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In the Name of God بسم الله

Are Trinitarians Doomed To Hell In Islam?

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Allah is the judge and He knows what is in the hearts of the people. It's not our judgment to make. However, the Qur'an says that there is only one sin that God will not forgive, and that is associating partners with Him. That is consistent with Shema Yisrael, "Hear, O Israel: the LORD is our God, the LORD is one," (Deuteronomy). Jesus reaffirms this in Matthew with "The Greatest Commandment". Monotheism is the core basis of Islam, and its corruption or abandonment is disbelief of the highest order.

There are people who did not hear the message, whom Allah will forgive inshaAllah, and that applies to many people throughout history. That could mean that many of those who committed some shirk are forgiven, so long that they were sincere in seeking the truth and did not find it. But in today's world, Islam is everywhere and can be sought and understood by most people.

Christians must return to the pure monotheism of the prophets, that is to affirm that God is One, indivisible, with no partners who share His qualities, and unlike His creation. This is a monotheism that can be affirmed and understood even without a Bible or Qur'an; say if you were under a tree on an island somewhere, thinking about how the universe came into being and who sustains it. Allah has put monotheism into our hearts and many evidences affirm this. On the other hand, the trinities of Christianity and Hinduism can be understood only by a book or preacher, not by our innate logic and intuition.

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Bro, all you got to do is research....Dont just ask questions on hear before you havnt even looked into it.

http://www.al-islam.org/faith_reason/

Question: We know of many people around the world who are not Muslims or Shi`a but are nevertheless individuals of good conduct; for example, non-Muslims are responsible for many inventions. Is it right that they all deserve to be punished in Hell because they are not Muslims?

Detailed Answer

Islam is a simple and accessible religion and it is easy to find out its truthfulness by means of the two guiding authorities that have been given to mankind: the ‘outer’ guiding authority, that is, Allah’s prophets and saints, and the ‘inner’ one, that is, the intellect.[152]

Islam is in complete opposition to the concept of religious pluralism because this concept is based on the principle that different beliefs are equal and that Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews etc. all have the same rank and status. According to religious pluralism, no proof exists for the invalidity of any belief because the truth is unattainable and religion is a relative and completely personal affair. Not only are its truths and real substance unattainable and every person takes from it whatever he or she personally understands, but furthermore, there are numerous truths and many correct paths to salvation and deliverance.

Such views are inconsistent with the religion of Islam, which is comprised of a set of fundamental beliefs and practical, legal and ethical laws and principles. Islam does however give concessions to those who are far from its reality. This can be better understood when we consider that there are two groups of people who do not believe in Islam:

1. Those who are termed ‘Jahil-e-Muqassir’ (lit. ‘culpable ignorant’) and who are obstinate non-believers. That is, Islam has reached them and they have understood its truthfulness; however, they are not prepared to accept the truth due to their obstinacy and stubbornness. This group of non-believers deserves to be punished in Hell because despite having known the truth, they have chosen with their own free will to reject Islam. These non-believers, even though they may be of good conduct, could have attained salvation but instead have closed the path to salvation themselves as they have covered the truth and are rebellious and obstinate in relation to it. As a result, they have chosen their own predicament.

2. Those who are termed ‘Jahil-e-Qasir’ (lit. ‘inculpable ignorant’). These are non-believers to whom the message of Islam has not reached, or it has been presented to them in a very incomplete and untruthful manner; so for example, they think that Islam has the same status and rank as the religions of India and China and at the most, Judaism and Christianity. This group of non-believers, whether they live in the most remote parts of the world or in the most civilized, will not be subject to the punishments of Hell because they are not blameworthy for their lack of belief, and punishment is only for blameworthy sinners.

