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moosaa14

Wearing Black & Innovations In Muharram

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Asalamon alaykom, it is common place to wear black in Muharram - as is putting up black banners and cloths. As far as I know, the Shia Jurists deem wearing black Makrooh, and I have read that the Prophet disliked the wearing of black with the exemption of the turban, the cloak and the shoes. Imam Ali (a) is reported to have said: do not wear black for it is the clothing of Pharaoh. Also it is well know that Bani Abbas wore black and forced it upon the Muslims.

There are narrations that point out after the martyrdom of Imam Hussein (a) the women of Bani Hashim wore black, but nothing that suggests the men wore black or should wear black. On the contrary, Ahlul Bayt (a) are known for never wearing black except black turbans. Their colors of choice were green, yellow, brown, beige and white. So why do we wear black in Muharram? Is it another habit that became popular and was passed down by culture? It seems to have nothing to do with our great religion or school of thought, so is hitting the heads with blades, beating the backs with chains or walking on burning coal.

I understand that crying over Imam Hussein (a) is very admirable, recommended and has its rewards - for the Prophet (s) did so himself. Love of Ahlul Bayt (a) is compulsary, but whats with the innovations? I am not against the Majlis as I know the first person to hold a Majlis commemorating Imam Hussein (a) was his son Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, but did the Imam (a) beat his chest? Did he slap his face or lose control in mourning his own father? Then why is it that some brothers look crazy during Majlis, and whats with this new method of latom called Shoor that comes after the Nazla? Looking after the reputation of Islam is a responsibility, so is spreading the truth and inviting people to it. Are these practices doing any good? Are they helping the cause or doing damage?

My view is that we should change what we do in Majlis after the lecture, such as reading the Ziyarat, praying, reciting sad Anashid and giving out food. We should also collect money to give to the poor and needy, I think Allah and Ahlul Bayt (a) would like that more than getting sweaty and slapping our chests.

Wasalam.

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Salaam

An Aalim recited a majlis on the wearing of black clothes and explained it really well, the link is below.

In regards with innovations, there a several hadith's recommending weeping and mourning in an intense way however more importantly I think we need to understand that we do not need to replace matam etc with other things, giving to the poor is important, several other messages of the Ahlul Bayt are also very important but it does not need us to stop doing matam in order to do these things.

Many of the issues you have raised are discussed by the same aalim during Muharram if you listen through his ashra you may find answers.

Wasalaam

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Dude please speak logic! What does wearing a certain color have to do with innovations, black is a mourning color and at a time of death it should be worn. When your mother dies will you wear a rainbow on your shirt? Show some respect, yes their are recommendations but it isn't anything that makes you go to hell or commit a sin. Its for everyday color, but still its just a recommendation. what if the paroah had green eyes? do we kill everyone with green eyes?Why are people so [language] ignorant!

Edited by Haji 2003

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I think Allah and Ahlul Bayt (a) would like that more than getting sweaty and slapping our chests.

Wasalam.

A.s after reading that. I'm quite enraged.

1) to think what Allah and the Ahlulbayt(as) would think is a stupid statement. Allah has given us the Quran and Ahlulbayt(as) so it is not a matter of what they think but a matter of what is permissible or not.

2) only a selected few criticise the act. (And we know who, I'm not gonna say coz I don't wanna get banned)

3) from all marjaiyeh who have studied extensively on the traditions of Ahlulbayt. And the greatest in knowledge on the traditions of mourning for Imam Hussain(as) are Ayatullah Na'eni and Ayatullah Vahid Khorasani.

Ayatullah Na'eni states:

First, taking out the mourning procession on the day of Ashura and other similar occasions, on the streets and public roads is undoubtedly permissible, and is a matter of preference. It is one of the best manifestations of our mourning and grief for the oppressed martyrs, and the best way of propagating the Husaini Mission far and wide. However, it is imperative that in such acts of reverence, people refrain from improper practices like music or use of its instruments or engaging in undue competition and rivalry and things like that. And if such practices occur, they would be deemed haram, though it does not in any way affect the procession itself. It is just like someone who stares at Na-Mahram while he is praying. The act will be a forbidden one but the prayers are not there by invalidated.

