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In the Name of God بسم الله

Imam Khomeini, The Most Charismatic Leader Ever!

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Whats the point? Some n00b keeps opening the same thread with a different name in 2 days anyways. And it's the same [Edited Out] all over again.

Heh, first wilayat al-faqih mutlaq thread I've ever participated in on here, and I learned my lesson too. I have better things to do with my life than to antagonize fellow Shias and have heart attacks in the process.

Can't you just block the IP?

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This thread has turned very nasty.

and im sat here thinking why wahabis say Shias give non-human characteristic to humans........

(bismillah) (salam) For some reason, Shee'ahs just love to indulge in Ghulloow, most choose to do it with our A'ima [as], and now some are doing it with our scholars. Crash and burn Imaamis, crash a

Their foreign policy is not so great either. They hate some of the western government. But they love all the non western dictators and despots except Saddam Hussein. No one knows what Iran is doing with the Syrian dictator. They are obsessed about the nasibi Palestinians who seems to be oppressed. But they never have the time of day for other oppressed people of the world like Pakistanis or Indonesians. They don't even care about their closest neighbor, the Bahrani Shias. This is just the negative aspect of their foreign policy.

i have to disagree here. they definitely are not on good terms "all non western dictators except Saddam" .. that's not true. just one example is Egypt, where they cut relations from 1979 until last year. other examples are Saudi, which is definitely not a friendly relationship.

I think that they are against Zionists and whoever supports them, while being with anybody who doesn't. i would also think that it's a bit harsh to say they don't care about Pakistan. It's just logical that they can't save all the shias of the world at this point. they have to keep their focus, which is their enemies. Also, they support any shias in the world that actually rise up in any way, like hezb Allah and Huthis. i'm sure that if in pakistan the shias start to defend themselves, they'll get all the support they need. but iranians can't just go an occupy pakistan. that makes sense. we have to be fair :) and the bahrainis are actually an american state. to go and start a war with them is strategically much like starting a war with zionist occupiers. it's politically quite impossible for them to save all the shias at this point. they are laying a foundation for that in sha Allah. and they will hopefully spearhead it hopefully. am hoping this is the end of corruption on earth . honestly if it isn't i pray to Allah that He takes my soul right now, because i don't want to live in a world where there is no hope.

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I don't want to insult you brother/sister peace seeker, but most of your replies are based on blind faith, not reason, which is not Shia Islam.

that's your opinion. just like every other person who believes they are right. don't you think you are right? well i do too. and soon we will know who is right in front of Allah swt

and Robin Hood, i'm a brother & if that's how it goes. some people see the truth while others don't . the ones who don't also think that the ones who do are blind. so there is no way to prove 100% who is right at this point. patience will have to reveal these answers with time. we will all have to wait and see if this is the rise of justice on earth for real. we should all be praying that it is, for the sake of humanity.

tumblr_mi2t5y8AIF1r5j4y2o1_500.jpg

isn't this against the site rules??

i say this in all honesty. i respect this man so much, that i will leave this forum if people continue to abuse him. this is unacceptable for me and really upsets me more than i can take.

thank you

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ok sister, i'll defend him here, even though i don't know how much scholarly experience he has. because he has other very important experience, such as fighting in the war defending his country, as well as being one of the closest people to his predecessor. So it's like a person who doesn't have a college degree, but still might be good at running a business. From the way he talks, i get very inspired, and he's one of the few people out there that i can truly look up to. when you read his statements posted by sister Hameedeh so kindly, do you like what he says? personally he's the most intelligent and perfect leader i've seen on this earth, judging from what he says. There is no politician active today who can compete in think.

You are not the only IRI supporters who don't know Khamenei's scholarly qualification. I guess most of his supporters and non supporters don't quite know what sort of qualification or quality he posses to become Khomeini's successor.

His qualifications seems to be a closely held secret. Did he reach the level of marjayat or did he not? If he did, then when exactly did he received it? Was some politics or arm twisting involved?

If you read Khomeini's original work, Hukumah al-Islamiyyah, he had a section about ruling by Shia Islamic scholars (Faqih/Fuqaha). He especially emphasize a group of people who narrates the tradition of ahl al bayt. And he expanded this to cover the jurist. We have a lot of jurists. What would make one jurist more special than the next one if everyone posses the same set of qualification or attribute?

What is problematic here, is that Khamenei didn't even pass the first stage; the qualification.

You can't use the college degree analogy here. People who don't have college/university degree don't become doctor and get to operate on people. It doesn't matter if he was good at running business or not. You have to meet the basic qualification of the Faqih.