Unfortunately, there is so much propaganda against Islam that free thinking and seeking the truth has been taken away from many people in a way that they cannot distinguish truth from falsehood. The fact is that despite making significant material progress, contemporary man has regressed spiritually. The main cause of this is the ‘World Arrogance’—the superpower enemies of Islam—with its propagandist and deceptive media system that in full force tries to change and distort the truth. Therefore, many people, even in the most civilized of places, have remained unaware of the true message of Islam and of the enlivening Ahlul Bayt (ع) school of thought. Worse still, incorrect and unrealistic information about Islam is given to them in a way that a religion of mercy, love and justice is portrayed as a religion of violence, oppression and injustice.

In conclusion, from the point of view of Islam, those who have not heard about the true message of Islam and are not blameworthy with regard to this will attain salvation if they are truthful to their own religion. This religion must be based on the ‘fitrah’[153]—man’s primordial, innate nature—and so the followers of such a religion, for example, abstain from lying and committing crimes against humanity. This rule is also applicable to the Ahlus Sunnah to whom the truthfulness of Shi’aism has not been explained correctly.

Notes:

[152]al-Kafi, v.1, p.25, no. 22

Fitrah:
Allah
says in the Qur`an,
“The divine nature by which
Allah
has created mankind”
(30:30). Therefore, the
fitrah
in every person is the root of all spiritual matters and goodness. Imam Rida (ع) has said,
“And it is by means of the fitrah that His proof is substantiated”
(
al-Saduq, al-Tawhid
, pg. 35. That is, whatever
Allah
has as argumentation is of no use without the
fitrah
. By this explanation, it becomes evident why in the terminology of Islamic philosophers and theologians the
fitrah
is referred to as the origin of all spiritual matters and goodness, in contrast to
tabi’ah
(nature), which is referred to as the origin of all material and instinctive matters. Man is a being of free will that continuously chooses the path of the
fitrah
or the way of
tabi’ah
, and it is with this free will that he determines his life in the Hereafter, as indicated in the famous
hadith:
The World is a plantation for the Hereafter.
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I suppose one must ask the question of whether or not Trinitarianism is polytheism or monotheism. I'm inclined to say it's the latter and even in esoteric Islam there is an intense focus on the spiritual significance of the number three, especially in relation to Allah, Muhammad and Ali and the sense of oneness that exists between them.

Fundamentally speaking, I don't think "Trinitarianism," and the concept of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost contradicts Islam in and of itself, but I do believe that certain understandings of the Trinity compromise the monotheism of both Christianity and Islam and can make it superficial at best, but it still would fall under a category of monotheistic belief regardless. I don't think the Quran is refuting the Trinity so much as it is refuting how some people had come to understand it.

And I think God rewards everybody based on their good and bad deeds and doesn't just remove the credit for all their good deeds because they are ignorant or don't accept a few historical facts.

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I suppose one must ask the question of whether or not Trinitarianism is polytheism or monotheism. I'm inclined to say it's the latter and even in esoteric Islam there is an intense focus on the spiritual significance of the number three, especially in relation to Allah, Muhammad and Ali and the sense of oneness that exists between them.

Fundamentally speaking, I don't think "Trinitarianism," and the concept of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost contradicts Islam in and of itself, but I do believe that certain understandings of the Trinity compromise the monotheism of both Christianity and Islam and can make it superficial at best, but it still would fall under a category of monotheistic belief regardless. I don't think the Quran is refuting the Trinity so much as it is refuting how some people had come to understand it.

And I think God rewards everybody based on their good and bad deeds and doesn't just remove the credit for all their good deeds because they are ignorant or don't accept a few historical facts.

Islam fully contradicts the idea that God has an eternally begotten son and an eternally proceeding Spirit from Him (both) seperate from the universe.

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Islam fully contradicts the idea that God has an eternally begotten son and an eternally proceeding Spirit from Him (both) seperate from the universe.

You are right, but this isn't the only way to understand the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Islam doesn't accept the idea of God existing as three persona in one, but it does accept the idea of God working and manifesting his transcendent glory through various modes and emanations. The Holy Prophet, of course, being one of them.

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You are right, but this isn't the only way to understand the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Islam doesn't accept the idea of God existing as three persona in one, but it does accept the idea of God working and manifesting his transcendent glory through various modes and emanations. The Holy Prophet, of course, being one of them.

