Why Stop At Only 12 Imams? An Intellectual Query

[warisshah2012]

Salam

I am reading about Imamate and it is very interesting intellectually but here are some questions I have:

If we have a divinely appointed imam to guide us on the way of the Prophet (s.a.w.) why only stop after 12? Why not continue with one imam after another till Imam Mahdi?

I would like you to answer this without referring to the Sunni hadith books about the hadith of 12 caliphs or similar narrations in your own books but only using intellect and logic. See, I am almost convinced that the idea of a divinely appointed ruler for the Muslim Ummah, who is protected from sin is a good one and it makes sense to my intellect but since we do not know when the Day of Judgement will be and when the world will end, shouldn't there be a continuous line of imams, one after the other, until the last one (whom we can call Imam Mahdi (a.s.) ?

I am a Sunni Muslim and a member of a Sufi tariqah but have recently been reading about Shi'ism as well and this question came to me.

[mohammad_mahdi]

Good question warrisshah. The truth is, in the school of thought of Imam Jaffer (politically speaking the Shia school of thought), we believe the 12th Imam is a present and active Imam for the last 1000 years, though most of us do not directly see him. He has guided the top scholars which most followers of this school of thought adhere to. Imam Mahdi (as) will stay in this world till the end of time, and after his death, there is no other reason for the world to remain in existence, and so Allah Almighty will start the processes for the Day of Ressurection, before the Day of Judgement

The concept of the prolonged life and the wisdom behind the occultation of Imam Mahdi (as) is a whole topic in itself, and if you search the site you will come across quite a few threads which talk about this is detail

Best of luck with your research bro/sis

[Ethics]

If you are talking about the number of Imams then, purely in my opinion from an intellectual way, you cannot deduce this intellectually because there are things which only Allah know, like why is there male and female, why does a human have two eyes, why is there only a day and night. But, there has to be a beginning and an end. Starting from Adam till Imam Mahdi A.S., that is all that is needed in Allah's plan. Look around you. now Islam alhamduillah is prevalent, and every doesnt just believe, they want to know intellectually why they believe. Subhanallah! Still, Islam proves to be the most intellectual religion. But if you are wondering why Imams stop at 12, because after Imam Mehdi A.S its the day of judgement. But you ave to understand the reason between Imam Mahdi's disappearance and his return. At the same time human kind is advancing, but we are losing what makes us human, morality, ethics, piety, truthfulness, justice, freedom, these are all going downhill and there will be a time where there will be consent bloodshed and injustice done upon innocent people. Islam will be the target, there would be no peace at all, this is when Allah commands Imam Mahdi to come and to restore Justice and Peace and Tranquility upon the world with the will and help of Allah. You can think of it as utopia, after this, there is no need for Imams protecting the religion because it is said when Imam Mahdi comes all will be Muslims(Shia). True Islam will be established. This is why only twelve is needed.

Hope I helped alittle...Wa Salaam

[GreyMatter]

Had the Imams been alive today, our Madhab would be all over the place, like the many divisions Ismailis have, and also the Ismaili concept of infallibility of their current Aga Khans is beyond me.

Their present Imams party it up (Yes, research, I can back it up as well) and yet they are infallible.

An Imam was to guide us, which they did, and were really infallible based on Shi'a and Sunni narratives on their pious and generous lifestyles. But their influence was severely limited (except Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (as) ) and were all murdered ruthlessly.

This harshness towards the Imams led to a breaking point by the time the 11th Imam Hassan al-Askari (as) came around, and thus, our last Imam (atfs) had to go into occultation. as it became clear that the whole bloodline would be wiped.

[Ibn al-Hassan]

(bismillah)

The question of why only 12 Imams is a difficult one to answer. I would consider this a non-rational element of our beliefs. That is to say that our rational faculty could not possibly deduce why only 12. For the same question could be posed in regards to why only 124,000 prophets. Why not keep that same system of guidance of prophethood till the Day of Resurrection. It's one that we simply do not possess the ability to rationalize. As I could say that 13 Imams would have been better and provided a case as to why it would have been so. And another person could bring forth an argument in which 1 Imam would be the best scenario. Only Allah (سبحانه و تعالى) knows and His Wisdom cannot be comprehended.

