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MAFHHM

Shiachat Members Vs Shias Of Ahlulbayt

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Salamun Alaikum,

I came across a very stunning hadith, and I would like to share it and receive your reflection. I got it from Chapter 12 of Ghaybah Nu'mani.

4 - ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈæ ÓáíãÇä ÃÍãÏ Èä åæÐÉ ÇáÈÇåáí¡ ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈæ ÅÓÍÇÞ ÅÈÑÇåíã Èä ÅÓÍÇÞ ÇáäåÇæäÏí ÓäÉ ËáÇË æÓÈÚíä æãÇÆÊíä ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÍãÇÏ ÇáÃäÕÇÑí ÓäÉ ÊÓÚ æÚÔÑíä æãÇÆÊíä¡ Úä ÑÌá¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå A: Ãäå ÏÎá Úáíå ÈÚÖ ÃÕÍÇÈå ÝÞÇá áå: ÌÚáÊ ÝÏÇß¡ Åäí æÇááå ÃÍÈß æÃÍÈ ãä íÍÈß¡ íÇ ÓíÏí ãÇ ÃßËÑ ÔíÚÊßã¡ ÝÞÇá áå: ÃÐßÑåã¡ ÝÞÇá: ßËíÑ¡ ÝÞÇá: ÊÍÕíåã¿ ÝÞÇá: åã ÃßËÑ ãä Ðáß. ÝÞÇá ÃÈæ ÚÈÏ Çááå A:

ÃãÇ áæ ßãõáÊ ÇáÚÏøÉ ÇáãæÕæÝÉ ËáÇËãÇÆÉ æÈÖÚÉ ÚÔÑ ßÇä ÇáÐí ÊÑíÏæä¡ æáßäø ÔíÚÊäÇ ãóä áÇ íÚÏæ ÕæÊå ÓãÚå æáÇ ÔÍäÇÄå ÈÏäå æáÇ íãÏÍ ÈäÇ ãÚáäÇð æáÇ íÎÇÕã ÈäÇ ÞÇáíÇð æáÇ íÌÇáÓ áäÇ ÚÇíÈÇð æáÇ íÍÏË áäÇ ËÇáÈÇð æáÇ íÍÈ áäÇ ãÈÛÖÇð æáÇ íÈÛÖ áäÇ ãÍÈÇð.

(4) Abu Sulayman Ahmad bin Hawtha al-Bahili narrated from Abu Iss~haq Ibraheem bin Iss~haq an-Nahawandi from Abdullah bin Hammad al-Ansari from someone that one of the companions had come to Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (s) and said to him:

“May I die for you! By Allah, I love you and love whoever loves you. O my master, how many your Shia are!”

Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (s) said: “Would you please mention them?”

The man said: “They are too many.”

He said: “Could you count them?”

The man said: “They are much more than to be counted.”

Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (s) said: “If the number becomes three hundred and a little more then what you want will happen. Our Shia are those, whose voice dose not pass beyond their ears, nor does their zeal go beyond their body, nor do they praise us openly, nor quarrel with anyone because of us, nor sit with anyone criticizing us, nor talk with anyone abusing us, nor love whoever hates us and do not hate whoever loves us.”

ÝÞáÊ: ÝßíÝ ÃÕäÚ ÈåÐå ÇáÔíÚÉ ÇáãÎÊáÝÉ ÇáÐíä íÞæáæä Åäåã íÊÔíÚæä¿

ÝÞÇá: Ýíåã ÇáÊãííÒ æÝíåã ÇáÊãÍíÕ æÝíåã ÇáÊÈÏíá¡ íÃÊí Úáíåã Óäæä ÊÝäíåã¡ æÓíÝ íÞÊáåã¡ æÇÎÊáÇÝñ íÈÏÏåã. ÅäãÇ ÔíÚÊäÇ ãä áÇ íåÑø åÑíÑ ÇáßáÈ æáÇ íØãÚ ØãÚ ÇáÛÑÇÈ¡ æáÇ íÓÃá ÇáäÇÓ ÈßÝøå æÅä ãÇÊ ÌæÚÇð.

ÞáÊ: ÌÚáÊ ÝÏÇß¡ ÝÃíä ÃØáÈ åÄáÇÁ ÇáãæÕæÝíä ÈåÐå ÇáÕÝÉ¿

ÝÞÇá: ÃØáÈåã Ýí ÃØÑÇÝ ÇáÃÑÖ¡ ÃæáÆß ÇáÎÝíÖ ÚíÔåã¡ ÇáãäÊÞáÉ ÏÇÑåã¡ ÇáÐíä Åä ÔåÏæÇ áã íÚÑÝæÇ¡ æÅä ÛÇÈæÇ áã íÝÊÞÏæÇ¡ æÅä ãÑÖæÇ áã íÚÇÏæÇ¡ æÅä ÎØÈæÇ áã íÒæøÌæÇ¡ æÅä ãÇÊæÇ áã íÔåóÏæÇ¡ ÃæáÆß ÇáÐíä Ýí ÃãæÇáåã íÊæÇÓæä¡ æÝí ÞÈæÑåã íÊÒÇæÑæä¡ æáÇ ÊÎÊáÝ ÃåæÇÄåã æÅä ÇÎÊáÝÊ Èåã ÇáÈáÏÇä.

The man said: “Then how do we deal with these different groups, who pretend that they are Shia?”

