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In the Name of God بسم الله

"Pakistan Should Be Declared A Sunni State" -

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oxygen

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http://jang.com.pk/t...-2013/spr.htm#2

“The country should be declared a Sunni state”

— Maulana Muhammad Ahmed Ludhianvi, Chief of

Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat (ASWJ)

By Waqar Gillani

The News on Sunday: How do you look at the rising wave of sectarianism in Pakistan these days?

Muhammad Ahmed Ludhianvi: In my view, these acts are being undertaken by foreign and external elements, aimed at weakening Pakistan. We think this government has completed its term and there should be no conspiracy to cause delay in the elections. Black Water, the US, India, Israel and Iran are behind these blasts to destabilise Pakistan. Many of the accused arrested by the Pakistani authorities in Karachi, according to our information, were trained in Iran. We always condemn the killing of innocent people. We urge the Supreme Court of Pakistan to deeply look into these matters to understand the conspiracies behind these incidents.

Why only Hazaras are being targeted in Quetta when other Shiites also live in Quetta? This is surprising for us. There are many in-fights within that community which has roots in Afghanistan. Conspiracies are being hatched to separate Balochistan from Pakistan. We, for the sake of peace, have also held a peace conference in Quetta on the platform of Difa-e-Pakistan Council (DPC), an alliance of more than 30 religious parties.

TNS: There are reports in the media that LeJ, a militant group that emerged from SSP and is stated to be close to ASWJ ideology, has accepted responsibility of these attacks on Shias.

MAL: We have, many times, categorically stated that ASWJ (Ahl-e-Sunnat Wal Jamaat), the party which I am leading at the moment, has nothing to do with Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan or Lashkar-e-Jhangvi. I can challenge this allegation on any platform. This is beyond imagination for us how the LeJ, like the Taliban, sends their messages to the media, claiming responsibility of such attacks.

The LeJ and Taliban seem as if they are a creature hanging between the earth and sky because our intelligence and law enforcement agencies fail to trace them. They have failed to trace the killers of innocent Shias and Sunnis. We believe that you cannot crush anybody with power and the ultimate solution to these issues, always, is to sit on the table and talk.

TNS: What’s your take on the government targeted operation against terrorists?

MAL: We believe targeted operations cannot resolve this issue. Just take the example of ANP which, ultimately, has gone for a dialogue with Taliban. The solution lies in talks and not in targeted operations. There is need for a consensus strategy and I believe it is high time the government called an All Parties Conference to discuss the issue of sectarian killings. In 1996, religious parties formed the Milli Yakjehti Council (MYC), comprising all religious parties, including the Shia parties. They agreed to a code of conduct. The sectarian issue was resolved to a reasonable extent. There was a decrease in violence.

Recently, late Qazi Hussain Ahmad, also wanted to form a council of religious parties on similar grounds but, unfortunately, he passed away. There was not much disagreement between LeJ and SSP on that code of conduct.

TNS: It is said that some elements in the SSP disagreed with the idea of forming MYC and ultimately formed LeJ, targeting Shias. Later, there were reports in the press that you, on the request of then Punjab government, met the chief of LeJ, Malik Ishaq, in jail to make an agreement that he would remain inactive after his release.

MAL: It is true that I met Malik Ishaq, chief of LeJ, in jail a couple of times and he promised me not to be violent if he is released. I challenge the accusation that Malik Ishaq is involved in sectarian or any other kind of violence after his release. A few days ago, some Shia groups tried to attack him during a wedding ceremony and a public procession and some of his activists were injured but they did not respond to the attack. So, we should not create a situation which forces such people to defy the policy of peace.

TNS: Does ASWJ have political ambitions?

MAL: Yes. We have become part of Muttahida Dini Mahaz (MDM), currently led by Maulana Samiul Haq. It is an alliance of six religious parties and our agenda is to resolve the issues politically by entering the parliament rather than coming on roads and staging protests. The manifesto of MDM would be launched very soon. On this platform, we also want a solution to sectarianism through effective legislation. We believe that nobody should be allowed to utter derogatory remarks against companions of Prophet Muhammad and there should be a strict punishment if any person commits this blasphemy. This demand is close to Namoos-e-Sahaba and Ahle-Bait Bill once presented by late Maulana Azam Tariq in the National Assembly.

TNS: There are reports in the press that you are also in contact with the PML-N for electoral alliance. Are you planning alliances at the national, provincial or local level?