Pantheism? Isnt that sufism?

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You are right, but this isn't the only way to understand the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Islam doesn't accept the idea of God existing as three persona in one, but it does accept the idea of God working and manifesting his transcendent glory through various modes and emanations. The Holy Prophet, of course, being one of them.

In that respect every existing thing is his emanation. Why only Prophet?

We have nothing in this universe which has not created by God.

Edited by Peace lover
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In that respect every existing thing is his emanation. Why only Prophet?

We have nothing in this universe which has not created by God.

Indeed, everything is God's emanation. However, some manifest this reality more strongly than others. Nothing manifests the reality and the greatest name of God more than the prophet (s), who is the first vicegerent (khalifa) and the closest creation to God.

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Pantheism? Isnt that sufism?

Pantheism is the idea of everything "being God," generally in respect to nature. The idea I'm speaking of is more along the lines of emanationism, which does not necessarily have anything to do with pantheism or Sufism for that matter, although Sufi schools focus a lot on the concept of emanations. Typical modern ideas of pantheism tend to deal with the idea of "God" being a metaphor for the natural world. What I'm speaking of has more to do with the idea of Panentheism or "God in everything," if you will, but I'm not certain if this term is accurate either.

The universe is essentially a multiverse of various planes made up of different worlds, "layered" on top of one another. As you peel back the layers from the lowest to the highest, you eventually get to the transcendent primordial principle who is the source of all being and above all things. This is Allah. But from God is reflected the various attributes, within which things are created.by his will and permission, and through which he is reflected. These are the emanations. The greatest of the emanations, of course, are Muhammad and Ali, peace upon them both, and they are the ones through which God has created all things.

In that respect every existing thing is his emanation. Why only Prophet?

We have nothing in this universe which has not created by God.

Things are created through the emanations and come to dwell within them, but are not necessarily the emanations themselves just as the emanations are reflections of God and manifest his presence, but are not God themselves. The word "emanation" I'm using is referring more to something that is emitted or issues forth more or less as it is, rather than something crafted from "parts." Emanations are created in one sense while we our bodies and the world we live in is created in another.

The world we live in I'd say exists on the fringes of God's emanations, closer to the outer darkness beyond them and thus this world is much more a prison filled with all sorts of unclean things, but the light of God's purest emanations shines through it, showing us the way we might come to dwell within them more fully. These sparks and rays of light that shine through are of course the saints and prophets as well as the things of this world that are more clean and ritually pure by their nature than others.

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Regarding the trinity;

Why would anyone make up a thing so hard to understand?

Obviously even the early trinity ideas must have some basis in truth or people would not have these ideas.

As put forth by the scholar Craig Evans;

"It was the Trinity doctrine which gave rise to the variant in the Gospel account... not the other way around. Had the perception not existed there would have been no need to write it in. It was considered an important enough part of the perception of Jesus to present it in a clear fashion."

As Evans says: It is foolishness to act as though the church made up the Gospels "as if there were no eyewitnesses present to check such fabrication."

As saintly_Jinn has said;

"even in esoteric Islam there is an intense focus on the spiritual significance of the number three"

I agree, I see this significance in everything.

I don't think in the end it will matter if we believed in a trinity or not, but whether we believed in Jesus... that He was sent as a sacrifice for our salvation and that he was resurrected to be with the Father.

I think what will matter to God is whether or not we believed and lived according to the teaching of Jesus.

Edited by CLynn
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Bro, all you got to do is research....Dont just ask questions on hear before you havnt even looked into it.

http://www.al-islam.org/faith_reason/

Question: We know of many people around the world who are not Muslims or Shi`a but are nevertheless individuals of good conduct; for example, non-Muslims are responsible for many inventions. Is it right that they all deserve to be punished in Hell because they are not Muslims?

