Sunnis. Do You Believe That Killing Shias Is Halal

[Al-Hassan]

(bismillah)

Salam

When I say Sunnis, I am not making a generalization to include Salafis and Wahabis inside the fold of your sect. Wahabis and Salafis are corrupt ideologies and their follower are predominately Kuffar :shaytan:and their view on killing Shias is clear. However, the Sunni view on killing Shia is still controversial.

That being said, I am specifically asking Sunnis who adhere themselves to one of the four madhabs. According to one of the major Sunni websites online; Sunnipath.com, their scholars state that Shias are considered inside the fold of Islam as it can be confirmed by the two links below from their website.

http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=9787&CATE=24

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=13662&CATE=1

However, words and fatwas can be said but not necessarily applied. In this case, according to Sunnipath we are considered to be Muslims but the same scholars who issued these fatwas have not condemned the Shia killings that occur regularly in Pakistan and Iraq! On top of that, the adherents of their sect have a contrary view to what their scholars say and it can easily be confirmed on you tube where most of the video coming from the followers of their sect promote hatred towards Shias. Here is a link below of a sample channel , most likely being sunni that promote hate towards Shias in the most gruesome ways. Just read the comments and you can confirm for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD8MoSFO44k&lc=C_EIF7C49ccLjtxnfPGqpTfWSjgp61OpHKM6oEmC8WU&lch=email_reply&feature=em-comment_reply_received

Now some of them might ask that it's the other way around, where you have the oppressor Shia Assad killing the oppressed Sunnis in Syrian. Ok then based on their logic, we Shias can safely say that all of Sunnis are terrorists for blowing up Shias in Iraq and Pakistan. I can also say they are terrorists because thousands of Shias were killed by the Sunni Saddam hussien.

In regards to that last statement above, the point being, you cannot use the flaws from Bashar Al-Assad and Khamanie alone to generalize the entire body of the Shia population. That's like saying all Muslims are responsible for 9-11 as well.

Now back to the original question. What is the real stance of the Sunnis when it comes to killing Shias? Do you believe that killing Shias is halal? It is a simple yes or no answer. Moreover, Staying silent on such matters is no different than accepting it.

If the answer is NO, then I can safely say that the majority of your adherents to your sect online are deviated for not reflecting on the beliefs of their knowledgeable scholars, for example the ones from Sunniforums who believe that Shias are muslim. That being said, what good is a sect if most of their adherents are deviated and do not reflect on the beliefs and fatwas of their scholars?. If the answer is yes, that killing Shias is considered halal based on your classical books, then your scholars are using Taqiyya. Simple.

(wasalam)

[Ghuraba]

That is a new one, Sunnis thinking it's halal to kill Shias; never heard of that one. I've actually never met a Sunni that thought killing anyone was halal led alone killing a Shia.

[Akbar673]

That is a new one, Sunnis thinking it's halal to kill Shias; never heard of that one. I've actually never met a Sunni that thought killing anyone was halal led alone killing a Shia.

If you head to sunniform they have no problem with calling for the killing of Shia. Not sure how valid that forum is of the Sunni populace but they hate Shia over there.

[Al-Hassan]

If you head to sunniform they have no problem with calling for the killing of Shia. Not sure how valid that forum is of the Sunni populace but they hate Shia over there.

Sunniforum in general is valid under the sunni scholars who adhere to the Sunnipath website I mentioned earlier. If indeed the Sunniforum members outwardly show that there is no problem with killing Shias then it proves that these people are deviant under the eyes of their scholars for having views that is contrary to them and their fatwas. Like I stated before, what good is a sect if the majority are seen deviant by their scholars? This shows how limited knowledge they have on their beliefs. At the same time however, it can also mean that their scholars are either liars or under taqiya.

[Ibn al-Hassan]

If you want the real Sunni view, I'd suggest you ask people on Sunni forums.

