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Ali-F

Imam Ali As Had An Movement While Giving Ring

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ha? he didn't have a movement the story is that the begger was asking for donation and Imam ali reachout to him but pointing his ring to him he was probably close to him...don't over think it the story is true it is even in sunni sources

Ya Ali

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Salam alaykum

Subhan'Allah. Everybody scrams "why are you confused, why are you that and that and fulan"

Wallahi, it is a question that I need an answer on, nothing else. Dont use that smiley 'azar-karbalai72' for showing "lol, this is strange".

Please show some respect.

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I dont think that your question is stupid. Please elaborate and I will be glad to respond. By using this smiley, I am not implying that I find your question pathetic

You must understand that Imam Ali grew up under the tutelage of the Prophet. They were the only people who could concentrate only on Allah while praying, without allowing any other thought to enter their heads. Imam Ali was praying to Allah, so when he sensed the beggar's presence, he gave his ring to him. His thoughts were only directed towards Allah, and since Zakat is also paid for Allah, Imam Ali gave his ring as Zakat, all the while thinking of Allah and not allowing any other thoughts to enter his head. Allah was very pleased with this act, for He also mentioned this in the Quran. If Allah was displeased with this act, He would not at all have mentioned it. Allah's approval shows that this act was therefore lawful. Furthermore, it must be kept in mind that Imam Ali's religious rank is higher than that of other Muslims. So this act would have been deemed as unlawful for any other common Muslim, as his level of religion is not as high as the Imam's.

I hope that answers your question. Assalam

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Where did you come up with this from?

I imagine it's along the same lines as the Prophet (pbuh) have exceptions to the rule (eg more than 4 wives) and his (as) status as the Imam.

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I imagine it's along the same lines as the Prophet (pbuh) have exceptions to the rule (eg more than 4 wives) and his (as) status as the Imam.

Or maybe something like Imam `Ali (as) is salat, so he can therefore do what he likes in it. When it comes to the ghulat, any argument is possible...

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There any ahadith saying Imam Ali (as) had special exceptions to the rules of salah?

Does there need to be?

You can see how people justify this, including saying since salat is for Allah, and Zakat is for Allah then there is no problem.

On the other hand, Imam Ali was known as someone who had deep concentration in salat, and spiritually was in a different world, so how did he hear the beggar?

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On the other hand, Imam Ali was known as someone who had deep concentration in salat, and spiritually was in a different world, so how did he hear the beggar?

It's possible that Allah ensured that he heard the beggar. Even when you are fully immersed in something, it can happen that something catches your attention. Also, no matter how concentrated you are, I think you would notice if a beggar came near you asking for money or food.

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Does there need to be?

You can see how people justify this, including saying since salat is for Allah, and Zakat is for Allah then there is no problem.

On the other hand, Imam Ali was known as someone who had deep concentration in salat, and spiritually was in a different world, so how did he hear the beggar?

isnt that the case those, giving charity even while praying is connection with Allah, thats no where near breaking connection with Allah, then why would Allah say so in the quran, look at that standard!

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Does there need to be?

You can see how people justify this, including saying since salat is for Allah, and Zakat is for Allah then there is no problem.

On the other hand, Imam Ali was known as someone who had deep concentration in salat, and spiritually was in a different world, so how did he hear the beggar?

Look at the video I posted above. Someone poses that question.

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It's possible that Allah ensured that he heard the beggar. Even when you are fully immersed in something, it can happen that something catches your attention. Also, no matter how concentrated you are, I think you would notice if a beggar came near you asking for money or food.

Sure, if I was approached directly but this isn't the case here. What is your issue with the narration?

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Does there need to be?

Does there need to be scriptural evidence that Imam Ali (as) has different rules to salah than us? Think so. Otherwise we'd just be speculating that He (as) was exempt from certain rules. Next some might say, for example, Imam Ali (as) doesn't need to do wudhu' to perform Salah. Given that the member said Imam Ali (as) had special laws of salah that only applied to him "In our case it breaks salat but not in his case", then there needs to be evidence of this, otherwise he conjured it up from his own imagination. Similarly, you said you imagined it was the same as Rasoul pbuh permitted to have multiple wives. You know this because there's scriptural evidence of it in the Qur'an. Where's the evidence that Imam Ali (as) had different rules to salah?

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Sure, if I was approached directly but this isn't the case here. What is your issue with the narration?

I don't have an issue with the narration, just with someone making claims that the rules of salah were different for the Imam (as) than everyone else. There are many possibilities for explaining what happened. For example, who knows if the rules for salah were even fixed then as they are now? There are some things that used to be allowed during salah, which later were no longer allowed (such as talking I believe).

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There any ahadith saying Imam Ali (as) had special exceptions to the rules of salah?

The story of zakat during salat is in quran and if there is evidence from ahadees that he a.s did notove his hand then i would agree witg it. And yes there are many instances that they can enter masajid while in junoob etc etc.

