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Parvizi

I'm Really Trying To Be Good Shi'a But It's Hard

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Salam Alaykom,

I am a young Iranian but raised in the Netherlands almost all people here are Sunni.

That's why I'm always trying to do alot of research about Shiism and Sunnism.

But both of them come with narrations that they are right, when I see good Sunni narrations I just feel very bad. I want to be in the sect that is going to heaven.

The Alhebayt did not go to graves what should we?

Some things about Shi'a make me sad, like today I went to the small Shi'a masjid.

It was time for zuhr and the masjid was just empty, the Imam didn't even say me to stand up for the prayer he didn't call Azan he just prayed alone after that I prayed.

When I go to the small Shi'a masjid I see the big nice Sunni masjed were are alot of people, I get sad.

Even for Jummah prayer there are like 2 or 3 people in the masjid.

I always think about becoming Sunni and being more comfortable when with friends.

I have just another question,

Why are we doing things that the prophet didn't?

Isn't following him just enough?

Thank you for reading please help me cause I'm struggling to remain Shi'a.

Wa salam

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Salam Alaykom,

I am a young Iranian but raised in the Netherlands almost all people here are Sunni.

That's why I'm always trying to do alot of research about Shiism and Sunnism.

But both of them come with narrations that they are right, when I see good Sunni narrations I just feel very bad. I want to be in the sect that is going to heaven.

The Alhebayt did not go to graves what should we?

Some things about Shi'a make me sad, like today I went to the small Shi'a masjid.

It was time for zuhr and the masjid was just empty, the Imam didn't even say me to stand up for the prayer he didn't call Azan he just prayed alone after that I prayed.

When I go to the small Shi'a masjid I see the big nice Sunni masjed were are alot of people, I get sad.

Even for Jummah prayer there are like 2 or 3 people in the masjid.

I always think about becoming Sunni and being more comfortable when with friends.

I have just another question,

Why are we doing things that the prophet didn't?

Isn't following him just enough?

Thank you for reading please help me cause I'm struggling to remain Shi'a.

Wa salam

Trying growing up in the US in the 80's and then you'll know what its like growing up in an unislamic culture.

The first place to start is to educate yourself. Its very easy to get confused and spun around by others when you are not knowledgable yourself (and quite frankly most of the time neither are the ones that approach you trying to "educate" you). Trust me I know exactly what you're going through. Its a very confusing road with people trying to brainwash you. Education leads to ease of thought. Read up and then you'll be able to better determine what path you choose to take.

Hit up http://al-islam.org/ and take it from there. Start simple and work your way up. At the end of it all you'll sit back and then be able to decide what path you've chosen.

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Salam Alaykom,

The Alhebayt did not go to graves what should we?

Since when?

Lady Zaynab and Imam Sajjad (a.s) went to the graves of Imam Hussain (a.s) and his companions shortly after they were freed from Yazid's palace.

This is SUNNI website which posts numerous narrations that permit the visiting of graves for the Sunnis: http://www.cifiaonli...liyasgraves.htm Also, if you have had the good fortune to go to Hajj you would have noticed that all types of Muslims pay a visit to the resting place of Prophet Muhammad (s.w.s)

The idea of it being Bid'a to visit graves is a Wahabbi concept endorsed within mainstream Sunnism to primarily prevent the spread of Shia Islam and allow justification for the destruction of shrines such as Jannat Al Baqi.

Putting that aside, If there are not many Shia's where you live of course there are not going to be many Shia's during Jumah. But that should not be a reason for you to be disheartened. You are from Iranian descent, if you ever go to Iran you will see masses of people coming to pray Jumah, men, women and children, rain or shine. (even snow)

Becoming Sunni to be more comfortable with your friends seems a little shallow. Why give up your Emaan for friends who you will probably grow out of very soon.

Lastly, you have accused Shia's of following things the Prophet didn't. Rationally how can we follow the exact same things 1400 years later? Do we still ride Camels or live under thatched roofs or use Miswaaks, no. However the teachings of Shias are closer to the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (s.w.s) then the sunni teachings. You see the 3 caliphs taught things that openly strayed from what Prophet Muhammad (s.w.s) taught. A few examples are the introduction of taraweeh prayers. banning of Mutah and the addition of the phrase "Salah is better than sleep" in Azaan. Whereas the teachings of the Imam's did not contradict with the Holy Prophets (s.w.s) as each generation passed the teachings onto the next.

Imam Jafar Sadiq (a.s) , a direct descendant of Prophet Muhammad (s.w.s) was the founder of the Ja'fariya school of thought and the leaders of the Sunni schools of thought were his pupils. therefore this idea that by being a Sunni you are closer to the Holy Prophet (s.w.s) and his teachings is a myth.

Wa Salaam

Edited by *Sayyeda*

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I also grew up in the Netherlands, as a Shia afghan. There's not even a Shia Mosque nearby, I always went praying with my 'Sunni' friends in a 'Sunni' Mosque (All Mosques are built to worship Allah, but just to make myself clear). I never had problems, i usually put something down so I wouldn't pray on the carpet and no one said anything or looked weird.

So if you don't like going to the 'Shia' Mosque, then go to the other where you're comfortable, but just pray as you've been taught. Do not seek a religion that is incomplete, for the completeness of religion is only authorized by Allah, the Most High Who has showed us the Straight Path and deviating from it would be as harmful as the earth that would deviate from its place.

