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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Christianlady

Husbands, Love Your Wives! :)

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Hello Christian Lady,

Happy to see you propagating love for wives! As another member of this forum stated, it is identical to the teachings of Islam. In Islam, love for the wife is promoted, alongside love for the mother. Additionally, women are given sexual rights (e.g. if the husband does not have sex with his wife, she has a right to complain and get a divorce), and women are given family rights (e.g. possibility to get paid to suckle her child, independent property, optional divorce rights, etc). In that sense, at a spiritual level men are taught to love their wives, but there are also rulings to ensure sexual rights and legal rights to prevent certain abuse. Have others been able to point you to references? Otherwise, I can sift through my notes and bring out references for you.

If you are hoping to do a compare and contrast with modern day Islam, then I advise to make a clear distinction between Islam the religion and Muslims the people. Islam is fundamentally a Philosophy of submitting oneself to God. You can find its rulings and understand it for yourself. Muslims theoretically must be living examples of this Philosophy, but given their human nature, they also have a factor of culture, heritage, and history. From my experiences, people are more cultural than religious. As such, from the outside you may view Muslims and believe you are seeing Islam in action, but you are more seeing culture in action. Please be careful in this regard when seeking answers. From what I see in culture, husbands do not love their wives as much as they should. There also seems to be a misunderstanding and an under appreciation of a woman's role and her inherent abilities of intelligence and leadership. Fortunately, you do not find this in authentic Islam (you do in "weak" Islam).

I have a question for you though. While the ideal is for a husband to love his wife, what happens if the husband doesn't? What rights does a Christian woman have at this point to protect herself? For example, what if the husband claims her property, belittles her, restricts her lifestyle (e.g. stay home), does not sexually please her, etc. What can she invoke from Christianity to improve her state and remove herself from such a man?

I look forward to your response!

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Hi Payam. Nice to see another Canadian on the site.

Not that I'm up for answering for Christian Lady, as she does it so much better, but it has to warm up out outside before I can get busy, and I'm bored.

In true Christianity, no. No divorce. Jesus said that we are married in the sight of God. God marries us and what God puts together, no man should take apart.

That was his statement. He was asked for it as a test of course, by the Pharisees. Jesus did tell them their rules according to Moses, but added it was by the hardness of their hearts that Moses added this precept. BTW it included men "putting away" their wives, it also applied vice versa.

Paul says the same thing in a letter to his church in Corinth. He actually gives less leeway than Moses, but when dealing with Gentiles...Pretty much had to start with telling them to stop messing around and stick to the one they married. That's 1 Corinthians ch 7. It's almost a comical read, but then he also has to deal with those unequally wed, believers/non. He ends it with a statement of his own opinion saying, if the unbeliever goes, let them.

Paul highly recomends staying single.

Bottom line is once married, always married. Make your decision, make your commitment, stick to it.

We know it doesn't work that way anymore. Depending on where in the world you are...

About 6 months ago, my neighbours neighbour, (a devouted JW) got into an argument with the rubby son. The wife called in a domestic dispute and the cops came cuffed him, hauled him away for a week until she admitted she did it because she was mad.

My nephew, married a woman who already had a child. The child went wild in her teens. Nephew has two other young children and confronted the wild one on her bad influence, laid down the law so she accused him of rape years earlier, then moved to another province where she could continue in her ways. He was out of the house for 9 months before he, (and his wife) could convince the courts to let him back home. She never even laid a charge, just an accusation.

Lawyers made many dollars as their is big money in grief, and nephew will be a long time recovering. She, the wild one, also said it because she was mad at him.

Bet that wouldn't work in the Mid-East.

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idiotic post. christian lady you sound like the world's biggest problem is a husband's love to his wife. Billion in world are dying from hunger and the sweet sixteen sensitive housewife is more interested in fulfilling his half hour lust. I don't know why humans are becoming so mean. we all have one thing in our mind, i.e me,my,myself.

um relax bro

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One day bro, insha'Allah :D

Hello Ali Musaaa,

Being married is a gift from God to many people. :) It is a great blessing because God made most humans to be one flesh with a person of the other gender. Now, He has given some people the ability and/or calling to be single and abstinent from intimate sexual relations and marriage. However, for most people marriage (having a husband or wife) is a great blessing from God that requires love, kindness, caring communication, and daily commitment. Love in marriage is like a tree. It can grow strong and tall if it is protected by both the husband and the wife. :)

I personally wish that all who want to get married do so and love and respect their spouse!!! For me personally, after my relationship with God through Jesus Christ, my relationship with my husband is the 2nd most wonderful gift and blessing from our Creator!!!

Peace and God bless you

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Thank you Christian Lady for the reply.

I require more education on Christian matters to be able to understand the big picture or reply with more detailed questions. Can you please recommend authoritative books that can first help to explain the denominations of Christianity, and the authoritative figures in Christianity (e.g. Paul)? I can then, time permitting, read into them and come back with better questions.