Edited by Gypsy
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You are not the only IRI supporters who don't know Khamenei's scholarly qualification. I guess most of his supporters and non supporters don't quite know what sort of qualification or quality he posses to become Khomeini's successor.

His qualifications seems to be a closely held secret. Did he reach the level of marjayat or did he not? If he did, then when exactly did he received it? Was some politics or arm twisting involved?

If you read Khomeini's original work, Hukumah al-Islamiyyah, he had a section about ruling by Shia Islamic scholars (Faqih/Fuqaha). He especially emphasize a group of people who narrates the tradition of ahl al bayt. And he expanded this to cover the jurist. We have a lot of jurists. What would make one jurist more special than the next one if everyone posses the same set of qualification or attribute?

What is problematic here, is that Khamenei didn't even pass the first stage; the qualification.

You can't use the college degree analogy here. People who don't have college/university degree don't become doctor and get to operate on people. It doesn't matter if he was good at running business or not. You have to meet the basic qualification of the Faqih.

but people who don't have college degrees can become great leaders, which does not need detailed technical skills. (example Steve Jobs)

from what i've heard him say, and how he runs the country since 1989, i personally believe he did a great job. (and hopefully the best is still to come ) i read what he says, and it sounds great. And he was very close to Imam Khomenei i believe.

i know many people for instance love imam khomeini but don't like imam khamenei for instance. but as long as imam Khamenei didn't do anything majorly wrong, i don't see a problem. especially that i see he did a lot of right. I just wish lots of stability and prosperity for this government, and as long as intentions are right, everything should be ok. i think that both leaders have / had good intentions. that's all that counts. and today iran is the only country standing up. there is more to praise than to complain about i believe. this is wonderful and brave and heroic mashaAllah. 34 years of standing against zionists and neo colonialists? that's something worth a lot of praise in itself. ma sha Allah.

the credentials and bureaucracy isn't a reason to start a new unislamic revolution to have a non-shia government, which would hypothetically cost many many thousands of lives and suffering without an end. Allah forbid! better hope this is the groundwork for the Qaym. in sha Allah

No, it's Syed al-Khomeini saying that he actually overthrew a tyrant (Pahlavi) whilst others do nothing but curse tyrants.

well in that case i'm sorry

my bad!

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but people who don't have college degrees can become great leaders, which does not need detailed technical skills. (example Steve Jobs)

from what i've heard him say, and how he runs the country since 1989, i personally believe he did a great job. (and hopefully the best is still to come ) i read what he says, and it sounds great. And he was very close to Imam Khomenei i believe.

What you just said is completly contradictory to the Wilayah al Faqih system. Khomeini didn't believe that you can run a government if you are not a Shia cleric. He strongly emphasize on the "cleric/Faqih" part.

See, you keep on defending Khomeini political system. But at the end of the day, you admitted people like Steve Jobs without formal education can become a good leader. All you are interested in is in the personality of Khamenei. You are going to defend him no matter if he is qualified or not qualified because you are already sold on the idea of the Iranian political system.

I on the other hand, don't believe in the Wilayah al Faqih system or even Khamenei being a good effective leader.

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You are not the only IRI supporters who don't know Khamenei's scholarly qualification. I guess most of his supporters and non supporters don't quite know what sort of qualification or quality he posses to become Khomeini's successor.

His qualifications seems to be a closely held secret. Did he reach the level of marjayat or did he not? If he did, then when exactly did he received it? Was some politics or arm twisting involved?

He might be one of the IRI supporters who don't know his Qualifications, but neither do you, proven from what you write. He was a mujtahid, and they made him a marja when he became WF. The only rule they changed in the constitution was that the leader should be a marja. A point Ayat.Khomeini didn't agree with anyways.

If you read Khomeini's original work, Hukumah al-Islamiyyah, he had a section about ruling by Shia Islamic scholars (Faqih/Fuqaha). He especially emphasize a group of people who narrates the tradition of ahl al bayt. And he expanded this to cover the jurist. We have a lot of jurists. What would make one jurist more special than the next one if everyone posses the same set of qualification or attribute?

From the same book which you quoted to your liking:

The two qualities of knowledge of the law and justice are present in countless fuqahā of the present age. If they come together, they could establish a government of universal justice in the world.

If a worthy individual possessing these two qualities arises and establishes a government, he will posses the same authority as the Most Noble Messenger (‘a) in the administration of society, and it will be the duty of all people to obey him.