Detailed Answer

Islam is a simple and accessible religion and it is easy to find out its truthfulness by means of the two guiding authorities that have been given to mankind: the ‘outer’ guiding authority, that is, Allah’s prophets and saints, and the ‘inner’ one, that is, the intellect.[152]

Islam is in complete opposition to the concept of religious pluralism because this concept is based on the principle that different beliefs are equal and that Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews etc. all have the same rank and status. According to religious pluralism, no proof exists for the invalidity of any belief because the truth is unattainable and religion is a relative and completely personal affair. Not only are its truths and real substance unattainable and every person takes from it whatever he or she personally understands, but furthermore, there are numerous truths and many correct paths to salvation and deliverance.

Such views are inconsistent with the religion of Islam, which is comprised of a set of fundamental beliefs and practical, legal and ethical laws and principles. Islam does however give concessions to those who are far from its reality. This can be better understood when we consider that there are two groups of people who do not believe in Islam:

1. Those who are termed ‘Jahil-e-Muqassir’ (lit. ‘culpable ignorant’) and who are obstinate non-believers. That is, Islam has reached them and they have understood its truthfulness; however, they are not prepared to accept the truth due to their obstinacy and stubbornness. This group of non-believers deserves to be punished in Hell because despite having known the truth, they have chosen with their own free will to reject Islam. These non-believers, even though they may be of good conduct, could have attained salvation but instead have closed the path to salvation themselves as they have covered the truth and are rebellious and obstinate in relation to it. As a result, they have chosen their own predicament.

2. Those who are termed ‘Jahil-e-Qasir’ (lit. ‘inculpable ignorant’). These are non-believers to whom the message of Islam has not reached, or it has been presented to them in a very incomplete and untruthful manner; so for example, they think that Islam has the same status and rank as the religions of India and China and at the most, Judaism and Christianity. This group of non-believers, whether they live in the most remote parts of the world or in the most civilized, will not be subject to the punishments of Hell because they are not blameworthy for their lack of belief, and punishment is only for blameworthy sinners.

Unfortunately, there is so much propaganda against Islam that free thinking and seeking the truth has been taken away from many people in a way that they cannot distinguish truth from falsehood. The fact is that despite making significant material progress, contemporary man has regressed spiritually. The main cause of this is the ‘World Arrogance’—the superpower enemies of Islam—with its propagandist and deceptive media system that in full force tries to change and distort the truth. Therefore, many people, even in the most civilized of places, have remained unaware of the true message of Islam and of the enlivening Ahlul Bayt (ع) school of thought. Worse still, incorrect and unrealistic information about Islam is given to them in a way that a religion of mercy, love and justice is portrayed as a religion of violence, oppression and injustice.

In conclusion, from the point of view of Islam, those who have not heard about the true message of Islam and are not blameworthy with regard to this will attain salvation if they are truthful to their own religion. This religion must be based on the ‘fitrah’[153]—man’s primordial, innate nature—and so the followers of such a religion, for example, abstain from lying and committing crimes against humanity. This rule is also applicable to the Ahlus Sunnah to whom the truthfulness of Shi’aism has not been explained correctly.

Notes:

[152]al-Kafi, v.1, p.25, no. 22

Fitrah:
Allah
says in the Qur`an,
“The divine nature by which
Allah
has created mankind”
(30:30). Therefore, the
fitrah
in every person is the root of all spiritual matters and goodness. Imam Rida (ع) has said,
“And it is by means of the fitrah that His proof is substantiated”
(
al-Saduq, al-Tawhid
, pg. 35. That is, whatever
Allah
has as argumentation is of no use without the
fitrah
. By this explanation, it becomes evident why in the terminology of Islamic philosophers and theologians the
fitrah
is referred to as the origin of all spiritual matters and goodness, in contrast to
tabi’ah
(nature), which is referred to as the origin of all material and instinctive matters. Man is a being of free will that continuously chooses the path of the
fitrah
or the way of
tabi’ah
, and it is with this free will that he determines his life in the Hereafter, as indicated in the famous
hadith:
The World is a plantation for the Hereafter.