However, what we can do, like you mentioned in your post, is to rationally concluded that an Imam must exist and that he must be infallible (at the very least in regards to his action and words). So, rationally speaking, we could say that Allah ( سبحانه و تعالى) must provide us with Divine Guidance at all times and for that to be relatable to humans (i.e. The guidance must also come in human form). With this, we try and live according to the famous and widely-acknowledged hadith of the Holy Prophet (pbuh). The hadith which states that one must adhere to two forms of Divine Guidance in order to stay clear from error, The Noble Qur'an and the Ahlul Bayt (as). This reaffirms our rationally-derived statement that Allah ( سبحانه و تعالى) must provide us with humans who can guide us to the right path. And His Book to act as a miracle proving the veracity of their claim as "heirs to the Prophet (pbuh)" (i.e. they must not contradict the dictates of His Book).

So, yes we can conclude that an Imam must exist at all times to guide the Ummah. However, such questions as to how he guides the Ummah, how many Imams there are, who exactly are they, how much knowledge do they have, what is their status and position, along with thousands of other theological queries cannot be rationally-derived. For these questions, we must refer to the traditions that have so far reached us. Hope this helps.

(wasalam)

[Ratohnhaketon]

Salam alaikum brother

It's a pleasure to have the opportunity to interact with someone who demands logic and reason, just as the Qur'an demands from us.There are multiple functions of the Imams but among the most important are two.

1) To serve as protectors of Islam, both in keeping the teachings pure (which has been successful most prominently due to the events with the third Imam at Karbala, Hussein ibn Ali, and the other Imams that were able to spread their teachings to such an extent that it would not leave the people such as Imams Jaf'ar ibn Muhammad and Muhammad ibn Ali al-Baqir) and in serving as mercies for those who have the chance to interact with them.

2) To give people a chance to have leader, and thereby a government and a source of knowledge, that will serve to show the true potential of a human being, and demonstrate to us that we ourselves are capable of being mahsum (pure and sinless).

The question as to why twelve Imams, and why an occultation is similar to the question, why was Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) sent so late after Hazrat Isa (peace be upon him)? Could not Allah (Swt) simply send the last message earlier so as to help more people? The non-Muslims often ask this question, and it is a perfectly valid one to think over. Allah (Swt) has not sent the Qur'an, The Prophet (or any prophet), or the Imams as a necessity for ourselves to understand the principles of Islam. That is to say, if we had our divinely established intellect but no Qur'an we would be capable of fulfilling our purpose in life, but if we had no intellect and a Qur'an we would be unable to make use of it. And as Allah (Swt) says in the Qur'an: "They will also say, 'Had We listened or used our minds, we would not have become the dwellers of hell.'" (67:10) The Qur'an in of itself acknowledges that the faculty of our intellect is on par with the Qur'an, and the Qur'an's constant call to ponder on its verses demonstrates that the intellect is the means by which you distinguish truth from falsehood. So then, these three things (Qur'an, etc.) are mercies given to us to rid us of our excuses on Judgement Day and to assist on our journey towards the Almighty. The gap between Hazrat Isa and Muhammad is the same as the gap between Mahdi's occultation and his return from occultation. If Muhammad had come at any other time and at any other place in history he would have been killed, and you can see this by observing the perfection of the timing and location when he came between two dying empires and among a community ripe for something new. Likewise, if any Imam were to be appointed now they would be killed, and the occultation continues not due to the reservations or fear of the Mahdi but due to the fact that in general the people are not ready. Whether there be 12 or not is irrelevant to these previous factors being the case. Hadiths and things like the fact that Allah (Swt) has always instituted leaders (not just prophets) and not allowed the people to be the ones doing so (a good example is the story of Talut in Surah Baqarah) serve as reinforcement for what we see philosophically.

Salam.

