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Quranist

Serious Narration In Book Against Ali Ibn Abitalib

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(bismillah)

got it from Internet, what could be possible reply to it?

Apostasy in the light of Qur'an

Peace to the world,

This topic is a bit controversial. Apostasy, is there a punishment for those who leave the faith of Islam ? Is there any punishment for those who leave the faith and join and share her/his other faith with people ? A term I came across , that is used by many traditional muslims for this is "Murtaad".

If we ignore the Qur'an and simply obey what we hear from people that claim to be imams/sheikhs/scholars/etc, we will come to 2 answers for our question.

Answer 1: Yes, leaving the faith of Islam is a crime punishable by death.

Answer 2: No, simply leaving the faith does not qualify you for a death penalty. However, if you share/promote your new faith with others, you have to be given a death penalty.

I have come across traditional islamic preachers who compare Apostasy(leaving your faith) to Treason (the act of betraying your own country) to try and justify the death penalty.

Let us explore the Qur'an and see what it has to say on the issue, starting with a hadith from Sahih Bukhari that speaks lies on such issues:

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57 :

Narrated by 'Ikrima

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Ofcourse giving death penalty to anyone because he/she changed their faith is unislamic and a lie about the messenger of God. Let us see this from the Qur'an :

"Say: O rejecters,

I do not serve what you serve

Nor do you serve what I serve

Nor will I serve what you serve

Nor will you serve what I serve

To you is your system, and to me is mine"

[ Qur'an 109:1-6]

So even in the extreme case where you percieve a person to be a kafir, you are not asked to go and cut off the head of that person or execute the person. To you will be your deen (system) to the other person is theirs.

Not only in the above example, the Qur'an makes clear that on the matter of faith, one can not force others, let alone kill in the name of Islam:

"There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been clarified from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in God, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower."

[Qur'an 2:256]

There is no forcing each other in Islam, yet, the traditional scholars/sheikhs/imams try to inject their dirty wishful thinkings into Islam. These sheikhs/imams think of themselves as some form of police, guardian, military approved of God who are supposed to force people to follow what God wants when those people dont want it. Ofcourse these sheikhs/imams contradict the teaching we find in Qur'an:

"Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed God; and whoever turns away, We have not sent you as a guardian over them."

[Qur'an 4:80]

"So if they turn away, then you are only required to deliver clearly."

[Qur'an 16:82]

"And if God had willed, they would not have set up partners. And We did not place you over them as a guardian, nor are you over them as a sponsor."

[Qur'an 6:107]

"We have sent down to you the Book for the people with the truth. Then, whoever is guided is guided for himself, and whoever goes astray goes astray to his own loss. And you are not a keeper over them."

[Qur'an 39:41]

The Qur'an repeats it so many times that if God wanted, he could make all of us obey, we are not supposed to force others like we are some kind of guardian over them. But still, the sheikhs/imams/scholars of traditional islam ignore this. They want to threaten people with death penalty if they differ in opinion regarding faith. The following ayaat is thought provoking:

"He said: "O my people, do you see that should I be upon a clarity from my Lord, and He has given me a mercy from Himself, that you may be blinded to it? Shall we compel you to it while in-fact you hate it?" "

[Qur'an 11:28]

It looks like, the imams/sheikhs would answer this question with..."Yes, why only compel ? lets give them death penalty". Its even more ironic how these same people keeps moaning all day saying that their Islam is not spread by sword !!

It has come to my attention that some haters of Qur'an along with extremists that hide under the title of "muslims" are using verses from Qur'an to either show that Qur'an promotes killing of apostates or in the case of "muslim" extremists, to show that they can kill a person if they no longer follow Islam. One can cherry pick many places, but I am only showing one example I found in a website called "faithfreedom". The verses are 4:88 to 4:89:

"What is the matter with you that you are divided into two groups over the hypocrites, while God has regressed them for what they have earned? Do you want to guide those whom God misguides? Whoever God causes to be misguided, you will never find for him a path. They hope that you will reject as they have rejected, then you will be the same. Do not take any of them as allies until they emigrate in the cause of God. If they turn away, then take them and kill them wherever you find them; and do not take from them any ally or supporter."

[Qur'an 4:88-89]

People may read this and immediately jump into conclusions. However, those who are sincere enough will atleast read further. Let me show you the next verse and destroy this falsehood:

"Except for those who reach a people with whom you have a covenant, or if they come to you with a reluctance in their chests to fight you or to fight their own people. Had God willed He would have given them strength and they would have fought you. But if they retire from you, and do not fight you, and they offer you peace; then God does not make for you a path against them."

[Qur'an 4:90]

So we see that the fighting against apostates in 4:89 is only limited to those who are waging war on you, not those who are peaceful and do not wish you harm (highlighted in red in the above verse 4:90).

Now, not to attack any other religion, but I must share where these imams/scholars/sheikhs and their hadith compiling liars got their inspiration from, since its not from Qur'an.

Holy Bible (Leviticus 24:16)

"anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death"

Holy Bible (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

It will be unfair to end it here, let us see what the Qur'an actually says about those who leave the system of God.

"O you who believe, whoever from among you turns away from His system, then God will bring a people whom He loves and they love Him; humble towards the believers, proud towards the rejecters; they strive in the cause of God and do not fear to be blamed by those who blame. This is the grace of God, He bestows it upon whom He wills; God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable."