Secondly, there is no objection to beating cheeks and chest till they show redness or blackness. It is also permitted to hit one's back with chains to that extent, or, even if a little blood comes out. As to hitting one's front part of the head with the sword, it is allowed if it does not entail extra ordinary danger. It should be confined bleeding, without harming the skull bones, nor causing excessive bleeding, the same way as experienced and trained people do. However, if one does it carefully, yet in a dvertently harms himself by excessive bleeding, that would be a forbidden act, like one who did Wudhu, Ghusl or kept a fast believing that it was safe for him and then it turned out to be harmful. However, it is better, in fact Ahwat that only experienced and trained people engage in such acts. The youths who in their intense grief, love and emotions for Imam Husain (a.s.) exceed the limit and as a result carelessly harm themselves, should refrain from such acts. May Allah keep them steadfast on the right path, in this world and here after.

Thirdly, apparently there is no objection to bringing out symbols, semblances and other illustration Shabeeh, as has been customary among the Imamiya Shias during the last several centuries, even if it involves men wearing women's dress. This is done with the purpose of inciting sorrow and grief. Though we had earlier hesitated about men wearing women's dress and had put in some limitations on the matter of shabeeh in our Fatwa issued four years ago, but we have revised our view. On second thought, we are convinced that it is haram for a man to wear women's dress, by adopting it as a permanent mode of dress. But if it is worn for a brief occasion without adopting it as an attire, the way it is done during these shabeeh, it is not objectionable. We have added this to our latest notes on al-Urwah al-Wuthqa. Yes it is necessary that people refrain from committing acts which are forbidden though I have mentioned earlier that it would not affect the practice of bringing out shabeeh.

Fourth, the drums which are used in such processions, (though we have not been able to investigate its significance) are also permissible if they are meant for mourning, or calling people to assemble or to warn those who are mounted, or to rhyme with the shouts and clamour which is traditional among Arabs and provided that they are not used for rejoicing or amusement. Allãh knows best.[1]

Muhammed Husain al-Gharawi al-Naeni

5th Rabiul Awwal 1345 A.H.

Ayatullah Khorasani states in reaction to another somewhat Ayatullah in Iran's fatwa:

Afsos (woay) to those people who wish to erase these (Hussaini Sha’air) rituals.Beware people of Iran..know the smallest word spoken against the Hussaini sha’air breaks the back of the seal of the Holy Prophets (p).these azadari rituals - chest beating, beating with chains - have the highest need of being protected.

And the end of the day. Your thinking isn't the best way to go about it

Ma'salam

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On 11/19/2012 at 9:31 AM, moosaa14 said:

Asalamon alaykom, it is common place to wear black in Muharram - as is putting up black banners and cloths. As far as I know, the Shia Jurists deem wearing black Makrooh, and I have read that the Prophet disliked the wearing of black with the exemption of the turban, the cloak and the shoes. Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã is reported to have said: do not wear black for it is the clothing of Pharaoh. Also it is well know that Bani Abbas wore black and forced it upon the Muslims.

There are narrations that point out after the martyrdom of Imam Hussein Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã the women of Bani Hashim wore black, but nothing that suggests the men wore black or should wear black. On the contrary, Ahlul Bayt Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã are known for never wearing black except black turbans. Their colors of choice were green, yellow, brown, beige and white. So why do we wear black in Muharram? Is it another habit that became popular and was passed down by culture? It seems to have nothing to do with our great religion or school of thought, so is hitting the heads with blades, beating the backs with chains or walking on burning coal.

