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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why Does Iran Persecute Baha'is?

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Sheikh at Tusi in his book says regarding Jihad:

I think you omitted the fact Sheikh Tusi says that a necessary condition is the presence of the Imam?

Anyway, what he says has to come from the Quran or narrations, so if you can bring those... so far the holy Quran and the life of Prophets and Imams shows freedom of religion to me.

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By Iran's logic, Christians should persecute us, because according to them, we follow a false prophet.

In any religious conflict, the minority is almost always labelled as a cult or spy of a rival nation. For 100 years the shia in Afghanistan were deemed as cult followers and spies of Iran. The sunni A

The fact that other persecute minorities doesn't justify Iran doing so.

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I think you omitted the fact Sheikh Tusi says that a necessary condition is the presence of the Imam?

Anyway, what he says has to come from the Quran or narrations, so if you can bring those... so far the holy Quran and the life of Prophets and Imams shows freedom of religion to me.

In initiating Jihad yes, but people were questioning whether even the Imams(as) had this authority or not. They were saying nonsense like Kufr and Shirk is allowed as long as it doesn't bother Islam. When Allah(swt) has revealed numerous times in the Quran that It is he who sent the Prophet with the guidance and religion of truth so that it prevails over all other religion, and fight the disbelievers till the religion is only for Allah, and others.

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In initiating Jihad yes, but people were questioning whether even the Imams(as) had this authority or not. They were saying nonsense like Kufr and Shirk is allowed as long as it doesn't bother Islam. When Allah(swt) has revealed numerous times in the Quran that It is he who sent the Prophet with the guidance and religion of truth so that it prevails over all other religion, and fight the disbelievers till the religion is only for Allah, and others.

Haha, you mean me.

I still think even if they have the 'authority', their whole lives were an example for us in tolerance and patience.

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Haha, you mean me.

I still think even if they have the 'authority', their whole lives were an example for us in tolerance and patience.

Ali keep in mind abdullah isnt saying everyone should be forced to convert, he's saying mushriks should be forced to convert and thats it. His concept of jihad though is absolutely true, however its also true tusi said only an infallible imam can lead a jihad lol.

EDIT: oh and many muslims in the past and present have said anyone can pay jizya, doesnt have to be a guy with a scripture...

Edited by Jahangiram
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OK guys, I think thats enough. I live in Iran and I have lived with Bahais and I have had numerous discussions with them. First of all they are blatant liars who try to portray their fake cult as a peace loving and rational religion. And they really try their best to show that this is their true belief. They do this through numerous lies and by mentioning only the good and humanitarian sayings of their leaders and hiding all the dirty stuff. Poor souls are so brainwashed that most of them don't even know the contradicting and ungly sayings of their leaders.

They are not being persecuted. They are being confined so as to prevent them from spreading their dirty beliefs. And yes an outsider might see this as persecution. But we have endured their kind once (the Babis) and we will not let that happen to us again. I will just mention some of their beliefs here:

The following are the words of Baha'ullah. The reference of each sentence is in red (from their own books). The references are farsi or Arabic since most of these books have not been translated to English on purpose:

"اليوم هر نفسي بر احدي از معرضين من اعلاهم او من ادناهم ذكر انسانيت نمايد، از جميع فيوضات رحماني محروم است؛

"From this day onwards who ever calls those who do not accept me a HUMAN BEING, whether that (opposer) has a high or low status, then he will be deprived of all of Gods blessings."

نوري، حسين علي {بهاءالله}. مجموعه الواح مباركه. قاهره: مطبعه سعاده (ناشر محي الدين صبري كردي)، 1338 ق. ( 1920 م). ص 256

"بايد از معرضين در كل شئون اعراض نماييم و در آني مؤانست و مجالست را جايز ندانيم

"You must keep awy from those who oppose me at all times and not sit with them or bond with them for a single second."