The idea that the governmental power of the Most Noble Messenger (s) were greater than those of the Commander of the Faithful (‘a), or that those of the Commander of the Faithful (‘a) were greater than those of the faqīh, is false and erroneous. Naturally, the virtues of the Most Noble Messenger (s) were greater than those of the rest of mankind, and after him, the Commander of the Faithful was the most virtuous person in the world. But superiority with respect to spiritual virtues does not confer increased governmental powers. God has conferred upon government in the present age the same powers and authority that were held by the Most Noble Messenger and the Imāms (‘a), with respect to equipping and mobilizing armies, appointing governors and officials, and levying taxes and expending them for the welfare of the Muslims. Now, however, it is no longer a question of a particular person; government devolves instead upon one who possesses the qualities of knowledge and justice.

This is from the constitution:

Article 109

Following are the essential qualifications and conditions for the Leader:

a. scholarship, as required for performing the functions of mufti in

different fields of fiqh.

b. Justice and piety, as required for the leadership of the Islamic Ummah.

c. right political and social perspicacity, prudence, courage, administrative

facilities and adequate capability for leadership.

In case of multiplicity of persons fulfilling the above qualifications and conditions, the

person possessing the better jurisprudential and political perspicacity will be given

preference.

Article 110

Following are the duties and powers of the Leadership:

1. Delineation of the general policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran after

consultation with the Nation's Exigency Council.

2. Supervision over the proper execution of the general policies of the

system.

3. Issuing decrees for national referenda.

4. Assuming supreme command of the armed forces.

5. Declaration of war and peace, and the mobilization of the armed forces.

6. Appointment, dismissal, and acceptance of resignation of:

a. the fuqaha' on the Guardian Council.

b. the supreme judicial authority of the country.

c. the head of the radio and television network of the

Islamic Republic of Iran.

d. the chief of the joint staff.

e. the chief commander of the Islamic Revolution Guards

Corps. f. the supreme commanders of the armed forces.

7. Resolving differences between the three wings of the armed forces and

regulation of their relations.

8. Resolving the problems, which cannot be solved by conventional

methods, through the Nation's Exigency Council.

9. Signing the decree formalizing the election of the President of the

Republic by the people. The suitability of candidates for the Presidency of

the Republic, with respect to the qualifications specified in the

Constitution, must be confirmed before elections take place by the

Guardian Council; and, in the case of the first term [of the Presidency], by

the Leadership;

10. Dismissal of the' President of the Republic, with due regard for the

interests of the country, after the Supreme Court holds him guilty of the

violation of his constitutional duties, or after a vote of the Islamic

Consultative Assembly testifying to his incompetence on the basis of

Article 89 of the Constitution.

11. Pardoning or reducing the sentences of convicts, within the framework

of Islamic criteria, on a recommendation [to that effect] from the Head of

judicial power.

The Leader may delegate part of his duties and powers to another person.

Name me one Scholar that can do all this well, and i'll go belly up for you.

What is problematic here, is that Khamenei didn't even pass the first stage; the qualification.

That is fortunatley not up to you to decide, but the Assembly of Experts. Lest you call all of them traitors and liars.

Article 111

Whenever the Leader becomes incapable of fulfilling his constitutional duties, or lobs

one of the qualifications mentioned in Articles 5 and 109, or it becomes known that he

did not possess some of the qualifications initially, he will be dismissed. The authority of

determination in this matter is vested with the experts specified in Article 108. In the

event of the death, or resignation or dismissal of the Leader, the experts shall take steps

within the shortest possible time for the appointment of the new Leader. Till the

appointment of the new Leader, a council consisting of the President, head of the judicial

power, and a faqih from the Guardian Council, upon the decision of the Nation's

Exigency Council, shall temporarily take over all the duties of the Leader. In the event,

during this period, any one of them is unable to fulfill his duties for whatsoever reason,

another person, upon the decision of majority of fuqaha' in the Nation's Exigency Council

shall be elected in his place. This council shall take action in respect of items 1,3,5, and

10, and sections d, e and f of item 6 of Article 110, upon the decision of three-fourths of

the members of the Nation's Exigency Council. Whenever the Leader becomes

temporarily unable to perform the duties of leadership owing to his illness or any other

incident, then during this period, the council mentioned in this Article shall assume his

duties.

You can't use the college degree analogy here. People who don't have college/university degree don't become doctor and get to operate on people. It doesn't matter if he was good at running business or not. You have to meet the basic qualification of the Faqih.

Again, you are in no position to tell us which faqih has the level required and which doesn't. Ulamas disagree on this, let it be at that level.