---

If I did not misunderstand, at surface level in your reply, there seems to be an emphasis on God establishing justice for humans rather than humans establishing God's justice. In your reply, you seemed to gloss over a woman's legal rights on Earth:

Sadly, other men though are not receptive to God even after God continually invites them to transform with His help and leading. In cases such as this, Christian women have the right to let the man go and to trust in God's provision, actively seeking help from the family of Christ.

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Thank you Christian Lady for the reply.

Hello Payam,

Thanks for the interesting discussion. :)

I require more education on Christian matters to be able to understand the big picture or reply with more detailed questions. Can you please recommend authoritative books that can first help to explain the denominations of Christianity, and the authoritative figures in Christianity (e.g. Paul)? I can then, time permitting, read into them and come back with better questions.

Sure. Corrie ten Boom's books are not so much doctrine, but rather the Christian faith in action. I recommend her books most highly, since she lived the Christian faith even when it hurt her (she was imprisoned than placed in a concentration camp by the Nazis for rescuing Jewish people). God rescued her however and gave her the job to teach forgiveness and love for one's enemies. Forgiveness and love are crucial in the Christian faith.

As for Paul,

Dr. Ravi Zacharias talks about Paul in the following youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB6mWYZYeuA

If you can get youtube, looking up Dr. Ravi Zacharias would be a good way to understand Christian beliefs. I believe God gave Dr. Ravi Zacharias wisdom through His Holy Spirit. The following is his answer to a Muslim's good question concerning Jesus' "code." Dr. Ravi Zacharias explains very well concerning Jesus' teachings, and mentions Paul briefly, as well as briefly explains about denominations:

---

If I did not misunderstand, at surface level in your reply, there seems to be an emphasis on God establishing justice for humans rather than humans establishing God's justice. In your reply, you seemed to gloss over a woman's legal rights on Earth:

Could you please expound what you meant?

In Christian beliefs, the end result is not here on earth, but rather spending forever with God! Our human bodies die... here on earth there are trials and tribulations. Jesus emphasized the Kingdom of Heaven, and said the following:

Matthew 6 (I boldened some.)

http://www.biblegate...w 6&version=NIV

"19 Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

This is the case for both men and women. God is the Judge of all the inhabitants of the earth. We are inhabitants of the earth who exist not to judge others, but rather to love and obey God and love others (Matthew 22:37-40).

The rest was outlining God's methodology in establishing justice. This causes an issue for me. It seems that your explanation would make a woman hopeless in securing her God given rights.

To the contrary, loving others includes helping women. That is why many Christians help women in distress. Many hospitals, schools, and charitable organizations were/are started by Christians who strive to help both men and women with better living conditions. Florence Nightingale, for example, was a remarkable lady who followed Christ's example of caring for those needing healing.

Also, Christian women have been greatly used by God to help rescue people, both men and women from slavery in the West. For example, Elizabeth Heyrick in the UK and Angelina Grimke in the USA were instrumental in the abolition movement. Why? Their Christian beliefs motivated them, out of a heart of compassion which echoes Jesus' teachings! Thousands of Christian women around the world boldly help others and stand up for peoples' rights, both men and women!

So, you do not realize I suppose how powerful Christ's teachings and Christianity makes women. Women are not merely poor little darlings whose rights need to be protected, but rather are bold protectors and rescuers along with men, helping both men and women!

She is put in a position of waiting and simply hoping that her husband's attitudes will undergo improvement based on her prayers and his, supposed, desire to change. With so much emphasis on God establishing the justice, one can then question "Why did God not establish it in the first place, since I have no control on it anyway?".

I am a Christian married lady. I am not in the position of the above. Rather, my husband considers me his equal, though he is the authority figure of the home. We talk to each other and communicate well together. This is God's ideal. My husband takes into consideration what I say and agrees with me for the most part. I agree with him for the most part. If I do not like something, you can be assured that I tell him. :) He tells me if he doesn't like something too. We are one flesh, as Jesus stated (Matthew 19:4-6), quoting from Genesis 1 and 2. We are a team!

On the other hand, in my practice and understanding of Islam, people must work to uphold their covenant with God and establish his justice based on his divine knowledge and teachings. The process of establishing justice then becomes a test and spiritual growth for the individual. With such a Philosophy, humans take the active role of bringing about justice, with God's aid, rather than waiting for God's aid. The latter approach comes off as more empowering. It neither undermine's God's inherent strength nor does it degrade his top prized creations: humans.

In Christian beliefs, the covenant with God is a relationship through Jesus. We are God's servants, which is not degrading but rather beautiful, since God made us to love us and for us to love Him! A part of loving Him is obeying Him! We are to obey Him because we love Him, since that's how we show our love. This does not undermine God's inherent strength nor degrade us, his spiritual children.

Can you please go more in-depth into women's legal rights? In particular, in the case of a controlling, demanding, and jealous husband, how can a woman protected herself in marriage? If you know of authoritative books and articles on this matter, please share. I can then use them for future citations as well! :)

I am not a law student, but there are Christians who are law students and lawyers. Feel free to look into the following Christian sites that address women's legal rights. The sites below have writing with which you can cite and reference. Christians are supposed to help each other, to " Do to others as you would have them do to you." - Jesus words accounted in Luke 6:31

http://www.biblegate...e 6&version=NIV

Thousands of Christians, both men and women, help women with their legal rights in cases of abusive, non-loving husbands:

http://christiancare...nceshelter.html

http://www.genesissh...ge.aspx?pid=327

http://www.domesticviolencehelp.com/

http://www.goodsam-genesis.org/

http://www.jefferson...inics/ACTSI.cfm

http://ugm.convio.ne...=programs_women

There are many others.

