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In the Name of God بسم الله

Against Assad = For Fsa

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I support neither.

I am not pro-Assad and neither for FSA. But the real Syrian Sunnis not under the influence of wahhabism/salafism deserved to be free from Bashar al-Assad regime and decide their own future and rule th

I agree with Haydar Husayn . This reminds me of Bush when he said you are with us or against us. There is no such thing. There are many sides and I will pick neither.

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^ It still doesn't justify his actions.

(wasalam)

Yes, shows the mistake the FSA and the anti bashar movement is doing. Anyways bashar will soon go and then you will see that the syrians will wish they accepted to negotiate with him. May Allah swt guide you and me and everyone towards the righteous path. Thank you for listening brother.

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Salams my dear brothers and sisters,

Last week Iran said that is considers the toppling of Assad a red line that should not be crossed.

The conflict has now left over 60,000 dead, almost all of them Muslims killed by the dictatorial regime that has denied the Syrians freedom for over 40 years.

Iran knows how bad a dictatoship is...Iran, alhamdulillah, got rid of its dictator, the Shah over 30 years ago...so why is it helping the current Baathist Assad whose family has been ruling Syria for the past 40 years?

Please speak out (instead of finding excuses) against the Assad regime in perpetuating their dictatorial regime and to stop assisting the Assad regime in killing the Syrians struggling for freedom.

مَّن يَشْفَعْ شَفَـعَةً حَسَنَةً يَكُنْ لَّهُ نَصِيبٌ مِّنْهَا

وَمَن يَشْفَعْ شَفَـعَةً سَيِّئَةً يَكُنْ لَّهُ كِفْلٌ مَّنْهَا

(Surah Nisa)

Well over 60,000 Syrians have been killed, most of them Muslim Syrians killed by the Assad regime.

The Assad regime has been worse than Israel.

91,000 Palestinians have been killed since the 1900s related to Israel (so in over 110 years) but 60,000 already killed because of Assad regime in just 2 years and the killings keep increasing day by day, night by night.

source:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/casualtiestotal.html

The Syrians marched for peace and for the right to be freed from this family dictatorship for 1 full year but the protesters were met with bullets to their heads.

After a full year of this, then the Syrian men, women, and children said enough is enough.

Please don't blame the victims....please have enough decency not to do that.

It is against the most basic essence of Islam that you cannot support an oppressor.

If you make a defense treaty with an entity, according to the most basic of basic teachings of the Qur'an, you can only help that entity if that entity is the victim. The Assad regime is not the victim...the Assad regime did not deserve to be dictators over the people of Syria and the Assad regime are the clear aggressors towards the people.

The Prophet and Imam Ali would have supported the people of Syria against the Assad Regime 100 percent.

I am not saying that this conflict is 100% black or white. No conflict EVER was 100% black or white. Even in the Prophet's time, Usama killed someone who had said the Shahada. Usama said that he said it to avoid being killed. But Allah revealed a verse saying that it was wrong. Does that wrong incident mean that the Prophet should have never struggled against the Quraish? The Prophet scolded Usama by asking him, "Did you cut open his heart and see what was in it to know that his utterance of the shahada was false?"

Ayaotollah Montazeri ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussein-Ali_Montazeri ) who was slated to be the successor to Ayotallah Khomeini noticed massive human rights violations by the Revolution....he complained to Ayotollah Khomeini

And because of an incident of a teenage girl who was hanged or schedule to be hanged, Ayotollah Montazeri even told Ayotollah Khomeini that by some standards, human rights is worse under the Revolution than the Shah's regime. That comment went too far for Ayotollah Khomeini and Montazeri was maligned ever since.

So, because of the human rights abuses and excesses by the Revolution, does that mean the Shah should have never been removed?

As Allah says, "What is [wrong] with you? How do you make judgement?"

This conflict is not 100% Black and White....however, the side we should be completely on is 100% clear....that is the side of the Syrian people struggling despite tens of thousands of deaths, despite tortures, despite 100,000 arrests of their dear family members from the Assad regime.

The Prophet Muhammad and Imam Ali would have been 100% on the side of the Syrian men, women, and children instead of making lame excuses to be on the side of the illegitimate oppressors.

My dear brothers and sisters, sometimes those we perceive to be on our side our not always on the right side.

May Allah guide us all to be for justice even if it against ourselves or those we (wrongly) perceive to be "on our team."

O you who believe! be maintainers of justice, bearers of witness of Allah's sake, though it may be against your own selves or (your) parents or near relatives; if he be rich or poor, Allah is nearer to them both in compassion; therefore do not follow (your) low desires, lest you deviate; and if you swerve or turn aside, then surely Allah is aware of what you do.

Surah 4, Verse 135

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Of course we should support the peace and security the Syrians are seeking...but the Syrians are also seeking freedom from a tyranny.

For one year they have been marching throughout Syria demanding that just like the Tunisians, the Egyptians, the Libyans, they too must live in freedom but they were greeted with bullets to their heads.

Imam Husain is reported to have said at the time of Karbala something to the effect of... it is better to die in a just struggle than to live in (continuous) subjugation

(this is from my memory, please correct me if the attributed saying is different).

The Syrians will achieve much more freedom once the Baathist regime that has been cruelly ruling over their parents and them is removed from power.

This Baathist regime also is one which never prays to Allah, does not read ever or care about what the Qur'an says , and that essentially believes that Allah was incarnated in the form of a man like the belief of the Christians.

Jews have a much better concept of Tawhid than this Baathist tyranny of the Assad regime.

If Iran and Hezbollah stops supporting the regime, that will help end the conflict sooner and bring peace and security and freedom for the Syrian people.

The question is what are we doing to help speak out against the massive support Iran and Hezbollah is providing.

We must stand up for justice whether it means speaking against our team's jersey or not.

"O you who believe! be maintainers of justice, bearers of witness of Allah's sake, though it may be against your own selves or (your) parents or near relatives; if he be rich or poor, Allah is nearer to them both in compassion; therefore do not follow (your) low desires, lest you deviate; and if you swerve or turn aside, then surely Allah is aware of what you do." Surah 4, verse 135

Allah will ask us and take us into account on Judgement Day if we spoke out in favor of justice for the Syrians seeking freedom and if we had the courage and decency to speak against the support that Iran and Hezbollah is providing to the oppressors over the Muslim majority...or did we we try to publicly obscure the matter by distracting the public from the issue of freedom and justice.

Do we care about our soul's eternal destiny and are we willing to speak up for justice or are we should we instead cling for earthly blind sectarianism?

As I mentioned before there was never absolute good and absolute evil sides....but the side that is relatively on the side of justice is usually apparent....and regarding Syria, it is very clear.

For those of us who are in denial about the 60,000 Syrians killed in this struggle against tyranny, we must be like the person Hurr who at the battle of Karbala had the courage to switch sides for justice.

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Salam,

I really don't understand the logic behind people saying we don't support Bashar and we don't support FSA either. By saying that you're no good to anyone. Its true Bashar Assad has been in power for a long time, perhaps what they say about imprisoning innocent people is true, but keep in mind no one claimed that his government was perfect or even that it was great. The issue at hand right now is that you have an american backed terrorist group targeting Syria so that the west can benefit, and also you have this terrorist group killing Shia and burning mosques. By no means is Bashar like Saddam or any other Arab dictator we've seen, and like the brothers said in the earlier posts he has helped the Muslim nations and there front against the zionist regime. Keep in mind Saudia Arabia is a monarchy that is far more corrupt and oppressive towards its people yet no one cares or really has anything to say. Keep in mind that even when Omar was in power Imam Ali (a.s.) Advised his companions to go forth in battle against the KUFAR, because those were the true enemies of Islam. I advise people not to be distracted or disunite over petty things, we need to look at the big picture here and look to our Ulema (Sayed Khamenei, Sayed Hassan Nasarallah, etc.) for guidance.

Wa Salam

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Saying Assad is a front against Israel is not only a canard but it is also false. He is using his military against killing his own people, NOT for freeing Palestinians.