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Peace seeker, politics is not about intentions, it is about results. My grandmother might very well be the most loving, compassionate, humble and well intentioned woman on earth, but I would be the first to vote her out of a proposed system which is inherently oppressive and corrupt, despite her good intentions.

Secondly, the fact that Iran has been independent and defiant in the face of western imperialism is commendable, but it should not in anyway dispel criticism of very serious internal problems. Through this entire period post the revolution of Iranian independence, the ruling clergy has lived pretty comfortably, since they are the ones in power, it is the masses of Iranian people, mostly at the bottom, that have had to bear the brunt of economic strife, as a result of sanctions or incompetent administration, or prolonged wars.

You cannot ignore the crimes of any establishment, or their immoral policies by using lame excuses such as: "Oh well they mean well", "They are shia scholars, and hence the best of men", "we cannot afford a divided Iran because the imperialist would exploit it, so whatever harsh, immoral measures the government implements are justified" , "there is no perfect government till the imam comes, this is the best we have", another classic one "We should tolerate repression because an uprising would cause more bloodshed" etc etc

Do you realize how senseless it is, that any state can justify the most brutal of crimes against their own population under such pretexts? The obvious thing here is that all of you proponents who throw out these excuses would be the first to oppose such systems were you the ones on the receiving end of immoral, un-accountable practices that countless families have had to live with.

I do agree, that as far as political leadership goes, professional qualification is irrelevant.

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What you just said is completly contradictory to the Wilayah al Faqih system. Khomeini didn't believe that you can run a government if you are not a Shia cleric. He strongly emphasize on the "cleric/Faqih" part.

See, you keep on defending Khomeini political system. But at the end of the day, you admitted people like Steve Jobs without formal education can become a good leader. All you are interested in is in the personality of Khamenei. You are going to defend him no matter if he is qualified or not qualified because you are already sold on the idea of the Iranian political system.

I on the other hand, don't believe in the Wilayah al Faqih system or even Khamenei being a good effective leader.

sister Gypsy, i trust that whatever is going on, it's the only right movement on earth. i'm not God to know the answers to all questions. brother Repenter knows more about the details for instance of the WF. for me its a government of real muslims abiding by the clear cut Islamic principles, known to all (not just muslims). so far it has worked. the only way i will change my mind, is if i see the leader (ra) become corrupt or bow down to satanic forces Allah forbid. other than that i support the whole motion and Iran is in good hands with this man. after reading many statements by many people, from all walks, i see this man as the wisest leader on earth. for me that is all that i need to believe.

standing up to the world tyranny, and his speeches are like that of a living legend mashaAllah. i am privileged to be living in a era where there is somebody who talks and acts this way as a major leader on earth. alhamdulilah. whom can we compare him with? only his predecessor and i pray that he surpasses him soon in sha Allah. there is lots of work to do for the Nasr of Allah.

hope that my almost childish hope isn't annoying you, but i respect anybody who fights for their rights and stands up to oppression.

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He might be one of the IRI supporters who don't know his Qualifications, but neither do you, proven from what you write. He was a mujtahid, and they made him a marja when he became WF. The only rule they changed in the constitution was that the leader should be a marja. A point Ayat.Khomeini didn't agree with anyways.

Why did they make Khamenei a marja? If he was not qualified for marjayat then he wasn't qualified to become a marja.

See, this is another hole in Khomeini's political system. He wanted to make Wilayah al Faqih something similar to Usoolism. But Usoolism is not based on following/doing taqlid on a mid ranking or least qualified scholar.

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What is incredibly sad is that the regimes rely on such emotional and irrational support, without which they would not be able to carry out their immoral practices. If you are an Iranian citizen, you bear in part the responsibility for all the serious moral wrong doings of the people you so blindly support, so its not a trivial matter, because without you, they would not be able to get away with it. If you were to spend half as much time being critical of your leaders as you do revering or being in awe of them, it would make for a far more civilized society.

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Peace seeker, politics is not about intentions, it is about results. My grandmother might very well be the most loving, compassionate, humble and well intentioned woman on earth, but I would be the first to vote her out of a proposed system which is inherently oppressive and corrupt, despite her good intentions.

Secondly, the fact that Iran has been independent and defiant in the face of western imperialism is commendable, but it should not in anyway dispel criticism of very serious internal problems. Through this entire period post the revolution of Iranian independence, the ruling clergy has lived pretty comfortably, since they are the ones in power, it is the masses of Iranian people, mostly at the bottom, that have had to bear the brunt of economic strife, as a result of sanctions or incompetent administration, or prolonged wars.

