said:

"We, the Ahl al-Bayt, are a people for whom Allah has chosen the hereafter over this world. And my household after me will face trials, banishment and pursuit, until a people from the east come with black banners, and they will ask for what is due, but not be given it. So they will fight and be victorious, and be given what they asked for. But they will not accept it from them until they hand it over to a man from my household, who will fill it [i.e. the earth] with equity, as they had filled it with tyranny. So whoever among you reaches that time, then let him go to them, even if he must crawl over ice, for he is the Mahdi."

Al-Hafidh 'Imad ad-Din ibn Kathir said: "In this is an indication of the rule of Banul-'Abbas, and in it is a proof that the Mahdi will be after the state of Banul-'Abbas, and he will be from the Ahl al-Bayt, from the descendents of Fatimah, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam], then from the children of al-Hasan and al-Husayn."

 

 

The black banners which will come in the future (Shuayb ibn Saleh) are not the bearer of the banner uqab. They are the bearer of the mahdis banner.

 

And at-Tabarani in al-Awsat narrated from Ibn 'Umar [radhiyallahu 'anhuma]:

...."There will come from the loins of this one [i.e. al-'Abbas] a tribe who will fill the earth will tyranny and oppression. And there will come from the loins of this one [i.e. 'Ali] a tribe who will fill the earth with equity and justice. So when you see that, then you must join the Tamimi youth. For he will come from the east, and he will be the bearer of the Mahdi's banner."

 

Tamimi youth is shuayb ibn saleh. There is not one single hadith that clearly states the mahdi is among the black banners of shuayb ibn saleh or banu hashem who will come from the far east.

 

I hope there will be no need to repeat me again.

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Its is you who is ignoring some important points and me who is repeating. If you would read first and try to understand what a person infront  of you is saying

then there would be no need to bring arguments like khorasan refers to Iran and Sind, the ottomans have used red and green flags or now the khorasani have not appeared yet.

 

First the above hadtih you posted does not say anything about the mahdi is being among the black banners of Shuayb  ibn Saleh and Banu Hashim.

Hadiths about Shauyb ibn Saleh and Banu Hashim dont state the Mahdi is being among them. They describe the same situation. They will defeat the cavalry of the sufyani in khorasan and when they are settled in kufah the mahdi emerges in Mekkah with the banner uqab of the prophet pboh his sword and his cloak which are kept in Istanbul and the black banners sending their bajah to the mahdi from kufah. Its is another story if shuaby ibn saleh does represent iran as a whole, I strongly doubt that, however here are the hadith:

 

And Nu'aym narrated from Abu Ja'far that he said:
"A youth from Banu Hashim will come, with a mole on his right hand, from Khurasan with black banners.
Before him will be Shu'ayb ibn Salih, who will fight the companions of the Sufyani and defeat them."

 

And he also narrated from 'Ali [radhiyallahu 'anhu] that he said:
"Black banners will come out, fighting the Sufyani, among them a youth from Banu Hashim, with a mole
on his left shoulder. At the head of his army will be a man from Banu Tamim called Shu'ayb ibn Salih, who will defeat his [i.e. the Sufyani's] companions."

 

And he also narrated from Abu Ja'far that he said:
"The black banners that come out from Khurasan will settle at al-Kufah. When the Mahdi appears in
Makkah, they will send the bay'ah to him.
"

 

same situation in these Hadiths 92, 93, 94, 104, 106 can refer to both banners, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 172

 

Suyuti’s al-’Arf al-Wardi fi akhbar al-Mahdi

 

There is not one single hadith that states the Mahdi is among the black banners of Shuayb ibn Saleh or Banu Hashim, thats the whole point in contradiction there are many hadiths which makes clear that the mahdi is not among these black banners.

 

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?344542-Wrong-interpretation-of-Khorasan-hadith-Imam-Mahdi&s=4bfdf460efa6fe9e240990106cb1ae7f&p=4912422&viewfull=1#post4912422 was said before, you have completly ignored it.

 

Here again:

 

298/2"Soon black banners will come forward from Khurasan, if you see them then go to them even if you have to crawl over ice, for among them is Allah's khalifah, the Mahdi."

narrated by Thawban Radi Allahu Anhu written in Ramuzul Ahadith by ABDUL'AZIZ BEKKINE

 

This hadith is refering to the black banners of bannul abbas, current turkey. Soon is the keyword here. Or does soon mean over 1400 years?