I understand that crying over Imam Hussein Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã is very admirable, recommended and has its rewards - for the Prophet (s) did so himself. Love of Ahlul Bayt Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã is compulsary, but whats with the innovations? I am not against the Majlis as I know the first person to hold a Majlis commemorating Imam Hussein Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã was his son Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, but did the Imam Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã beat his chest? Did he slap his face or lose control in mourning his own father? Then why is it that some brothers look crazy during Majlis, and whats with this new method of latom called Shoor that comes after the Nazla? Looking after the reputation of Islam is a responsibility, so is spreading the truth and inviting people to it. Are these practices doing any good? Are they helping the cause or doing damage?

My view is that we should change what we do in Majlis after the lecture, such as reading the Ziyarat, praying, reciting sad Anashid and giving out food. We should also collect money to give to the poor and needy, I think Allah and Ahlul Bayt Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã would like that more than getting sweaty and slapping our chests.

Wasalam.

http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/azadari-mourning-for-imam-hussain/wearing-black-attire.html

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In the middle eastern tradition, you would have to be Mental to wear BLACK in 40 degrees centigrate. That's the only Logic. Where do you get references of quotes by Imam Ali (AS) saying Black is the Color of Pharohs ? yada yada yada..........

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– Muhammad b. Ya`qub from `Ali b. Muhammad from Sahl b. Ziyad from Muhsin b. Ahmad from the one who he mentioned from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: I said to him: Can I pray in a black cap (qalanswa)? So he said: Do not pray in it, for it is the clothing of the garment of the Fire.

2 – al-Kulayni said: And it is narrated that you are not to pray in black clothing. However as to the khuff, the cloak, and the turban, then there is no harm.

3 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn in al-`Ilal from his father from Muhammad b. Yahya from Muhammad b. Ahmad from Sahl b. Ziyad from Muhammad b. Sulayman from a man from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: I said to him: Can I pray in a black cap? He said: Do not pray in it for it is the garment of the people of the Fire.

1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from a number of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad going up from him to Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: Black (clothing) is disliked except in three: the khuff, the turban, and the cloak.

3 – And from them from Ahmad b. Abi `Abdillah from one of his companions going up from him. He said: The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله used to dislike black (clothing) except in three: the khuff, the turban, and the cloak.

3 – And from Abu `Ali al-Ash`ari from Muhammad b. Muslim from Ahmad b. an-Nadr from `Amr b. Shimr from Jabir from Abu Ja`far عليه السلام. He said: al-Husayn b. `Ali عليه السلام was killed while there was a dark silk jubba (a long outer garment) upon him (- al-hadith)

4 – al-Kulayni said: And it is narrated not to pray in a black garment. However as to the khuff or the cloak or the turban there is no harm.

5 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn said: Amir al-Mu’mineen عليه السلام said in what he instructed his companions: Do not wear black for verily it is the garment of Fir`awn.

6 – He said: And it is narrated that Jibra’il descended upon the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله in a black qaba and a belt in which there was a dagger. So he said: O Jibra’il, what is this? So he said: The dress of the sons of your uncle al-`Abbas, O Muhammad. Woe be to your sons from the sons of your uncle al-`Abbas (- al-hadith)

Brother Nader zaveri

There is a athaar* that Yoosuf al-Bahraani takes out to show that wearing black for the mourning of Imaam al-Hussayn is an exception to this rule (of not wearing black). There are a few issues with this hadeeth, but I will mention it after showing the hadeeth.

* Athar - I said athaar and not a hadeeth, because this is not coming from one of the ma`soomeen as.gif.