You cannot ignore the crimes of any establishment, or their immoral policies by using lame excuses such as: "Oh well they mean well", "They are shia scholars, and hence the best of men", "we cannot afford a divided Iran because the imperialist would exploit it, so whatever harsh, immoral measures the government implements are justified" , "there is no perfect government till the imam comes, this is the best we have", another classic one "We should tolerate repression because an uprising would cause more bloodshed" etc etc

Do you realize how senseless it is, that any state can justify the most brutal of crimes against their own population under such pretexts? The obvious thing here is that all of you proponents who throw out these excuses would be the first to oppose such systems were you the ones on the receiving end of immoral, un-accountable practices that countless families have had to live with.

I do agree, that as far as political leadership goes, professional qualification is irrelevant.

politics is not about intentions, it is about results.

no and yes. intentions is everything. if this leader has good islamic intentions, then praise the LORD !!! and results??? well i see plenty. like being the leader of the honest and straight resistance to world tyranny. that's worth more than anything worldly. and i understand that a lot of people envy them for this position.

Secondly, the fact that Iran has been independent and defiant in the face of western imperialism is commendable

yes! that is islamically all that counts. a country that doesn't worship other than God !!! let's delve on this! let's focus on this !! let think of this !! let's learn from them .. let's build our hope on this result ..

it should not in anyway dispel criticism of very serious internal problems

definitely this regime can not survive without criticism, especially of other muslims. but one has to give open hearted criticism i believe. first acknowledge they great unique amazing islamic accomplishments. subhan Allah ! alhamdulilah !

Through this entire period post the revolution of Iranian independence, the ruling clergy has lived pretty comfortably, since they are the ones in power, it is the masses of Iranian people, mostly at the bottom, that have had to bear the brunt of economic strife, as a result of sanctions or incompetent administration, or prolonged wars.

well from seeing Ahmedinejads old white peugeot and lifestyle of Imam Khomeini in his rented house, i think it's very humble. and if anybody is to be islamically upper class, it should be the scholars, just like ahl bayt has ordered us. there has to be rich and poor. and im sure there are many non scholars who are rich, while there are scholars that are poor. those are material worldly issues.

You cannot ignore the crimes of any establishment, or their immoral policies by using lame excuses such as: "Oh well they mean well"

everything is intentions! if the guy is a true believing muslim, then thank God that there is at least one country on earth that has an official islamic leader not doing taqya to his islamic beliefs (like many world leaders im sure)

"They are shia scholars, and hence the best of men", "we cannot afford a divided Iran because the imperialist would exploit it, so whatever harsh, immoral measures the government implements are justified" , "there is no perfect government till the imam comes, this is the best we have", another classic one "We should tolerate repression because an uprising would cause more bloodshed"

everything you said above is true, except tolerating repression. nobody from the leaders tolerated unjust repression for sure! intentionally

The obvious thing here is that all of you proponents who throw out these excuses would be the first to oppose such systems were you the ones on the receiving end of immoral, un-accountable practices that countless families have had to live with.

a criminal person, even if he happens to be employed by government, will still pay the price, as long as the leader isn't intentionally involved. and the victims with intelligence will understand this.

Edited by peace seeker
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Why did they make Khamenei a marja? If he was not qualified for marjayat then he wasn't qualified to become a marja.

See, this is another hole in Khomeini's political system. He wanted to make Wilayah al Faqih something similar to Usoolism. But Usoolism is not based on following/doing taqlid on a mid ranking or least qualified scholar.

He was a Mujtahid, do you even know what actually qualifies one to be a marja?

In very very very simple words, if you are a Mijtahid, and you have enough followers, you can be a marja if you like.....

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What is incredibly sad is that the regimes rely on such emotional and irrational support, without which they would not be able to carry out their immoral practices. If you are an Iranian citizen, you bear in part the responsibility for all the serious moral wrong doings of the people you so blindly support, so its not a trivial matter, because without you, they would not be able to get away with it. If you were to spend half as much time being critical of your leaders as you do revering or being in awe of them, it would make for a far more civilized society.

each and every country has blood on its hands, innocent and guilty.

why try to bring down the only government that stands up to world tyrants? and that has shia scholars running the show? why focus and spend time criticizing them? why not criticise countries that have a million times more blood on their hands not just from ethnic cleansing but from colonialism??

why not look at them and make them favors by pointing out mistakes in the Iranian government? it is a mystery to me.

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He was a Mujtahid, do you even know what actually qualifies one to be a marja?