اشراق خاوري، عبدالحميد. مائده آسماني. {تهران}: ملّي مطبوعات امري، 129 بديع. ج 8. مطلب 53 (شجره يابسه لايق نار است)، ص 39

نفوسي كه از امر بديع معرضند از رداء اسميه و صفتيه محروم، و كل از بهائم بين يدي الله محشور و مذكور

"Those souls who do not accept this new order (meaning Bahaism) will not be dressed with names and descriptions (the translation is a little confusing), they will be resurrected before Allah as animals."

نوري، حسين علي {بهاءالله}. بديع. {تهران}: {بي نا}، {بي تا}. ص 213

با نفوس معرض كه اعرا ضشان ظاهر شده معاشرت و تكلم و ملاقات جايز نه

"It is not permissible to live with, speak with, or meet those who do not accept (baha'ism)."

اشراق خاوري، عبدالحميد. مائده آسماني. {تهران}: مؤسسه ملّي مطبوعات امري، 129 بديع. ج 8 مطلب 94 (معاشرت با معرضين جايز نه)، ص

"لعمرالله حزب شيعه از مشركين از قلم اعلي در صحيفه حمرا مذكور و مسطور

"I swear by the age of Allah!!! the Shias are mushriks this has been written down by the pen of (the Bab) in the red manuscript"

اشراق خاوري، عبدالحميد. مائده آسماني. {تهران}: مؤسسه ملّي مطبوعات امري، 129 بديع. ج 4، باب الواح مباركه درباره شيعه، صص 140 و141 .

And it gets worse he says:

"اي احباي خدا، ابر فضل باشيد براي آن كه به خدا و آياتش ايمان آورده، و عذاب حتمي باشيد براي كسي كه به خدا كافر شده و از مشركان است

"Oh lovers of God! Be a cloud of blessings for those who believe in God and his signs and be DEFINITE TORTURE for those who do not believe in Allah and are Mushriks (remember he said the Shias are mushriks)."

نوري، حسين علي {بهاءالله}. مجموعه الواح مباركه. قاهره: مطبعه سعاده (ناشر محي الدين. صبري كردي)، 1338 ق. ( 1920 م). ص 216

"دوستداران من در و جواهر و ما بقي ايشان سنگ ريز ههاي ارض خاكي اند

"Those who love me are jewels and gems and the rest (of the people) are the stones of this soily earth."

"احبائي هم لئالي الامر و من دونهم حصاه الارض": اشراق خاوري، عبدالحميد. مائده آسماني تهران}: مؤسسه ملّي مطبوعات امري، 129 بديع. ج 4، باب مقام احباي الهي، ص 353 . (به نقل از

بهاءالله)

"بگو هركس در قلبش دشمني اين غلام (بهاءالله) را داشته باشد قطعاً شيطان در بستر مادرش رفته است

"He who has enmity towards this servant (meaning Baha'ullah) then surely the satan has slept with his mother."

Meaning if you hate Bah'ullah you are a [Edited Out] and your father is the Devil.

"قل من كان في قلبه بغض هذا الغلام (بهاء) فقد دخل الشيطان علي فراش امه": اشراق خاوري،

. عبدالحميد. گنج شايگان. {بي جا}: مؤسسه ملي مطبوعات امري، 124 بديع. ص 79

Now if you can tolerate these people in your country who are acting like lambs because they have no power yet, then we will be very happy to hand them over to you. We have already experienced what miseries and wars their forefathers (the followers of the Bab brought to our country) and we don't want that to be repeated again. Call it persecution, blah blah, or whatever you want. If you feel sorry for them take them out of our country, we don't need them and we are currently tolerating them for a greater sake. Just remember they view us as mushriks and [Edited Out]s who can not be called humans, our father is the devil, we are merely stones, no one can meet with us or speak with us, we will be resurrected as animals, and the Bahais must be definite torture for us.

I feel so sorry for you that you had to make up these writings of the Bahai faith and i know for a fact that they are made up. This saddens me to see, and i pray for you that you one day learn the true meaning of the Bahai faith.

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For those of you who say that we must invite all Kafirs to Islam, and if they refuse, we should kill them, please read Surah al Kafiroon.