You said that "we need to look at the big picture here and look to our Ulema (Sayed Khamenei, Sayed Hassan Nasarallah, etc.) for guidance."

No, we must NOT do that if we care for our souls.

4_93.png

And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement.

Sura 4, Verse 93

Please note that tens of thousands of Muslim believers have been killed by these Baathist supporters of the Assad dictatorship.

As the verse 135 of Surah 4 says we must "not follow (your) low desires, lest you deviate"

We must not follow our low desires of following leaders we have been looking up to...we should instead look up to Allah's crystal clear commands.

As Surah 85, also from Surah 4 says "Whoso interveneth in a good cause will have the reward thereof, and whoso interveneth in an evil cause will bear the consequence thereof. Allah overseeth all things."

By supporting the evil decision to help Non-Muslim who believe in Allah incarnating in man kill Muslims in the tens of thousands, we are intervening in an evil cause.

These so called leaders will not help us on Judgement Day.

They should change the name of the "Quds Force" to the "The force for helping the Kuffar kill the Muslims in the tens of thousands"

As Allah clearly tells us at the end of Surah 82, "The day on which no soul shall control anything for (another) soul; and the command on that day shall be entirely Allah's."

If we care for our leaders, we must tell everyone who has any connection to them to stop the policy of supporting Assad and to beg Allah to forgive them for what the complicit role they have taken so far.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Rather than facing it and turning course and getting the forgiveness of Allah as He is oft-forgiving, we must NOT keep digging the hole bigger to justify the horrific crime that is taking place against the Muslim believers and against Allah...and then those partaking in this crime by trying to verbally justify it will be liable on Judgement Day.

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For one year they have been marching throughout Syria demanding that just like the Tunisians, the Egyptians, the Libyans, they too must live in freedom but they were greeted with bullets to their heads.

The Syrians will achieve much more freedom once the Baathist regime that has been cruelly ruling over their parents and them is removed from power.

How do you figure Syrian will achieve more freedom while the 3 countries you mentioned are still in turmoil especially with Tunisia and Egypt making headlines on a daily basis?

For those of us who are in denial about the 60,000 Syrians killed in this struggle against tyranny, we must be like the person Hurr who at the battle of Karbala had the courage to switch sides for justice.

So the estimated # of people which is claimed at 60k are all killed by Assad? What about all those Jihadis videos i see on Liveleak where innocent people are being massacred by FSA/Other brigades? What about Al-Jazeera coverage on the "rebels" staging death and mayhem to gain sympathy? What about Al-Nusra terrorist brigade whom are part parcel of the rebel forces? What about Shiekh Arour statement about going after Syrians who did not support their cause? ................................

We must stand up for justice whether it means speaking against our team's jersey or not.

This would have sounded much more believable if you had placed even a drop of blame on the terrorist organisations but you dont even bother to mention them even while there are atleast 10+ videos i have seen personally of these rebels shooting unarmed/innocent people.

And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement.

Sura 4, Verse 93

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Salam,

Brothers lets put aside the conflict and lets just see what FSA is really doing in Syria.

1) FSA is backed by the most corrupt nations on the face the planet.

a) United States Of America : http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444405804577561482242140956.html

b)Saudi Arabia: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/25/us-syria-crisis-saudi-idUSBRE90O0M120130125

c) Qatar: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/23/us-syria-crisis-saudi-idUSBRE85M04J20120623 (SA & Q, paying salaries to rebels).

d) Britain: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2190587/British-intelligence-enabled-Syrian-rebels-launch-devastating-attacks-President-Assads-regime-official-says.html#axzz2KKzysRtw (Supplying intelligence).

e) France: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/07/france-funding-syrian-rebels

f) Turkey: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/michaelweiss/100159613/syrian-rebels-say-turkey-is-arming-and-training-them/

Ok so now that we have agreed upon who supports the rebels we can move one to phase 2. But before I forget Al-qaeda is also a real good friend of fsa (http://www.globalresearch.ca/syrian-rebels-pledge-allegiance-to-al-qaeda-group-that-killed-u-s-troops/5315363).

So let see what it is exactly that FSA does in syria:

2. Warning videos are graphic.

a) Syrian rebels burn shia mosque:

(And please dont claim that this is just a fake video because every news station in the world is recording this.)

B) Syrian Rebels Execute unarmed men.

(http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/11/30/video-said-to-show-syrian-rebel-executing-unarmed-prisoners/)

C) Syrian rebels use kids to fight gov't

(

)

And the list goes on......... but i think we all get the point.

So as we can see the Rebels arn't the Heroic freedom fighters we all thought them to be. But instead a group thats terrorizing syria, for what reason you may ask? Well ill leave that up to you to find out, but its not too hard to figure out.

I would like to stress the point, that if somehow the syrian rebels take over syria and bring down bashar al assad, dont think for a second peace is to prevail. It will be another terrorist group controlling the country (Ie Afganistan).

Surah 2 verse 11

2_11.png

Sahih International

And when it is said to them, "Do not cause corruption on the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."

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Salams

I mentioned it in my earlier posts that whenever there is a conflict, there is no absolute good and absolute bad sides.

Even in Iran's Islamic revolution, Ayatollah Montazeri (who was supposed to be the successor to Ayatollah Khomeini) criticized the numerous and serious human rights abuses that were taking place under the revolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussein-Ali_Montazeri

Does this mean that the revolution should never have happened, would it have been better with the Shah still in power?

Unfortunately the vast amount of all those killed, tortured, imprisoned, etc. is due to the non-Muslim Assad regime which is unfortunately being propped up to a large extent by Iran and Hezbollah.

It is three simple issues.....

1. The simple issue of knowing primary school arithmetic.

2. The simple issue of knowing the basics of human rights.

Would the democrats be happy if President Bush said that he is not leaving office and that it would be indefinite Bushes for 40+ years?

Would the republicans be happy if Obama said that he is not leaving office and that it would be indefinite Obamas for 40+ years?

3. It is a simple issue of reading and yes, obeying Allah's very simple and crystal clear commandments.

It is not rocket science to know that one cannot kill anyone struggling for their God given rights.

Anything else is sophistry...and trying to shift the attention.

Allah knows this and whoever is continuing to be in denial

...and even worse, those who continue to shift the attention and make excuses for the Assad regime and make excuses for Iran and Hezbollah in helping Assad kill those struggling for their rights....in the final analysis they are only damaging their eternal hereafter.

wasalam.

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I forgot to add that the turmoil in Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya is expected.

Whenever there is political change, there is virtually ALWAYS turmoil.

After the Iranian Islamic Revolution, there was turmoil,...the same when the US got freedom from England....the same after the civil war....the same in virtually any change from monarchies and feudal systems and dictators, etc..

To avoid turmoil would you still prefer Saddam to be in power? The Ummayads to be in power? Do you want the Shah to be in power like Assad is right now....the British still ruling American colonies and the Indian subcontinent...Blacks still as slaves, for South Africa to still be in Apartheid, for their to be a feudal system all over Europe, etc., etc.

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Salams

I mentioned it in my earlier posts that whenever there is a conflict, there is no absolute good and absolute bad sides.

I agree but you are trying your hardest to blame all the ills of Syrian society on the Assad alone. I have yet to see any kind of condemation of the FSA so called "rebels"

Even in Iran's Islamic revolution, Ayatollah Montazeri (who was supposed to be the successor to Ayatollah Khomeini) criticized the numerous and serious human rights abuses that were taking place under the revolution.

http://en.wikipedia....n-Ali_Montazeri

Does this mean that the revolution should never have happened, would it have been better with the Shah still in power?

Ayatollah Montazeri was supposed to be his successor but somewhere during the revolution his vision got skewed. Long history which requires no clarification here but plenty of talking points on this very forum. Like you said "supposed to be successor". Ayatollah Khomenei in his will made sure he doesnt succeed him.

Unfortunately the vast amount of all those killed, tortured, imprisoned, etc. is due to the non-Muslim Assad regime which is unfortunately being propped up to a large extent by Iran and Hezbollah.