The Messenger of Allah - may Allah bestow peace and benedictions upon him and his Progeny - said: "Verily, I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you: the Book of God and my kindred (`itrah), my household (Ahl al­Bayt), for indeed, the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond (of al­Kawthar on the Judgement's Day)."

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First of all brother never ever give up in finding the truth. Just because your a shia or sunni doesnt give you a ticket to heaven. The purpose of life must be clear to those who are searching, and inshAllah they will find it. Next go to the quran, does it not talk about the "purified ones"? Who are they? Abu baker? omar? Who is the ahlulbayt? Which is better the Prophet and his family? Or the quran is enough? Is Allah not the Guide? If so, why would he not have a system of perfect guidence after the last prophet? Would the prophet not choose a succesor? Would the religion of Allah fall down to the hands of 3 people voting? Arnt prophets suppose to be perfect? What does sunni islam say? Do we wash our feet or wipe? Who is following the quran? Going to graves? Whats wrong with that? It makes you remember there is a time of death, be ready. Going to the graves of prophets and imams lift your heart up, feeling the essence of the chosen purified ones whom Allah loves dearly. We do not worship graves, we "LOVE" the prophet and his family, therefore we are happy on their happy occasions and sad when they are sad. Next please dont judge the religion of Allah based on people, judge it based on its principles, otherwise Christianity is the best religion because everyone is at church on sundays, and the biggest religion. We followers of the Ahlulbayt, DO EVERYTHING THEY DID AND NOT DO THE THINGS THEY DIDNT DO. We do what Allah has asked. They are the representatives of Allah, the imams are the protectors of the religion. If it wasnt for them this religion wouldnt be no different than Christianity.

“If people worship Allah, the Great and Almighty, because of fear (of Him), their worship is (similar to that) of slaves. If they worship Him because of desire, their worship (similar to that) of traders, and if they worship Him to show gratefulness toward him, their worship is that of the free." -Imam Zainulabdeen A.S

I have to go to class wa salaam

Sorry I typed it too fast, there may be mistakes. I just hope you understood my points. I'm still in class btw :D

Edited by pureethics

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The Alhebayt did not go to graves what should we?

This is statement is so wrong I don't even know where to begin with. There are many sunni narrations that prophet and his ahlulbayt went to grave for ziarah of their dead. Prophet for ziarah of his mother Amina (ra) and Khadija (ra) . And perhaps his other relatives too. This is from Sunni books.

Also Fatima Zahra (as) also went to grave of prophet often to pray not for him, but to him.

Your sunni friends are mislead trust me I have been there. Stay friends with them but make your knowlege stronger so you can discuss with them intellectullay perhaps a few of them come to way of Ahlulbayt.Keep watching youtube videos and read articles about Ahlulbayt and their wisdom.

May Allah guide us to way of Ahlulbayt

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Ws brother.

I understand what you mean. The Shia doctrine is very different to how Prophet Muhammed (saw) taught us to practise Islam. Shia refuse to admit this but it is a fact.

In some places around the world, the Shia have banned Jum'a prayer altogether!

If you have any doubt, I suggest doing some research starting with The Holy Qu'ran. You will see that the Shia way simply does not concur (their excuse is that The Quran has changed apparently).

You'll probably notice that the Shia rarely mention Prophet Muhammmad (saw) in their lectures. They seem to have forgotten that we derive our religion from The Prophet (pbuh) and they have replaced him with the 12 imams.

Edited by adil452

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Ws brother.

I understand what you mean. The Shia doctrine is very different to how Prophet Muhammed (saw) taught us to practise Islam. Shia refuse to admit this but it is a fact.

In some places around the world, the Shia have banned Jum'a prayer altogether!

If you have any doubt, I suggest doing some research starting with The Holy Qu'ran. You will see that the Shia way simply does not concur (their excuse is that The Quran has changed apparently).

You'll probably notice that the Shia rarely mention Prophet Muhammmad (saw) in their lectures. They seem to have forgotten that we derive our religion from The Prophet (pbuh) and they have replaced him with the 12 imams.

You are so lost in ignorance and misguidance I am not sure if I could help you if I tried...

1) I think if you did enough honest research you would reach he conclusion that the ridiculous Sahabah fairy tale you have deluded yourself with is in fact contrary to reality. Our Prophet (sawa) stated many times that the guides after the Prophet are chosen ones from his family and said his successes are 12 in number. He left behind two Weighty things, promising us if we hold onto them we would never go astray. It looks like you have held on to only the Qur'an and have failed to hold onto the Qur'an. Majority of Muslims have failed to hold onto the 2nd of of the two Weighty things, thus majority have gone astray.

2) Juma'ah being banned...? Obviously not by 12ver Shi'as. I'm still going to Juma'ah every week.

3) "If you have any doubt, I suggest doing some research starting with The Holy Qu'ran. You will see that the Shia way simply does not concur (their excuse is that The Quran has changed apparently)."

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. The Qur'an on my bedside table is the same qur'an in your house... the Qur'an hasn't been changed, anyone who says we believe in a different Qur'an or say we believe jn verses added or subtracted after RasoolAllah (sawa) is nothing but a liar. We are not the ones that have a book which we regard as Sahih yet has narrations saying the Qur'an pages were eaten by a flipping goat...