 

Surah Al Kafiroon does NOT say:

1. Say: Oh non-believers, you better convert to Islam now.

2. If you don't we will kill you.

 

What it does say is:

109:6 You have your faith and I have my faith.

 

Which means you disagree and you part ways.  You don't have to talk to them, or hang out with them or even like them.  You leave them alone if they leave you alone.

 

The idea that we have to convert everyone on the planet or kill them if they refuse is ridiculous.  Some people will be guided and some will not, and those who are not will have to answer for it on Qiyamah.  It is not our job to slaughter people who don't agree with us, but Allah (swta) has given us the right to fight and kill those who try to kill us.

 

As far as the Bahais go, I think they should be allowed to believe whatever they want, and as long as they don't commit any crimes (like espionage or treason), they should be left alone.  They cannot misguide anyone who Allah (swta) chooses to guide.  And you cannot guide anyone that Allah (swta) prevents from being guided.  

 

Islam allows for other religions to be practiced in Islamic lands.  Persecution is not the way of Allah (swta) or the Ahlul-Bayt (as).

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What is the difference between how Shias are treated in Saudi Arabia and how the Bahais are treated? The reason Saudi Arabia treats Shia in such a way is because they feel threatened by their beliefs and find it "unislamic" so are they justified to treat the Shias that way?

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I feel so sorry for you that you had to make up these writings of the Bahai faith and i know for a fact that they are made up. This saddens me to see, and i pray for you that you one day learn the true meaning of the Bahai faith.

 

From what I remember studying Bahai faith, it was one of the most peaceful religions.  It seemed to me to have elements of Buddhism.

I was impressed with the Bahai faith.

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^Modest-communist,

You have nothing to do with Islam... or Islamic freedom. You are a communist, and the communists are mass-murderers who are responsible for millions and millions of death and destruction around the world. You have been a tool in the hands of the Zionists to rule and takeover the world. The communists destroyed more than 130 countries around the world and handed them over to the western-imperialists.

 

You are based on evolution-materialism, atheism, Kufur, and you are nothing but murtad.

 

In Islamic Iran your cult is banned and your books and materials are forbidden.

Edited by Noah-
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^Modest-communist,

You have nothing to do with Islam... or Islamic freedom. You are a communist, and the communists are mass-murderers who are responsible for millions and millions of death and destruction around the world. You have been a tool in the hands of the Zionists to rule and takeover the world. The communists destroyed more than 130 countries around the world and handed them over to the western-imperialists.

 

You are based on evolution-materialism, atheism, Kufur, and you are nothing but murtad.

 

In Islamic Iran your cult is banned and your books and materials are forbidden.

 

Oh, shut up. You're a kid. You know nothing. Communism's not a religion. It's a social and political ideology. Many Muslims are communists. But you are a stupid person who is not needed here. Making silly comments. People like you are mad dogs and bark at others without reason. I met you first time on Shia Chat and you started abusing and insulting me.

:D Noah, dude, look at what you just did. You made a damn moderator lock my thread. Are you really a Shia Muslim? Because you're acting like a extremist. He is not a Muslim. He belongs to a cult. He has nothing to do with Islam. You're attributing such lines to me. Just because I asked questions about Imam Khomeini? Just because I support communism? Bizarre! Do you what communist is? Muslims are killing innocents all over the world. Hate me because I'm also a Muslim. Will you do so? Indeed, human is an idiot and knows nothing about what he does. Alas!

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From what I remember studying Bahai faith, it was one of the most peaceful religions.  It seemed to me to have elements of Buddhism.

I was impressed with the Bahai faith.

I'm very surprised at your comments .

have you heard of Aleister Crowley ?

the 666 himself , the anti christ as some claim .

did you know he met with the Bab ( the founder of the Bahai ) in the king chambers of the great pyramid .

they apparently spoke to an entity ( satan or his rep ) 

Crowley than produced his book of law ( we all know what's in that and his views on Jesus ) 

and the Bab produced the Bahai cult.

are you still impressed ?