Compared to the FSA rebels who are supported by dictators themselves! This is something which needs to be pointed out cause seriously this argument is outright ridiculous. Saudi and Qatar have khalifas who have been in power for decades! The very same Saudi who sent tanks across the bridge to Bahrain to squash the uprisings. When it came to Syria it had a change of heart?

Just today i read that USA has committed more funds towards logistics in Syria. How do you explain that? How do you explain the massive amount of ammunition flowing in to Syria? Do you really want me to start posting senate details and various countries response towards Syria.

2. The simple issue of knowing the basics of human rights.

Would the democrats be happy if President Bush said that he is not leaving office and that it would be indefinite Bushes for 40+ years?

Would the republicans be happy if Obama said that he is not leaving office and that it would be indefinite Obamas for 40+ years?

I fully agree with your point but let me just add that polls conducted by PEW or Gallup (either one, i cant recall exactly) printed by Gulf news showed that Assad is preferred by the majority of Syrian resident. So your point is moot!

However democracy is a basic human right. Do you have any form of commitment from these Rebels or their backers to spread the very same democracy in Qatar, Saudia or Bahrain? Oh wait, i forget these countries are the rebel supporters as long as they stay out of their affairs.

3. It is a simple issue of reading and yes, obeying Allah's very simple and crystal clear commandments.

It is not rocket science to know that one cannot kill anyone struggling for their God given rights.

Anything else is sophistry...and trying to shift the attention.

Bringing God into a discussion and posting Quranic verses does not make your point valid bro. Allah is for all and everyone. Even for those who were wrongly massacred by the FSA "rebels"

I forgot to add that the turmoil in Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya is expected.

Whenever there is political change, there is virtually ALWAYS turmoil.

After the Iranian Islamic Revolution, there was turmoil,...the same when the US got freedom from England....the same after the civil war....the same in virtually any change from monarchies and feudal systems and dictators, etc..

You are missing the point. The issue was leadership. The examples you gave had revolution that were successful but the leadership that followed had no clear goal and was slanted in the favor of minority. Please dont tell me that you believe it was an act of democracy.

You seem very confident that the situation in Syria would change and its residents would be happy. I am simply asking for a blueprint as to how this would be achieved. I only ask because i have yet to see any kind of plan by the opposing party.

Please dont take my views the wrong way. I fully support the choice of the Syrian people and they surely get my empathy as well but i am not buying any of the western rag excuse. The foreign fighters need to be expunged and they should follow the model of Bahraini protesters who patiently committed to their cause without taking arms and ammunition.

Edited by Logic
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Salam Brother Maytham,

I did not see your videos.

I don't enjoy seeing executions.

I recall seeing on the internet of a link of an execution of a general of the Assad regime.

Of course we should prefer a full due process of a court proceedings and so on but don't be surprised that executions occur in chaotic war settings. Some Syrians are having problem getting food. The evil Assad regime attacked multiple bakeries to try to make the situation chaotic in the areas controlled by the Syrian Muslims who have freed themselves from the illegitimate dictatorial regime.

I recall reading that the video shows the person having his head cut off.

If execution by that method is evil, then Imam Ali is supremely evil. He is reported to cut many heads off.

Decapitation by head is probably way less painful than hanging.

By the way, for every atrocity you can show on video, multiply that by many, many, many, many folds to find out what the Assad regime did (Of course we need to multiply more for the past 40 years of the Assad regime). Look at what they did to Hamza Khatib a 13 year old before the Syrian people said enough was enough....the atrocity against Hamza is a drop in the bucket by the Assad regime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=199FSFPpzUY

pixel-vfl3z5WfW.gif

GUIDE
NEW

Cooper: SYRIA Gov tortures children. May 31. Hamza Al Khatib

Or see this random video

pixel-vfl3z5WfW.gif

GUIDE
NEW

You and brother "Logic" are missing the logical and moral and Quranic points and are focusing on moot, irrelevant, gruesome, or the "ends justify the means."

"I agree but you are trying your hardest to blame all the ills of Syrian society on the Assad alone. I have yet to see any kind of condemation of the FSA so called "rebels""

No, I am not trying my "hardest." It's a simple case of people getting their rights regardless if they are Muslims, Christians, Sunnis, Shias, Allawis, Jews, etc., etc.

I don't like someone's mom or dad's head shot in the head just because they want to choose their government.

And by the way, I completely, 100%, absolutely, whole-heartedly condemn any human rights abuses committed by any of the forces resisting Assad's regime whether against any people, any Shia mosques, etc. I have prayed numerous times and I will inshallah continue to pray for all the Syrians to be protected from injustice whether by the Assad regime or whether by the Syrian opposition forces....I pray not only for the Muslims but also for the Allawis, the Christians, etc.

Are you happy now?

Do I have legitimacy to speak now?

By the way, I hope you and Maytham realize that although I am sure atrocities have been done on both sides, the Syrian opposition thus far has not focused on attacking whole populations like the Assad regime is doing.

A huge point you both are missing is that there would have been no violence if Assad and his cronies would have simply given people their due rights and accepted to let them choose their rulers.

By the way, I condemn the atrocities that Palestinians committed against Israeli citizens.

But do I have to preface any condemnation of Israel by that.

You sound like a Zionist journalist.

Whether other countries are supporting the Syrians are a moot point.

By the way, do you know why the Syrian people did not get any heavy weapons?

It is because certain outside powers are not very comfortable with Muslim people getting real weapons to protect themselves.

Do the Syrians want Assad to rule them or not?

It is preposterous to the extreme to think that the Syrian Muslims would want the nonMuslim Baathist illegitimate regime to rule them.

There is no such Pew or Gallop survey that showed that. I recall what you are referring to....that was something completely else.

Pew or Gallop does not have access to do a representative survey across the whole country of Syria and even if they did, someone would have to be insane to think that the respondents would answer the question without worrying about criticizing Assad or his regime. The Syrian regime is known for many years for its torture, secret police, etc. etc.

If there was the slightest sense that the Syrians prefer Assad, then the Assad regime would simply call for impartial elections conducted by impartial international observers.

Using the example of Bahrain, are you saying that the Syrians do not have the right to resist an illegitimate rule. Even after they marched for 1 full year peacefully and had their heads shot with bullets?

Would the Libyans be free of the maniac Khadafi if they did not resist? (by the way the Libyans did not wait 1 year like the Syrians did).

You should work for the Israelis...that it their basic talking point....the Palestinians do not have the international or moral right to resist the rule by Israelis

(by the way, at least the Israelis have a much better concept of Tawhid than the Assad regime...Tawhid is just the most important point emphasized by Allah in the Qur'an...that's all so who cares about that).

"I am simply asking for a blueprint"

"Please dont take my views the wrong way. I fully support the choice of the Syrian people...."

Logic, your request for a blueprint before the Syrian people get their rights is preposterous, immoral, evil, and a major Quranic Sin against Allah and against the Syrian men, women, and children (including the 60,000 Syrians who are now 6 feet underground because of the Assad regime).

Who do you think you are?

Are you God that you deserve to be told a "blueprint" before you are ready to give simple rights to people to not be under a dictator?

I take you as my Muslim brother but you or anyone else have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT TO WITHOLD ANY RIGHT TO ANY HUMAN BEING WHETHER THEY ARE MUSLIM, SHIA, SUNNI, HINDU, ATHEIST, WHATEVER, waiting for a blueprint...before you give that right.

You and Maytham and anyone else can not justify what the Assad regime, Iran, and Hezbollah are doing to the Syrian people.

The ends do not justify the means.....that will have to be explained in another thread.

All I will say is obey and trust Allah. Give people their rights....then deal with hypothetical scenarios when they occur....don't pre-empt it until you and your highness sees the blueprint.

Brother Maytham, brother Logic, you are simply digging your hole of the sin against Allah and against justice deeper and deeper and deeper.

I simply do not want to discuss further on this thread. It is a complete waste of my time. My wife is asking for the third time why I am on the computer instead of fulfilling my obligations to my children.