Edited by siraatoaliyinhaqqun

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Hazrat Abu Zar Ghaffari (ra) says that one day he was praying with the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) when a beggar came to the Prophet's mosque (Masjid-e-Nabavi) in Madina and began to ask for alms. No one responded to his pleas. The beggar raised his hands towards heavens and said, "Allah! Be a witness that I came to Thy Prophet's mosque and no one gave me anything."

Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib (as) was bowing (Ruku) while offering prayers at that time. Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib (as) beckoned and called his attention to his finger, on which was a ring. The beggar came forward and promptly drew Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib's (as) ring from his finger and left the place. In other words Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib (as) did not wait till his prayers were finished. He (as) was so particular to give alms, that while he was still praying he told the beggar by gesture that he might pull out his ring, sell it and spend the money to meet his needs.

It may be noted that giving alms while bowing in prayers is not included in the teachings of Islam. It is neither an obligatory nor a commendable act. Both the Shi'ah and the Sunnis alike, agree that Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib (as) did so and this incident occurred in the presence of Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) who raised his face towards heaven and prayed. The Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) had not yet finished his prayers when angel Jibril (Gabriel) brought the following verse of Noble Qur'an.

Only Allah is your Wali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who establish prayers and give charity while they bow (in prayer). (Surah al-Maeda 5:55)

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http://www.al-islam.org/shiism/6.htm

The Verse of Bowing (Ruku)

Verily, your guardian (wali) is Allah, His messenger, and the believers; those who perform the prayers and give zakat (alms) while bowing down (in ruku).9

Numerous commentators of the Quran from all schools of thought identify the one referred to in this verse is Ali ibn Abi Talib. The famous commentator, Zamakhshari says about this verse, “It was revealed in favor of Ali (may Allah enlighten his face). When a beggar asked him for alms in the masjid and Ali was in the position of ruku during the prayers, he gave away his ring while in that position. It seems it was loose on the little finger, for he did not exert any effort in taking it off, which would have nullified his prayer. If you ask how it could be in favor of Ali since the wording is in the plural form, I would say that the form is plural although its instigator is a single man to encourage people to follow his example and earn a similar reward; and also to draw attention to the fact that the believers must be extremely mindful and benevolent towards the poor such that if a situation can not be postponed until after the prayer, then it should not be delayed until having finished it.”[53])

Similarly, al-Wahidi in his book on the commentary of the Quran entitled, Asbab al-Nuzul, cites Kalbi's narration, that the cause of this revelation was Imam Ali. Kalbi says, “The later part of this verse is in favor of Ali ibn Abi Talib (may Allah be gracious to him) because he gave his ring to a beggar while in the state of ruku during the prayers.”[54]) Many other commentaries also hold that this verse refers to Imam Ali including: Sunan al-Nisa΄i, Tafsir al-Kabir by Tha΄alibi, Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal,[55] Musnad ibn Marduwayh, and Kanz al-'Ummal.[56]

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Does there need to be scriptural evidence that Imam Ali (as) has different rules to salah than us? Think so. Otherwise we'd just be speculating that He (as) was exempt from certain rules. Next some might say, for example, Imam Ali (as) doesn't need to do wudhu' to perform Salah. Given that the member said Imam Ali (as) had special laws of salah that only applied to him "In our case it breaks salat but not in his case", then there needs to be evidence of this, otherwise he conjured it up from his own imagination. Similarly, you said you imagined it was the same as Rasoul pbuh permitted to have multiple wives. You know this because there's scriptural evidence of it in the Qur'an. Where's the evidence that Imam Ali (as) had different rules to salah?

Oh I agree with you 100%, but as HH pointed out perhaps some of the rules pertaining to salat hadn't been established at that point (which is different I know to what the member had said ie. rules had been established but were not applicable to the Imam)

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^^ every imam a.s gave alms during rukuu not just imam Ali a.s.

reference? moreover if it is so then how we can claim that chapter 5 verse 55 of Holy Quran refers to Hazrat Ali (as) only

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Aslamalaykum,

If you notice in the narrations, the beggar made several pleas but noone responded including Imam Ali a.s but when he said the following (bolded part)

Hazrat Abu Zar Ghaffari (ra) says that one day he was praying with the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) when a beggar came to the Prophet's mosque (Masjid-e-Nabavi) in Madina and began to ask for alms. No one responded to his pleas. The beggar raised his hands towards heavens and said, "Allah! Be a witness that I came to Thy Prophet's mosque and no one gave me anything."

When a Prophet or an Imam prays, their attention/focus on salat is 100% and likewise during this prayer but when the beggar mentioned Allah swt name, the plea went to Allah swt and He swt answered the beggar through the means of Imam Ali a.s as His connection was with Allah swt at the time.

Edited by muslimunity1

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http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa349

 'Allama Majlisi said that paying attention to another person's prayer does not disagree with the perfection of prayer and presence of heart in the prayer.[10]

 Majlisī, Biḥār al-anwār, vol. 81, p. 281.

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Giving_Ring_as_Charity

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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