[warisshah2012]

Thanks for the replies but I believe you brothers, being 12ers, are back-projecting your belief to answer the question. i.e starting from the premise that there

are 12 imams (as per your belief) and working backwards. As a neutral--i.e. I am not Shia neither 12er nor 7er nor 5er (Zaydi) --I cannot see why Imamate had to stop

with the Occultation. If Allah had divinely appointed someone surely He will protect them too--after all, He protected the first 11 without them going into Occultation.

So, why not a 13th and a 14th...until Imam Mahdi comes and rules the whole world (as per Sunni and Shia belief).

You mention the Aga Khani Ismailis and yet their position seems to be more logical. They have an Imam going back all the way to Imam Ali (a.s.) and you cannot

say he is not from Aal Muhammad (s.a.w.) Also, if He is divinely-appointed then doesn't he have the right as Imam to make any changes he likes to the interpretation off the Deen?

I am finding it hard to believe why a Divinely Chosen leadership for all the Muslims would have to stop at a fixed number and not continue till Qayamat.

Thanks for the replies so far they've been food for thought.

[Ethics]

Thanks for the replies but I believe you brothers, being 12ers, are back-projecting your belief to answer the question. i.e starting from the premise that there

are 12 imams (as per your belief) and working backwards. As a neutral--i.e. I am not Shia neither 12er nor 7er nor 5er (Zaydi) --I cannot see why Imamate had to stop

with the Occultation. If Allah had divinely appointed someone surely He will protect them too--after all, He protected the first 11 without them going into Occultation.

So, why not a 13th and a 14th...until Imam Mahdi comes and rules the whole world (as per Sunni and Shia belief).

You mention the Aga Khani Ismailis and yet their position seems to be more logical. They have an Imam going back all the way to Imam Ali (a.s.) and you cannot

say he is not from Aal Muhammad (s.a.w.) Also, if He is divinely-appointed then doesn't he have the right as Imam to make any changes he likes to the interpretation off the Deen?

I am finding it hard to believe why a Divinely Chosen leadership for all the Muslims would have to stop at a fixed number and not continue till Qayamat.

Thanks for the replies so far they've been food for thought.

Allah guides in his own ways...Why did Allah take Jesus, why did Allah take him into hiding? most of the prophets and all the imams got killed by people, did Allah protect them? Allah protects in his own way, death must come upon us one way or another, how ever it may be...

[Ratohnhaketon]

To throw hadith out doesn't entirely have philosophical backing since the idea of Imamate is not a philosophical requirement for discovering Truth, and therefore the idea in of itself is presented through hadith and Qur'an. I'm personally a convert to Islam so insha'Allah I do not believe I have any bias except that the ones among men I have found worthy of being Imams are those twelve and no other, it would not bother me in the slightest if someone proposed new imams to me if it is true it should be accepted, if false it should not.

Surely Allah (Swt) is fully capable of protecting the Imam should he emerge, however this would only be done with one of two options:

1) Enslave the vast amount of people who would oppose him

2) Kill them

Otherwise, the vast amount of people (even Muslims) would be constantly attempting to kill him. The other alternative is magic shield or what have you.

What then is the point of giving the people this opportunity of guidance present within Imamate if it is to be predicated by ridding the majority of human beings with the free will that is the crux why our existence is important. It would require that Allah (Swt) violate His own principles in His own book 'there is no compulsion in religion'.

[Abul Hussain Hassani]

Waleykum Salaam,

Good questions. These are the questions that Shia can not answer.

[Waiting for HIM]

OP: first answer first two questions stated below. Answering the two below might help in answering the limit of 12 questions.

I liked it the limitations.. let's don't refer to Quran and Hadith. Let's prove is using Aql (reasoning, logic).

1. Why limit to one God? Why not 2 03 3 or many..

2. Why the limit on the prophet hood? Why the nabuwa stopped at the Khatim ul Anbiuya (pbuh)?

[Peace lover]

Salam

I am reading about Imamate and it is very interesting intellectually but here are some questions I have:

If we have a divinely appointed imam to guide us on the way of the Prophet (s.a.w.) why only stop after 12? Why not continue with one imam after another till Imam Mahdi?