4) Your last point is an absolute load of garbage. Every lecture by a Shi'i always begins with the mention of our Holy Prophet (sawa) and that's just the beginning of the lecture.

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You'll probably notice that the Shia rarely mention Prophet Muhammmad (saw) in their lectures. They seem to have forgotten that we derive our religion from The Prophet (pbuh) and they have replaced him with the 12 imams.

Name of Muhammad (pbuh) is heard more than all Sunni mosques I have ever attended. And Shias keep sending salawats for him and his progeny.

And as far as Friday prayer, it is liver and active among Shia communities. There is no ban!

Sunni doctrine is however is filled with fabrication which is why they keep making these movies against Islam. The last movie they made against our holy prophet came wasn't made up by the directors. It came up straight out of Sunni books.

If you watch that "Jesus or Mohammad" show in youtube, you see they keep putting down our religion BECAUSE of Sunni wicket books.

Yes Shia doctrine is very different. We follow the ahlulbayt who were always pure and became even more pure according to Quran. Sunnis follow Umar, a person who killed his daughter and ate his god, then supposdly repented and decided to be kahlif of Muslims.

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Check out this thread, Sunnism is proven wrong by the Quran and Sunnah and Shiasm is confirmed by it:

http://www.shiachat....nce-over-islam/

...lol

Neither Sunnism is proven wrong nor is Shiasm confirmed in that thread. In fact, its knocking both of them out.

Parvizi, NEVER follow something( sunnism in this case) just because the majority around you are following the same. Also, forget about the 73 sects in hell and 1 in heaven.

Just because your a shia or sunni doesnt give you a ticket to heaven.

For this ^ reason. (pureethics the points/topics you summed up after are barely relevant to Islam :P)

Don't view Sunnis as if they were Christians or Jews. View them as you. They are exactly like you, muslims submitting to Allah. That will remove the 'minority feeling' you have for starters.

Edited by Wing

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...lol

Neither Sunnism is proven wrong nor is Shiasm confirmed in that thread. In fact, its knocking both of them out.

Parvizi, NEVER follow something( sunnism in this case) just because the majority around you are following the same. Also, forget about the 73 sects in hell and 1 in heaven.

For this ^ reason. (pureethics the points/topics you summed up after are barely relevant to Islam :P)

Don't view Sunnis as if they were Christians or Jews. View them as you. They are exactly like you, muslims submitting to Allah. That will remove the 'minority feeling' you have for starters.

LOL You're the nutjob who kept getting schooled in that thread and was trying to convince people to stop following parts of the Quran and follow your flawed and childish logic instead, and said to stop believing in the Sunnah because it contradicted Sunnism.

FACT:

The Quran says only Allah can pick our leaders, Sunnis elected their own leaders

FACT:

The Quran says to only wipe a part of the feet in Wudhu and Sunnis don't do that

FACT:

The Quran says Ali (as) has authority over us in 5:55

FACT:

The Sunnah says there will be only 12 Muslim leaders, all of them from Quraysh and the 12 Shia Imams are the only one that fit that profile in all of Islam

FACT:

The Sunnah says the Prophet (pbuh) said Ali (as) will have every right after him except for prophethood

FACT:

The Quran says Allah has decreed to purify Ahl al-Bayt and remove flaw from them, Sunnis reject this.

FACT:

You didn't put up a single arguement that had any sort of logical merit whatsoever and you still blindly continue to follow Sunnism and ignore all evidenvce against it, and you think the only thing that matters is a game of semantics where you refer to yourself as a Muslim instead of a Sunni and that is the only thing needed to be a real Muslim, not your beliefs, actions, etc.

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LOL You're the nutjob who kept getting schooled in that thread and was trying to convince people to stop following parts of the Quran and follow your flawed and childish logic instead, and said to stop believing in the Sunnah because it contradicted Sunnism.

That's your opinion which is wrong. Trying to convince, you think I care about ppl going to hell/heaven? Okay, from some...but in general I don't care enough to be 'convincing ppl'. Btw, from AllahuAkbar to Mutah (Hatum - forum names)?

FACT:

The Quran says only Allah can pick our leaders, Sunnis elected their own leaders

Prophet elected Ali right? Who elected the rest of his lineage em I mean succesors? They can claim just as you did and back it up too.

FACT:

The Quran says to only wipe a part of the feet in Wudhu and Sunnis don't do that

Don't you wipe your feet after you wash them?

FACT:

The Quran says Ali (as) has authority over us in 5:55

Nice try. a Sunni can call either Sahabi having the authority there. Btw, its plural.

FACT:

The Sunnah says there will be only 12 Muslim leaders, all of them from Quraysh and the 12 Shia Imams are the only one that fit that profile in all of Islam

This is an amazing and very important thing and should be considered core-Islam. I open the holy Quran only to find 12 jew leaders? So we have 12 jew leaders who serve us close to no purpose but OURS aren't in there?

FACT:

The Sunnah says the Prophet (pbuh) said Ali (as) will have every right after him except for prophethood

Fact is: 'Sunna' says alot, that's why 90% of the muslims are confused and mock/being mocked. It has been implied about other Sahaba aswell.