 

And Ibn Abi Shaybah, Nu'aym ibn Hammad in al-Fitan, Ibn Majah and Abu Nu'aym narrated from Ibn Mas'ud [radhiyallahu 'anhu] that he said:

"Once we were with the Messenger of Allah [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam], when a group of youths from Banu Hashim approached. When the Prophet [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam] saw them, his eyes filled with tears and his colour changed.

He [i.e. Ibn Mas'ud] said: "I said: "We see in your face something that worries us." So he said:

"We, the Ahl al-Bayt, are a people for whom Allah has chosen the hereafter over this world. And my household after me will face trials, banishment and pursuit, until a people from the east come with black banners, and they will ask for what is due, but not be given it. So they will fight and be victorious, and be given what they asked for. But they will not accept it from them until they hand it over to a man from my household, who will fill it [i.e. the earth] with equity, as they had filled it with tyranny. So whoever among you reaches that time, then let him go to them, even if he must crawl over ice, for he is the Mahdi."



Al-Hafidh 'Imad ad-Din ibn Kathir said: "In this is an indication of the rule of Banul-'Abbas, and in it is a proof that the Mahdi will be after the state of Banul-'Abbas, and he will be from the Ahl al-Bayt, from the descendents of Fatimah, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam], then from the children of al-Hasan and al-Husayn."

 

 

As ibn Kathir said in this is an indication of the rule of bannul abbas, black banners belonging to bannul abbas (current turkey) and as the hadith states the black banners will get the banner uqab and they will hand it out to the Mahdi.

 

Shuay ibn Saleh in contradiction is the bearer of the Mahdis banner:

 

And at-Tabarani in al-Awsat narrated from Ibn 'Umar [radhiyallahu 'anhuma]:
...."There will come from the loins of this one [i.e. al-'Abbas] a tribe who will fill the earth will tyranny and oppression. And there will come from the loins of this one [i.e. 'Ali] a tribe who will fill the earth with equity and justice. So when you see that, then you must join the Tamimi youth. For he will come from the east, and he will be the bearer of the Mahdi's banner."

 

Shuayb ibn Saleh is not the bearer of Uqab nor the Mahdi is among them,the prophet pboh said you must join him becuase he is the bearer of the Mahdis banner and not because the mahdi is among them.

 

The ottomans have already fullfilled this prohecy til to the madhi part. Like this hadith:

 

And Ahmad, at-Tirmidhi and Nu'aym ibn Hammad narrated from Abu Hurayrah [radhiyallahu 'anhu]
that he said: "The Messenger of Allah [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam] said:
"Black banners will come out of Khurasan, and nothing will stop them, until they are raised in Ayliya' [i.e.
Bayt al-Maqdis]."

 

The black banners of Shuayb ibn Saleh do not liberate Jerusalem, they fight the cavalry of the sufyanin in khorasan and when theya are settled in kufah then the Mahdi emerges in Mekkah with the banner Uqab and the black banners send their bajah to the mahdi:

 

And he also narrated from Abu Ja'far that he said:
"Then the Mahdi will appear in Makkah at the 'Isha' prayer, carrying with him the banner of the Messenger
of Allah [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam], his cloak and his sword,
and with clear signs, light, and proofs.

 

So the hadiths stating the mahdi being among the black banners are dealing with the sunni Mahdi and they refer to turkey crystal clear!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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You completely neglected what I had written so Ill repeat it.

 

Imam Baqir, the imam says: "The appearance of Sofyani, Yamaani and Khorasani will take place in one year, one month and one day (at the same time), they will take place as a series of events that are all connected by one string… among these individuals the Yamani is the closest to guidance, for he calls the people to join the Imam.  When he rises the trading of weapons will be prohibited for every Muslim. When he rises join him immediately, for his flag is the flag of guidance and prosperity and no Muslim should oppose it. Any one who does so will go to hell, because the Yamaani calls to the right path."

 

The Imam (as) clearly states that they all happen within a year.

 

So the flags have to come out during the year that the Yamaani and Sufyani appear. So as I said before it doesn't matter who has used black flags before it matters who uses them at the right time. and considering the other two haven't arrived than that also means the Khorosani and his army haven't appeared yet.

My comments are not approved through a moderator. However I would repeat what I have already said.

 

The hadith you have posted does not say anything  about the Mahdi being among the  black banners who will come in the future.

If this would be so then you would be able to proof this through a hadith. I ask only one. I already provided 2 hadiths.

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