I would like you to answer this without referring to the Sunni hadith books about the hadith of 12 caliphs or similar narrations in your own books but only using intellect and logic. See, I am almost convinced that the idea of a divinely appointed ruler for the Muslim Ummah, who is protected from sin is a good one and it makes sense to my intellect but since we do not know when the Day of Judgement will be and when the world will end, shouldn't there be a continuous line of imams, one after the other, until the last one (whom we can call Imam Mahdi (a.s.) ?

I am a Sunni Muslim and a member of a Sufi tariqah but have recently been reading about Shi'ism as well and this question came to me.

There is never any answer to 'WHy' in this world. We can only answer 'WHAT' and 'HOW'.

These are our limitations as humans, we can do nothing about it.

[Peace lover]

Waleykum Salaam,

Good questions. These are the questions that Shia can not answer.

Chose any 'Why' question for yourself and try to answer it yourself. It should be a very easy question so that you can answer.

[Ibn al-Hassan]

Thanks for the replies but I believe you brothers, being 12ers, are back-projecting your belief to answer the question. i.e starting from the premise that there

are 12 imams (as per your belief) and working backwards. As a neutral--i.e. I am not Shia neither 12er nor 7er nor 5er (Zaydi) --I cannot see why Imamate had to stop

with the Occultation. If Allah had divinely appointed someone surely He will protect them too--after all, He protected the first 11 without them going into Occultation.

So, why not a 13th and a 14th...until Imam Mahdi comes and rules the whole world (as per Sunni and Shia belief).

You mention the Aga Khani Ismailis and yet their position seems to be more logical. They have an Imam going back all the way to Imam Ali (a.s.) and you cannot

say he is not from Aal Muhammad (s.a.w.) Also, if He is divinely-appointed then doesn't he have the right as Imam to make any changes he likes to the interpretation off the Deen?

I am finding it hard to believe why a Divinely Chosen leadership for all the Muslims would have to stop at a fixed number and not continue till Qayamat.

Thanks for the replies so far they've been food for thought.

(bismillah)

Of course, everybody is going to carry some preconceived notions with them into a discussion. So, there is no way of getting around that. However, what you should do is consider the arguments on their own merit.

Like I mentioned in my earlier post, you cannot get a rational answer as to why only 12 Imams. You can only rationally derive a proof for the necessary existence of an Imam (a representative of Allah (سبحانه و تعالى) on the Earth). You can't demand a certain method of proving a particular claim when its impossible. It's like what atheists demand of us. That we provide by empirical evidence the existence of Allah (سبحانه و تعالى). Not going to happen.

For the sake of this discussion, let's put the issue of Imamate aside for now.

I'm sure that you agree with me that there were roughly 124,000 prophets that Allah (سبحانه و تعالى) sent to mankind. Of whom, the last was our Beloved Prophet (pbuh). Now, how did we come to know this? It is through the prophetic traditions themselves. And even if you disagree with this number you would agree that our Prophet (pbuh) was the "Seal of prophets". So, this implies a finite number of prophets from Prophet Adam (as) to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). And there has not been another prophet for almost 1400 years since the demise of our Prophet (pbuh). Now, with the same issue that you bring forth regarding Imamate, how do you explain the finite number of prophets? Why did Allah (سبحانه و تعالى) only send a certain number of prophets? Why did he not send any more after our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)? If you only accept Prophethood but not Imamate, how do you explain why Allah (سبحانه و تعالى) would leave us without someone to guide us to the right path at all times? Could you please give me an objective and rational answer to this question (i.e. without referring to the traditions)?

I am simply pointing this out to you to show that we prove Imamate in almost the same way that we prove Prophethood. The only exception is that the number and identity of the Imams must be given to us by the Prophet (pbuh) himself (i.e. the Imams were not given the ability to prove their own claim through miracles). So, we must refer to the traditions. The objections that you raised regarding Imamate can also be applied to the concept of Prophethood. And if you do that, you're essentially saying that Prophethood also cannot be rationally established (or at least the prophethood of our Beloved Prophet (pbuh)).