FACT:

You didn't put up a single arguement that had any sort of logical merit whatsoever and you still blindly continue to follow Sunnism and ignore all evidenvce against it, and you think the only thing that matters is a game of semantics where you refer to yourself as a Muslim instead of a Sunni and that is the only thing needed to be a real Muslim, not your beliefs, actions, etc.

You are wrong yet again, and the first sentence is ofc your view.

here we go again.. :rolleyes:

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That's your opinion which is wrong. Trying to convince, you think I care about ppl going to hell/heaven? Okay, from some...but in general I don't care enough to be 'convincing ppl'. Btw, from AllahuAkbar to Mutah (Hatum - forum names)?

lmao 1) That's not my opinion, it's a fact. Go learn about the science of debate. 2) Go ahead and post one single post you made in that thread that actually uses the Quran and Sunnah to refute the OP.

Prophet elected Ali right? Who elected the rest of his lineage em I mean succesors? They can claim just as you did and back it up too.

He elected Ali who had authority, and he had the authority to say who is next, and that person had the authority to say who is next, and had the authority to say who is next, and so on. It's not rocket science. But then again simple concepts obviously go WAY above your head.

Don't you wipe your feet after you wash them?

Washing the whole foot is not wiping a part of the foot as the Quran says to do. You might as well start washing your entire arm starting from the shoulder and start saying that's your new wudhu. I'm sure Umar and Abu Bakr would be fine with it since they are the kings of bidah.

Nice try. a Sunni can call either Sahabi having the authority there. Btw, its plural.

Except Ali (as) is the only one to have given his ring in charity at the time of that Ayah which is confirmed by both Shia and Sunni sources. Btw, go learn English, that context of sentence in no way implied multiple people.

This is an amazing and very important thing and should be considered core-Islam. I open the holy Quran only to find 12 jew leaders? So we have 12 jew leaders who serve us close to no purpose but OURS aren't in there?

Uhh, 1) Bani Israel were not from Quraysh 2) What's your point? There you go again stating your own flawed logic and making excuses instead of using the Quran and Sunnah to make a refutation.

Fact is: 'Sunna' says alot, that's why 90% of the muslims are confused and mock/being mocked. It has been implied about other Sahaba aswell.

The difference is that I'm talking about the authenticated Sunnah, parts that are Sahih, not mawdu like the ones you're talking about with other Sahabah.

[b]You are wrong yet again, and the first sentence is ofc your view.

here we go again.. :rolleyes:

lol You're a joke and you're embarrassing yourself. You can't actually prove anything you say using the Quran and Sunnah so instead you spew diarrhea out of your mouth and hope someone is as stupid as you are and will believe you.

Questions you can't answer:

- If the Quran clearly refers to Ali (as) in 5:55 as having authority over us, then why do you reject his authority?

- If the Quran says only Allah can elect our leaders, then why did Sunnis elect their leaders, and why do you follow those elected leaders instead of the chosen leader (Ali (as))?

- If the authenticated Sunnah says there will only be 12 Muslim rulers, all of whom are from Quraysh, and the 12 Shia Imams are the only ones that fit that profile, then why do you a) Follow follow the Sunni leaders, which do not fit that profile? b ) Not follow the only 12 Muslim rulers who are the only ones who do fit that profile?

- If the Quran says Ahl al-Bayt is perfected and without flaw, then how come you don't believe what they say and instead follow those who killed and oppressed them?

- Why do you follow a Bidah religion?

Examples:

- Umar changed the prayer to both both hands together during prayer because he liked the way the Persians looked when they did it for him

- Umar changed the Azan and removed the wajib part "Hayya 'ala khayr al amal" (meaning "The time for the best of deeds has come") because he wanted war to be the best thing

- Umar banned mutah which was made halal by the Prophet (pbuh), which is funny because Misyar and Urfi are still allowed according to Sunnis

- Sunnis changed wudhu from wiping a part of the feet to washing the whole foot in contradiction to the Quran

- Sunnis removed the wajib first Ayah of Surah al-Hamd from prayer, saying only part of the Surah

and the list goes on forever.

The bottom line is you're a feeble-minded try-hard, and if Allah himself told you to follow the 12 Imams you would still not listen and just make up excuses instead of being guided. The embarrassingly ironic part is that you keep telling yourself everyone else, including Allah (the Quran) and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) (the Sunnah), are wrong. I feel sorry for you.

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^ Why even bother with this kid? He's clings to his delusional beliefs like a grown man still believing in Santa Claus. Just look at the way he keeps repeatedly saying "you're wrong" without any supporting evidence, trying to convince himself it's true. lmao. The kid does not sincerely want to follow true Islam, he refuses to stop worshipping Abu Bakr and Umar, so he's hopeless. Heck, he probably refuses to believe Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are fake too.

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lmao 1) That's not my opinion, it's a fact. Go learn about the science of debate. 2) Go ahead and post one single post you made in that thread that actually uses the Quran and Sunnah to refute the OP.

1) It's YOUR deluded fact. You are way to biased to be able to enter a debate. I won't bother cause I know all you do is talk in circles in a biased and offensive way with zero sense of logic/reality. But if you want 1, here goes: You claim we have 12 infallible imams yet all we have is 12 jewish imams, go find them in the Quran(jews are there why not ours) and i'll be shia right away.

He elected Ali who had authority, and he had the authority to say who is next, and that person had the authority to say who is next, and had the authority to say who is next, and so on. It's not rocket science. But then again simple concepts obviously go WAY above your head.