Looking at the description of Jahil e Qasir most of the world today can fall into this category, the enormous amounts of misunderstandings between the religions lead even good and upright people to have the wrong information so for any of us to say this belief or that belief is a one way ticket to hell is an error since we do not know their intention and that is what Allah ultimately decides upon according to many texts. For example, if you have a pious man or woman whom lives a good life and takes care of the poor and assists orphans and is fair and studies his entire life to learn the truth and still doesn't gain the knowledge that some others have this is a consistent attempt at truth and seeking guidance and therefore isn't punishable because he has tried. Plainly put, this isn't something we should be debating Allahu Alim (only God knows) we do not and to make our determinations based on our limited knowledge or a scholar's opinion or opinions is in itself arrogance since we would be perceiving to know what Allah knows

Edited by NonsectarianMuslim
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Looking at the description of Jahil e Qasir most of the world today can fall into this category, the enormous amounts of misunderstandings between the religions lead even good and upright people to have the wrong information so for any of us to say this belief or that belief is a one way ticket to hell is an error since we do not know their intention and that is what Allah ultimately decides upon according to many texts. For example, if you have a pious man or woman whom lives a good life and takes care of the poor and assists orphans and is fair and studies his entire life to learn the truth and still doesn't gain the knowledge that some others have this is a consistent attempt at truth and seeking guidance and therefore isn't punishable because he has tried. Plainly put, this isn't something we should be debating Allahu Alim (only God knows) we do not and to make our determinations based on our limited knowledge or a scholar's opinion or opinions is in itself arrogance since we would be perceiving to know what Allah knows

I wish you hadn't edited. The rest was good too.

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I felt it was a bit repetitive but thank you

To make determinations on the trinity and whether or not they would be going to hell or not we would have to first understand how each individual Christian understands the trinity wholeheartedly and that is impossible that would be paraphrasing part of the 2nd half

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I felt it was a bit repetitive but thank you

To make determinations on the trinity and whether or not they would be going to hell or not we would have to first understand how each individual Christian understands the trinity wholeheartedly and that is impossible that would be paraphrasing part of the 2nd half

I think you hit the nail on the head.

I found it much easier not to believe in a trinity myself.

Yes, my fear was I would lose all contact with God for being blasphemous, but that didn't happen.

Even while trying to wrap my head around trinity I still knew there was one God, so did everybody in the various churches I attended.

My feeling is that while Christians are taught trinity vs blasphemy, it's not always comprehensive enough by their explanations and always remains a question in the back of their head. It's not something you can talk about in the church either, so we'll go with the explanations we got. That or be blasphemous...boot.

This Father/Son thing is so over-rated. Jesus calls God Father, (so do I, Jesus said I could.) Every mention includes, "who is in heaven". "Our Father, who art in heaven..." Every Christian sees that.

I saw so many breakdowns of the trinity structure. God was God, Jesus and Holy Spirit seemed to be secondary, although they are all one and equal. One picture's round, another is a triangle, then there's fancier diagrams, some show three, some show a joining which makes it look more like four.

Yeah, may as well draw your own.

Christians see that too.

All scriptures speak of the heirarchy of beings God has created, from The Word, The Spirit, a list of Archangels, assorted angels, etc. They were created to do as God wills, not as an audience while God branches out and does it all by Himself.

If you could get into the heart of each Christian to see what they really believe you'd come back with many ideas, but not many would lead you to believe it as poligamy, parts, nor partners. There's still only one God.

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If you could get into the heart of each Christian to see what they really believe you'd come back with many ideas, but not many would lead you to believe it as poligamy, parts, nor partners. There's still only one God.

I think you meant polytheism? ;)

Edited by CLynn
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I think you hit the nail on the head.

I found it much easier not to believe in a trinity myself.

Yes, my fear was I would lose all contact with God for being blasphemous, but that didn't happen.

Even while trying to wrap my head around trinity I still knew there was one God, so did everybody in the various churches I attended.