(wasalam)

[InfiniteAscension]

Thanks for the replies but I believe you brothers, being 12ers, are back-projecting your belief to answer the question. i.e starting from the premise that there

are 12 imams (as per your belief) and working backwards. As a neutral--i.e. I am not Shia neither 12er nor 7er nor 5er (Zaydi) --I cannot see why Imamate had to stop

with the Occultation. If Allah had divinely appointed someone surely He will protect them too--after all, He protected the first 11 without them going into Occultation.

So, why not a 13th and a 14th...until Imam Mahdi comes and rules the whole world (as per Sunni and Shia belief).

You mention the Aga Khani Ismailis and yet their position seems to be more logical. They have an Imam going back all the way to Imam Ali (a.s.) and you cannot

say he is not from Aal Muhammad (s.a.w.) Also, if He is divinely-appointed then doesn't he have the right as Imam to make any changes he likes to the interpretation off the Deen?

I am finding it hard to believe why a Divinely Chosen leadership for all the Muslims would have to stop at a fixed number and not continue till Qayamat.

Thanks for the replies so far they've been food for thought.

(salam)

We do believe that the world till Qiyama will never be free of Divine Leadership, so whatever number it stops at isn't quite the point. If it stops at 12 or 1000, the world will never be free of a leader, and our narrations clearly and explicitly confirm this. In fact the presence of a divine leader is what allows the world to subsist, and were there not a divine leader, the world would cease to exist.

Secondly and more importantly (because this is where the confusion seems to have arisen for you), the divine leader does not have to be physically seen for him to have a role in this world. The Imam plays a vital role, and as mentioned earlier, the world ceases to exist if he was not there, what greater role than that could be found?! We believe the Imam, despite the occultation, influences, helps, guides and has an active role in this world. The occultation - reasons of which we perhaps cannot understand due to Divine Wisdom - does not negate the presence or understate the role of the Imam [ajtfs].

[Ratohnhaketon]

Waleykum Salaam,

Good questions. These are the questions that Shia can not answer.

You are more than welcome to provide some kind of refutation brother. As the Qur'an says, "bring your proof if you are truthful."

Salam

[Ali-Reza]

Why have 12 months before a year ends why not having 12 hours in day (not night). Something about the number 12 in my layman opinion has divine meaning. A good example is Quran Surah (5) Verse 12

And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve(12) leaders...

And [recall] when Moses prayed for water for his people, so We said, "Strike with your staff the stone." And there gushed forth from it twelve(12) springs,...

[O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the (12) Descendants

of months with Allah is twelve12[lunar] months in the registe

[hasanhh]

Had the Imams ...

An Imam was to guide us, which they did, and were really infallible based on Shi'a and Sunni narratives on their pious and generous

mostly ignored

^

lifestyles. But their influence was severely limited (except Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (as) ) and were all murdered ruthlessly.

Reply to my edit?

[hasanhh]

Waleykum Salaam,

Good questions. These are the questions that Shia can not answer.

Such as?

[Ishaq-e-Ali]

Waleykum Salaam,

Good questions. These are the questions that Shia can not answer.

there are many questions no human can answer!!!

[alialiali]

Salam

I am reading about Imamate and it is very interesting intellectually but here are some questions I have:

If we have a divinely appointed imam to guide us on the way of the Prophet (s.a.w.) why only stop after 12? Why not continue with one imam after another till Imam Mahdi?

I would like you to answer this without referring to the Sunni hadith books about the hadith of 12 caliphs or similar narrations in your own books but only using intellect and logic. See, I am almost convinced that the idea of a divinely appointed ruler for the Muslim Ummah, who is protected from sin is a good one and it makes sense to my intellect but since we do not know when the Day of Judgement will be and when the world will end, shouldn't there be a continuous line of imams, one after the other, until the last one (whom we can call Imam Mahdi (a.s.) ?