(wasalam)

[Naruto]

Salam, Sunnis themselves have discussed this in their forums. See their thread: [URL Edited]/index.php?showtopic=18473&st=0

[NonsectarianMuslim]

I thought Sunniforum was pretty wahabi honestly, I don't trust a lot of "Sunni" websites as most of them are filled with wahabi propagandaists. Now if the scholars themselves are saying it then I would take their word as long as they provide proof and explanation over some random forum member because honestly we don't know who that forum member is he could be some nutcase extremist trying to distort the view of Sunni Islam and trying to cause fitnah between peace loving Sunnis and Shias. I think its pretty clear that the majority of Muslims agree that killing one another over sectarian differences is forbidden. Evidence of this is found in Quran, Sunnah and Ijma rulings. The Amman message of 2005 is one of the more recent consensus rulings of Sunnis and Shias being bretheren in faith. This ruling also made it forbidden to make takfir against each other so with that being said I think its pretty clear that murdering one another is forbidden in any case. The Quran says to kill an innocent person is like killing all of mankind it didn't make any distinctions between Sunni, Shia or Muslim, Non Muslim. If these so called Muslims are saying its ok to murder Shias then they themselves reject Quranic teachings and have taken themselves out of the fold of Islam and cant be held as credible.

[Al-Hassan]

I thought Sunniforum was pretty wahabi honestly, I don't trust a lot of "Sunni" websites as most of them are filled with wahabi propagandaists. Now if the scholars themselves are saying it then I would take their word as long as they provide proof and explanation over some random forum member because honestly we don't know who that forum member is he could be some nutcase extremist trying to distort the view of Sunni Islam and trying to cause fitnah between peace loving Sunnis and Shias. I think its pretty clear that the majority of Muslims agree that killing one another over sectarian differences is forbidden. Evidence of this is found in Quran, Sunnah and Ijma rulings. The Amman message of 2005 is one of the more recent consensus rulings of Sunnis and Shias being bretheren in faith. This ruling also made it forbidden to make takfir against each other so with that being said I think its pretty clear that murdering one another is forbidden in any case. The Quran says to kill an innocent person is like killing all of mankind it didn't make any distinctions between Sunni, Shia or Muslim, Non Muslim. If these so called Muslims are saying its ok to murder Shias then they themselves reject Quranic teachings and have taken themselves out of the fold of Islam and cant be held as credible.

You right. One must take into consideration that Salafis and wahabis can easily blend in their forums. Ideally , Sunniforum is meant to reflect on the views of Sunnis only and reject any beliefs affiliated with salafis or wahabis. The odd thing is, the most active member in attacking Shia islam on there is "Tripolisunni" who at the same time is a big fan of ibn taymiyah and other salafi scholars. The problem is, the sunni laymen on there, instead of refuting his salafi beliefs they have been busy being deceived and brainwashed from his anti-shia propaganda. The same might go with the owner of the salafi channel I posted a link to earlier who propagates the same hatred towards Shias. He most likely is a salafi/wahabi but acting outwardly as a Sunni. The problem is, the laymen sunnis cannot distinguish a true sunni from a salafi. They think they both share the same beliefs. However, the knowledgeable sunni scholars can distinguish between the two , and as you stated, if they believe that Shias are muslim then I will take their word and accept it even if I see a sunni brainwashed with salafi beliefs propagating hate towards shias and wanting to kill them online.

[NonsectarianMuslim]

Also don't take the acts of a few idiotic people as representative of the entire Sunni population I in no way believe that most Sunnis feel that killing Shias or anyone for that matter as halal, it goes against the basic teachings of Islam and any Muslim who has even read the Quran once should know this

[Al-Hassan]

Also don't take the acts of a few idiotic people as representative of the entire Sunni population I in no way believe that most Sunnis feel that killing Shias or anyone for that matter as halal, it goes against the basic teachings of Islam and any Muslim who has even read the Quran once should know this

Also don't take the acts of a few idiotic people as representative of the entire Sunni population I in no way believe that most Sunnis feel that killing Shias or anyone for that matter as halal, it goes against the basic teachings of Islam and any Muslim who has even read the Quran once should know this

I agree. But we can also say that a good chunk of them are brainwashed on shia islam from salafi propagandists. Maybe those "few idiotic people" have been brainwashed too much? Allahu a'lam.

Salam, Sunnis themselves have discussed this in their forums. See their thread: http://islamic-forum...opic=18473&st=0

Salam, Sunnis themselves have discussed this in their forums. See their thread: http://islamic-forum...opic=18473&st=0

jazakallah for the link. Although, I think a good portion of the members on that forum declared takfeer on shias.