We all know this "concept". It's nowhere near above my head and a fresh born baby would get the picture. Thing is, they all were from his lineage and it stopped at 12. Why did the loop end there, the last one didn't meditate enough for a 13th+? Oh wait, he's alive for a hundered thousand years(sarcasm as your birdbrain might think i'm serious) and hears/sees us and even replies to us !

Washing the whole foot is not wiping a part of the foot as the Quran says to do. You might as well start washing your entire arm starting from the shoulder and start saying that's your new wudhu. I'm sure Umar and Abu Bakr would be fine with it since they are the kings of bidah.

Wudhu is there to purify yourself. So if you find it necessary for them to be washed, wash them. In general, feet get dirtier than arms. So you wash your arms etc and you don't have to wipe them, but wash your feet and its a must to wipe them. You do mention Umar/Bakr alot, you must be dreaming about them.

Except Ali (as) is the only one to have given his ring in charity at the time of that Ayah which is confirmed by both Shia and Sunni sources. Btw, go learn English, that context of sentence in no way implied multiple people.

The sentence is plural, I meant the original verse (in arabic) where is english in this?

Uhh, 1) Bani Israel were not from Quraysh 2) What's your point? There you go again stating your own flawed logic and making excuses instead of using the Quran and Sunnah to make a refutation.

You're basically calling me a retard all over your posts and can't even figure my point in this? No surprise. If we have 12 jewish leaders in OUR book while we don't have our 12 Imams in OUR book what's your excuse? We have it in the (so-called) authenticated Sunnah? Prove my logic flawed by showing a Quranic verse stating our 12 imams then.

Questions you can't answer:

They all have been answered with Quranic verses, reality, logic and my opinion across Shiachat.

The bottom line is you're a feeble-minded try-hard, and if Allah himself told you to follow the 12 Imams you would still not listen and just make up excuses instead of being guided. The embarrassingly ironic part is that you keep telling yourself everyone else, including Allah (the Quran) and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) (the Sunnah), are wrong. I feel sorry for you.

That's the whole point, he never told us(in the Quran). I already hear you saying "not everything is written in there" but this is different. The 12 jews are in our book and "our" 12 imams are core-Islam, like Salaat which is repeated enough to get the picture.

So why don't you go do some Zanjeer Mr.All-guided while Allah explicitly told you not to harm yourself. As for your last sentence, it's your deluded assumption about me, accusing me of grave things (they're only in your mind) which you repeat(ed) over and over again.

^ Why even bother with this kid? He's clings to his delusional beliefs like a grown man still believing in Santa Claus. Just look at the way he keeps repeatedly saying "you're wrong" without any supporting evidence, trying to convince himself it's true. lmao. The kid does not sincerely want to follow true Islam, he refuses to stop worshipping Abu Bakr and Umar, so he's hopeless. Heck, he probably refuses to believe Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are fake too.

Should I bring up the 1000 year old imam in ghaiba who's hearing/seeing and answering your requests? Someone mentioned fairies?

"You're wrong" has it's history in other threads. I'm just limiting the circles drawn with those words.

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There is no evidence in The Qur'an that the Imamate system is valid. It all comes from the imagination of the Shia.

If as you say, Hadith of thaqalain refers to Imamate, then how come the first thaqal (Qur'an) never mentions the 2nd thaqal (12 imams)?

The aaya of Surat Al-Ahzab refers to the wives of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) so they are also included in the 2nd thaqal it seems.

The aya about wiping the feet follows grammatical rules which therefore can also be interpreted as washing the feet.

The hidden Imam concept is pure mythology.

I'm sorry but it is unacceptable to invent things and expect people to follow them blindly.

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1) It's YOUR deluded fact. You are way to biased to be able to enter a debate. I won't bother cause I know all you do is talk in circles in a biased and offensive way with zero sense of logic/reality. But if you want 1, here goes: You claim we have 12 infallible imams yet all we have is 12 jewish imams, go find them in the Quran(jews are there why not ours) and i'll be shia right away.

lmao You're obviously too stupid to read. Did you miss the part that said

Go learn about the science of debate
You failed in every aspect, and you you have no basis whatsoever to claim I'm bias. The fact is you can't put up any sort of logical argument so you just whine like a child and hope people will give in. The fact that YOU would call anyone else bias while you're the only one who's obviously so biased towards Sunnism and rejects all facts and says "LALALALA I CAN"T HEAR YOU! YOU'RE WRONG!" inspite of all facts proving the contrary is hilarious.
We all know this "concept". It's nowhere near above my head and a fresh born baby would get the picture. Thing is, they all were from his lineage and it stopped at 12. Why did the loop end there, the last one didn't meditate enough for a 13th+? Oh wait, he's alive for a hundered thousand years(sarcasm as your birdbrain might think i'm serious) and hears/sees us and even replies to us !

Another embarrassingly moronic statement. It stopped at 12 because those are the only Imams Allah wanted to appoint, and because the world will be destroyed after #12. You're obviously far too stupid too actually grasp this. Oh, and as for being alive for 'a hundred thousand years', the Prophet Nuh (as) lived hundred of years and the Prophet Isa (as) has been alive and is still alive longer than the Mahdi (AF).