MAL: Since we have political motives and the MDM has decided to contest the upcoming general elections, we are in contact with many political parties, including the PML-N. We want to make an alliance with the parties which are close to our ideology and understand our point of view, parties that vow to protect the ideology of Pakistan. These alliances can be at any level if the other side agrees to our manifesto.

We believe that the ruling coalition, led by the PPP, has created a mess in the country. It is high time they announced the schedule of elections. We believe that these terrorist and sectarian incidents are a plan to delay the next elections. A free and fair caretaker set-up can maintain the law and order. If a free and fair caretaker set-up is not there, the situation might become even worse.

TNS: How close is the PML-N to your ideology and objectives?

MAL: The PML-N is not very close to our ideology, but, at the same time, it is not very far either.

TNS: On how many seats do you plan to make an alliance to contest general elections?

MAL: We have decided to field candidates on about 20 seats. Currently, we are aiming to contest elections in Jhang, Khanewal, Muzaffargarh, Bahawalpur in Punjab, Tando Allah Yar, Mirpur Khas, Karachi, and Khairpur in Sindh, Peshawar, Dera Ismael Khan, Batgaram, and Kohat in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. We have decided our candidates for these areas. From Jhang, I will be the candidate for the National Assembly seat against Sheikh Waqas Akram.

TNS: The SSP has also been demanding that Pakistan be declared a “Sunni State”. To what extent do you have this agenda in your objectives?

MAL: We believe that Sunnis have a clear majority in Pakistan. They are 97 percent of the total population of the country. The country should be declared a Sunni state and all the Sunni factions can make rules accordingly. The president, prime minister, chief justice of the Supreme Court and all other offices should be held by Sunnis. You can take the example of Iran where Shia are in majority and they have declared the country a Shiite state. If they can do it why we cannot go for this? Shia, in Pakistan, should be declared a minority and they can live peacefully like other minorities.

Edited by oxygen
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97% of the Pakistani population is Sunni, is that right?

Isn't that what the wahabbis claim, I'm pretty sure its less.

No, Pakistan is only 95-97% Muslim, and of that 10-16% are Shia.

http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2008/108505.htm

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2122.html?countryName=Pakistan&countryCode=pk&regionCode=saspk

http://www.pewforum.org/Muslim/Mapping-the-Global-Muslim-Population%286%29.aspx

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Salam

if they never separated India and made pakistan then they would not be killing shia people today!!!

It was mainley Shia people who made pkistan, but Gandi was the 1 who quoted Imam Hussain "a.s"!!!

The Sunni have been made to hate Shia, and Shia to hate Sunni, so now there is haters and no Muslims!!!

So fall into the Zion trap and kill each other, because they can never kill us, so we have to do it..

Wow you are so great and intelligent

What will you say on judjmentday !!!!!!!

Salam.

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The least you could do is 'like' his post. Gosh you are so ungrateful. :P

3 people have commented without liking the post, a little unsure why this has been directed to me.

Also surely nobody is obliged to like the post, and logically not liking a post does not make you ungrateful.

Also, perhaps you should take your own advice, I notice you haven't liked the post.

Wa Salaam

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3 people have commented without liking the post, a little unsure why this has been directed to me.

Also surely nobody is obliged to like the post, and logically not liking a post does not make you ungrateful.

Also, perhaps you should take your own advice, I notice you haven't liked the post.

Wa Salaam

1) I thought the " :P" would have given you the hint I was joking, but I guess it still went way above your head

2) He was responding directly to you, not to the other people who posted in the thread (which was only you at the time btw)

3) I don't know who taught you to count, but 3 other people haven't commented, especially if you don't count yourself and me.

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Alhumdulilah my counting skills seem to be in order, I was counting AliHussainFaraji, Zaqi Yumani and myself.

Sayyeda, he was just kidding. You're taking this place too seriously.

I suppose I use the site for learning purposes and maybe others have a more relaxed approach.

Maybe you're right, I didn't mean to offend anyone.

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Alhumdulilah my counting skills seem to be in order, I was counting AliHussainFaraji, Zaqi Yumani and myself.

So you count the post that he made as him not 'liking' it himself? Do you realize that's not even possible? Never mind, I'm obviously not dealing with the sharpest tool in the shed.

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So you count the post that he made as him not 'liking' it himself? Do you realize that's not even possible? Never mind, I'm obviously not dealing with the sharpest tool in the shed.

I think there has been a misunderstanding, all this time I was under the impression you were talking about the OP (oxygen). Maybe you should have specified or made it clear.