[NonsectarianMuslim]

I agree, many have been brainwashed by propaganda. Ive met even good Sunnis who thought Shias were Kufar. I just tell those types to go ask a Shia about their beliefs

[:Ruffles]

I agree, many have been brainwashed by propaganda. Ive met even good Sunnis who thought Shias were Kufar. I just tell those types to go ask a Shia about their beliefs

Unfortunately a lot of Sunnis think Shias do taqqiya 100% of the time -.-' so annoying.... I seriously know people who say this... Can't reason with them lol it was probably one of the first things I heard about Shias.

[NonsectarianMuslim]

I've been told Shias pray to rocks,beat themselves, lie and worship Imam Ali

[:Ruffles]

I've been told Shias pray to rocks,beat themselves, lie and worship Imam Ali

Lol I've been told that as well as that they have building that resonate evil, eat little kids, have a day in the year where they do one night stands, have a month where they literally cut themselves off from society and be sad all the time, and believe the Quran is incomplete...

[NonsectarianMuslim]

I haven't heard the one night stand or eat little kids one that's new to me

[ayyub83]

I've been told Shias pray to rocks,beat themselves, lie and worship Imam Ali

It's funny that the attack tactics used by those with in Islam against Shia are the same attack tactics used by non-muslims, espescially the Christian right, against Muslims.

[:Ruffles]

I haven't heard the one night stand or eat little kids one that's new to me

Really? The one night stand one is something I heard a couple of times... I think I was told they eat kids just to be scared of them tho lol unfortunately I was told some of these things about Shia family friends I have from other family friends :/ of course none of it is true but desi people like to gossip

[NonsectarianMuslim]

I go to a desi masjid I know all about the gossip lol but no the one night stand one is new to me with propaganda like that I'm sure plenty of guys are signing up for that one

[Akbar673]

It seems Indo/Pak Sunnis are much more hating of Shia than any other. I've heard stories about Saudi and Indonesia but it seems the deep down hatred is stronger in the Pakistan/India more area than anywhere else.

Also, I think the biggest problem that we encounter is that Sunni tend to lump all of the qualities of all of the Shia sects (Alawi, Bohra, Ismaili, etc...)together and believe that all Shia believe the same things. i.e. I think its Ismailis that are supposd to be under taqiyya 24/7 and thus they believe that all Shia are under it all the time.

Its just a terrible mess but the biggest thing that I have a problem with is that the Moderate Sunnis that don't believe in the "Shia Kafir" nonsense don't stand up. That's half the problem in my opinion. Not telling the extremists to stop killing Shia. Half of the blame for the Shia dying throughout the world is a result of Moderate Sunni just standing by idly watching our blood flow.

[Robin Hood]

On Sunniforum, they have posted fatwas from their Imams declaring Shias as kuffar. Also, Sunniforum is a Hanafi forum.

[Al-Hassan]

Lol I've been told that as well as that they have building that resonate evil, eat little kids, have a day in the year where they do one night stands, have a month where they literally cut themselves off from society and be sad all the time, and believe the Quran is incomplete...

Lol I've been told that as well as that they have building that resonate evil, eat little kids, have a day in the year where they do one night stands, have a month where they literally cut themselves off from society and be sad all the time, and believe the Quran is incomplete...

Salam sister. I assume you are a revert who converted to shia ifrom sunni based on your posts correct? Would you say that the fake propaganda against Shias that you and "nonsecterianMuslim" were discussing made you curios about what Shia Islam truly is and look into it more which eventually lead you to the truth? Was it a motivation of some sort? Just curios, because if that is the case, then there might be some wisdom behind the lies that the wahabis propagate against us which leads their followers to become curious about Shia Islam and eventually find the truth like you did.

It seems Indo/Pak Sunnis are much more hating of Shia than any other. I've heard stories about Saudi and Indonesia but it seems the deep down hatred is stronger in the Pakistan/India more area than anywhere else.

Also, I think the biggest problem that we encounter is that Sunni tend to lump all of the qualities of all of the Shia sects (Alawi, Bohra, Ismaili, etc...)together and believe that all Shia believe the same things. i.e. I think its Ismailis that are supposd to be under taqiyya 24/7 and thus they believe that all Shia are under it all the time.

