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goharjanjua

Rewards For The Great "al-faruq" . .

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Dont ever bring up my father in this do you understand you ugly kalb. Its any argumeent between me and you, your mum doesnt need to get involved do you understand.

I dont care about omar nor do I care about who you support.All you do is bla bla bla.

And why do you leave so much gaps. Omar is not a lion he was a dog just like your face. Dont even compare Imam Ali (as) to that hmar.

Talk like a profisstional and dont ever bring in family because things can get ever mess.

Ooooooh u scary lil cat touched the wrong nerve have we?

I didnt mean to insult you by it but..........you aint got any PROOFS!

If you dont care about umar ra then why are you BUTTING IN?

Do u like to provoke? And when you get it back you bite!

You aint much a professional yourself either, if you dont like it dont read

Hypocrite

Mate ur already a mess how worse can it get you aint NOTHING nor will you ever be

Keep happy in your fairytale dream world wher a dawg like u loves it

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well why dont you use same father/grandfather logic on ahlebait ra too cos they was also there!

I guess its only hate, hate expressed from made up fairytales of the door etc.

A narration attributed to Ibn 'Abbas reports:

" When Allah's Apostle was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise." " "

Umar ra said 'the prophet is ill quran is sufficient for us'

How is that disobedience?

'the people in the house QUARRELLED AND DIFFERED'

'when the people CAUSED HUE AND A CRY the prophet sallalahu alihe wasalam ORDERED THEM OUT'

ALL of them not some but all!

Again you are using your hate to say umar ra raised his voice

Even if u read the end part of hadith hazrath abbas ra's own words

'because of THEIR disagreement and noise'

NOT UMAR ALFARUKH RA'S ,they were all quarelling!

Dont be biased be fair

Use your aql without PREJUDICE!

As for your analogy with shaitaan lol now that is just pathetic

Allah swt BANISHED shaitaan from His swt's kingdom FOREVER

Al farukh ra stayed 4 days after with prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam and became khalifa and spread islam far and wide and ruled according to sharia

Where as shaitaan...........got banished never ruled forever damned

Again try using aql!!

NO HE SALLALAHU ALAIHEWASALAM DIDNT!

IF HE DID THEN SHOW US THE PROOFS!

Hazrath Umar (ra) said " The Prophet [pbuh] is ill, Qur'an is sufficient for us ". First of all this is direct and absolute disobedience of the Prophet [pbuh] and here are the reasons for any noble person to understand but first lets take a look at Hazrath Umar's (ra) statement, the first part of the statement " The Prophet [pbuh] is ill ", what does Hazrath Umar (ra) mean here??? Was he so concerned about the Prophet's [pbuh] health, that he didn't want him to move around??? The Prophet [pbuh] wasn't preparing for war and was going to take part in it, where Hazrath Umar (ra) was so concerned about the Prophet's [pbuh] welfare regarding his health. Did Hazrath Umar (ra) think that the Prophet [pbuh] was too ill, so therefore he didn't have a clue what he was talking about and might write something, which isn't appropriate because of ill health???

A normal human being is advised not to sign any important papers or write any important document, when under severe illness and when taking medication that causes drowsiness. May be Hazrath Umar (ra) took the Messenger [pbuh] as a normal individual, just like you and me???. May be Hazrath Umar (ra) was more knowledgeable and understanding than the Prophet [pbuh], since he knew that the Qur'an was sufficient and there was no need for anything else and the Prophet [pbuh] couldn't figure a simple thing as this out??? Or may be Hazrath Umar (ra) was worried, that if the Prophet [pbuh] was aloud to write out this document, with everybodies backing and support, then that would leave no chance for any mischief to be carried out on self desired planning, such as the meeting in Sakeefa???