I am a Sunni Muslim and a member of a Sufi tariqah but have recently been reading about Shi'ism as well and this question came to me.

the imams (saw) are all 1, they are all muhamads (saw) all are Ali (saw) all are mahdi (saw). all 12 (saw) speak what each (saw) speaks.

the imam mahdi (saw) are in hiding and have been in hiding since they (saw) went into occultation.

sorry for the most brief and confusing reply, just having breakfast lol, so you have a sufi background, so you must be a spiritual knowledge type seeker?

[Waiting for HIM]

Frankly the OP question is stupid, devoid of any reason.

It's asking why there are only 124,000 prophets and why not 376,000 etc.; or why we have four divine books, why not seven.

This topic does not deserve to be in the "thinker's discourse", there is nothing intellectual about this thread.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Waiting for HIM

[Ratohnhaketon]

I think it's a valid question. One reason there is twelve is because we don't need more than twelve for what is intended for Imamate, just as was pointed out that we didn't need more than 124,000 prophets, whatever number of divine books, etc.

[warisshah2012]

Okay thanks for the replies so far. Let me rephrase the question in less philosophical terms: what is the Shia prime-text evidence (I.e. Koran and Hadith ) for th existence of the 12 imams (a.s) and their role as infallible imams. If we accept the number 12 then why is it these 12 and not, for example, someone like Hazrat Imam Zayd ibn Ali or Hazrat Ismail ibn Jafar etc. what is your evidence for exactly these 12 individuals? Can you show it from sources which both Sunni and Shia will accept.

[Ibn al-Hassan]

Okay thanks for the replies so far. Let me rephrase the question in less philosophical terms: what is the Shia prime-text evidence (I.e. Koran and Hadith ) for th existence of the 12 imams (a.s) and their role as infallible imams. If we accept the number 12 then why is it these 12 and not, for example, someone like Hazrat Imam Zayd ibn Ali or Hazrat Ismail ibn Jafar etc. what is your evidence for exactly these 12 individuals? Can you show it from sources which both Sunni and Shia will accept.

Well, I don't believe you're going to find much discussion regarding the 12 Imams in Sunni narrations. I think at most there are ahadith in Sunni books like Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal that state the first three Imams are Ali ibn Abi Talib (as), al-Hasan (as), and al-Husayn (as) and 9 successive descendents from the lineage of Husayn but I haven't verified that. And this would make sense becuase they don't believe in the concept of Imamate, so why would they bother trying to find out the exact identity of the 12 Imams?

As far as the other sects, like Zaydis and Ismailis, they don't even make the claim to be following 12 Imams in the first place. Both Ithna Asheris (Twelvers) and Ismailis agree that the Imamate passed from Imam as-Sajjad (as) to Imam al-Baqir (as). However, Zaydis are of the belief that the brother of al-Baqir (as), Zayd ibn Ali ibn Husayn, was the rightful successor. As far as I know, there is no textual evidence to backup this claim but rather it is based on the fact that Zayd led an uprising against the Umayyads and al-Baqir (as) didn't. They believe that the Imam is the one who revolts against oppression and tyranny like Imam al-Husayn (as). Though, I am not sure how they explain the stance of his father, Imam as-Sajjad (as), since he too did not outwardly rebel against the Umayyads. In regards to the Ismailis, they differ with Ithna Asheris about the identity of the Imam after Imam as-Sadiq (as). They too do not uphold the concept of 12 Imams and there are many sub-sects amongst themselves. They hold that Ismail ibn Jafar was the successor to Imam as-Sadiq (as) whereas Ithna Asheris believe it was Imam Musa al-Kadhim (as). Ithna Asheris hold that since Ismail died before his father that he could not have possibly been designated as the next Imam. Although, I believe most Ismailis were under the impression that he went into occulation.

Nonetheless, Ithna Asheris are the only ones the claim to follow 12 Imams and do have authentic traditions going back to the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and the earlier Imams (as) that give the exact name and identity of the subsequent ones . I will try and find some quality hadith material online for you.