If you would like to ask a Christian lawyer about Christian women (and all women's) rights, below are some Christian lawyers/law students: hopefully one or many will answer you!

http://www.therosela...om/lawyers.html

http://aclj.org/our-mission

http://www.law.yale....nfellowship.htm

http://www.law.harva...nts/orgs/hlscf/

http://studycenter.n...fellowship.html

It would be interesting to write and call them with your questions.

May peace be with you Christian Lady :)

Peace and God's blessings be with you too!

Edited by Christianlady

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i would have loved my wife

if i had one.

you can have faith that you will make it to heaven inshAllah, and start loving your houri wife from now already :) it's a trick on how to keep ourselves chaste, to always imagine that they see us and can get very upset when they see us misbehave with other women. to purify ourselves for that special someone. unseen, yet present.

Of course, i hope we all meet our eternal love soul mates in this life as well :) may Allah bring you your better half soon inshaAllah

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I believe God won't do for you what you can do for yourself. He may lead you in that direction, but God is certainly not our servant.

The abuse thing...brought to mind a story our friends told us one day while at their house.

John is a hard working, big ego, old school, non religious Ukrainian farmer married a good Canadian girl. He got drunk one night early in the marriage and knocked his wife Lynn around.

The next morning when John got up he walked into the kitchen where Lynn was frying eggs in a cast iron frying pan. As John walked by, Lynn picked up the pan, slid the eggs into the sink and pasted him with the pan on the back of the head leaving him out cold on the kitchen floor. A few minutes later when he came to, totally bewildered and still spinning he managed to crawl himself up to the sink where he saw the eggs laying there. Lynn asked him how he liked his eggs. Before he could really answer she told him that's how he'd find his breakfast every time he knocked her around, drunk or not, no excuse. John hasn't hit her since.

It may have been more impulse than divine guidance, but it sure was funny when Lynn told us. John wasn't overly happy about her telling us the story but you can tell he's proud of choosing a wife that can stand up to him. Then again, Lynn showed me how to toss a hay bail onto a wagon already stacked 6 layers high.

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Also, Christian women have been greatly used by God to help rescue people, both men and women from slavery in the West. For example, Elizabeth Heyrick in the UK and Angelina Grimke in the USA were instrumental in the abolition movement. Why? Their Christian beliefs motivated them, out of a heart of compassion which echoes Jesus' teachings!

....

I am not a law student, but there are Christians who are law students and lawyers. Feel free to look into the following Christian sites that address women's legal rights.

Hi Christian Lady,

Thank you for sharing those videos. I admit that I need to put aside time and dig into Christianity first. Hopefully time permits someday.

After thinking through your posts, the same question ultimately arises:

  • What concrete rights does a Christian wife have?

Unfortunately, I still do not understand the concrete rights of a woman in Christianity, in particular, in marriage. To better understand what I mean, here are the bullet points I mentioned regarding Islam earlier on (these are a small subset):

  • Women are given sexual rights - e.g. if the husband does not have sex with his wife, the woman can get a divorce
  • Women are given family rights
    • She can be paid to suckle her child
    • She has independent property and does not have to share it with her husband
    • She can request divorce rights in the original marriage contract

In the points I gave, it becomes easy to understand what must be protected, and how they can become law. In your points, I cannot understand what actionable items and legal rulings it translates into. To help me better understand, can you please provide an initial answer to the following via Christian rulings?

  • What can a Christian wife do, if her husband does not listen to her?
  • What can a Christian wife do, if her husband does not have sex with her?
  • Can a Christian wife hold independent property (i.e. her husband has no voice on it)?
  • When can a Christian wife disobey, and go against the word of her husband?
  • Can a Christian wife get a divorce?

At a high-level, we agree, and the approach is similar to Islam's (e.g. put faith in God, work towards God, work together, reduce misery). It is the low-level details that I am confused on and need clear explanations.

Sorry for the long delay! It easily slips the mind to reply :)

Thanks,

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Hello Payam

As i read the NT christian wifes have the same rights and duties as christian men in marriage. I am not a catholic but I believe that the catholic church like my Lutheran teach that men and women are equal. There are differences thou, the catholic church teaching that divorce is not possible. The couple can separate if one part demands so, but their marriage is not cancelled in heaven and they therefore can not remarry in a catholic church. Many lutheran churched accept divorces and remarrying. Also many Lutheran churches accept female priests. On this matter the catholic church is totally conservative

Does the Quran say that women can not be priests or imams?

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Christians interpret the Bible different concerning this, but a couple that believes that divorcing would mean breaking the law of God would have to stay married if they did not wish to violate this. Living separately could be a solution.

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