Life is short. Perhaps you both are much younger than me and just don't get it. I am 41 years old...I don't have time to be repeatedly reminding you all for your own good to be for justice and in obedience to all of Allah's CRYSTAL CLEAR commands regardless of what others say.

You both have your minds made up that you are not willing to give the Syrians their full rights until you see the blueprint of the future and until then they will have to continue being killed and detained and tortured by the thousands...only 5000 died this month, only 100,000 have been arrested so far....small change for your divine right to see the blueprint of the future..they will simply have to suffer indefinitely longer.

Fine. I guess we will find out on Judgement who was right and who was encouraging justice and who was encouraging injustice in public.

Wasalams.

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I recall reading that the video shows the person having his head cut off.

If execution by that method is evil, then Imam Ali is supremely evil. He is reported to cut many heads off.

So you compare the action of Imam Ali (as) with these yazidi terrorist. No wonder your sense of justice is so messed up. Imam Ali (as) took the heads off for 2 reasons

1) War

2) Elected caliph as a qadhi - After due process and sound fiqhi judgement, something he was an expert at.

It was not done for revenge or vigilante reasons. In those times he expressed patience.

By the way, do you know why the Syrian people did not get any heavy weapons?

It is because certain outside powers are not very comfortable with Muslim people getting real weapons to protect themselves.

Yes i know... Its because their supporting forefathers know very well the true nature of these terrorist rebels. If they gave them heavy machinery then they could turn around and bite their behinds so they give them just enough to fuel the fire.

There is no such Pew or Gallop survey that showed that. I recall what you are referring to....that was something completely else.

Doha Debates..Look it up

http://www.thedohadebates.com/news/item/index.asp?n=14312

uptil Jan 2012

According to the latest opinion poll commissioned by The Doha Debates, Syrians are more supportive of their president with 55% not wanting him to resign. One of the main reasons given by those wanting the president to stay in power was fear for the future of the country.

You have a moot point....

Using the example of Bahrain, are you saying that the Syrians do not have the right to resist an illegitimate rule. Even after they marched for 1 full year peacefully and had their heads shot with bullets?

That's not true.The uprising started in mid march and by June (3 short months) FSA militia was already begining to form. By Sept defection between the ranks of Assad had started to form.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war#cite_note-55

You should work for the Israelis...that it their basic talking point....the Palestinians do not have the international or moral right to resist the rule by Israelis

(by the way, at least the Israelis have a much better concept of Tawhid than the Assad regime...Tawhid is just the most important point emphasized by Allah in the Qur'an...that's all so who cares about that).

Work for the israelis? Intresting....

Assad = Sympathetic towards Hizbollah and provides logistical gateway between Iran.

Hizbullah = #1 critic of Israel

Iran = #1 critic of Israel

By removing Assad the western forces are banking on destroying Iran growing influence in the region. So you tell me who do you think is actually working for Israel? those who is favor of this move or those who are against it?

Logic, your request for a blueprint before the Syrian people get their rights is preposterous, immoral, evil, and a major Quranic Sin against Allah and against the Syrian men, women, and children (including the 60,000 Syrians who are now 6 feet underground because of the Assad regime).

Then dont say the situation will get better because past records so far show to this be a sham. Your supporting party MB also doesnt agree with your sense of democracy.

I simply do not want to discuss further on this thread. It is a complete waste of my time. My wife is asking for the third time why I am on the computer instead of fulfilling my obligations to my children.

I agree. My last response was also typed at 5 in the morning. Your views are not only juvenile but misinformed as well.

You and Maytham and anyone else can not justify what the Assad regime, Iran, and Hezbollah are doing to the Syrian people.

Iran has been helping Palestinians for years now but in the Arab world you will be hard pressed to find people accepting this fact. On the issue of Syria it took less then 1 year to put the entire blame on Iran and Hizbullah.

You people are just amazing!

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Salam Abdal Barr,

I appreciate your input, but I have to say I still stand by my view on the issue.

Please avoid comparing Amir Al Momineen to a terrorist group. It is not relevant and I personally take offense to it.

Hamdualla its really good you pray for the people of syria and inshalla you continue to do so.

I would like to mention that the FSA (rebels) (terrorists), do not represent the syrian people. (Brother Logic Proved that in his earlier post.)

What you have to understand is that these rebels did not just spring from out of the protests. They are very well equiped, and prepared and that doesnt just happen out of no where. One example is that these terrorist groups have tunnels into prisons and we both know to accomplish something like that it takes a bit of time. (http://www.topix.com/forum/world/syria/T4MGM3CQD81VC624O)

Also you are right when you say The Assad regime did execute people in which i personally cant justify, but they help provided arms to Palestine and are a pathway from Iran to Hezbulla. Getting rid of the Government will be a major disadvantage to the Muslims fighting against the Zionist regime.

The situation is very complicated in Syria and in cases like these we look to our leaders, the religious scholars, for guidance. Who better to refer to than Sayed Hassan Nasaralla and Sayed Khamanei, these men are very close to the war, have a very good idea of whats going on and more knowledgeable than us when it comes to religious matters. So when they condemn FSA and support the president we have to trust them in their decision.

Please understand that I am not just following blindly but I have also provided you with many links and reasons to why I am against FSA.

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Salam bros! Let's not hide behind our fingers, the reason for your support for Bashar is not because he does good (and we all know he's a brutal dictator), but because you, as a Shia, fear the Wahhabis. Same thing for the rest of the minorities in Syria.

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Logic, I checked out that site. Thanks for clarifying that the this poll was NOT done by a respectable firm like Pew or Gallop but LOL by an internet poll!

According to internet polls, Ron Paul wins the Republican Nomination hands down. Internet polls means nothing.

Maytham, thanks for appreciating my input but please don't twist my words to insinuate that I am saying that Imam Ali is like so and so....I am trying to make a point.

I am not saying he (as) is at their level. I am referring to what Imam Ali did.

Maytham, again, the ends do not justify the means....the pathway to Hezbollah is not a justification to kills 60,000 and counting Muslims.

What do you think Imam Ali would do to nonMuslims who are responsible for the side that kills tens of thousands of Muslims....let me guess....Hmm....probably what Imam Ali did to nonMuslims who killed just dozens of Muslims. What did Imam Ali do? He executed them....not after some long drawn out judicial proceedings either.

I am not advocating execution of these Assad regime war criminals. I advocate a judicial system but I am just making a point.

Logic, the reason why blame is being put on Iran and Hezbollah is because 60,000 Syrian men, women, and children are now buried 6 feet underground. Don't be so enamored by Iran's foreign policy by the way. Over a hundred thousand of Chechen Muslim men, women, and children were killed by Russians very close to Iran and Iran simply continued good relations with Russia.

"Salam bros! Let's not hide behind our fingers, the reason for your support for Bashar is not because he does good (and we all know he's a brutal dictator), but because you, as a Shia, fear the Wahhabis. Same thing for the rest of the minorities in Syria."

Robin Hood, thanks Bro for calling it as it is and removing the smoke screen.

That's exactly the motivation for encouraging injustice and hiding behind lame excuses which will be not accepted by Allah on Judgement Day.

Maytham, Nasrallah and Khamanei should know better. The 60,000 (and counting) killed by the nonMuslim Assad regime is a lot worse than the 1,400 Lebanese killed by Israel in 2006. You are only fooling yourself and massively hurting your position on Judgment Day. According to many CRYSTAL CLEAR Quranic commands cannot hide behind them or anyone else on Judgement Day.

I am not going to hold my breath thinking that you will change as you already said you stand by your view. But I thought I would (again) give you some brotherly advice since you expressed appreciation at my input.

Finally, Brother Logic and Brother Maytham, please realize the obvious....ironically, the longer Iran and Hezbollah supports and props up the nonMuslim Allawi regime, the exact thing that we don't want---more radicalization---will take place in Syria.