I'm not going to retort to your several rude statements.

Imam Ali (a.s) used to say silence is the best reply to the fool :)

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I think there has been a misunderstanding, all this time I was under the impression you were talking about the OP (oxygen). Maybe you should have specified or made it clear.

I'm not going to retort to your several rude statements.

Imam Ali (a.s) used to say silence is the best reply to the fool :)

So you saw that I said "The least you could do is 'like' his post. Gosh you are so ungrateful. :P" after quoting this post:

No, Pakistan is only 95-97% Muslim, and of that 10-16% are Shia.

http://www.state.gov...2008/108505.htm

https://www.cia.gov/...ionCode=sas

http://www.pewforum....ulation(6).aspx

I thought so, those statistics sound more realistic.

And a ) Couldn't tell it was an obvious joke and b ) STILL thought I was talking about the OP, and I'm the fool? lmao Maybe you should look up the word 'irony'.

Anyway, I'm done with you. Have a good night.

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This is so funny. On one hand these munafiqs antagonize Iran and its revolution, and on the other they want one just like it. Bravo. And who among them is like the toe nail of Khomeini? None. And they are such cowards that they can't stand up and take the government. Instead they whine and beg for it. Lol. Yeah sure, Nawaz will hand it to you, just wait. :P

Secondly, 97% Sunnis? That means Rehman Malik, Veena Malik, Nawaz Sharif, Malik Ishaq, the 3500 senators+MNAs+MPAs and all their crooklings and all the scum that makes Pakistan the failure it is are Sunni "Muslims" from inside? Hmm, if you say so mulla.

My advice is, get rooms in the Marriot for your Sunni 'revolution'.

Edited by Darth Vader
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On 2/27/2013 at 10:02 PM, *Sayyeda* said:

97% of the Pakistani population is Sunni, is that right?

Isn't that what the wahabbis claim, I'm pretty sure its less.

Salam. I am from Pakistan (I do not live there anymore) and I'd say that around 20 - 30% of the population are Shia

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8 hours ago, Hussain Haider Bilgrami said:

Salam. I am from Pakistan (I do not live there anymore) and I'd say that around 20 - 30% of the population are Shia

Doing a search l found that a 2012 PEW Survey determined that Pakistan is 6% Shi'a. Other estimates range 5% to 20%.

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First, there are NO Sunni left in Pakistan. They are either Barelvi, Deobandi, Tahir ul Qadri, Farhat Hashmi or Ahl-al-Hadith, and Pure Quranists. Each of them hate the other, except Deobandi and Ahl-al-Hadith who both being Wahhabi and muqassir can make out sometimes on that common ground. Then there are admittedly the orthodox Sunni, who used to form the backbone of Pakistan. They are extinct and have no leadership or platform like orthodox Sunni in other countries, nearing complete assimilation.

As for Shia that's also a generalization. There are the Ismaili / Agha Khanis, there are the 12'er Usooli and non-usooli and deviant. There is a brave new uprising of Nusehris here from Lahore region who openly say "Ali is Allah" and have over decades created snares like new tashahud, azaan, tafweez, and the whole shbang, easing people to raise the slogan of "Ali Allah" in their majalis now. Part of me thinks it is good. Good riddance. Useless people anyway. And then there are the Malangs whose only furoo is hasheesh and abrupt hiccup like slogan of "Ali!". These are the most ignorant of all as they insist on ignorance and baseless qiyas. These gentlemen can be found on the shrines of religious figures all over Pakistan like ants over a piece of food. If these guys can not say Labbaik to Allah when the azaan is given do you really think they will abandon their hedonist routines to say Labbaik to Mahdi (عليه السلام) or any real cause for that matter?

So all those surveys have been pretty useless.

Edited by The Green Knight
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7 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Doing a search l found that a 2012 PEW Survey determined that Pakistan is 6% Shi'a. Other estimates range 5% to 20%.

Salam declaring yourself as a Shia is not an easy task in countries like as Pakistan also many Shias are doing Taqyia in these cases when they are not sure about intention of questioners .

 

3 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

There is a brave new uprising of Nusehris here from Lahore region who openly say "Ali is Allah" and have over decades created snares like new tashahud, azaan, tafweez, and the whole shbang, easing people to raise the slogan of "Ali Allah" in their majalis now. Part of me thinks it is good. Good riddance.

it maybe looks like good but at the end of day provides opportunity for anti Shias to take their slogans & innovation as a proof for their accusation against rest of Shias that are trying to survive in Pakistan. 