Its just a terrible mess but the biggest thing that I have a problem with is that the Moderate Sunnis that don't believe in the "Shia Kafir" nonsense don't stand up. That's half the problem in my opinion. Not telling the extremists to stop killing Shia. Half of the blame for the Shia dying throughout the world is a result of Moderate Sunni just standing by idly watching our blood flow.

It seems Indo/Pak Sunnis are much more hating of Shia than any other. I've heard stories about Saudi and Indonesia but it seems the deep down hatred is stronger in the Pakistan/India more area than anywhere else.

Also, I think the biggest problem that we encounter is that Sunni tend to lump all of the qualities of all of the Shia sects (Alawi, Bohra, Ismaili, etc...)together and believe that all Shia believe the same things. i.e. I think its Ismailis that are supposd to be under taqiyya 24/7 and thus they believe that all Shia are under it all the time.

Its just a terrible mess but the biggest thing that I have a problem with is that the Moderate Sunnis that don't believe in the "Shia Kafir" nonsense don't stand up. That's half the problem in my opinion. Not telling the extremists to stop killing Shia. Half of the blame for the Shia dying throughout the world is a result of Moderate Sunni just standing by idly watching our blood flow.

Really? Aside from the wahabis and salalfis I actually thought that the indo-pak sunni community like the Barelvis and the rest of the Sufi groups are more tolerant to Shias than than sunni Arabs and Indonesians are. Plus if you go check out the Ant-Shia arabic youtube channels that are hosted by mostly Saudi wahabi/salafis, you can clearly see how they declare the Shias blood to be halal. For example, I was watching a video showing a footage of a car bomb explode in Iraq and it had a high rating with the comments cursing Shias and calling out to kill them. But then again, words can be said by any one and not necessarily applied practically, especially from ignorant hate mongers who spend most of their time on the internet calling for the death of shias online but when it comes to the practical life, they would not dare lay one finger on them.

[Akbar673]

Really? Aside from the wahabis and salalfis I actually thought that the indo-pak sunni community like the Barelvis and the rest of the Sufi groups are more tolerant to Shias than than sunni Arabs and Indonesians are. Plus if you go check out the Ant-Shia arabic youtube channels that are hosted by mostly Saudi wahabi/salafis, you can clearly see how they declare the Shias blood to be halal. For example, I was watching a video showing a footage of a car bomb explode in Iraq and it had a high rating with the comments cursing Shias and calling out to kill them. But then again, words can be said by any one and not necessarily applied practically, especially from ignorant hate mongers who spend most of their time on the internet calling for the death of shias online but when it comes to the practical life, they would not dare lay one finger on them.

In my opinion, illiterate Indo/Paks are no better than the Mid-East Salafi/Wahabbis. They blindly and stupidly believe in all of the propoganda that is pumped out of the Arab. Peninsula. Through their stupidity they take it a step further even. Violence against Shias is at its max in Pakistan and its slowly infecting India.

At least the Arab Shia haters have some Islamic knowledge. The ones in Indo/Pak are illiterate for the most part (Islamically and overall).

[Invoker]

(bismillah)

Salam

When I say Sunnis, I am not making a generalization to include Salafis and Wahabis inside the fold of your sect. Wahabis and Salafis are corrupt ideologies and their follower are predominately Kuffar :shaytan:and their view on killing Shias is clear. However, the Sunni view on killing Shia is still controversial.

That being said, I am specifically asking Sunnis who adhere themselves to one of the four madhabs. According to one of the major Sunni websites online; Sunnipath.com, their scholars state that Shias are considered inside the fold of Islam as it can be confirmed by the two links below from their website.

http://spa.qibla.com...ID=9787&CATE=24

http://qa.sunnipath....ID=13662&CATE=1

However, words and fatwas can be said but not necessarily applied. In this case, according to Sunnipath we are considered to be Muslims but the same scholars who issued these fatwas have not condemned the Shia killings that occur regularly in Pakistan and Iraq! On top of that, the adherents of their sect have a contrary view to what their scholars say and it can easily be confirmed on you tube where most of the video coming from the followers of their sect promote hatred towards Shias. Here is a link below of a sample channel , most likely being sunni that promote hate towards Shias in the most gruesome ways. Just read the comments and you can confirm for yourself.