(wasalam)

[Ethics]

Appointment of Imams and their next succesors

‘Mansoor bin Hazim went to see Imam Abu Abdullah Jaffar Al-Sadiq , and asked him to specify the Imam who would succeed him. ‘May my father and mother be your ransom’, said he, ‘souls shall certainly taste death. If that is to be, then who will succeed you?’ ‘This is your man’, said the Imam, pointing to Abul-Hassan Mousa Al-Kadhim. Then he placed his hand on the shoulder of his son, as a gesture of emphasis. Mousa Al-Kadhim was, at the time, five years old.’ (Al-Kulayni, Usool Al-Kafi, Vol.1, page 309)

Abd al-Ala reported on the authority of al-Fayd b. al-Mukhtar, who said: I (i.e. al-Fayd b. al-Mukhtar) said to Abu `Abd Allah Jaffar, peace be on him: "Take my hand away from the fire (of Hell). Who is (the Imam) for us after you?" Abu Ibrahim (Mousa Al- Kadhim) entered. Then Imam Jaffar Al-Sadiq said: "This is your leader. Keep close to him." (Kitab Al-Irshad)

I (i.e. al-Mufaddal b. Umar al-Jufi) was with Abu Abd Allah Imam Jaffar AL-Sadiq, peace be on him. Abu Ibrahim Mousa Al-Kadhim, peace be on him, came in. He was still a boy. Abu Abd Allah Jaffar, peace be on him, said to him: "Indicate to those of your Companions whom you trust that the position of authority belongs to him Mousa." (Kitab Al-Irshad).

"First Muharnmad al-Hanafiyah talked to the Stone; there was no response. Imam Zayn al-'Abidin(A.S.) said: "Had you, O Uncle, been the Wasi and Imam, it would certainly have answered you."

Muhammad al-Hanafiyah said "Now, O Nephew, you pray and ask it." Imam Zayn al-'Abidin(A.S.) prayed to Allah and then asked the Black Stone to declare in clear Arabic as to who was the Wasi and Imam after Imam Husayn bin 'Ali(A.S.).

There was a tremor in the Stone and then Allah made it speak in clear Arabic: "O Allah, verily Wisayah and Imamah, after al-Husayn bin 'Ali is for Zayn al-'Abidin 'Ali bin al-Husayn, son of 'Ali bin Abi Talib and Fatimah bint Rasulillah." Muhammad al-Hanafiyah accepted the verdict and declared his allegiance for Imam Zayn al-'Abidin(A.S.).

(al-Ihtijaj of al-Tabrasi, al-Kafi of al-Kulaini, Basa'-erud-Darajat, A'lumul-wara, Manaqib of Ibn Shahr 'Ashob, Biharul-Anwar, Vol. XI, of Majlisi)."

"When `Ali b. `Abd Allah b. al-`Abba`s was born, his father brought him to Ima`m `Ali, peace be on him. The Ima`m said to `Abd Allah: What have you named him?` Is it possible for me to name him before you name him?` asked Abd Allah. So, the Ima`m said: `I have named him with my name and given him my kunya. He will have authority.`(Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, vol. 7, p. 358)

1. Zara`ra reported on the authority of Abu` Ja`far (al-Ba`qir), peace be on him, who said: "The Ima`ms are twelve. Among them al-Hasan and al-Husayn, and then the Ima`ms from al-Husayn`s children.

2. Abu` Basir reported on the authority of Ima`m Abu` Ja`far (al-Ba`qir), peace be on him, who said: "We are twelve Ima`ms.(Al-Karajiki, al-Istinsar, p. 17)

3. Abu` Basir reported that the Ima`m said: "There will be nine Ima`ms after al-Husayn. The ninth of them will be their Qa``im (i. e. , the one who will undertake the office of the Ima`mate).(Al-Khisal, p. 388)

Ima`m `Ali, the Commander of the Faithful, peace be on him, numbered the Ima`ms and mentioned their names one by one till he ended at al-Qa``im (the one who will under take the office of the Ima`mate).(Al-Saffar, Basa`ir al-Darajat, p. 108)

He said: [Abu` Ja`far Mohammed looked towards his son Abu` `Abd Allah (al-Sa`diq), peace be on him, and said (to us): "Do you see that man? He is one of those of whom Allah, the Mighty and High, said: We wish to grant a favor to those who have been humiliated in the land and We will make them Imams and inheritors.(Usul al-Kafi, vol. 1, p. 306).