If the evil unjust support stops, it will be more likely that the Syrian civil opposition will have control rather than FSA or other groups (and don't exaggerate and try to generalize that all Muslims of FSA or other groups are evil....most of these Muslims are fighting just for their rights that have been brutally usurped for the last 40 years).

The longer the anti-Quranic help continues, the more hate, chaos, and desperation, and suffering will increase in Syria.

But that is all besides the point.

Exposing the perverted, unjust, and anti-Quranic and thus anti-Allah mindset of "the ends justify the means" will require another thread.

We are commanded by Allah to follow his crystal clear commands such as allowing people (especially Muslims) to choose their own leaders instead of supporting nonMuslim Allawis who are shooting them in the heads. By the way, not even all Allawis support Assad...many want freedom for all Syrians. They may be the minority of their nonMuslim community but the Qur'an alludes to the just among other nonMuslim communities like Jews and Christians.

We should have the decency as slaves to Allah to trust Him for the outcome and to address future scenarios as they come instead of trying to justify how we can deprive anyone (especially millions of men, women, and children) of their most elementary rights such as choosing their own leaders.

Was salams.

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The situation is very complicated in Syria and in cases like these we look to our leaders, the religious scholars, for guidance. Who better to refer to than Sayed Hassan Nasaralla and Sayed Khamanei, these men are very close to the war, have a very good idea of whats going on and more knowledgeable than us when it comes to religious matters. So when they condemn FSA and support the president we have to trust them in their decision.

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They also have quite a lot to lose, politically.

(wasalam)

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Logic, I checked out that site. Thanks for clarifying that the this poll was NOT done by a respectable firm like Pew or Gallop but LOL by an internet poll!

According to internet polls, Ron Paul wins the Republican Nomination hands down. Internet polls means nothing.

I thought you had bigger and better things to attend too but i guess the ego got the best off you.

It was an internet poll conducted by a Qatari foundation, The very same people who are backing the FSA "rebels". So there is absolutely no issue of biasness in this. Now lets also focus on the Arab league monitors/observers who were sent to Syria in the begining and remind you of their statement as well

I quote "Some places looked a bit of a mess, but there was nothing frightening"

I am not saying he (as) is at their level. I am referring to what Imam Ali did.

Dont bring absurd comparisons.

Don't be so enamored by Iran's foreign policy by the way. Over a hundred thousand of Chechen Muslim men, women, and children were killed by Russians very close to Iran and Iran simply continued good relations with Russia.

Since you mentioned Khomeni initially then do i need to remind you his statement on inter-trade with neighboring countries? He made it very clear that Muslims countries should trade within themselves and become independent. Unfortunately in the case of Iran nobdoy wants to work with them due to their choice of religion.

If the chechnen issue has been resolved by negotiation then there is no issue with them continuing trade.

Finally, Brother Logic and Brother Maytham, please realize the obvious....ironically, the longer Iran and Hezbollah supports and props up the nonMuslim Allawi regime, the exact thing that we don't want---more radicalization---will take place in Syria.

I am sorry i cant have a discussion infused with religion and politics. Its a very sneaky trail to adapt and it makes it very difficult to point out the fallacies of your argument.

I strongly suggest you and the teenage wanna be impartial adapt a pov so it becomes simple to discuss this issue.

As far as Iran is concerned it had voiced quite a few suggestion to make this situation work in everyone favor but they have been fully shut down. Its thought provoking to ask why is that? Not only Iran but Russia and China are seeing through this smoke screen.

We are commanded by Allah to follow his crystal clear commands such as allowing people (especially Muslims) to choose their own leaders instead of supporting nonMuslim Allawis who are shooting them in the heads. By the way, not even all Allawis support Assad...many want freedom for all Syrians. They may be the minority of their nonMuslim community but the Qur'an alludes to the just among other nonMuslim communities like Jews and Christians.

Is that right? I dont recall Prophet Mohammed (Saww) taking a vote before placing Ali (as) as his successor nor do i recall Imam Hassan Askari (as) taking votes for the next muslim leader.

If you are referring to democracy then the islamist rebels and even MB have made it clear they have no such intentions. They are going to enforce their view of Islam down people's throat.

We should have the decency as slaves to Allah to trust Him for the outcome and to address future scenarios as they come instead of trying to justify how we can deprive anyone (especially millions of men, women, and children) of their most elementary rights such as choosing their own leaders.

Again i repeat, if the rebels and their sponsers actually believed in their cause then let them lead by example!

I strongly suggest you look at the entire picture instead of having a tunnel vision.,

Salam bros! Let's not hide behind our fingers, the reason for your support for Bashar is not because he does good (and we all know he's a brutal dictator), but because you, as a Shia, fear the Wahhabis. Same thing for the rest of the minorities in Syria.

Really? Is that why we are Shias still partake in Ashura procession all over the world especially in Iraq and Pakistan when there are strong indication of bombs going off.

Even if Wahabbis take over Syria its not going to change much for Hizbullah and for Iran it wont even make much of a difference.

They also have quite a lot to lose, politically.

(wasalam)

Explain what and how. Overlook the Zionist angle.

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Salam Abdal Barr,

Maytham, again, the ends do not justify the means....the pathway to Hezbollah is not a justification to kills 60,000 and counting Muslims.

I would just like to remind you that there is more to this situation than "Just Doing The Right Thing" . Ideally we would get rid of the terrorist groups FSA and every other rebel army in syria and remove Bashar Al-Assad and put someone in power thats more fit to rule, (even though Bashar is one of the best Arab Nation rulers out there right now, comparing him to Suadia arabia, Qatar and Bahrain. And he supports the arab muslim nations unlike the other countries) and everyone goes home happy.

Yes I do agree with you that the Assad regime is a baath regime, and they did kill people unjustly. But like i said there's more to it than that.

Dont forget that Imam Hassan (a.s.) signed a peace treaty with Muywawia even though he was an oppressive ruler, and remeber that Imam Ali (a.s) did not fight against the Caliphs before him. And of course the treaty of Hudabiya.

What I do not understand and want you to please clarify is why do you put Sayed Hassan Nasrallah And Sayed Khamanei who are gems and protectors of muslims on such a low level and refuse to listen to them.

When Isreal Attacked Gaza about a month ago, where were those rebels that wanted to fight against oppression, where were those freedom fighters that you keep bringing up to pretoct the muslims. They were no where to be herd of.

Hamdualla Iran was there supplying the Palestinian front with Fajr -5 missles (which was a major factor to the victory of the Palestinian people) when the rest of the muslim world turned there back to them.

And Of course Im sure your aware of The war between isreal and Hezbullah.

I want to bring to your attention that there is a hidden agenda here. Its not the case where the syrian people got fed up and started fighting back and it would be very naive to think so.

If you want to see an example of citizens of a nation that are on there own and are determined to get there rights look at Bahrain. Where is there support?

(Oh wait, Never mind the Al-Khaliafa regime is an Ally of America).

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Brother Logic, Brother Maytham

Salams,

I was too busy to respond earlier.

Brother Logic, regarding the internet poll, the reason why it is not reliable is because of the unrepresentativeness of the population it purports to address.

It is not because of "bias" by the ones who are carrying it out.

According to internet polls Ron Paul was selected as the Republican winner of the primary election. But in reality, Ron Paul only had a small percentage of the votes.

I wish internet polls would work, because I believe Ron Paul to be more principled than Obama (however thank God that Obama was elected because Romeny would have been much worse...Romney was more likely to have started a war with Iran)

So internet polls are a sham in the US but they are a far greater sham in Syria.

First of all, not all people in Syria have equal access to or time with internet.

If an internet survey was done in Iraq in 2003, Saddam Hussein would have won. This is because there were probably more Sunnis having access to internet than Shias since power (and thus the money to buy computers, have more continuous access to internet, etc.) was with Sunnis.

Secondly, in addition to the issue of access, people in an internet survey will not report honestly because they do not want to be arrested or have themselves or their families put in harm.

Imagine a Syrian Muslim seeing an internet survey at a time when the Assad regime are pumping bullets in the heads of peaceful protesters for over many months.