Now some of them might ask that it's the other way around, where you have the oppressor Shia Assad killing the oppressed Sunnis in Syrian. Ok then based on their logic, we Shias can safely say that all of Sunnis are terrorists for blowing up Shias in Iraq and Pakistan. I can also say they are terrorists because thousands of Shias were killed by the Sunni Saddam hussien.

In regards to that last statement above, the point being, you cannot use the flaws from Bashar Al-Assad and Khamanie alone to generalize the entire body of the Shia population. That's like saying all Muslims are responsible for 9-11 as well.

Now back to the original question. What is the real stance of the Sunnis when it comes to killing Shias? Do you believe that killing Shias is halal? It is a simple yes or no answer. Moreover, Staying silent on such matters is no different than accepting it.

If the answer is NO, then I can safely say that the majority of your adherents to your sect online are deviated for not reflecting on the beliefs of their knowledgeable scholars, for example the ones from Sunniforums who believe that Shias are muslim. That being said, what good is a sect if most of their adherents are deviated and do not reflect on the beliefs and fatwas of their scholars?. If the answer is yes, that killing Shias is considered halal based on your classical books, then your scholars are using Taqiyya. Simple.

(wasalam)

No sunni OR wahabi OR Ibadi has the right to kill any of the member of shia community. NO FATWA whether from wahabi, sunni, ibadi, shia or whatever can over rule the decision of the Holy Quran. The Holy Quran clearly states the circumstances in which a person is to be killed i.e If he commits murder & when he is in war with the muslims & the lateral comes in the context of Jihad. To know the price of a human life one should read the Holy Quran instead of asking it from a fake mufti. As far as the shia killings in Pakistan is concerned we dnt know who is behind it. Blaming a particular group is very easy. The israeli & indian agencies are working against Pakistani interests. I ask u.. WHO IS THE BENEFICIARY OF THE INSTABILITY CAUSED IN THIS REGION??? can u quantify the loss our country bears when a Blast occurs?? the hatred among religious clans is on the peak & it will rise further if we dnt put an end to it. If Sunni scolars or Wahabi scholars have issued a fatwa to kill shias than y didnt shia scholars issued a counter fatwa in response??? Dont lie & misguide innocent people over here. Not everyone is DUMB. Promote peace or if u cant than atleast dont show hatred.

[Brained]

I think opinion over it differs across the Sunni world. Over here, in Pakistan, deobandis claim they are Sunnis, and say they follow Hanafi School of thought. They clearly do not have any problem over Shia killing. In fact, the likes of Sipah sahaba and other deobandi organisations are the leading cause of Shia killing and anti-Shia propaganda, and they claim to represent the Sunnis. On the other hand, many who adhere to barelwi beliefs or are simply "sunnis" do not agree with that. Some Sunnis have time and again sided with Shias in protests against the killing.

[Hot hot]

True here in India Sunnis are much more illiterate they don't even know whats the parents name of rasool saws lol and has much more hatred against us specially because of our matam.

[andleeb ali ahmad]

Replying to Sunnis. Do You Believe That Killing Shias Is Halal

WHAT AN IDIOTIC TOPIC IS THIS NEITHER AM SHIA NOR CUNNI AM MUSLIM AND LOVER OF AHL E BAYT STOP EARNING MONEY BY ENTERING THIS KINDS OF TOPIC AND MAINTAINING THIS KINDS OF SITE

[Akbar673]

Replying to Sunnis. Do You Believe That Killing Shias Is Halal

WHAT AN IDIOTIC TOPIC IS THIS NEITHER AM SHIA NOR CUNNI AM MUSLIM AND LOVER OF AHL E BAYT STOP EARNING MONEY BY ENTERING THIS KINDS OF TOPIC AND MAINTAINING THIS KINDS OF SITE

Troll

[shikran]

True here in India Sunnis are much more illiterate they don't even know whats the parents name of rasool saws lol and has much more hatred against us specially because of our matam.

how funny "literate" shias r who even dont knw where their 12th imam is...

i ask a simple questions to rafidha.. if some one use abusive language against ur beloved mother ? wht wuld b ur first reaction ?

[Al-Hussayni]

how funny "literate" shias r who even dont knw where their 12th imam is...

i ask a simple questions to rafidha.. if some one use abusive language against ur beloved mother ? wht wuld b ur first reaction ?