 

peace and blessings 

Edited by :Sami II
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I'm very surprised at your comments .

have you heard of Aleister Crowley ?

the 666 himself , the anti christ as some claim .

did you know he met with the Bab ( the founder of the Bahai ) in the king chambers of the great pyramid .

they apparently spoke to an entity ( satan or his rep ) 

Crowley than produced his book of law ( we all know what's in that and his views on Jesus ) 

and the Bab produced the Bahai cult.

are you still impressed ?

 

peace and blessings 

 

Greetings Sami,

 

As I said, 'from what I remember'...  I am sure I have not done a complete thorough study of Ba'hai and how the faith was formed, but from what I know of it I found little of complaint.  They seem a peaceful people to me, with peaceful beliefs and practice... hardly any encroachment or threat to anyone.

 

Peace and blessings to you also,

CLynn

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This thread starts off with a substabtially wrong presumption: that Bahais are persecuted. They're not. More alarmingly, there's no law or regulation forbidding their beliefs. It doesn't mention them period. And because of this glitch, they can't attend universities if they decide to mention they're Bahais during the signup process.

Bahaism was initially not a faith or religion. Like Wahhabism during the Ottoman era, it was a political movement dressed up as a faith and supported by British administrators in the orient. The 19th century saw many of these movements that were initially colonial products today are regarded as faiths.

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This thread starts off with a substabtially wrong presumption: that Bahais are persecuted. They're not. More alarmingly, there's no law or regulation forbidding their beliefs. It doesn't mention them period. And because of this glitch, they can't attend universities if they decide to mention they're Bahais during the signup process.

Bahaism was initially not a faith or religion. Like Wahhabism during the Ottoman era, it was a political movement dressed up as a faith and supported by British administrators in the orient. The 19th century saw many of these movements that were initially colonial products today are regarded as faiths.

 

Well, Iran should accept Baha'i Faith as a proper religion; I think. That'll shut the mouths up of those who criticize Iran for being a terrorist state.

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Well, Iran should accept Baha'i Faith as a proper religion; I think. That'll shut the mouths up of those who criticize Iran for being a terrorist state.

 

Why would you accept a religion you know to be fake as a proper one? Do you think the Prophet (pbuh) would have accepted followers of the false prophet Musaylimah as members of a proper religion? 

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Why would you accept a religion you know to be fake as a proper one? Do you think the Prophet (pbuh) would have accepted followers of the false prophet Musaylimah as members of a proper religion? 

 

But, brother, we can't discriminate them. They're human beings. Will discriminating them make'em feel guilty and return to Islam? Same's with Qadianis in Pakistan that they're persecuted. We should think like a human being. Now years have passed and the Baha'i Faith has become a distinct religion. We have to accept the truth and just like non-Muslims allow Muslims and Muslims allow non-Muslim to live'n worship, same should be done with the Baha'i people.

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But, brother, we can't discriminate them. They're human beings. Will discriminating them make'em feel guilty and return to Islam? Same's with Qadianis in Pakistan that they're persecuted. We should think like a human being. Now years have passed and the Baha'i Faith has become a distinct religion. We have to accept the truth and just like non-Muslims allow Muslims and Muslims allow non-Muslim to live'n worship, same should be done with the Baha'i people.

 

Well, I would agree that it would be wise to not do anything that could be counter-productive, so I wouldn't advocate violence towards them, or anything like that. However, not officially recognising their religion, and forbidding them from propagating it, is hardly a massive persecution.

 

As for the analogy between non-Muslim countries and Muslim countries, you have to realise that they are founded on different premises. Secular states claim to have separation between Church and State, among other things, so allowing Muslims to freely practice their religion is consistent would the principles of the state. To not allow them to would be discrimination. On the other hand, allowing fake religions to freely practice their religion is not consistent would the principles of an Islamic state, and hence there is no discrimination against any particular fake religion.

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Well, I would agree that it would be wise to not do anything that could be counter-productive, so I wouldn't advocate violence towards them, or anything like that. However, not officially recognising their religion, and forbidding them from propagating it, is hardly a massive persecution.