Would he want to say he is against Assad over the internet to a poll who he is not familiar with and he may think is a ploy by the Assad regime to identify and target opposers of the regime?

Of course not.

All respectable experts on Syria regardless of religious or Islamic sect, etc. say that Assad has only minority support. Assad's support is mostly from 12% of Syrians who are nonMuslim Allawis. Some Allawis hate the Assad family for various reasons but in general the Allawis support his regime because they want the Allawis to continue to dominate the country. Also Assad has support among the 10% of Syrians who are Christians because the Christians are not too happy with seeing their country be ruled by the majority Muslims. Assad also had a little support from some corrupt members of Sunni families who were given business connections with the regime.

Assad probably has about as much popular support as Saddam Hussein did in Iraq...theoretically at most 30% but probably much less.

Therefore Assad would lose in an election by a large margin and that is why his regime is against free elections.

On the other point of regarding the example I gave of Imam Ali (as) executing nonMuslims who were trying to kill Muslims or who had killed Muslims, it is not absurd to think that Imam Ali would do the same to nonMuslim tyrannical oppressors who had killed 60,000 Muslims and who were trying to kill even more Muslims every day.

Regarding Iran's relationship with Russia, I am not saying that Iran should not have trade with Russia...but what I am saying is that it is deplorable that Iran was very cozy with Russia while Russia was killing perhaps hundreds of thousands of Chechen Muslims who were struggling for freedom from Russian oppressive rule. This killing was going on next to Iran's doorstep as Chechnya is relatively quite close to Iran.

Brother Maytham,

I appreciate that you recognize the Assad regime as Ba'athists and as unjustly killing their own people.

Yes, Imam Hasan (as) signed a peace treaty with Muawiyah but he did not support Muawiyah in killing people who opposed Muawiya's rule.

That is what makes Iran and Hezbollah's support of the Assad regime that had unjustly killed 60,000 people so tragic.

Regarding "please clarify is why do you put Sayed Hassan Nasrallah And Sayed Khamanei who are gems and protectors of muslims on such a low level and refuse to listen to them".....

I will respond with the following example....

Imagine you go to a mosque which you has been led by an imam for many years. Imagine that imam is a gem in terms of knowledge and so on and that you respected him.

But then you know that the Imam is taking a gun and shooting the head of some masjid member who disagree with certain of his policies and who want free elections to determine the policies of that mosque and free elections to select an imam, would you continue to treat that imam as "a gem and as a protector of Muslims"?

Now extend that example to the Imam not helping in the killing one person unjustly but the killing of 60,000 people unjustly ?

I hope you see my point.

I think we have exhausted this thread...inshallah I will try to start a new thread that can be more focused on what is really at stake in terms of impacting our eternal, everlasting Akhirat regarding the positions we take on the situation in Syria.

Was-salams

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I was too busy to respond earlier.

No worries. Take your time.

It is not because of "bias" by the ones who are carrying it out.

Carried out by Qatar

"funded by the Qatar Foundation. Qatar's royal family has taken one of the most hawkish lines against Assad"

So internet polls are a sham in the US but they are a far greater sham in Syria.

First of all, not all people in Syria have equal access to or time with internet.

Your comparison of Ron paul is flawed because you didnt read the internet poll in its entirety. Its claims the poll was conducted by the Arabs not Syria alone.

Guardian reported this as well

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/17/syrians-support-assad-western-propaganda

Some 55% of Syrians want Assad to stay, motivated by fear of civil war – a spectre that is not theoretical as it is for those who live outside Syria's borders. What is less good news for the Assad regime is that the poll also found that half the Syrians who accept him staying in power believe he must usher in free elections in the near future. Assad claims he is about to do that, a point he has repeated in his latest speeches. But it is vital that he publishes the election law as soon as possible, permits political parties and makes a commitment to allow independent monitors to watch the poll.

If you want i can further document points made by Syria, Iran to tackle this issue head on which were denied by not only FSA but its supporters! Ask yourself, what say do they have in this?

If an internet survey was done in Iraq in 2003, Saddam Hussein would have won. This is because there were probably more Sunnis having access to internet than Shias since power (and thus the money to buy computers, have more continuous access to internet, etc.) was with Sunnis.

Comparing Assad to Saddam is laughable because they are different individuals. The latter has a legacy of being an insane paranoid raping murderer whereas Assad has no such background.

Imagine a Syrian Muslim seeing an internet survey at a time when the Assad regime are pumping bullets in the heads of peaceful protesters for over many months.

Ofcourse!

We will conveniently ignore the ARAB league sponsored monitors that were sent out to assess the situation and their response!

Do you want to enforce your point of view or discuss facts?

All respectable experts on Syria regardless of religious or Islamic sect, etc. say that Assad has only minority support. Assad's support is mostly from 12% of Syrians who are nonMuslim Allawis. Some Allawis hate the Assad family for various reasons but in general the Allawis support his regime because they want the Allawis to continue to dominate the country. Also Assad has support among the 10% of Syrians who are Christians because the Christians are not too happy with seeing their country be ruled by the majority Muslims. Assad also had a little support from some corrupt members of Sunni families who were given business connections with the regime.

Brother, I think you also realise that your position is false which is why you lean so much on claiming the govt to be non-muslim in making your point. I dont see what kind of Islam FSA follows when they are killing civilians, as the Quran has openly made it clear that killing an innocent soul is like killing the entire mankind.

You dont speak for the Christian community so i would like to see you back this because this is all made up fairy tales and i dont believe it.

On the other point of regarding the example I gave of Imam Ali (as) executing nonMuslims who were trying to kill Muslims or who had killed Muslims, it is not absurd to think that Imam Ali would do the same to nonMuslim tyrannical oppressors who had killed 60,000 Muslims and who were trying to kill even more Muslims every day.

Do you really think tainting your arguments with Islamic notions gives merit to your argument because i can easily turn this around and bring the episode of Battle of Jamal and Siffin. Go look up the Shia point of view on those who fought Imam Ali (as)

Furthmore you claimed that only 12% of Alawi non muslims support Assad

Assad's support is mostly from 12% of Syrians who are nonMuslim Allawis

Its quite easy to point out that the Syrian army are much more in number hence your argument falls flat in its face cause now you have to distinguish between Muslim and non-muslim.

Regarding Iran's relationship with Russia, I am not saying that Iran should not have trade with Russia...but what I am saying is that it is deplorable that Iran was very cozy with Russia while Russia was killing perhaps hundreds of thousands of Chechen Muslims who were struggling for freedom from Russian oppressive rule. This killing was going on next to Iran's doorstep as Chechnya is relatively quite close to Iran.

Who isnt involved in killing Muslims with drones flying over neighboring Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan. The list involved consist of EU, US and bunch of other countries which all have muslim blood on their hands so maybe Iran should stop trade with all of them. It goes without saying they are all close neighbors to Iran as well.

I think we have exhausted this thread...inshallah I will try to start a new thread that can be more focused on what is really at stake in terms of impacting our eternal, everlasting Akhirat regarding the positions we take on the situation in Syria.

Please dont!

If you wish to discuss politics then make countless threads. If you wish to discuss Islam then make countless thread but dont infuse them together as it makes it extremely difficult to point out the fallacies. Dont use Islam to lead others through a guilt trip to accept your point of view.

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Brother, if you honestly think the majority of nonMuslim, Baathist, Alawi regime leader, Assad who along w his family have been ruling as a dictator over the country, then I you are in serious denial.

Internet polls mean absolutely nothing because those who respond are not representative. You may want to take some basic statistics courses as I had done.

But it is not rocket science....I think you missed the simple "logic" from my post above.

Although the representativeness of computers and internet access and freedom to express one's honest view are greater in the US by a vast margin compared to Syria...still Ron Paul won the Republican Primary by internet poll but would in reality made a very small percentage of votes in real life.

My further points above still stand but they are further strengthened by the link you provided which said that a further bias was that the unrepresentative internet access public voted that way because they did not want a civil war in their country because they knew that Assad and his regime are killers.