Saudis pressured Pakistan into skipping Malaysia summit: Erdogan

https://en.abna24.com/news//saudis-pressured-Pakistan-into-skipping-malaysia-summit-erdogan_995590.html

 

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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8 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

it maybe looks like good but at the end of day provides opportunity for anti Shias to take their slogans & innovation as a proof for their accusation against rest of Shias that are trying to survive in Pakistan. 

The keys to stopping them is in the hand of Shia leadership. The source of it in Iran (and Iraq) the grand jurists they are the ones who folded to their deviances in the first place, allowing the innovations for the better of the whole. Now these people have unveiled their true selves. Even now they can be stopped but only by the orthodox Shia leadership after taking difficult decisions and having the Shia leadership in Pakistan start a motion through court and the senate to declare these upstarts non-Shia. Yes, just like we the Shia did this before with the Ahmadi/Qadiyanis. Declare "Ali Allah" people and their abetters as non-Muslim. Before the enemy according to their plan declares all of us non-Muslim because of these. But I don't imagine this will be done, not at least until it is too late.

This is all happening as foretold in Hadith. The Shia are being milled like grain and the chaff is separating from the flour. I insist, good riddance to it.

Edited by The Green Knight
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19 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

The keys to stopping them is in the hand of Shia leadership. The source of it in Iran (and Iraq) the grand jurists they are the ones who folded to their deviances in the first place,

your words contradict with each other already Shia leadership is from Iraq & Iran that that Pakistan  leadership is not independent from these two alsoo Pakistani Shias except Akhbaris call themselves as followers of Grand Ayatollah Sistani & Imam Khamenei that both of them are against these deviance  & innovation but it's not undeniable that some individual jurists & groups are spreading such deviance  & innovation from Iran & Iraq but they don't represent dominant policy of Iran or Iraq.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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5 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

your words contradict with each other already Shia leadership is from Iraq & Iran that that Pakistan  leadership is not independent from these two alsoo Pakistani Shias except Akhbaris call themselves as followers of Grand Ayatollah Sistani & Imam Khamenei that both of them are against these deviance  & innovation but it's not undeniable that single jurists are spreading such deviance  & innovation from Iran & Iraq but they don't represent dominant policy of Iran or Iraq.

Sorry. They have stood by for decades and not even condemn the innovations. Ignoring and staying silent is the same as compliance. Did they not know that Tafweez and asking Imams for help is borderline Nusehriism and especially the deeply ignorant masses of Punjab would easily become Nusehri with these innovations? Did they not know their subjects give modified azaan, read modified tashahud and salaat same way Sunnis modified their salat and added to it, that we were peppered with innovations and polytheist Hindu culture and grave worship percolated into local Shiism and set like resin within it? Now after 5 decades these generations are finally going to be lost completely. Did no one tell the Wali Amr lil Momineen that, or did he never appoint reps here?

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8 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

Did no one tell the Wali Amr lil Momineen that, or did he never appoint reps here?

they said it countles times also both grand Ayatollah Sistani & Imam Khamenei have reps in Pakistan but they face opposition even put their lives in danger from some groups even from some Shias that are seeking disunity in subcontinent & insist on some acts like as Tatbir & honoring horses like as sacred things .

Currently he is not only the leader of Islami Tehrik but, he is the designated leader of the Pakistani Shiite community of Pakistan by the Supreme leader Ayatollah Syed Ali Khamenei. Naqvi also heads the religious wing of Tehrik-e-Islami I.e. the Shia Ulema Council. He is often called as the representative of Wilayat-e-Faqih in Pakistan, as he religiously represents the Supreme Leader of Iran Ayatullah Ali Khamenei in the country. After the murder of Arif Hussain Hussaini in 1988, he was elected as the head of the Tehrik-e-Jafaria by the Supreme Council of Shiite clergy of Pakistan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syed_Sajid_Ali_Naqvi

The Representative of the Supreme Religious Authority, Ali al-Sistani,and the headmaster of the Jaafariya Religious School in the Pakistani Capital, Islam Abad, was killed by the criminals of the terrorist Jaish Sahaba organization.

https://www.iraqinews.com/features/Sistani-s-representative-in-Pakistan-killed/

Current Representative of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohsin_Ali_Najafi

  

https://www.Sistani.org/english/data/8/

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10 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Brother very very sorry but this man is the most ineffective, the most corrupt Shia leader here in Pakistan who always sides with or paves way for Taghooti political parties. The movement died after Shaheed Arif Hussain Al-Hussaini, may he rest in peace, a real momin and leader. Now its pretty much unheard of (unless someone counts wall chalking as evidence of its presence?). Never in my life have I seen or met Sajid Naqvi, I should not have to tell you this. He is the laughing stock among educated Shias. He demands respect but is absolutely useless and "for sale" sort of a person. Anyone can buy him. And his big jeep, quaint little motorcade and unarmed few body guards along with smiling open arms of taghooti figures gives it all away to even those who have not read of his pro-status quo / pro-western activities.

