14 Infallible?

[hamza1892 6]

What does it mean when the prophet Mohammad, his daughter Fatima, and the 12 imams are infallible? Does it mean that they can not make mistakes? Or where they not prone to make mistake?

[roseofkarbala 53]

It means they CAN sin but they don't sin. Technically, they are physically capable of grabbing a cup of alcohol and drinking it or lying for example but they would never commit such sins because they truly fear and love Allah (swt), believe in Him and are inspired by Him to stay away from ALL sins, minor and large. Only an infallible Imam merits the title "Prince of Believers" or Amir'ul Mu'mineen because the Imam represents the perfect example for all believers of his time...

Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification. [Qur'an 33:33]

Edited December 31, 2012 by ruru87

[Ratohnhaketon 109]

Mistakes here would mean doing something on accident which would have otherwise been a sin (i.e. sleeping through a salat time). It doesn't mean that they somehow defy physics and can never trip or never be hit by an object or something.

[Ethics 4,408]

Mistakes here would mean doing something on accident which would have otherwise been a sin (i.e. sleeping through a salat time). It doesn't mean that they somehow defy physics and can never trip or never be hit by an object or something.

well, if Allah has given the power to them, then they would be able to defy physics and never be hit....

[Ratohnhaketon 109]

Sure. But that's not on them if they do get hit then is it? Meaning it wouldn't be a mistake.

Defining mistakes in this way in relation to infallibility does not contradict the possibility that Allah (Swt) would save them from harm in His wisdom. But of course the true worth of the human being is demonstrated through these individuals and so the times in which they should be saved in such a fashion (like Hazrat Isa) are few.

[hamza1892 6]

Thank you :)

For instance, would it be ok... If I said... Prophet Muhammad was walking down the street and tripped over his foot... Is that practical is say?

[Ali-Reza 945]

Infallibility means 100% Taqwa and awareness of Allah (swt) which means they don't make mistake nor they sin.

They asked Imam Sajad (as) if he could sin he said he could but he woud not. It's about purity of heart, soul, and mind all together to the point you are fully aware of your actions, your words, your deeds, etc.

Thank you :)

For instance, would it be ok... If I said... Prophet Muhammad was walking down the street and tripped over his foot... Is that practical is say?

No if you see such hadith reject it immediately because it violates Shia concept of infallibility.

[Ratohnhaketon 109]

What does tripping have to do with infallibility? Did not Musa kill that man without intending to? It wasn't a mistake in relation to infallibility, but it clearly shows that these sinless people aren't demigods who have control over even the structure of atoms and such. You are at some level of fault even when a mistake is made (such as when you sleep through Fajr it is usually due to something you did wrong either not taking care to wake yourself or staying up too late, or when you accidentally give false information due to you being a bit too hasty, etc.), but when something like what happened to Hazrat Musa (peace be upon him) occurs it would be better to classify it as out of his control. Likewise, Hazrat Musa had a speech impediment, is it then a mistake when he stutters? Of course not, it's out of his control.

[Ethics 4,408]

What does tripping have to do with infallibility? Did not Musa kill that man without intending to? It wasn't a mistake in relation to infallibility, but it clearly shows that these sinless people aren't demigods who have control over even the structure of atoms and such. You are at some level of fault even when a mistake is made (such as when you sleep through Fajr it is usually due to something you did wrong either not taking care to wake yourself or staying up too late, or when you accidentally give false information due to you being a bit too hasty, etc.), but when something like what happened to Hazrat Musa (peace be upon him) occurs it would be better to classify it as out of his control. Likewise, Hazrat Musa had a speech impediment, is it then a mistake when he stutters? Of course not, it's out of his control.

n. No way would a prophet or imam miss prayer, their essence is fully connected with Allah.

Second Prophet Musa never made a mistake, no PROPHET CAN MAKE A MISTAKE! No prophet ever made a mistake.

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A reader mentioned that Moses (as) killed a man with his fist. What sin could be greater than killing a human?

Well, The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF) and Imam Ali (as) killed many unbelievers! They did this to comply with Allah's regulations. Also killing a person during self-defense or when protecting believers from the assault of a non-believer, is not a crime.

Moreover, in many instances the sin of the prophets mentioned in Quran is the act they have committed which is considered violation by the tyrants of their time and NOT by Allah. It means that the governor considered such prophet is GUILTY of a specific act. This does NOT mean that they are guilty before Allah. The case of Prophet Moses killing a non-believer in defense of one of his Shia (followers) falls into this category. In fact Quran testifies the above mentioned fact by saying: 26:10 Behold your Lord called Moses: "Go to unto the wrongdoing folk: 26:11 The people of Pharaoh, will they not fear Allah? 26:12 He said: "O my Lord! I do fear that they will charge me with falsehood" 26:13 "My breast will be straitened and my speech may not go (smoothly), so send Aaron (to help me). 26:14 "And (further) they hold a charge of sin against me; and I fear they may slay me."

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As we can see in the last verse, the sin of murder is what the people of Pharaoh considered to be sin and not Allah. They considered Moses guilty. As such, that was not a sin before Allah, but rather the charge of the government.

Prophet Moses did what he was supposed to do, that is helping the oppressed believer against the oppressor. Although he did not intend to kill the oppressor, it happened during that defense. It was a Satan's plan to make the situation more difficult for Moses (as). By that unplanned murder, life was made harder for Moses (as) since he had to stay away from Egypt, but this does not mean that he sinned. Sometimes defending the truth may cause trouble but not sin. Despite all such troubles, Allah finally granted Moses (as) victory over the unbelievers. Again, Prophet Moses (as) was not a wrong-dower (Dhalim) otherwise it contradicts Verse 2:124 where Allah said that the position of God-assigned leadership shall not reach to the wrong-doers.

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Concept of Infallibility: http://www.al-islam.org/shiism/8.htm

http://www.al-islam....edia/chapter1b/

Edited January 1, 2013 by pureethics

[Ratohnhaketon 109]

Brother Pure is your post meant to address mine? They are in complete agreement.

[Ethics 4,408]

Brother Pure is your post meant to address mine? They are in complete agreement.

yes, you said Musa A.S made a mistake and the infallibles can miss prayer....

[Ratohnhaketon 109]

No way, read it again, I'm addressing the idea that something like Musa killing that man is a mistake. I compared it to something like sleeping through prayer which is a clear mistake that no infallible person would do, therefore what Musa did was not a mistake but was out of his control since it's not as though he can magically make it so that he'll never hit 'too hard' or in just the right spot and so forth. So then, to trip would not be a mistake, it's just tripping it's a part of the natural world we live in to perhaps fall at some moment or another. We're saying the same thing.

[hamza1892 6]

Thank you everyone for responding I really appreciated it. I understand it much better now :)

[Ethics 4,408]

Thank you everyone for responding I really appreciated it. I understand it much better now :)

did u check out my links?

[hamza1892 6]

Yes I printed it out and read it. Thank you very much for your time :)