Now go ahead and point out what part of this concept you don't understand or think is wrong. Seems like you just don't like the idea of the Mahdi (AF), so you're like a baby refusing to believe it for any logical reason whatsoever.

Wudhu is there to purify yourself. So if you find it necessary for them to be washed, wash them. In general, feet get dirtier than arms. So you wash your arms etc and you don't have to wipe them, but wash your feet and its a must to wipe them. You do mention Umar/Bakr alot, you must be dreaming about them.

Wudhu is there to purify yourself in accordance to Allah's demands so you can pray, not to wash whatever you think is dirty. The fact is that the way Sunnis do wudhu is bidah. And I mentioned Umar and Abu Bakr once so I'm dreaming about them? lmao You're the one who worships them so much you refuse to leave your fantasy land where they're you're almighty and "rightly guided" caliphs and your love for them doesn't allow you to acknowledge facts.

The sentence is plural, I meant the original verse (in arabic) where is english in this?

Where is English in this? Was that supposed to be a proper sentence? And regardless of whether or not it's plural, the fact is Ali (as) is the only one who gave the zakat in a state of ruku when that Ayah was revealed.

You're basically calling me a retard all over your posts and can't even figure my point in this? No surprise. If we have 12 jewish leaders in OUR book while we don't have our 12 Imams in OUR book what's your excuse? We have it in the (so-called) authenticated Sunnah? Prove my logic flawed by showing a Quranic verse stating our 12 imams then.

I got your point, what you don't seem to understand is that I'm calling it incredibly stupid.

2) What's your point? There you go again stating your own flawed logic and making excuses instead of using the Quran and Sunnah to make a refutation.

Get it? No? Let me break it down for you so it's simple enough for you to understand. You saying they're not specifically named in the Quran which has no relevance whatsoever. You think Allah puts in the Quran what YOU want? He already stated how to do Wudhu, that Ali (as) has authority over us, that Ahl al-Bayt is perfect, that only He can elect our leaders, and you don't believe in any of that.

So who are the 12 Muslims leaders all of Quraysh? Can you actually think of an answer?

They all have been answered with Quranic verses, reality, logic and my opinion across Shiachat.

So in other words you can't answer them so you're just going to run away. Go ahead and post the answers using Quranic verses, reality and logic (and LOL at you saying you answered them using your opinion, that's probably the only accurate thing you've ever said).

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Should I bring up the 1000 year old imam in ghaiba who's hearing/seeing and answering your requests? Someone mentioned fairies?

"You're wrong" has it's history in other threads. I'm just limiting the circles drawn with those words.

Except our beliefs are proven by the Quran and Sunnah, while yours are contradicted by it, simply making them fantasies. And I've seen your history in other threads, you've never once been able to prove them wrong, just as in this thread. You just state your opinion, make an illogical statement, then run away. Go ahead and answer OsamaHatum's questions using the Quran and Sunnah. Let's see if you can do it without posting your own drooling opinion instead of facts and evidence this time.

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The Alhebayt did not go to graves what should we?

This is statement is so wrong I don't even know where to begin with. There are many sunni narrations that prophet and his ahlulbayt went to grave for ziarah of their dead. Prophet for ziarah of his mother Amina (ra) and Khadija (ra) . And perhaps his other relatives too. This is from Sunni books.

Also Fatima Zahra (as) also went to grave of prophet often to pray not for him, but to him.

Your sunni friends are mislead trust me I have been there. Stay friends with them but make your knowlege stronger so you can discuss with them intellectullay perhaps a few of them come to way of Ahlulbayt.Keep watching youtube videos and read articles about Ahlulbayt and their wisdom.

May Allah guide us to way of Ahlulbayt

Imam Husain (as) used to visit the grave of his brother Imam Hasan (as) on a weekly basis, even until he left Medina for Karbala.

If an Imam visiting the grave of another Imam is not proof enough that we are allowed to visit graves then I'm not sure what else is.

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Salam Alaykom,

I am a young Iranian but raised in the Netherlands almost all people here are Sunni.

That's why I'm always trying to do alot of research about Shiism and Sunnism.

But both of them come with narrations that they are right, when I see good Sunni narrations I just feel very bad. I want to be in the sect that is going to heaven.

The Alhebayt did not go to graves what should we?

Some things about Shi'a make me sad, like today I went to the small Shi'a masjid.

It was time for zuhr and the masjid was just empty, the Imam didn't even say me to stand up for the prayer he didn't call Azan he just prayed alone after that I prayed.

When I go to the small Shi'a masjid I see the big nice Sunni masjed were are alot of people, I get sad.

Even for Jummah prayer there are like 2 or 3 people in the masjid.

I always think about becoming Sunni and being more comfortable when with friends.

I have just another question,

Why are we doing things that the prophet didn't?

Isn't following him just enough?

Thank you for reading please help me cause I'm struggling to remain Shi'a.

Wa salam

Interesting you say you want to become Sunni and yet on another thread you called Yassir Habib a scholar (seeming to put him in a positive light) , and seeming to differentiate between him and Ayatullah Khameni/Hassan Nasrullah. (implying they playing politics not religion).

Any admirer of YH by definition is a lost soul anyway. I would reccommend you get a bit of maturity. Or are you just a anti IRI troll

Edited by A true Sunni

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There is no evidence in The Qur'an that the Imamate system is valid. It all comes from the imagination of the Shia.