If you take away that bias and include those who do not have internet access like the vast poor people of Syria, then the preference for Assad would be even less than the 30% theoretical maximum support he can have.

Again the logic from the previous post.

So internet polls are a sham in the US but they are a far greater sham in Syria.

First of all, not all people in Syria have equal access to or time with internet.

If an internet survey was done in Iraq in 2003, Saddam Hussein would have won. This is because there were probably more Sunnis having access to internet than Shias since power (and thus the money to buy computers, have more continuous access to internet, etc.) was with Sunnis.

Secondly, in addition to the issue of access, people in an internet survey will not report honestly because they do not want to be arrested or have themselves or their families put in harm.

Imagine a Syrian Muslim seeing an internet survey at a time when the Assad regime are pumping bullets in the heads of peaceful protesters for over many months.

Would he want to say he is against Assad over the internet to a poll who he is not familiar with and he may think is a ploy by the Assad regime to identify and target opposers of the regime?

Of course not.

All respectable experts on Syria regardless of religious or Islamic sect, etc. say that Assad has only minority support. Assad's support is mostly from 12% of Syrians who are nonMuslim Allawis. Some Allawis hate the Assad family for various reasons but in general the Allawis support his regime because they want the Allawis to continue to dominate the country. Also Assad has support among the 10% of Syrians who are Christians because the Christians are not too happy with seeing their country be ruled by the majority Muslims. Assad also had a little support from some corrupt members of Sunni families who were given business connections with the regime.

According to all respectable experts on Syria, Assad probably has about as much popular support as Saddam Hussein did in Iraq...theoretically at most 30% but probably much less.

The quote you give of killing one soul is like killing all of mankind is from Allah but that does not mean the Syrians should not have freedom.

By the verse above, the greatest person in history, our Prophet Muhammad was wrong in fighting the Quraish because of the wrong killing that Usama ibn Zayd did and which the Qur'an pointed out.

Maybe the 60,000 people who are now dead because of the nonMuslim Assad regime and their hundreds of thousands of family members should mail you a complimentary mathematics book so you can understand that the numbers of innocent people who Assad's regime killed are far, far greater than the innocent numbers killed by the opposition forces.

I am 100% against the killing of any soul but numbers matter.

Should we say that the Holocaust and the Cambodian Killing Fields and every genocide should not be blamed because the other side also may have killed an innocent soul?

As Allah says in the Qur'an... I am paraphrasing because I don't remember the verse number...how do you judge (so illogically)?"

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Brother, if you honestly think the majority of nonMuslim, Baathist, Alawi regime leader, Assad who along w his family have been ruling as a dictator over the country, then I you are in serious denial.

Where have i said that i support Assad fully and absolutely?

But it is not rocket science....I think you missed the simple "logic" from my post above.

If only i had a dollar when people of your caliber came up with this corny lines.

Internet polls mean absolutely nothing because those who respond are not representative. You may want to take some basic statistics courses as I had done.

Treat yourself to a cookie.I am tired of discussing this issue with you. take it for it is worth.

Here is a brief summary of our conversation so far.

* Democracy: 3 countries mentioned. All are in disarray and failed in their goal. I understand decade long changes dont happen overnight but these countries are showing no advancement at all.

Tunisia PM resigns today. When asked about the goals of Syria....

You have no answer

* 60,000 - 70,000 people killed: Huge number no doubt but i ask you to address those killed by rebel/terrorist groups and pin point their motives. I ask you to blame them and.....

You have no answer

* Blame game: You blame Iran and Hizbullah for being quiet. When i pin point US, EU, GCC all being involved in supporting the cause of the rebels

You have no answer

* Agenda/Motives: You say people of the region want freedom. I said there are vast amount of foreign fighters involved who are sitting peacefully in their own oppressed, dictator led country. Why is that?

You have no answer

* You called me a Zionist journalist: I pointed out how FSA motives are in line with western/Israeli interest.

You have no answer

* Christian/non muslim: You said they are against muslims ruling them so they support Assad. I called you out on this pov by demanding proof of this allegation.

You have no answer

* Peaceful rebellion: You claimed this rebellion was peaceful for the 1st year and Assad was pumping bullets. I point out that it was peaceful for the first 3 months only and Arab league sponsored monitors reported they were no cause of concern in Syria as well.

You have no answer

* Non muslim: You harped about them being non muslim and drag Imam Ali (as) name to give them legitimacy. I point out Maula Ali (as) behavior in Jamal and Sifeen.

You have no answer

* Iran foreign policy: You point out their relationship with Russia due to them killing Muslims. I point out the entire NATO countries killing muslims

You have no answer

************************************************

Do you see a pattern here? Its useless to discuss this issue with you any further because you are just harping your pointless agenda down my throat while refusing to have a normal discussion like a 41 year adult should.

Shame on you for using and abusing the name of Islam to progagate your false views.

Edit: If you wish to continue this discussion further then i would suggest you respond to the above points with references.

Edited by Logic
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Quote

But it is not rocket science....I think you missed the simple "logic" from my post above.

If only i had a dollar when people of your caliber came up with this corny lines.

That's pretty funny lol.

Abdal Barr:

All respectable experts on Syria regardless of religious or Islamic sect, etc. say that Assad has only minority support. Assad's support is mostly from 12% of Syrians who are nonMuslim Allawis. Some Allawis hate the Assad family for various reasons but in general the Allawis support his regime because they want the Allawis to continue to dominate the country. Also Assad has support among the 10% of Syrians who are Christians because the Christians are not too happy with seeing their country be ruled by the majority Muslims. Assad also had a little support from some corrupt members of Sunni families who were given business connections with the regime.

An internet poll is better than no source at all dont you think?

Btw even though that poll may not be the best way to represent the Syrian people it is still a statistic that we have probably the only one. And many news channels quoted that number as a reliable source.

1. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/17/syrians-support-assad-western-propaganda "Some 55% of Syrians want Assad to stay, motivated by fear of civil war"

2. http://www.newrepublic.com/article/world/100615/syria-symposium-intervention-arab-league# "A poll conducted by the Doha Debates in mid-December found that 55 percent of Syrians wanted Assad to remain in power."

Abdul Barr, I believed you had a open heart when you came here to discuss things but that is not the case, it seems that you have already made up your mind and are not willing to change it. I hope you give as much attention toward the genocides that's happening in Pakistan right now that you give to the Syrian Government.

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Muhsin KhanThose who reject Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) are deaf and dumb in darkness. Allah sends astray whom He wills and He guideson the Straight Path whom He wills.

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I can answer to Logic. As for people killed by rebels. Mostly it is Assad planes and tanks, which hit villages, destroy homes and hospitals, like in Aleppo. But those attacks by rebels, which kill civilians are mostly made by some isolated groups. Some of those attacks not even Jabhat al-nusra has said, they did it. Some of the attacks have been to military targets. And others I suppose have been failed attacks to military targets, which killed soldiers, but too many civilians also.

US and EU dont support the rebels much more, than politically. Most support is provided by Sunnis. All Sunnis and all groups of them. This battle is basicly the same, as in Egypt and Libya, Sunnis vs. dictator. Syria is exactly the same, except Iran sided with Assad. For that the fight is now Sunni vs. Shia.

You also asked, why foreign fighters dont fight dictators in Saudia, Kuwait, or Emirates. That is, because there was one big, decisive difference. Salafists and all other Sunni groups, except brotherhood are free to spread their message, make Islamic schools and above that they have conciderable political influence. Like in Saudia the king can not make a new law without asking Ulema first. For this they don't rise there. Quite frankly it is job for Shias, not for us to kill ruling family in Saudia, Bahrain, Qatar and Emirates. If you do that, we dont mind. But as long, as we are free to practice our religion.. Religious Sunnis don't want to fight them.

But because I and many other Sunnis like to go to Zawiyah and listen to a Shaykh. We like to go to Khanqah to make Zikr. And we like to go to Tabligh for 3 days calling people for Allah. Because Assad does not allow that, we are ready to fight him to the death. I myself am not interested. I rather make Christians be Sunni in Finland. But if I was in Syria, I would also fight for FSA.