 

As for the analogy between non-Muslim countries and Muslim countries, you have to realise that they are founded on different premises. Secular states claim to have separation between Church and State, among other things, so allowing Muslims to freely practice their religion is consistent would the principles of the state. To not allow them to would be discrimination. On the other hand, allowing fake religions to freely practice their religion is not consistent would the principles of an Islamic state, and hence there is no discrimination against any particular fake religion.

 

They're fake for us but they sincerely believe that they're following what truth is. So our banning them will only make them say, 'See? We were on the right path so these filthy Muslims banned us.' Will it be good? And Islam allows freedom of faith. Islam's a faith of science and liberalism. Iran shouldn't act like Saudi Arabia. If we can persecute Baha'i people then Saudis can persecute Shia Muslims too because they also believe that Shiites are following a fake religion.

 

No, brother, that's unfair.

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They're fake for us but they sincerely believe that they're following what truth is. So our banning them will only make them say, 'See? We were on the right path so these filthy Muslims banned us.' Will it be good? And Islam allows freedom of faith. Islam's a faith of science and liberalism. Iran shouldn't act like Saudi Arabia. If we can persecute Baha'i people then Saudis can persecute Shia Muslims too because they also believe that Shiites are following a fake religion.

 

No, brother, that's unfair.

 

Liberalism? So we should allow open homosexuality then? Open fornication? Public nakedness? Public drinking of alcohol?

 

If you are going to be liberal, then you better be consistent about it.

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Liberalism? So we should allow open homosexuality then? Open fornication? Public nakedness? Public drinking of alcohol?

 

If you are going to be liberal, then you better be consistent about it.

 

Oh, no, that's not liberalism. Liberals are opposite to extremists. They don't go in extreme when it comes to religion. That's your religion; this is my religion. Everything is moderate for them.

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This thread starts off with a substabtially wrong presumption: that Bahais are persecuted. They're not. More alarmingly, there's no law or regulation forbidding their beliefs. It doesn't mention them period. And because of this glitch, they can't attend universities if they decide to mention they're Bahais during the signup process.

Bahaism was initially not a faith or religion. Like Wahhabism during the Ottoman era, it was a political movement dressed up as a faith and supported by British administrators in the orient. The 19th century saw many of these movements that were initially colonial products today are regarded as faiths.

 

 

give-that-man-a-medal-thumb.jpg

Edited by repenter
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  I met a Bahai Iranian lady at my work the other day and she was so deeply attached to the sect. Shes trying everything in her power to convert me and invited me to their big temple .I may go for curiosity sake. I know these were a shia offshoot, and they've kept many of our traits like prayers wudu etc.

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Iran is an Islamic Republic.  It is required by law only to recognize Ahlul-Kitab religions.  If they were to "accept" this sect, where would the spiral end?

 

Maybe this can be the next one Iran should recognize:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/star-wars-is-religion-for-15000-in-czech-republic-65292/

 

Give them represetntation in Parliament, allow it on the census form, get government funding, all that good stuff. 

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Iran is an Islamic Republic.  It is required by law only to recognize Ahlul-Kitab religions.  If they were to "accept" this sect, where would the spiral end?

 

Maybe this can be the next one Iran should recognize:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/star-wars-is-religion-for-15000-in-czech-republic-65292/

 

Give them represetntation in Parliament, allow it on the census form, get government funding, all that good stuff. 

 

People here are really narrow-minded. They think Islam is a terrorist and barbaric religion that allows some religions only and hates others. It means that Mughal Emperors must had banned Hinduism in India. Man, why don't you know that Islam allows all kinds of religions? Islam is a peaceful religion. 

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I think, before you condemn the faith, you should study the faith...
and be surprised how much it has in common with your own.
No one has the right to condemn the faith of another...
but especially without knowing the faith...
and how much does one even know their own faith, let alone the faith of others?
This is why no human has the right, or the power to condemn.
None of us is the all-knowing Creator.

If someone is misguided... the Creator will judge.  The Creator is the only one with the Wisdom to know.

If a thing is good, its good fruits will show.

 

 

Yshwe(Isa, Jesus) taught;

 

every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

 

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Edited by CLynn
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