و يؤيده ما رواه شيخنا المجلسي (قدس سره) عن البرقي في كتاب المحاسن انه روى عن عمر بن زين العابدين (عليه السلام) انه قال «لما قتل جدي الحسين المظلوم الشهيد لبس نساء بني هاشم في مأتمه ثياب السواد و لم يغيرنها في حر أو برد و كان الامام زين العابدين (عليه السلام) يصنع لهن الطعام في المأتم» 
And it is support what our shaykh al-Majlisī has narrated from al-Barqī in Kitāb al-Maḥāsin that he narrated from `Umar bin Zayn al-`ābidīn (عليه السلام) that he said, “When the death of my grandfather al-Ḥussayn, the oppressed, the women of Banī Hāshim for his mourning dressed in black and nothing other than that whether in heat or cold and Imām Zayn al-`ābidīn (عليه السلام) would make food for them (women of Bani Haashim) in mourning”

و الحديث منقول من كتاب جلاء العيون بالفارسية و لكن هذا حاصل ترجمته
And the ḥadīth is transmitted from the book Jilā’ al-`Uyūn in farsi, but this is the translation of it.
Source:

 

  • al-Bahraani, Hadaa'iq al-NaaDirah, vol. 7, pg. 118

Now I have a few issues with this hadeeth, al-Bahraani usually quotes directly from the book, for this case he would quote directly from al-Barqi's al-Mahaasin, but he did not. He quoted al-Majlisi who then quotes al-Barqi's al-Mahaasin. If you were to search al-Barqi's al-Mahaasin now, you cannot find this specific hadeeth. But after a long time searching, I finally found the hadeeth that they were referring to. al-Bahraani's translation from Farsi to Arabic was much different than what the original Arabic said.

Here is the hadeeth in al-Barqi's al-Mahaasin.

عنه عن الحسن بن طريف بن ناصح عن أبيه عن الحسين بن زيد عن عمر بن علي بن الحسين قال لما قتل الحسين بن علي ع لبسن نساء بني هاشم السواد و المسوح و كن لا يشتكين من حر و لا برد و كان علي بن الحسين ع يعمل لهن الطعام للمأتم
From `Umar bin `Alī bin al-Hussayn said, “When al-Ḥussayn bin `Alī (عليه السلام) was killed, the women of Banī Hāshim wore black and smeared/wiped (?), and they did not complain from heat nor cold, and `Alī bin al-Ḥussayn (عليه السلام) made for them (women of Bani Haashim) food for mourning”
Source:

  • al-Barqi, al-Mahaasin, vol. 2, ch. 25, pg. 420, hadeeth # 195

According to both al-Shahroodi says this about al-Hasan (al-Hussayn) bin Zayd bin `Alee bin al-Hussayn in his Mustadarakaat fee `ilm al-Rijaal, vol. 2, pg. 391, person # 3545:
3545 - الحسن بن زيد بن علي بن الحسين صلوات الله عليهما:
لم يذكروه.

3545 - al-Hasan bin Zayd bin `Alee bin al-Hussayn as.gif
And he is not mentioned (in the books of Rijaal).

This means that he is majhool (unknown) according to al-Shahroodi. Also, according to al-Khoei he is majhool as well.

Also, the way Hurr al-`Aamili interpreted this hadeeth was that this being only for three days. He puts this hadeeth under this chapter in his Wasaa'il al-Shee`ah, vol. 3, pg. 235, ch. 67:

67 بَابُ اسْتِحْبَابِ اتِّخَاذِ الطَّعَامِ لِأَهْلِ الْمُصِيبَةِ ثَلَاثَةَ أَيَّامٍ وَ الْبَعْثِ بِهِ إِلَيْهِمْ وَ كَرَاهَةِ الْأَكْلِ عِنْدَهُمْ
67 – Chapter on the disireability of taking food to the family members (who are going through) museebah (disaster, calamity, death, etc.) for three days, and it being sent to them, and the dislike (makrooh) of eating with them

Notice how he did not make an exception for doing it in Muharram every year for Imaam al-Hussayn, he restricted it to the three days.

One thing I would like to elucidate regarding this hadeeth is it is talking specifically about the Women of Bani Haashim. Now, the clothing for women and men are totally different, especially in regards to color. People might have a better argument trying to say it is permissible to wear black for women, but for men it would not make sense as this hadeeth does not apply to everyone. Not only that, according to Hurr al-`Aamilee, it doesn't apply to all times, as it is seen today.