In very very very simple words, if you are a Mijtahid, and you have enough followers, you can be a marja if you like.....

Let me tell you another glaring hypocrisy from the Iranian Shia scholarship. Khamenei can become a marja but Sanei cannot (http://www.shiachat....nger-qualified/) How come people are punished or rewarded based on their politics?

Self proclaim marjayat are very destructive. Politically motivated marjayat are even more destructive.

Edited by Gypsy
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each and every country has blood on its hands, innocent and guilty.

why try to bring down the only government that stands up to world tyrants? and that has shia scholars running the show? why focus and spend time criticizing them? why not criticise countries that have a million times more blood on their hands not just from ethnic cleansing but from colonialism??

why not look at them and make them favors by pointing out mistakes in the Iranian government? it is a mystery to me.

Bro standing up against tyrants? Russia, North Korea and China are no less tyrants. You are only standing against who Iran thinks is tyrant. Allah azwj does not acknowledge any of these current governments including Iran. Don't understand how being shia makes any falsehood truth

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Let me tell you another glaring hypocrisy from the Iranian Shia scholarship. Khamenei can become a marja but Sanei cannot (http://www.shiachat....nger-qualified/) How come people are punished or rewarded based on their politics?

Self proclaim marjayat are very destructive. Politically motivated marjayat are even more destructive.

It wasn't self proclaimed, jesus get a grip and read what people write to you in responses. It's kind of pointless if you jump around like that.

Saneis case is huge, make a thread about it if you wish. It gets involved in the green movement and everything. BTW, where did you get the idea that Marjas are immune to rulings and law? Just like a doctor can be stripped of his title, lawyer, police, so can a marja.

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Bro standing up against tyrants? Russia, North Korea and China are no less tyrants. You are only standing against who Iran thinks is tyrant. Allah azwj does not acknowledge any of these current governments including Iran. Don't understand how being shia makes any falsehood truth

Bro that's your opinion, and there are shias like myself who see it differently. I fully respect especially Vladimir Putin as well, and the Chinese i respect for many other reasons too. but the iranians are the champions in directly condemning tyranny like real men ma sha Allah. with the leader doing what he is chosen to do. what if your idea of falsehood is actually truth? ever thought of that? or do you have direct contact with Allah swt ?? it sounds like it:

Allah azwj does not acknowledge any of these current governments
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each and every country has blood on its hands, innocent and guilty.

why try to bring down the only government that stands up to world tyrants? and that has shia scholars running the show? why focus and spend time criticizing them? why not criticise countries that have a million times more blood on their hands not just from ethnic cleansing but from colonialism??

why not look at them and make them favors by pointing out mistakes in the Iranian government? it is a mystery to me.

There we go with another lame cop out "everyone has blood on their hands, so Iranians shouldn't hold their regime accountable".

How many people on this forum defend the crimes of the US state? Or Arab states? It is you who is defending, and finding justifications for the crimes of your state, instead of standing up to them. Come back to me when you find me, defending the immoral, and unjust practices of any state on the face of this earth, past or present.

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There we go with another lame cop out "everyone has blood on their hands, so Iranians shouldn't hold their regime accountable".

How many people on this forum defend the crimes of the US state? Or Arab states? It is you who is defending, and finding justifications for the crimes of your state, instead of standing up to them. Come back to me when you find me, defending the immoral, and unjust practices of any state on the face of this earth, past or present.

i am doing my duty of supporting the only Islamic state on earth. and the country that stands up to tyranny, so that we can hopefully have peace and harmony soon in sha Allah.

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Bro standing up against tyrants? Russia, North Korea and China are no less tyrants. You are only standing against who Iran thinks is tyrant. Allah azwj does not acknowledge any of these current governments including Iran. Don't understand how being shia makes any falsehood truth

China, Russia and north Korea aren't trying to invade Iran......they aren't good countries but they aren't at direct war/cold of warm/ with Iran.

Sometimes you use diplomacy, other times, you use harsh politics, sometimes you don't. Whenever you get a phd in geopolitics, you are welcome to share your in depth analysis of how Iran or any country is dealing with their foreign affairs.

And how wonderful of you to tell us what Allah acknowledges and doesn't.

Edited by repenter
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Sirat, i have a question:

why do you call me "Bro" if you believe my fate will be that of bani qurayza for being a "WiFi'er"? do you wish your Bros death or something?

and notice that here you talk about speaking on behalf of Allah azwj .. so it's ok for you to do that?