The second part of the statement " Qur'an is sufficient enough ", really??? Is that what Islam is all about??? Is that all we need??? Does Sunnah have no or just little meaning??? The Qur'an is Allah's voice and isn't the Sunnah the Prophet's [pbuh] verbal and practical voice??? O people of faith, note this that if you are Ahle Sunnah, then you categorise the Prophet's [pbuh] Sunnah by labelling, what is an absolute and must part of religion and faith and what isn't. You basically divide everything the Prophet [pbuh] said and did into two parts: 1, Those bits and pieces, which you consider to be articles and part of faith. 2, Those bits and pieces that you do not consider to be articles and part of faith. The Ahle Tashee on the other hand, consider EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING that the Prophet [pbuh] ever said and did, as an absolute and must article and part of faith. So people, the decision is yours. Go by what seems the best belief!

What was really the reason for Hazrath Umar's (ra) fuss??? What was the objection really about, when Allah has clearly said " Ateeur-Rasool " meaning obey the Prophet! Instead of obeying, we have such a loyal and faithful companion [sahabi] creating a fuss through objection and putting his ridiculous advice forward, to Allah's most top advisor. It's obvious that people present started quarrelling, because Hazrath Umar (ra) cicked started it off. What was the nature of this quarrel??? Hazrath Umar (ra) ofcourse! Why look for excuses and start blaming others. You don't have anybody elses ridiculous satement. Hazrath Umar is raising an objection and trying his best to put the Prophet [pbuh] off his will, wish and desire in the best interest of the Ummah and this isn't the first time this so called loyal companion, went against the Prophet [pbuh] WHY??? Hidden agenda and desires, what else!

The people present quarrelled with Hazrath Umar (ra) regarding his objection but didn't differ amongst themselves, this is nonsense! How can the Ahlul Baith differ with the Prophet [pbuh] or advise him the opposite. He wasn't asking for tea and you advised coffee, for Gods sake, the word ASTRAY has been used " So you will not go astray ". In other words Hazrath Umar (ra) was right, that the Qur'an was sufficient enough and since he was successful in advising the Prophet [pbuh] the opposite, then the Ummah hasn't gone astray, so that means the Prophet [pbuh] got it wrong or did Hazrath Umar (ra) get it wrong and screw it all up by creating a fuss and starting a dispute and today the Prophet [pbuh] is right, that the Ummah has gone astray by being extremely divided over almost everything???

Ok, the Prophet [pbuh] ordered everybody out, so lets move on since, that is what you like to do, now tell me was Hazrath Umar (ra) right, that Qur'an was sufficient enough and nothing else was required and the Ummah has not gone astray or was the Prophet [pbuh] right and we have really lost out by not having that written document from the greatest of all times??? I'm being absolutely honest, just and fair but all your doing is disregarding reality and facts, even undermining the glorious Prophet [pbuh] by just favouring one man and protecting this one man to the best of your ability.

My analogy about Satan is regarding what you said, either you look at the arguement and its validity or you look at the one you are arguing with and their status. If you look at Satan's arguement by your analysis, then Satan also has a valid arguement according to you and by your ideology. Why should Satan bow, with his status, to someone who was created from scratch and had made no effort considering achievement and was given a status just out of the blue, with no sweat and effort what so ever??? So according to your ideology, should we look at this valid arguement or should we look at the status and personality of who Satan put up an arguement with??? Why was Satan banished??? What was his crime??? For putting up a valid arguement??? Satan was banished but the people quarrelling were also thrown out! They were told to get lost! Who was told to get lost??? Another valid question, which you seem too afraid to answer anyway!

Spread Islam far and wide??? What happened to such spread Islam??? Why did such Islam banish from Europe??? And look at the state of the Ummah nowa days. Fitnah started to spread like wildfire as soon as they cicked off their own agenda all the way upto Karbalaa and beyond. We have the Shaikhain to thank for all this mess, since they took charge against the Prophet's [pbuh] instructions and orders and forced the rightful to live a life of tolerance and patience. Sometimes I wonder if the rightful did draw the sword, then one thing would have been sure, that at least we wouldn't be sitting here and arguing!

