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Rational Thinking

If Muhammed Pbuh Split The Moon..

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Listen sheikh,

Your previous post was insulting mola as, either ask for forgiveness from mola as or take Allahs wrath because he won't help you.

Just because your post was locked and yes it was locked because of your stupid yazeedi answer doesn't mean I will tolerate your stupidness..

No one knows what mola looked like and I don't believe man can even bother trying to describe what he looked like so if you have nothing useful to say don't bother!

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Miracles do not have to be scientifically accurate. In fact, a miracle is meant to sometimes bend the laws of science. Either you believe in it or you don't.

I am not questioning the miraculous power of this event. I am merely questioning the historical evidence.

No-one has any right to believe any miracle occured without evidence. If someone split the moon , were there numerous sighting of this and numerous traditions across a certain portion of the world ?

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What makes you assume that the people from other regions were permitted to see? Do you not think that the moon is not visible sometimes? If it is possible that the moon can be non-visible then what stops you from believing that Allah did not permit other nations to see it?

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I dont understand why this is still even a topic of discussion. I think that, some things are meant to be taken literally, but the moon splitting in half is pushing it a bit. Surely there are alternative interpretations.

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I dont understand why this is still even a topic of discussion. I think that, some things are meant to be taken literally, but the moon splitting in half is pushing it a bit. Surely there are alternative interpretations.

And which of us is willing to go against the established view and put forth something completely opposite?

From a scientific point of view of course, the splitting of the moon would have caused all sorts of problems especially given the relationship between the moon and the tides...

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there are many hadiths with his (as) attributes and many of them have the reason for him being that way if you would like i could share them with you.

dont forget me in your prayers

I don't believe in man made fabricated hadiths, and I certainly don't want you to show me any. I don't believe people who came centuries later knew what mola as looked like.

Edited by shia4life

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And which of us is willing to go against the established view and put forth something completely opposite?

From a scientific point of view of course, the splitting of the moon would have caused all sorts of problems especially given the relationship between the moon and the tides...

We all can. We are not incapable of forming our own ideas.

Often we hear, as a matter of fact a topic was just made about this, i think yesterday in the interfaith section. It was about muslims turning to authority (imams) and using their words to derive truth, rather than using our own minds.

We all have the ability. In this very topic, people are asking, why do we not have more people partaking in debates?

It is not a question of if we can or cannot. You said, which one of us is willing to go against the established view and put forth something completely opposite?

It is not opposite. Many people are willing to test these ideas in their truthfullness. It is the people who arent willing to invest time into critique, that are the wrong doers.

With that, I make my post here, challenging this commonly held idea that the moon was split in half. I, as well as others, are surely willing to discuss it in full.

Really, we already challenge commonly held ideas. Shias challange sunnis all the time. So, challenging commonly held ideas, is nothing new to us. It is just figuring out what Ideas to challenge, and why.

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We all can. We are not incapable of forming our own ideas.

Often we hear, as a matter of fact a topic was just made about this, i think yesterday in the interfaith section. It was about muslims turning to authority (imams) and using their words to derive truth, rather than using our own minds.

We all have the ability. In this very topic, people are asking, why do we not have more people partaking in debates?

It is not a question of if we can or cannot. You said, which one of us is willing to go against the established view and put forth something completely opposite?

It is not opposite. Many people are willing to test these ideas in their truthfullness. It is the people who arent willing to invest time into critique, that are the wrong doers.

With that, I make my post here, challenging this commonly held idea that the moon was split in half. I, as well as others, are surely willing to discuss it in full.

Oh I agree. My point was that the majority of people are quite happy to conform to such beliefs rather than challenge anything. What I didn't mean is that we're incapable of doing so.

So..how would you describe this miracle?

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Oh I agree. My point was that the majority of people are quite happy to conform to such beliefs rather than challenge anything. What I didn't mean is that we're incapable of doing so.

So..how would you describe this miracle?

Well, in all honesty, I am new to Islam. So in order for me to figure out how Id support this miracle, I would need a few things.

The good thing about being a non believer at the time, you could find hundreds of other non believers, and we could always compete with eachother, and test ideas and test them against theists.

You could find ideas because they were already being used.

In Islam though, many ideas that, make sense to me, seem to be, less in use, or not in use at all. Like you said "we're incapable of doing so".

I think we are capable, we just have to try a bit more. Just because the majority of people are not, doesnt mean we cant.

Because the majority are not, that hurts our ability to figure things out, but it doesnt make it impossible.

So, in order for me to figure out how I would describe the miracle, I would seek out people who have an interest in discussing it, and I would toss around ideas, like I am now.