[Qur'an 5:54]

"Those who believed, then rejected, then believed, then rejected, then they increased in rejection; God was not to forgive them nor to guide them to the path."

[Qur'an 4:137]

"Whoever rejects God after having believed - except for he who is forced while his heart is still content with belief - and has comforted his chest towards rejection, then these will have a wrath from God and they will have a great retribution."

[Qur'an 16:106]

This theme is repeated throughout the Qur'an, God does not love those who conceal and reject truth. However, God never asks you and I or anyone to go and start giving death penalty to those whom we may percieve as kafirs/rejectors.

Perhaps, the following verses from the Qur'an best summarizes what we should or should not do with people whom we percieve to be rejectors:

"And leave Me to deal with the deniers who have been given the good things, and give them time for a while."

[Qur'an 73:11]

"So leave Me alone with he whom I have created.And I gave him abundant wealth. And sons to bear witness. And I made everything comfortable for him. Then he is greedy, wanting that I give more. No. He was stubborn to Our revelations."

[Qur'an 74:11-16]

Yes, just as we read above in the statements of God, we should give them their time (after all, life is a test !!). We should leave the matter with God. We do not know what is in the heart of a person, God does. When you believe in the words of Qur'an, so put your trust in it and act accordingly. Leave them for God to deal with.

Feel free to comment/criticize this post in the comment section. May God guide us all into His straight path.

Peace be on you

there are few other things which this lady claims....may be some body has TIME and knowledge to refute her.....

http://studentofallah.blogspot.in/

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If life is a test and people have free choice on earth. Then by what right are we allowed to kill them when they give the wrong answer? Shoudln't we give them a chance to come back?

I'm saying this cuz, right now in my life I have about 4 people close to me who "by definition" would be considered apostates... But live their lives happily in pursuit of truth and I think some day at least one of them might come back to islam.

The Quran talks about people who are apostates and break the oath and go to war against islam. Not about confused people who saw some youtube movie about aliens and believe the aliens created us.... I think one should give those people time, not kill them...

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If life is a test and people have free choice on earth. Then by what right are we allowed to kill them when they give the wrong answer? Shoudln't we give them a chance to come back?

I'm saying this cuz, right now in my life I have about 4 people close to me who "by definition" would be considered apostates... But live their lives happily in pursuit of truth and I think some day at least one of them might come back to islam.

The Quran talks about people who are apostates and break the oath and go to war against islam. Not about confused people who saw some youtube movie about aliens and believe the aliens created us.... I think one should give those people time, not kill them...

The only apostates that are allowed to be given time are the ones who weren't born a Muslim. I suggest you disassociate yourself from these 4 apostates, otherwise you would be going against Islam.

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Q4:137

"Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- God will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way."

So Allah says there's a chance of them coming back, plus Allah is the one who has authority to punish them.

5:032

"From that time We ordained on the children of Israel that whoever kills a soul, unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land, it is as though he has killed all mankind."

The quran only talks about killing the apostate who ALSO causes mischief in the land.

Edited by Jaysro

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Apostasy is 100% punishable under Islam. Males are to be killed, females are to be imprisoned for life. It doesn't contradict the Qur'an at all.

You know, for the most questioning person I believe I've ever seen in my whole life, and who doesn't know how to use google, you settle at your opinion way to quickly..Zaveri's blog says that yes, then look at what scholars like Motahiri read up and argued about these points..

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You know, for the most questioning person I believe I've ever seen in my whole life, and who doesn't know how to use google, you settle at your opinion way to quickly..Zaveri's blog says that yes, then look at what scholars like Motahiri read up and argued about these points..

What do you mean by the 'most questioning'? Is there something wrong with asking questions? There are authentic hadith where our Imams say it is obligatory to kill male apostates, how can you get around that??? How can 'Motahiri' argue against that???

Edited by Dragonborn

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dragonborn, apostacy is NOT punishable.

The Quran says " let there be no compulsion in religion, for truth stands clear from error"

if it is punishable, i am going to find myself a new religon - it is not, because everything makes sense both morally, and intuatively.

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Apostasy is 100% punishable under Islam. Males are to be killed, females are to be imprisoned for life. It doesn't contradict the Qur'an at all.

What nonsense is this ? There is no Punishment for Apostasy in Islam. Those who were punished for Apostasy in historical terms, were punished because of the state laws, not because of the reason there is anything in the Quran on Punishing people for Apostasy.

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What do you mean by the 'most questioning'? Is there something wrong with asking questions? There are authentic hadith where our Imams say it is obligatory to kill male apostates, how can you get around that??? How can 'Motahiri' argue against that???

Lool, nothing is wrong with questioning, but then again you're doing unreasonable questioning, questioning which can we solved through reading, listening, and at the least, googling. And Hujjatil Islam Sayyid Muhammad Rizvi (Representative of Seestani [hf]) had explained to us (me and some friends) when one of us asked about the Ahadith of Taqiyya in Kafi, he explained to us how some scholars like Sadooq explained that a lot of narrations like these were given over a select context which we'd need to look at before employing the Hadith. And Motahiri didn't argue against the Hadith, however put it in more or less a proper context..

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Surah An Nisa' , Ayah 89

"They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

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