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Hazrath Umar (ra) said " The Prophet [pbuh] is ill, Qur'an is sufficient for us ". First of all this is direct and absolute disobedience of the Prophet [pbuh] and here are the reasons for any noble person to understand but first lets take a look at Hazrath Umar's (ra) statement, the first part of the statement " The Prophet [pbuh] is ill ", what does Hazrath Umar (ra) mean here??? Was he so concerned about the Prophet's [pbuh] health, that he didn't want him to move around??? The Prophet [pbuh] wasn't preparing for war and was going to take part in it, where Hazrath Umar (ra) was so concerned about the Prophet's [pbuh] welfare regarding his health. Did Hazrath Umar (ra) think that the Prophet [pbuh] was too ill, so therefore he didn't have a clue what he was talking about and might write something, which isn't appropriate because of ill health???

A normal human being is advised not to sign any important papers or write any important document, when under severe illness and when taking medication that causes drowsiness. May be Hazrath Umar (ra) took the Messenger [pbuh] as a normal individual, just like you and me???. May be Hazrath Umar (ra) was more knowledgeable and understanding than the Prophet [pbuh], since he knew that the Qur'an was sufficient and there was no need for anything else and the Prophet [pbuh] couldn't figure a simple thing as this out??? Or may be Hazrath Umar (ra) was worried, that if the Prophet [pbuh] was aloud to write out this document, with everybodies backing and support, then that would leave no chance for any mischief to be carried out on self desired planning, such as the meeting in Sakeefa???

The second part of the statement " Qur'an is sufficient enough ", really??? Is that what Islam is all about??? Is that all we need??? Does Sunnah have no or just little meaning??? The Qur'an is Allah's voice and isn't the Sunnah the Prophet's [pbuh] verbal and practical voice??? O people of faith, note this that if you are Ahle Sunnah, then you categorise the Prophet's [pbuh] Sunnah by labelling, what is an absolute and must part of religion and faith and what isn't. You basically divide everything the Prophet [pbuh] said and did into two parts: 1, Those bits and pieces, which you consider to be articles and part of faith. 2, Those bits and pieces that you do not consider to be articles and part of faith. The Ahle Tashee on the other hand, consider EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING that the Prophet [pbuh] ever said and did, as an absolute and must article and part of faith. So people, the decision is yours. Go by what seems the best belief!

What was really the reason for Hazrath Umar's (ra) fuss??? What was the objection really about, when Allah has clearly said " Ateeur-Rasool " meaning obey the Prophet! Instead of obeying, we have such a loyal and faithful companion [sahabi] creating a fuss through objection and putting his ridiculous advice forward, to Allah's most top advisor. It's obvious that people present started quarrelling, because Hazrath Umar (ra) cicked started it off. What was the nature of this quarrel??? Hazrath Umar (ra) ofcourse! Why look for excuses and start blaming others. You don't have anybody elses ridiculous satement. Hazrath Umar is raising an objection and trying his best to put the Prophet [pbuh] off his will, wish and desire in the best interest of the Ummah and this isn't the first time this so called loyal companion, went against the Prophet [pbuh] WHY??? Hidden agenda and desires, what else!

The people present quarrelled with Hazrath Umar (ra) regarding his objection but didn't differ amongst themselves, this is nonsense! How can the Ahlul Baith differ with the Prophet [pbuh] or advise him the opposite. He wasn't asking for tea and you advised coffee, for Gods sake, the word ASTRAY has been used " So you will not go astray ". In other words Hazrath Umar (ra) was right, that the Qur'an was sufficient enough and since he was successful in advising the Prophet [pbuh] the opposite, then the Ummah hasn't gone astray, so that means the Prophet [pbuh] got it wrong or did Hazrath Umar (ra) get it wrong and screw it all up by creating a fuss and starting a dispute and today the Prophet [pbuh] is right, that the Ummah has gone astray by being extremely divided over almost everything???

Ok, the Prophet [pbuh] ordered everybody out, so lets move on since, that is what you like to do, now tell me was Hazrath Umar (ra) right, that Qur'an was sufficient enough and nothing else was required and the Ummah has not gone astray or was the Prophet [pbuh] right and we have really lost out by not having that written document from the greatest of all times??? I'm being absolutely honest, just and fair but all your doing is disregarding reality and facts, even undermining the glorious Prophet [pbuh] by just favouring one man and protecting this one man to the best of your ability.