Now you have a choice . Prove it that khomenei has a nass of appointment and he is speaking on behalf of Allah azwj and we will agree that Wifi'ers won't meet the same end of banu qurayza when the wali comes back..

i think that shows some sever enmity and hatred towards us in general, no?

it's ok if you hate me, because nobody was hated more than the prophets and imams, so alhamdulilah. keep on wishing me to be massacred as much as you want. i wont wish the same for you. may Allah do with you what you deserve

and then you guys come and talk to me about massacres of the IRI ?? come on guys .. find peace within yourselves first in the name of Allah

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BTW, where did you get the idea that Marjas are immune to rulings and law? Just like a doctor can be stripped of his title, lawyer, police, so can a marja.

Who told you that their titles get stripped? You are making marjayat sounds like an employment. Is this specific to Iran?

Is that what happened with Sanei and Montazeri and others like him? When they stop supporting the wilayah al faqih ideology, the Iranian government and became opposition, their titles were stripped away.

Based on some of your explanation/thoughts, I sense that you are naturally attracted to an authoritarian system, regardless it is based on our Shia teaching or not.

Whenever you get a phd in geopolitics, you are welcome to share your in depth analysis of how Iran or any country is dealing with their foreign affairs.

You don't want to use that condescending attitude. Khamenei also doesn't have a PhD in geopolitics. And he gets to decide Iranian foreign affairs!

Edited by Gypsy
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Who told you that their titles get stripped? You are making marjayat sounds like an employment. Is this specific to Iran?

Is that what happened with Sanei and Montazeri and others like him? When they stop supporting the wilayah al faqih ideology, the Iranian government and became opposition, their titles were stripped away.

Based on some of your explanation/thoughts, I sense that you are naturally attracted to an authoritarian system, regardless it is based on our Shia teaching or not.

No one told me, they( many ulamas) did it, and that is the way it is. If the Ulamas in a certain system don't think you are worthy of your title, they take it away. And yes they are employees in the technical term. Where do you think they get their money? They don't work at burger king in the weekends. Again, sanei is a big issue, not just some random marja they removed from the list. Pick up farsi and read about it. Or make a thread and maybe someone will bother to list you the endless issues.

And for your emphasis, the council that declared him is Jame modarresin(Rafsanjani and the gang), which is an opponent to Jame rohaniyat(who are WF supporters). So the council that actually made those charges, are not the biggest supporters of WF in the first place. Again, pick up farsi and read on.

You don't want to use that condescending attitude.

I wasn't talking to you......and i will use whatever tone i like. Apparently, we can say whatever we want on shiachat now, and it is called "criticism".

Khamenei also doesn't have a PhD in geopolitics. And he gets to decide Iranian foreign affairs!

Not good with understanding the meaning behind words are we? That went flying straight above your head.

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I wasn't talking to you......and i will use whatever tone i like. Apparently, we can say whatever we want on shiachat now, and it is called "criticism".

Not good with understanding the meaning behind words are we? That went flying straight above your head.

You are now talking to me.

You effectively told someone on SC to shut-up from criticizing Iranian foreign policies and polities unless/until they have a PhD in geopolitics. Do you have a fascination with PhDs or geopolitics? If someone needs a Phd in whatever to contribute on SC, why don't you emphasize that same qualification on Khamenei? Khamenei doesn't have a Phd in geopolitics but he can run a country and decide Iran's foreign affair?

Edited by Gypsy
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You are now talking to me.

You effectively told someone on SC to shut-up from criticizing Iranian foreign policies and polities unless/until they have a PhD in geopolitics. Do you have a fascination with PhDs or geopolitics? If someone needs a Phd in whatever to contribute on SC, why don't you emphasize that same qualification on Khamenei? Khamenei doesn't have a Phd in geopolitics but he can run a country and decide Iran's foreign affair?

Nice try.... ;)

It was a figure of speech, but im sure you understood that, and now feel silly for commenting on a comment that wasn't directed at you, and keep digging even though you hit rock.

You wan't to keep talking about the phd and geopolitics issue, or are we done with that now?

And as far as his qualifications go. He was in the war as defense commission for the parliament, the president, Deputy Minister of defence and lastly supervisor of the RG. Even though we weren't talking about an actual phd, as you clearly pretend you don't understand, he still surpasses any phd in the field of politics and experience in it.

And since you agree that i am talking to you, why not point to the things I actually wrote to you, instead of jumping to another subject ;)

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And for your emphasis, the council that declared him is Jame modarresin(Rafsanjani and the gang), which is an opponent to Jame rohaniyat(who are WF supporters). So the council that actually made those charges, are not the biggest supporters of WF in the first place. Again, pick up farsi and read on.