My feeling is that while Christians are taught trinity vs blasphemy, it's not always comprehensive enough by their explanations and always remains a question in the back of their head. It's not something you can talk about in the church either, so we'll go with the explanations we got. That or be blasphemous...boot.

This Father/Son thing is so over-rated. Jesus calls God Father, (so do I, Jesus said I could.) Every mention includes, "who is in heaven". "Our Father, who art in heaven..." Every Christian sees that.

I saw so many breakdowns of the trinity structure. God was God, Jesus and Holy Spirit seemed to be secondary, although they are all one and equal. One picture's round, another is a triangle, then there's fancier diagrams, some show three, some show a joining which makes it look more like four.

Yeah, may as well draw your own.

Christians see that too.

All scriptures speak of the heirarchy of beings God has created, from The Word, The Spirit, a list of Archangels, assorted angels, etc. They were created to do as God wills, not as an audience while God branches out and does it all by Himself.

If you could get into the heart of each Christian to see what they really believe you'd come back with many ideas, but not many would lead you to believe it as poligamy, parts, nor partners. There's still only one God.

i dont get why ur god would send us to hell if we havnt accepted jesus as our savior, or why we have to be punished for someone elses sin, or why every beautiful pure innocent babies that are born are born damned and sinful.

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If you say that Jesus came to straighten out the Jews,

and I follow what Jesus taught,

then how am I not a believer?

Why would God send me to hell?

If I am mistaken somehow in my beliefs about Jesus, I really don't think God is going to hold it against me when I lived according to what Jesus taught.

Whereas, if you are mistaken about Jesus.... do you think God might hold that against you?

and no, I don't believe God would ever condemn the innocent(i.e., babies). How many of us get through this life as innocents? and we all answer for our own sins on judgement day. I have no doubts that not accepting the Truth about Jesus(when it is revealed) will be counted as a sin against God.

Salaam.

Edited by CLynn
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i dont get why ur god would send us to hell if we havnt accepted jesus as our savior, or why we have to be punished for someone elses sin, or why every beautiful pure innocent babies that are born are born damned and sinful.

Yeah, I don't get it either...Not the God I know.

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Yeah, I don't get it either...Not the God I know.

well two days ago I was approached by a christian who condemned Catholics and other christian groups. He told me to accept jesus or i will burn in hell and he told me exactly everything im telling you. Also he did mention we have to accept god as he plans what ever it may be, and that gods plans dont make sense its just faith....he couldnt argue against me so he wished he brought his pastor to talk with me, i said im not trying to prove which is right or wrong i simply wanna learn. He recommended me the first chapter of the new testament.

Edited by pureethics
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well two days ago I was approached by a christian who condemned Catholics and other christian groups. He told me to accept jesus or i will burn in hell and he told me exactly everything im telling you. Also he did mention we have to accept god as he plans what ever it may be, and that gods plans dont make sense its just faith....he couldnt argue against me so he wished he brought his pastor to talk with me, i said im not trying to prove which is right or wrong i simply wanna learn. He recommended me the first chapter of the new testament.

Don't know where you find these guys.

Sounds like some young guy on his first missionary practice run.

The first chapter of the NT is Matt 1:1 and unless you're a geneology buff the begats are likely to bore you.

I must look too saved already or too far gone. I haven't been approached in years.

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Don't know where you find these guys.

Sounds like some young guy on his first missionary practice run.

The first chapter of the NT is Matt 1:1 and unless you're a geneology buff the begats are likely to bore you.

I must look too saved already or too far gone. I haven't been approached in years.

the funny thing was it was on the xbox360 and i love these types of discussions. We went from 9pm till 3am in the morning....

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You kids and your xboxs. I have no understanding the technology. 6 hours with a Christian on a rant and you love it? I love it, lol.

it's a bit dissapointing when they say they will come back with their pastor but they never do. He's on xbox, you can't miss him.

From the sounds of it you thought him sincere. I hope you went easy on him.

Edited by Son of Placid
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