Sorry I cannot help more, but I plan to help more in the future, when I have the knowledge to.

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"It has not been said of any people on the earth that the moon was observed that night such that it could be stated that it was not split. Even if this had been reported from many different places, so that one would have to exclude the possibility that all agreed upon a lie, yet, we would not accept this as proof to the contrary, for the moon is not seen in the same way by different people.... An eclipse is visible in one country but not in the other one; in one place it is total, in the other one only partial."

Just googling around.

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Are you familiar with the topic enough to present a position?

If so, we could work up some ideas right now.

I know enough, but there's always room to learn.

1. Was it a metaphor ie. the truth is as clear as the moon

2. Did it happen as an actual event? If so it doesn't necessarily hold that others across the world would have needed to seen it eg Allah could have 'blinded' them to it.

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I know enough, but there's always room to learn.

1. Was it a metaphor ie. the truth is as clear as the moon

2. Did it happen as an actual event? If so it doesn't necessarily hold that others across the world would have needed to seen it eg Allah could have 'blinded' them to it.

I think it's dishonesty to attribute everything as a 'metaphor'. There are people claiming Muhammed pbuh split the moon. If he did, and it was a miracle, then Allah swt would not 'hide' it from anyone. It would be there for all to see. Thus, we need accounts of people at least in the middle-eastern part of the world accounting this occurrence, because it would be quite a monumental sight.

The issue is, are there these historical accounts?

I am not debating whether or not he split the moon or how he did it. If it's a miracle , it's a miracle. But we need evidence a miracle actually happened.

If i claim i made the starts turn into my name , and there is no accounts from different places of this event, there is no reason to believe it.

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I think it's dishonesty to attribute everything as a 'metaphor'. There are people claiming Muhammed pbuh split the moon. If he did, and it was a miracle, then Allah swt would not 'hide' it from anyone. It would be there for all to see. Thus, we need accounts of people at least in the middle-eastern part of the world accounting this occurrence, because it would be quite a monumental sight.

The issue is, are there these historical accounts?

I am not debating whether or not he split the moon or how he did it. If it's a miracle , it's a miracle. But we need evidence a miracle actually happened.

If i claim i made the starts turn into my name , and there is no accounts from different places of this event, there is no reason to believe it.

I agree. The way I see it, if it were hidden from people, as evidence is hidden from us now, it seems likely that it didnt happen in the sense that some people may believe. I also wouldnt necessarily say it were a metaphor either.

Why was the moon split to begin with? If it was to show people truth in Islam, then I dont see any reason to believe it would be hidden from everyone.

It seems to me that, this idea of an eclipse would be a more likely case for the event.

I looked around for alternative witnesses. I didnt find any, though, maybe others may know of some.

Are there any arguments against the event being a witnessed eclipse?

Edited by iDevonian

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I think it's dishonesty to attribute everything as a 'metaphor'. There are people claiming Muhammed pbuh split the moon. If he did, and it was a miracle, then Allah swt would not 'hide' it from anyone. It would be there for all to see. Thus, we need accounts of people at least in the middle-eastern part of the world accounting this occurrence, because it would be quite a monumental sight.

The issue is, are there these historical accounts?

I am not debating whether or not he split the moon or how he did it. If it's a miracle , it's a miracle. But we need evidence a miracle actually happened.

If i claim i made the starts turn into my name , and there is no accounts from different places of this event, there is no reason to believe it.

I agree. The way I see it, if it were hidden from people, as evidence is hidden from us now, it seems likely that it didnt happen in the sense that some people may believe. I also wouldnt necessarily say it were a metaphor either.

Why was the moon split to begin with? If it was to show people truth in Islam, then I dont see any reason to believe it would be hidden from everyone.

It seems to me that, this idea of an eclipse would be a more likely case for the event.

I looked around for alternative witnesses. I didnt find any, though, maybe others may know of some.

Are there any arguments against the event being a witnessed eclipse?

Aside from a somewhat less than authentic report of an Indian king seeing the splitting of the moon there isn't anything else.

And it was specifically for the Quraish, rather than mankind as a whole.

The idea it was an eclipse has been raised as one possibility.

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Aside from a somewhat less than authentic report of an Indian king seeing the splitting of the moon there isn't anything else.

And it was specifically for the Quraish, rather than mankind as a whole.

The idea it was an eclipse has been raised as one possibility.

No words.

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I am not debating whether or not he split the moon or how he did it. If it's a miracle , it's a miracle. But we need evidence a miracle actually happened.

If i claim i made the starts turn into my name , and there is no accounts from different places of this event, there is no reason to believe it.

I would say that we have solved this case then.

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