I've even seen the video of rafsanjani selecting khamenei. It has been posted on SC once. I think Rafsanjani told the story about how Khomeini preferred Khamenei. Can we even believe in this fantasy? Do you consider Rafsanjani corrupt or not? http://www.shiachat....ran-rafsanjani/

He has quite a reputation with the green revolution and everything. Most people wouldn't even trust such clerics who are politically motivated.

I'm not really seeing much of Shiism here. Just politicians. Is this how Shia political system should be/ look like?

And since you agree that i am talking to you, why not point to the things I actually wrote to you, instead of jumping to another subject ;)

I do read what you wrote. I just think you are overselling your system and the personality of Khamenei.

So far, you have admitted to the fact that Khamenei was upgraded to the position of Marja because he become the leader of Iran. People who are sane would clearly see that this is sheer politics at play.

You think marjayat are decided by their followers. But not in the case of Sanei. Because he clearly doesn't buy into your system.

You also believe marjayat is some form of employement because such titles are routinely stripped away. This only happens in Iran.

I think you don't like some marjas like Sanei and Montazeri who are opponents of this system. When the IRI government doesn't like someone, they are very harsh. As can be noted in the way they treat their opponents.

I'm also not seeing much of Shiism in the political system.

Some of the clerics who are politicians are also not very nice. They are just benefitting from the system.

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Sirat, i have a question:

why do you call me "Bro" if you believe my fate will be that of bani qurayza for being a "WiFi'er"? do you wish your Bros death or something?

and notice that here you talk about speaking on behalf of Allah azwj .. so it's ok for you to do that?

i think that shows some sever enmity and hatred towards us in general, no?

it's ok if you hate me, because nobody was hated more than the prophets and imams, so alhamdulilah. keep on wishing me to be massacred as much as you want. i wont wish the same for you. may Allah do with you what you deserve

and then you guys come and talk to me about massacres of the IRI ?? come on guys .. find peace within yourselves first in the name of Allah

I call you bro as u are either a brother in my belief which u r not and a brother in humanity which u r. And by the way I do not wish any human go to hell that's why I warn you regarding what I know and I know it is as it is due to ahlulbayth a.s making it clear to shias the destiny of different kinds of people.

China, Russia and north Korea aren't trying to invade Iran......they aren't good countries but they aren't at direct war/cold of warm/ with Iran.

Sometimes you use diplomacy, other times, you use harsh politics, sometimes you don't. Whenever you get a phd in geopolitics, you are welcome to share your in depth analysis of how Iran or any country is dealing with their foreign affairs.

And how wonderful of you to tell us what Allah acknowledges and doesn't.

Where should I start? Okay, relationship of a country with another doesn't come under geo politics but international relations. Geo politics means Geographical (geo) allocation of resources (politico) within the country and I learned it in year 9 at school. Relationships of a self proclaimed Islamic country and that too a shia populated country are meaningless when you know that your religion teaches you that if you agree with a killer or if you are silent at an act of tyranny then you are a part of his crime. If you think china , Russia, and north Korea are not at war with Iran so you will be a part of their crime however USA is at war you will leave no stone unturned and suddenly the Islam in you is awakened? If that is the policy then I am sorry to say that it is .....

And Allah azwj doesn't acknowledge a ghair masoom 's obedience on my neck and punish me for my wrong doing. This is against Adl of Allah azwj and I am in this religion because I am obliged to a Masoom a.s and he is merciful and just

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بسم الله و هو الحکیم

السلام علیکم

Have some shame! What's wrong with you! Squabbling and clawing at each other's throats! Discuss and learn to disagree in harmony. Let the shared love of Ahlulbayt (as) mediate between you, and dissolve the barrier which comes up in every disagreement. Disagreement should not translate into enmity or bitterness.

No one can say this is all academic criticism. It's not. Academic criticism lacks emotion. It does not get heated. It merely looks and analyses and discusses, and it is humble. It knows its limits. It is cautious. It does not assert on something which is vague or ambiguous. This entire topic is very vague and very ambiguous. It must be treated with caution. People cannot do takfir on others for their allegiance either way.

If anyone calls another lover of Ahlulbayt (as) deviant, better be sure s/he has a clear mandate in his/her defence in the Court of God on Judgment Day. You do ihtiyaat in your wudhu, but you don't do ihtiyaat in how you treat one another?!

اللهم صل علی محمد و علی اهل بیت محمد

و علیکم السلام

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