We don't 'abuse' anyone but we only state the facts & make it clear to you. Come out of your misguidance, the door of wilayah is open for all.

[Akbar673]

how funny "literate" shias r who even dont knw where their 12th imam is...

i ask a simple questions to rafidha.. if some one use abusive language against ur beloved mother ? wht wuld b ur first reaction ?

We don't know where the 12th Imam (as) is because he is in hiding and no one knows where he is. That's why its called Ghaibah. You should research the Shia beliefs before you come and ask a question like that. Its in all of our published beliefs. Google it.

I wasn't aware that love of Ayesha/Hafsa was a requirement to get into Heaven. Is it ? If so then please provide a credible source to confirm that. By credible I mean either a Sahih Hadith or from an established Scholar. Not a current scholar that no one has heard from nor from a posting on a Sunni internet forum/website.

[Ugly Jinn]

We don't know where the 12th Imam (as) is because he is in hiding and no one knows where he is. That's why its called Ghaibah. You should research the Shia beliefs before you come and ask a question like that. Its in all of our published beliefs. Google it.

But that's the problem, it's such a convenient way to deflect confirmation. "He's here, just don't know where". On top of that, he is not even mentioned in the Quran.

If a religion XYZ states, "We have a divine agent physically alive right now, his name is "Samar", it is written in some of our fallible books, he will guide us, we can't confirm it, but this is our belief". As a Shia, how seriously would you take "Samar" without any evidence provided at this time of his present existence?

Edited February 21, 2013 by Ugly Jinn

[Jahangiram]

But that's the problem, it's such a convenient way to deflect confirmation. "He's here, just don't know where". On top of that, he is not even mentioned in the Quran.

If a religion XYZ states, "We have a divine agent physically alive right now, his name is "Samar", it is written in some of our fallible books, he will guide us, we can't confirm it, but this is our belief". As a Shia, how seriously would you take "Samar" without any evidence provided at this time of his present existence?

Why the hell are you putting your nose in this topic, you're not even sure God exists.

[Hot hot]

how funny "literate" shias r who even dont knw where their 12th imam is...

i ask a simple questions to rafidha.. if some one use abusive language against ur beloved mother ? wht wuld b ur first reaction ?

our mother is after our imams a.s, Sunnis are just illiterate last day they were doing Jashn e ghaus and none of them knew exactly who he was, You people need to educate your qaum because you have plenty of jahils.

[Ali Musaaa :)]

how funny "literate" shias r who even dont knw where their 12th imam is...

i ask a simple questions to rafidha.. if some one use abusive language against ur beloved mother ? wht wuld b ur first reaction ?

Aiasha insulted Khadijah in front of the Messenger himself (sawa), questioning why as to why he mentions her when 'Allah has given you someone better than her in her place?'

See the audacity? So what is your reaction when the Mother of the Belivers insults Khajidja?

Edited February 22, 2013 by Ali Musaaa :)

[shikran]

We don't know where the 12th Imam (as) is because he is in hiding and no one knows where he is. That's why its called Ghaibah. You should research the Shia beliefs before you come and ask a question like that. Its in all of our published beliefs. Google it.

thats y i said how "literate" shias r....Ghaibah .. y is he in Ghaibah ? did Hazrat Ali RA (Shair-e-Khuda) nd Hazrat Hussain RA prefer ghaibah over the Shahadat..? didnt they face every tough moments in their life like a true brave man ? y ur imam Mahdi forget the sunnah of Shair e khuda and Hazrat Husain RA ?

I wasn't aware that love of Ayesha/Hafsa was a requirement to get into Heaven. Is it ? If so then please provide a credible source to confirm that. By credible I mean either a Sahih Hadith or from an established Scholar. Not a current scholar that no one has heard from nor from a posting on a Sunni internet forum/website.

i wuld only say "sawal ghandam jawab channa"

our mother is after our imams a.s, Sunnis are just illiterate last day they were doing Jashn e ghaus and none of them knew exactly who he was, You people need to educate your qaum because you have plenty of jahils.

whts jashn e ghaus..? oh brailvis who r v closer to shia beliefs lol..

i hav asked a simple question nd wuld like to repeate it again .. wht wud b ur first reaction if someone use abusive language abt ur beloved mother ?