Durrrrrrrrrrr, it clearly says only Allah can choose our leaders several times, says Ali (as) is the Wali in 5:55, says that blood relatives are more entitled to inherit from the Prophet (pbuh) than Sahabah, says that authority can be passed down through lineage, says that Allah has appointed Imams to guide by his command, etc. But maybe you've never actually read the Quran or just went blind at those parts.

If as you say, Hadith of thaqalain refers to Imamate, then how come the first thaqal (Qur'an) never mentions the 2nd thaqal (12 imams)?

He you go again with your flawed logic. 1) The Quran does say Ali (as) is the Wali in 5:55, 2) Why would this requirement of yours have to exist? Because you want it to?

The aaya of Surat Al-Ahzab refers to the wives of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) so they are also included in the 2nd thaqal it seems.

Except that Ayah uses the words Ankum (from you) and Yutahhirakum (to purify you), which are both in the masculine plural form, which would mean it's not walking about his (pbuh) wives. Wives are not part of Ahl al-Bayt:

Hussain Ibn Sabrah asked Zaid Ibn Arqam, "Who are the members of His household? Aren't His wives part of the members of his family?" Thereupon Zaid said, "His wives are members of his family [in a general sense], but (Islamically), the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of zakat is forbidden." Hussain asked, "Who are they?". Upon which Zaid said, "Ali and the offspring of Ali, Aqil and the offspring of Aqil, the offspring of Jaffer, and the offspring of Abbas." Hussain said "These are those for whom the acceptance of zakat is forbidden?" Zaid replied, "Yes."

-Sahih Muslim #31.5920-2.

Hussain Then asked: "Aren't the wives (Of the Prophet) included amongst the members of the household?" He said, "No, by Allah, a woman lives with a man [as his wife] for a certain period; he then divorces her, and she goes back to her parents and her people. The members of his household include his own self, and his kith, and kin, for whom the acceptance of zakat is prohibited."

-Sahih Muslim #31.5923

The aya about wiping the feet follows grammatical rules which therefore can also be interpreted as washing the feet.

It cleary says to wipe a part of the foot, not wash the whole foot. Simply doing to whole foot contradicts the Ayah.

The hidden Imam concept is pure mythology.

1) You just made a baseless statement with no backing whatsoever. Can you actually prove it or are baseless statements all you're capable of?

2) Occultation is mythology? Too bad it's in the Quran when referring to the Prophet Isa (as):

Surah An-Nisa, Ayah 157-158:

{157} "and for their saying, ‘We killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the apostle of Allah’ —though they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but so it was made to appear to them. Indeed those who differ concerning him are surely in doubt about him: they do not have any knowledge of that beyond following conjectures, and certainly they did not kill him."

{158} "Rather Allah raised him up toward Himself, and Allah is all-mighty, all-wise."

I'm sorry but it is unacceptable to invent things and expect people to follow them blindly.

Obviously you don't think so since you have no problem following an invented caliphate and following them blindly despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The irony and hypocrisy of Sunnis is unmatched by any other group in the world.

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Interesting you say you want to become Sunni and yet on another thread you called Yassir Habib a scholar (seeming to put him in a positive light) , and seeming to differentiate between him and Ayatullah Khameni/Hassan Nasrullah. (implying they playing politics not religion).

Any admirer of YH by definition is a lost soul anyway. I would reccommend you get a bit of maturity. Or are you just a anti IRI troll

Brother, if I listen to any Imam for deen I would listen to Yasser Habib.

If I want to listen some political stuff I would listen to Imam Khamenei.

And no I am not anti IR but there are alot of things in Iran going wrong and the akhlaq of the basiji isn't the akhlaq of Ahlebayt (as) I can tell you.

And I'd like to know why you think Yasser Habib isn't good?

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Brother, if I listen to any Imam for deen I would listen to Yasser Habib.

If I want to listen some political stuff I would listen to Imam Khamenei.

And no I am not anti IR but there are alot of things in Iran going wrong and the akhlaq of the basiji isn't the akhlaq of Ahlebayt (as) I can tell you.

And I'd like to know why you think Yasser Habib isn't good?

So having said all this and being such an ardent admirer of YB you want to become Sunni. Like to see how many admirers of Ayatullah Khameni and Hassan Nasrullah are attracted to becoming Sunni lol. You a troll and not a very good one lol

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Why is it that when someone asks a genuine question it becomes and excuse to argue like children picking on every sentence. Please think before you type... You are not doing your selves or this forum any favours.

Parvizi I am answering your post...

I am Shia married to a Hanafi... so we're both muslim and love Ahlulbayt, our daughter is 5 months old and we called her Khadeja Fatima.

I have discussed topics with him and his father (previously an imam in the blue mosque, 'sultan Ahmet')... We generally agree on lots. Once discussing something in circles like you do when neither side will give in my father in law will said to my hubby she follows Imam Ja'far and we follow his student Hanafi... isn't the teacher the better source than the student.

We know we have a better preserved message because of our link to Ahlulbayt. We know there is propaganda against our sect which we as followers shouldn't accept blindly.

It is your responsibility to search for the truth but I think you'll fail if you think people who left the chain of Ahlulbayt will give you those answers.