My analogy about Satan is regarding what you said, either you look at the arguement and its validity or you look at the one you are arguing with and their status. If you look at Satan's arguement by your analysis, then Satan also has a valid arguement according to you and by your ideology. Why should Satan bow, with his status, to someone who was created from scratch and had made no effort considering achievement and was given a status just out of the blue, with no sweat and effort what so ever??? So according to your ideology, should we look at this valid arguement or should we look at the status and personality of who Satan put up an arguement with??? Why was Satan banished??? What was his crime??? For putting up a valid arguement??? Satan was banished but the people quarrelling were also thrown out! They were told to get lost! Who was told to get lost??? Another valid question, which you seem too afraid to answer anyway!

Spread Islam far and wide??? What happened to such spread Islam??? Why did such Islam banish from Europe??? And look at the state of the Ummah nowa days. Fitnah started to spread like wildfire as soon as they cicked off their own agenda all the way upto Karbalaa and beyond. We have the Shaikhain to thank for all this mess, since they took charge against the Prophet's [pbuh] instructions and orders and forced the rightful to live a life of tolerance and patience. Sometimes I wonder if the rightful did draw the sword, then one thing would have been sure, that at least we wouldn't be sitting here and arguing!

You should just write a book honestly i just wasted my time AGAIN going through your assumptions of what ifs and what nots too many accusations and no proofs just hot air

You aint very convincing in your arguments at all

Paragraph1and2)

Waste of time its your own opinions and your own assumptions to correlate with your aqaid, plain and simple

Paragraph3)

I aint go a clue what your going on about here you seem confused, we do follow sunnah but not blindly like yourselfs

Paragraph4)

Again hadith doesnt say or mean as you would like it, i will post you from nahjal balagha where Ali ra's own son says ameerul maumineen is not in his senses

When the Amir al-Mu’mineen (Ali) was wounded, people turned aside from him. He (Ali) was spattered all over with blood and he had not offered his morning prayers (yet). He was told: “Prayer, O Amir al-Mu’mineen!”

He (Ali) raised his head and said: “A person who missed his prayer has no share in Islam!” Then he stood up with a jerk and blood gushed out of the wound. He said: “Give me a piece of cloth.” He wrapped it around the wound, offered his prayer and remembered Allah; then he spoke to his son Abdullah: “O Abdullah, rub my cheek on the ground.”

Abdullah says:

“I did not do that.I THOUGHT HE HAD LOST HIS SENSES! He (Ali) repeated the same thing: ‘My son, rub my cheek on the ground.’ I did not do it again. He (Ali) repeated himself the third time, (saying): ‘Why don’t you rub my cheek on the ground?’ Now I could see that he was in his senses. He himself could not do it out of pain and weakness. I touched his cheek to the ground. I saw the outer hairs of his beard; they were clogged with dust. He cried until the dust gummed onto his eyes.”

(Sharh Nahjul Balagha, by Ibn abi al-Hadid)

He has lost his senses? His own son is saying to father, remember your own analogy mr ameen? About father and son what you wrote?

A son must obey father!!!!!!

Remember?

Does it work here?or is it double standards?

Again!

Paragraph5)

Why cannot they differ? They are only humans, you tell me, we believe He sallalahu alihewasalam accomplished His mission and was successful and He had 4 days to convey message if it was that important but, it wasnt that important and the deen was complete anyway

Paragraph6)

Well what was it that was to be written?

Paragraph7)

Again shot yourself in foot so in your mind shaitaan got told to get out and so did sahaba ra thats the comparison to you..........then ahlebait ra were included to get out too!

What now if not contradiction?

I am only being fair and just in my analysis

Paragraph8)

Ok in your analysis the prophet sallalahu alaihewasalm has (nauzobillah) failed why because your looking at state of muslims today how the sahaba ra took power etc etc

And yet you dont know what it is that was to be written?

Utter rubbish thats what your post is NO PROOFS OR EVIDENCES just assumptions

Your whole post is just hot air

I ask you one thing bring me proof of what it was that was to be WRITTEN!!