Some contemporary scholars have tried to make exceptions to this rule of not wearing black clothing. Jawad al-Tabrizi is one of them, he has authored a treatise titledRisaalah al-MukhtaSar fee Labbas al-Aswad (Concise Treatise on Black Clothing).

After reading the arguments for black clothing, it is another post-justification of practices.

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On 11/9/2013 at 9:50 AM, IbnSohan said:

It is also disliked to pray wearing red-orange-yellow cloths...But of course it is not a topic that can be used to attack shia although many of them wear these "disliked" clothes during salat, not even haram cloths.

True, it is not haram. But many do even recommended shia men to wear black in muharram. Thats bidah. 

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On 11/9/2013 at 9:56 AM, Nima said:

True, it is not haram. But many do even recommended shia men to wear black in muharram. Thats bidah. 

it is bid'ah to call something bid'ah when it isnt.

Wearing black is not haram, it is disliked  for men and women. It is not the only disliked color, almost all the dark colors are disliked specially the dark red. The hadiths did not specify the men, the rule applies on men and women. Now there are hadiths about the family of Ima Hussain wearing black all the time after their return as they grieved on Imam Hussain and Imam Zayn Al'abideen did not ask them to change the color.

There is a hadith about Imam Hassan coming up on Minbar wearing black after the death of his father Imam Ali...

where do you put these hadith? should we call Imams a people of bid'ah as well?

do you know even what bid'ah is?

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On 11/9/2013 at 10:09 AM, IbnSohan said:

it is bid'ah to call something bid'ah when it isnt.

Wearing black is not haram, it is disliked  for men and women. It is not the only disliked color, almost all the dark colors are disliked specially the dark red. The hadiths did not specify the men, the rule applies on men and women. Now there are hadiths about the family of Ima Hussain wearing black all the time after their return as they grieved on Imam Hussain and Imam Zayn Al'abideen did not ask them to change the color.

There is a hadith about Imam Hassan coming up on Minbar wearing black after the death of his father Imam Ali...

where do you put these hadith? should we call Imams a people of bid'ah as well?

do you know even what bid'ah is?

What do you expect from internet rijalists? All they do is shove hadith down your throat like their some revered, knowledgable scholar. They make quick conclusions fit to their desires...

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On 11/9/2013 at 10:09 AM, IbnSohan said:

it is bid'ah to call something bid'ah when it isnt.

Wearing black is not haram, it is disliked  for men and women. It is not the only disliked color, almost all the dark colors are disliked specially the dark red. The hadiths did not specify the men, the rule applies on men and women. Now there are hadiths about the family of Ima Hussain wearing black all the time after their return as they grieved on Imam Hussain and Imam Zayn Al'abideen did not ask them to change the color.

There is a hadith about Imam Hassan coming up on Minbar wearing black after the death of his father Imam Ali...

where do you put these hadith? should we call Imams a people of bid'ah as well?

do you know even what bid'ah is?

Sorry, I should not have said that.

The point is that many people claim that it is mustahab to wear black in Muharram.

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On 11/9/2013 at 2:05 PM, Dar said:

(bismillah)

You are not mujtahideen, stop giving fatawa. Giving Fatwa when you are not Ahl al-fatwa (ie a mujtahid) is absolutely forbidden.

في أمان الله

http://www.alseraj.net/4/?2

 Rules regarding cloths of prayer. It is a summery of a consecutive chapters in wasail.

On 11/9/2013 at 2:19 PM, Nima said:

Sorry, I should not have said that.

The point is that many people claim that it is mustahab to wear black in Muharram.

There is a chapter called "the study of contradictory reports" it is usually studied in Hawza for those who intend to be fuqaha, now I am no expert in Fiqh nor intending to be a faqih but if you are keen to learn how to solve the contradictions of reports (that is IF you give a wight to what our scholars wrote) then you can google it yourself.