Reading your post gave me the impression that your friends are salafi/wahabi... If you are looking for a pure form of Islam you will not find it without the guidance of Ahlulbayt and the message, knowledge, history they preserved for us. A rewritten version of history makes everything we do 'bidah'.

I am not saying follow blindly but I am saying forget family and friends and start looking for answers your self.

To address the issue of the empty mosque... A full mosque is great but who said you couldn't go to the Sunni Mosque to pray? You've already said almost all the people there are sunni.... that probably explains your empty shia mosque and full sunni one right?

In my household growing up my mum & dad never missed a prayer... My mother would pray fajir in my bedroom as a subtle way of waking me up every morning to pray... Alhamdulilah I hope to do the same for my girl :)

Do you have to agree with your friends? I grew up surrounded by sunni friends from all over the world... I never felt the need to deny what I was, now I am married to a sunni man, living in a sunni country surrounded by sunni people every day. I am still proud to say I am Shia.

It sounds like your friends have managed to convince you that you are misguided and that you are not knowledgeable enough to answer there accusations against the Shia path.

So I repeat, don't worry about anyone else just start the journey of educating your self in the history of Islam through strong sources.

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Why is it that when someone asks a genuine question it becomes and excuse to argue like children picking on every sentence. Please think before you type... You are not doing your selves or this forum any favours.

Parvizi I am answering your post...

I am Shia married to a Hanafi... so we're both muslim and love Ahlulbayt, our daughter is 5 months old and we called her Khadeja Fatima.

I have discussed topics with him and his father (previously an imam in the blue mosque, 'sultan Ahmet')... We generally agree on lots. Once discussing something in circles like you do when neither side will give in my father in law will said to my hubby she follows Imam Ja'far and we follow his student Hanafi... isn't the teacher the better source than the student.

We know we have a better preserved message because of our link to Ahlulbayt. We know there is propaganda against our sect which we as followers shouldn't accept blindly.

It is your responsibility to search for the truth but I think you'll fail if you think people who left the chain of Ahlulbayt will give you those answers.

Reading your post gave me the impression that your friends are salafi/wahabi... If you are looking for a pure form of Islam you will not find it without the guidance of Ahlulbayt and the message, knowledge, history they preserved for us. A rewritten version of history makes everything we do 'bidah'.

I am not saying follow blindly but I am saying forget family and friends and start looking for answers your self.

To address the issue of the empty mosque... A full mosque is great but who said you couldn't go to the Sunni Mosque to pray? You've already said almost all the people there are sunni.... that probably explains your empty shia mosque and full sunni one right?

In my household growing up my mum & dad never missed a prayer... My mother would pray fajir in my bedroom as a subtle way of waking me up every morning to pray... Alhamdulilah I hope to do the same for my girl :)

Do you have to agree with your friends? I grew up surrounded by sunni friends from all over the world... I never felt the need to deny what I was, now I am married to a sunni man, living in a sunni country surrounded by sunni people every day. I am still proud to say I am Shia.

It sounds like your friends have managed to convince you that you are misguided and that you are not knowledgeable enough to answer there accusations against the Shia path.

So I repeat, don't worry about anyone else just start the journey of educating your self in the history of Islam through strong sources.

Thank you very much for your reply, someone you really answers me and does not start to say other things.

Shokran I really appreciate for answering me.

Wa salaam

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Durrrrrrrrrrr, it clearly says only Allah can choose our leaders several times, says Ali (as) is the Wali in 5:55,

Right brother AS YOU WROTE ABOVE your words not mine remember we will answervto Allah swt so show us where IT SAYS AL RA IS THE WALI?

as you have written?

Dont give me no tafseers or who they think is bowing in zakah etc i just want as you posted

Ali ra is wali WRITTEN IN QURAN

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Thank you very much for your reply, someone you really answers me and does not start to say other things.

Shokran I really appreciate for answering me.

Wa salaam

You are full of contradictions and one post is at odds with the other. Why should anyone take you seriously. My advice to you learn to distinguish true scholars from fitna mongers.

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Except that Ayah uses the words Ankum (from you) and Yutahhirakum (to purify you), which are both in the masculine plural form, which would mean it's not walking about his (pbuh) wives. Wives are not part of Ahl al-Bayt:

The word 'Ahl' is a masculine word. That is why the tense is masculine.

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Alhamdulillah I converted from Sunni to Shia a few months ago. Brother Parvizi Shia is the right path. I started off by doing research to try and prove Shia wrong, but the more I studied the more I found that the exact opposite was true. Sunnism originates from a rebellion of Islam and defiance of the Prophet (pbuh). Sunnism is plagued by bidah, and even worse is plagued by ignorance and blind hate. If there was any doubt before, all doubt was erased by the events at the Battle of Karbala, and the Battle of Karbala is a light for all those sincerely seeking to be guided.

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Alhamdulillah I converted from Sunni to Shia a few months ago. Brother Parvizi Shia is the right path. I started off by doing research to try and prove Shia wrong, but the more I studied the more I found that the exact opposite was true. Sunnism originates from a rebellion of Islam and defiance of the Prophet (pbuh). Sunnism is plagued by bidah, and even worse is plagued by ignorance and blind hate. If there was any doubt before, all doubt was erased by the events at the Battle of Karbala, and the Battle of Karbala is a light for all those sincerely seeking to be guided.

you should post your story in the revert section please!!!

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