When Ja`far (al-Sa`diq) approached, Imam Mohammad Baqir (A.S), said: "Here is the best of creatures". (Usul al-Kafi, vol. 1, p. 306 )

He said: "Ja`far, I give testamentary enjoinments to you (to treat) my followers well." So, Ima`m al-Sa`diq, peace be on him, replied: "May I be your ransom, I will make them (know their religion so well) that any man among them in the country will not (have to) ask any one (for advice). (Usul al-Kafi, vol. 1, p. 306).

[Vigilare]

(salam)

I don't think it's that easy to say why there should have been 12 Imams as opposed to 13, 20 or 49. You may as well ask why were there 124,000 prophets and not 126,789. However, it's easier to argue for a continuing line of Imams (eg Nizaris) then it is to say that it's just 'stopped' and the 12th is in occultation. There should also be some thought to as whether Zayd ibn Ali (ra) was an Imam (or perhaps others who are linked to Zaydis) etc.

[JawzofDETH]

Simple. Moses had 12, Jesus had 12. Muhammad (pbuh) didn't have 13 or more.

[Guest Christian]

Because there were 12 disiples of Christ. The Catholic Christian church believes their leader, the Pope, to be infallible. The current Pope is in the line of Apostolic succession with the first Pope being Saint Peter, one of Jesus' original 12 disciples. There were 12 tribes of Israel and 12 disciples of Christ.

[skaswani]

Salam

I would like to see more logical replies on this topic, please comment if you have any logical reason on this topic.

Thanks

[funklebits]

On 12/13/2012 at 6:03 AM, Waiting for HIM said:

Frankly the OP question is stupid, devoid of any reason.

It's asking why there are only 124,000 Prophets and why not 376,000 etc.; or why we have four divine books, why not seven.

This topic does not deserve to be in the "thinker's discourse", there is nothing intellectual about this thread

Frankly this comment is stupid. 

This subject is fascinating and I would love to learn more. 

[skaswani]

Dear All,

 

Kindly share your logical reply on this topic, thanks

Edited June 11, 2019 by skaswani
.

[Guest Light]

4 hours ago, funklebits said:

This subject is fascinating and I would love to learn more. 

Why the number of months are 12?

I come to know that this is a divine arrangement as mentioned in Qur'an:

إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَات وَالأَرْضَ

9:36 BEHOLD, the number of months, in the sight of God, is twelve months, [laid down] in God's decree on the day when He created the heavens and the Earth;

I think this is sufficient as answer to OP.

[Aragaia]

On 5/22/2018 at 6:45 PM, Guest Christian said:

Because there were 12 disiples of Christ. The Catholic Christian church believes their leader, the Pope, to be infallible. The current Pope is in the line of Apostolic succession with the first Pope being Saint Peter, one of Jesus' original 12 disciples. There were 12 tribes of Israel and 12 disciples of Christ.

Guest Christian could be onto something.

[Soldiers and Saffron]

On 5/22/2018 at 5:45 PM, Guest Christian said:

Because there were 12 disiples of Christ. The Catholic Christian church believes their leader, the Pope, to be infallible. The current Pope is in the line of Apostolic succession with the first Pope being Saint Peter, one of Jesus' original 12 disciples. There were 12 tribes of Israel and 12 disciples of Christ.

Genesis (17-18:20) 

"And as for Isma'il, I have blessed him, and I have made him fruitful. And I have truly multiplied him, he will beget twelve leaders and I will provide for him a large nation."