Mohsin Najfi is also very old and limited to his little city.

Think about it, if there was any work being done then today we would not be threatened from jahalat that has risen from among those who were our own. But anyway I did not seek a discussion about these people. You seemed sorry to see the Nusehri arise and break away so I explained it to you. They were always at the back of our ranks. Now its their time to emerge.

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And why shouldn't the Nusehri also have their happy hour? At a time when "liberal Muslims" "moderate Muslims", secular, atheists, agnostics, gays, transvestites, prostitutes and all manner of ***** is crawling out of their holes like earthworms after the rain? Let them all emerge and stand and be recognized. All this was foretold and brings joy to me personally because the Imam's return is close now. That the husk separates from the flour. You should also be joyous.

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15 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

The movement died after Shaheed Arif Hussain Al-Hussaini, may he rest in peace, a real momin and leader. Now its pretty much unheard of (unless someone counts wall chalking as evidence of its presence?)

movement is still alive that Syed Jawad Naqvi represents "Shaheed Arif Hussain Al-Hussaini, may he rest in peace " 

He is a staunch supporter of the Islamic Revolution of Iran. In many of his speeches he propagates theories of Wilayat-e-Fiqh.

Syed Jawad Naqvi is the founder and leader of movement of Islamic Awakening in the sub-continent. ″Tehreek e Baidari e Ummat e Mustafa SAWW″ 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syed_Jawad_Naqvi

https://www.shiatv.net/uprofile.php?UID=62048&__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=68c44eb1c89c77ebd688717b680a6d0f5812d9d4-1577085745-0-AdiG2RpZV78IdbsqeRxi29UnoP1A04rRoiDV52teai6tGXMkzVqTpIqONoBPWvqvYOhBubrjMpN7PnQuEmwgzEukVjuL0ZS8JHyX9xXvuStZb6_syVjqa-2UgFeE8FTnpav_NxgSQ9DcgfGkdXM3Tp96p3t-H9-EpfumBuFygYi02lZKex1MphzZdLGmUKfRa3w6Eo6no9y0s1Hkf67TnpogrHHBshRqhZHUUg3l-eXTbC1SJXN2oBmZTEqjtYxSQ4nmxOgIbiBkDSfEtYWr_5ur6RYE5i3PeYXWKkLe6wK2

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDeUZQLGCH1M4cnxbx-V47w

http://www.islamimarkaz.com/web/

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3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

He is the only active person trying to tackle the problem right now with regular speeches. Without proper support and organization of all 12er usoolis he will not deliver results the way we need them.

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On 12/22/2019 at 11:16 PM, Diaz said:

Isn’t the founder of Pakistan Shi’a?

Yes

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On 12/23/2019 at 7:09 PM, jack.far97 said:

Pakistan might as well just become Communist... Their best friend is China! China is murdering Muslims and Pakistan stays silent

No "Muslim nation" will speak against China's ethnic cleansing. It should teach everyone a thing or two about colonialism, however.

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On 2/27/2013 at 4:53 PM, oxygen said:

Muhammad Ahmed Ludhianvi: In my view, these acts are being undertaken by foreign and external elements, aimed at weakening Pakistan. We think this government has completed its term and there should be no conspiracy to cause delay in the elections. Black Water, the US, India, Israel and Iran are behind these blasts to destabilise Pakistan. Many of the accused arrested by the Pakistani authorities in Karachi, according to our information, were trained in Iran. We always condemn the killing of innocent people. We urge the Supreme Court of Pakistan to deeply look into these matters to understand the conspiracies behind these incidents.

The Indian government, as well as many Indians, worship the US and Israel. However, "sectarian violence" (aka Shia killing) happens because of the role that the Pakistani government played in the Soviet Afghan conflict under Operation Cyclone. It's time to take out the trash. And by trash, I mean the subversion of our textbooks, turning them into Sunni terrorist propaganda

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