He said: “They will be tried, purified and distinguished. Years come that will perish them, a sword that will kill them and disagreement that will scatter them. Our real Shia are those, who do not growl like a dog, do not covet like a crow and do not ask people for alms even if they die of hunger.”

The man said: “May I die for you! Where can I find such a kind of people?”

He said: “You can find them in the far sides of the world. They are those, whose lives are so simple, whose abodes move from place to another, who if are seen, will not be known, if absent, will not be missed, if become ill, will not be visited, if propose to a woman, will not be married and if die, their funerals will not be attended. It is they, who divide their monies among them, who visit each other in

their graves and who never disagree even if their countries are different.”[1]

The same was narrated by Muhammad bin Hammam from Hameed bin Ziyad al-Kufi from al-Hasan bin Muhammad bin Suma’a from Ahmad bin al-Hasan al-Maythami from Ali bin Mansoor from Ibraheem bin Muhzim al-Asadi from his father from Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (s) but with an addition:

æÅäú ÑÃæÇ ãÄãäÇð ÃßÑãæå¡ æÅä ÑÃæÇ ãäÇÝÞÇð åÌÑæå¡ æÚäÏ ÇáãæÊ áÇ íÌÒÚæä¡ æÝí ÞÈæÑåã íÊÒÇæÑæä…

“If they see a believer, they will honor him and if they see a hypocrite, they will leave him aside. They do not worry when about to die and they visit each other in their graves…”[2]

[1] Biharul Anwar, vol.68 p.164, Mo’jam Ahadeeth al-Imam al-Mahdi, vol.4 p.10.

[2] Ibid.

Edited by MAFHHM

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That was the age of taqqiyah, so praising them openly clearly contradicted their teachings, and commands, but in this age you can't twist its meaning on present day Shias praising them. How do you explain the Shia uprisings in the end of the days, like khurasani, yamaani ,nafs e Zakkiya ,etc. Are they condemned Shias? or are they Shiachatters? .No, they are praise worthy, Shias can't hide in holes, and conceal their praises in this age, when Shi'ism is under attack from every quarter. How can they remain complacent, when they are being declared kuffar through net, books, pulpits etc. Imamat is criticized, Ahlebait, (as) are insulted through modern means, they shouldn't defend it? So letting everyone believing the heretic stuff being propagated . Now you would say they were being insulted back then too, but in those times ,Shias speaking against that could lead to their elimination, and for survival of Shi'ism ,it was needed to be patient.

Now there are millions of Shias, everyone know where, and who they are. Their silence equates crime, as there will be no one to propagate truth, since Imamat is in ghaybah. Back then, Imams, (as) were present in public too.

When Prophet(saww) said that ''zikr e Ali, (as) is ibadah'', read imali Sadooq. He didn't mention this ibadah has to be done in close quarters always.

And read my signature, Syeda Zainab,(as) said in her sermon, to yazeed laeen ,that ''you'll never be able to eradicate our memory'', who is keeping this memory alive in this age? Whom she was referring towards. Their 'memory' is relive openly every year, Her Prayer got answered in the form of this nation, who isn't 'hiding' their memory.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra

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The hadiths are beautiful. But I wouldn't try to play around with the words of Imams. If you find wisdom in their words, follow it.

But don't try to interpret and manipulate their words. They were the knowledgeable one, not you.

Hey buddy, don't get personal.

As I said, I needed your feedback after reflection, not your taunts. If I had decided upon its meaning, I would not have invited reflection and sharing of thoughts.

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I think the following section of the hadith indicates that the traits mentioned before of the shias are not related to times of extreme taqiyyah:

The man said: “May I die for you! Where can I find such a kind of people?”

He said: “You can find them in the far sides of the world. They are those, whose lives are so simple, whose abodes move from place to another, who if are seen, will not be known, if absent, will not be missed, if become ill, will not be visited, if propose to a woman, will not be married and if die, their funerals will not be attended. It is they, who divide their monies among them, who visit each other in

their graves and who never disagree even if their countries are different.”[1]

Why? Because only during taqiyyah such people living in the far sides of the world does not connect. It is a general indication.

So I would again try to reflect upon the hadith. The Imam[a] is saying these traits that are being mentioned are of the 300+ companions, and those who want to walk in their direction:

Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (s) said:

“If the number becomes three hundred and a little more then what you want will happen. Our Shia are those, whose voice does not pass beyond their ears, nor does their zeal go beyond their body, nor do they praise us openly, nor quarrel with anyone because of us, nor sit with anyone criticizing us, nor talk with anyone abusing us, nor love whoever hates us and do not hate whoever loves us.”

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Hey buddy, don't get personal.

As I said, I needed your feedback after reflection, not your taunts. If I had decided upon its meaning, I would not have invited reflection and sharing of thoughts.

That was my feedback.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from. Nowadays everyone is peddling hadiths. It's very hard to know who is sincere and truthful and who is playing around with hadiths because he is on an ego trip.

Maybe you are sincere. But the title of your topic is definitely attention grabbing. Do you think Shiachat Members are in a different class than the Shias of Ahl al-Bayt? If so, which class do you think you are in?

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That was my feedback.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from. Nowadays everyone is peddling hadiths. It's very hard to know who is sincere and truthful and who is playing around with hadiths because he is on an ego trip.

Maybe you are sincere. But the title of your topic is definitely attention grabbing. Do you think Shiachat Members are in a different class than the Shias of Ahl al-Bayt? If so, which class do you think you are in?

When I say something against Shiachat Members, I include myself. The hadith might be tough guidance for me too, if my understanding of it turns correct.

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