Logic. You forget important point that for religious Sunni freedom of worship is what we want. If we dont get that, we want to rise against the government whenever we get the chance. We would rise in Saudi. But first the king must close Islamic universities and ban Sharia. But king Abdullah didn't give us the excuse. Assad did and basicly religious,non-secularist Sunnis have been waiting to rise against him for 30 years.

Even, if ghe rebellion was peaceful for 3 months, even then Assad drew the first blood, not us.

I agree that all, France, Russia, UK, USA and Germany are bad. They dont care [Edited Out] about Muslims. They are all just caring about their business and influence. But for me Russia and USA are the worst in this age. Because they have worse double standards of morality, than the rest. USA is saying to promote democracy and human rights, but excludes Israel. Not one of European countries does that. And Russia themselves have been THE worst oppressor of Muslims, killing millions of us. I have friend from Tajikistan, who wanted to memorice Quran. If Russia back then knew what he was doing, they would have tortured him and killed him.

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Maytham. Assad has lost and is losing supporters. But even according to that research 45% were against him. Anf many who support Assad are either doing so for the fear of what Assad soldiers and Shabeeha could do to his family, or thinking, civil war and all the destruction is not worth throwing down Assad. From all rebel liberated cities, only Harem is in support of Assad. You cant use that research to support your views, because you cant know how it was conducted and if some people were intimidated to claim, they support Assad.

The only fact from the ground is that Syrian Christians even they like Assad, they are not taking anybodys side in the conflict. And that is damn smart of them. Also fact is that even though some alewis support the revolution, they are most die hard suppotters for him. Also fact is that Kurds, who Assad refuse even citizenship before this conflict do not love, or support Assad. Sunnis have supporters and opponents of Assad. However, many of the Sunnis, who fight in his army do so for compulsion and dont defect, because if they tried, they will be executed. We can however safely say that the more Assad bombs Sunni villages and cities, they are the fastest to turn against him.

It is not shias, who can end this conflict, it is Sunni Arabs. Assad can not lose their hearts and win this conflict. The only way forhim to win is to win hearts of the people in Bab, Mayadah, Abu Kamal, Deir Ezzor, etc.

Shias seem to think, Assad can somehow have absolute military victory. He can not. The only good outcome for Shias to this conflict is, if Assad steps down and there is political agreement for transformation of power and free elections. The best outcome for him is, if he can leave some of the monuments of his power in place. This kind of war is not like civilization V - game, where you take victory by putting all your produce to troops and beat the enemy. This war will NEVER cease to exist without political solution. It is possible to crush Assad government militarily, but he can never win a military victory. Even if Iran and Hezbollah sent in troops, weapons and money.

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We should not being silent... first of all ...who are the Al nusra front . the are actually Army men who reject assad to kill ppl who protest against the govt policy . al nusra front pledge bait to Hizb ut tahrir who is not against shia or sunni .. the working for re establishing khilafah as they Offer bait to imam khomini when he revolt in iran. hizb ut tahrir convince Al nusra front for khilafah system which is condition to zahoor e Mahdi(as)

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finland_84

Clearly your a Wahabi, and I would sit here and try to type up an explanation to things and maybe give you a different perspective on things but for the most part Wahabis have there heart sealed and are stubborn. I would just suggest that if you do maybe one day plan to take action, ask yourself if it would be better to help out Palestine against Isreal, than trying to take down a Muslim ruler because hes allies with Iran.

Ws

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Salam Aleikum!

All the people who still think that there is an authentic revolution in Syria are either extremely ignorant or live in denial, its a US proxy war, just read the detailed report from Syria by the London Review of Books - http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n04/ghaith-abdul-ahad/how-to-start-a-battalion-in-five-easy-lessons

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I can answer to Logic. As for people killed by rebels. Mostly it is Assad planes and tanks, which hit villages, destroy homes and hospitals, like in Aleppo. But those attacks by rebels, which kill civilians are mostly made by some isolated groups. Some of those attacks not even Jabhat al-nusra has said, they did it. Some of the attacks have been to military targets. And others I suppose have been failed attacks to military targets, which killed soldiers, but too many civilians also.

US and EU dont support the rebels much more, than politically. Most support is provided by Sunnis. All Sunnis and all groups of them. This battle is basicly the same, as in Egypt and Libya, Sunnis vs. dictator. Syria is exactly the same, except Iran sided with Assad. For that the fight is now Sunni vs. Shia.

You also asked, why foreign fighters dont fight dictators in Saudia, Kuwait, or Emirates. That is, because there was one big, decisive difference. Salafists and all other Sunni groups, except brotherhood are free to spread their message, make Islamic schools and above that they have conciderable political influence. Like in Saudia the king can not make a new law without asking Ulema first. For this they don't rise there. Quite frankly it is job for Shias, not for us to kill ruling family in Saudia, Bahrain, Qatar and Emirates. If you do that, we dont mind. But as long, as we are free to practice our religion.. Religious Sunnis don't want to fight them.

But because I and many other Sunnis like to go to Zawiyah and listen to a Shaykh. We like to go to Khanqah to make Zikr. And we like to go to Tabligh for 3 days calling people for Allah. Because Assad does not allow that, we are ready to fight him to the death. I myself am not interested. I rather make Christians be Sunni in Finland. But if I was in Syria, I would also fight for FSA.

Logic. You forget important point that for religious Sunni freedom of worship is what we want. If we dont get that, we want to rise against the government whenever we get the chance. We would rise in Saudi. But first the king must close Islamic universities and ban Sharia. But king Abdullah didn't give us the excuse. Assad did and basicly religious,non-secularist Sunnis have been waiting to rise against him for 30 years.

Even, if ghe rebellion was peaceful for 3 months, even then Assad drew the first blood, not us.

I agree that all, France, Russia, UK, USA and Germany are bad. They dont care [Edited Out] about Muslims. They are all just caring about their business and influence. But for me Russia and USA are the worst in this age. Because they have worse double standards of morality, than the rest. USA is saying to promote democracy and human rights, but excludes Israel. Not one of European countries does that. And Russia themselves have been THE worst oppressor of Muslims, killing millions of us. I have friend from Tajikistan, who wanted to memorice Quran. If Russia back then knew what he was doing, they would have tortured him and killed him.

Your entire response is nothing short of lies. As you might have noticed i am not engaging you in other topic on Syria as well because quite frankly i dont have the time to post references and waste my time with you.

Edited by Logic
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Some people just can't understand the fact that SOMETIMES YOU HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO CHOOSE BETWEEN WORSE AND WORSER. I have to show a clear example:

Suppose your mother is dying in the hospital and she needs an urgent operation which costs 200,000 dollars. You (who are a man) are on your way to the hospital with the money which you have recieved by selling your home (no one gave you money and no one cared if your mother dies). Suddenly you are approached by two muscly men, one holds you and the other points a gun in your face: "Hand over the money or we rape you." You know you can't make a run for it and you can't defend yourself. Now it is up to you to choose from one of the following:

1-"Please rape me. My mother is dying I need the money."

2-"Here is the money. Don't rape me I prefer that my mother dies but I am not raped."

3-Swear to them and try to fight with them in which case you will probably piss them off and they will rape you, take the money, then shoot you in the head, and your mother will die too.

You have no choice but to choose between worse and worser. If you can not understand this I have no argument with you! And if you think the example I presented is complicated, then know that compared to what is happening in syria it was very very simple.

Edited by hadez803
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You should say, you must choose between bad and worse. Or bad, worse, more worse and worst.

I understand that for all the Shias even Assad is either total fasiq, or kafir. He is better for them, than any other secular, or Islamic government that might exist in Syria. Because Assad for the time being supports Iran and Hezbollah.

But for us Sunnies Assad is either bad option, or worst option. Depending if your secularist, or religious. The good option for us all that all of us accept is constitutional democracy. It will lead all, brotherhood, secularists, Sunnis, Kurds and Salafists all having some influence, but not all influence in Syria.

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