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Wasail ul Shia Volume 4 Chapter 19 Hadith # 5469

Imam Jafar Sadiq (alaihe salam) was questioned about his wearing of black clothing, even though it is makrooh. The Imam said: "If you are white on the inside, you may wear whatever you please."

People should know that you should mourn in your heart. Black clothes mean nothing.

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Quote

it is common place to wear black in Muharram - as is putting up black banners and cloths. As far as I know, the Shia Jurists deem wearing black Makrooh,

Salam. There has been a disagreement about wearing black clothing, but during mourning for Ahlul Bayt AS it is allowed. 

Wearing of following types of items are makrooh at anytime and during salat and will reduce the sawab of salat:

(a) Dress with pictures of a living being (animal or human)
(b) Ring or jewellery inscribed with pictures of living being
(c) Black dress except that used during azadari (mourning for Imams AS)
(d) Tattoos on the body unless it is of vulgar type

Four types of black dress are not makrooh anytime and during salat:

(a) Black turban (ammama), 
(b) Black long robe (aba qaba) worn by scholars, 
(c) Black socks, 
(d) Black ladies chador (over garment).

ttp://www.islamic-laws.com/salaat.htm

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25 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

الحسن بن طريف بن ناصح، عن أبيه، عن الحسين بن زيد، عن عمر بن علي بن الحسين، قال: لما قتل الحسين بن علي (عليه السلام) لبسن نساء بني هاشم السواد - المحاسن

Umar bin Ali bin al-Hussain* said: "When al-Hussain bin Ali عليهما السلام was killed, the women of Bani Hashim wore black". ~ al-Mahasin

محب الدين الطبري (المتوفى: 694هـ): وعن المطلب بن زياد قال: رثت الجن عمر, فكان فيما قالوا:
ستبكيك نساء الجن ... تبكين منتحبات
وتخمشن وجوها ... كالدنانير النقيات
ويلبس ثياب السود ... بعد القصبيات (الرياض النضرة في مناقب العشرة)

Muhibbuddin writes that (apparently) Muttalib bin Ziyad said:
Al-Mutalib bin Zyad says that upon the death of Umar the Jinns recited this eulogy:
"While mourning your death the ladies of the Jinns are beating their faces, which resemble Dinars in beauty, and they are wearing black attires instead of silken ones.” ~ Riyadh al-Nadhira (Sunni source)

... If the jin can supposedly wear black and mourn for Umar, why can't the family of the prince of Jannah do so for him?

Assalamu Alaikom

These are reports, but none show the Imams encouraging this. 

Wasail ul Shia Volume 3 Page 378            Imam Jafar Sadigh (alaihe salam) said: "Black is makrooh except for three things. The turban, cloak and thawb."       (I am not 100% sure of thawb but I know cloak and turban for sure)

Possibly chadors also fall under the category of cloaks, which made that halal. As for the jinns, it is well known that although jinn can see more things than us, they are not as intelligent. The practice of slapping the cheeks was ancient Arabian, and imitating them is against the sunnat.

Nahjul Balagha Saying 49                            When Imam Ali (alaihe salam) was asked of why the Prophet (sallallahu alaihe wasallam) would die his beard, He replied that it was to avoid reseblance with the Jews, but now that Muslims are numerous it is allowed.

So these hadiths are most likely not very reliable.

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But later Imams discouraged this. In the hadith I quoted from Wasail ul Shia Volume 4 Chapter 19 Hadith #5469 Imam Jafar Sadigh (alaihe salam) reports that he said "If you are in white on the inside, you can wear anything you want." That means there is no reward. Even if its not makrooh, it does not make your mourning any better.

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But our dear Imam Jafar Sadigh (alaihe salam) was forced into wearing it. If it was ok to wear he would have not resisted until his life was at risk. This is an example of it being makrooh. (1)

1. Wasail ul Shia Volume 4 Page 382

PS: The hadith I quoted (Wasail ul Shia Volume 3 Page 378) was actually Volume 4 Page 382. I get hadiths mixed up some times.

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