And all ur doing is comparing and coming up with ur own ideas

We believe as sunnis the prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam has told us already

He sallalahu alaihewasalam said

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 393:

Narrated Said bin Jubair that he heard Ibn Abbas saying:

“Turn out all the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, show respect to all foreign delegates by giving them gifts as I used to do.” (The sub-narrator added, “The third order was something beneficial which either Ibn Abbas did not mention or he mentioned but I forgot.”)

To us sunnis i repeat prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam FULFILLED His mission as is mentioned in quran He sallalahu alaihewasalam was SUCCESSFUL, ISLAM WAS A SUCCES OPEN YOUR EYES THERE ARE 1.6 BILLION MUSLIMS IN THE WORLD!!!!!

SECOND LARGEST RELIGION AND STILL GROWING SUBHANALLAH!!

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oh..... ok i see now so He sallalahu alaihewasalam was talking to OUTSIDERS and not INSIDERS when He salalahu alaihe wasalam said get out so......... where does it say exactly that in the hadith you so kindly posted and highlighted?

Thats simple, in such a situation . . . when housemates and outsiders fight/differ/quarrel , people of the house are not told to get out, only those who were not from the house at that time !!

i will go by your own standard quran =hadith=history

there is NO history its just your ASSUMPTIONS =history

Mr, most of the history present today is based on and is supported by hadith and Quran.

there is no hadith for you cos you are using OURS

using your source is the only way to make you understand . . .

.

.

Coming back to the Real topic,

As it is established by the Sahih Hadith, that Umar refused the Prophet's (pbuh) order, WHICH caused disagreement and noise , and the Prophet (pbuh) became angry .

Keeping the following verses in mind,

1-'Whatever the Prophet gives you accept it, and whatever he forbids you refrain from it.' Surah Hashr Aayah 7

2-'Whoever obeys the Prophet obeys Allah.' Surah An-Nisa Ayah 80

Q: Was Umar right or not?

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You should just write a book honestly i just wasted my time AGAIN going through your assumptions of what ifs and what nots too many accusations and no proofs just hot air

You aint very convincing in your arguments at all

Paragraph1and2)

Waste of time its your own opinions and your own assumptions to correlate with your aqaid, plain and simple

Paragraph3)

I aint go a clue what your going on about here you seem confused, we do follow sunnah but not blindly like yourselfs

Paragraph4)

Again hadith doesnt say or mean as you would like it, i will post you from nahjal balagha where Ali ra's own son says ameerul maumineen is not in his senses

When the Amir al-Mu'mineen (Ali) was wounded, people turned aside from him. He (Ali) was spattered all over with blood and he had not offered his morning prayers (yet). He was told: "Prayer, O Amir al-Mu'mineen!"

He (Ali) raised his head and said: "A person who missed his prayer has no share in Islam!" Then he stood up with a jerk and blood gushed out of the wound. He said: "Give me a piece of cloth." He wrapped it around the wound, offered his prayer and remembered Allah; then he spoke to his son Abdullah: "O Abdullah, rub my cheek on the ground."

Abdullah says:

"I did not do that.I THOUGHT HE HAD LOST HIS SENSES! He (Ali) repeated the same thing: 'My son, rub my cheek on the ground.' I did not do it again. He (Ali) repeated himself the third time, (saying): 'Why don't you rub my cheek on the ground?' Now I could see that he was in his senses. He himself could not do it out of pain and weakness. I touched his cheek to the ground. I saw the outer hairs of his beard; they were clogged with dust. He cried until the dust gummed onto his eyes."

(Sharh Nahjul Balagha, by Ibn abi al-Hadid)

He has lost his senses? His own son is saying to father, remember your own analogy mr ameen? About father and son what you wrote?

A son must obey father!!!!!!

Remember?

Does it work here?or is it double standards?

Again!

Paragraph5)

Why cannot they differ? They are only humans, you tell me, we believe He sallalahu alihewasalam accomplished His mission and was successful and He had 4 days to convey message if it was that important but, it wasnt that important and the deen was complete anyway

Paragraph6)

Well what was it that was to be written?

Paragraph7)

Again shot yourself in foot so in your mind shaitaan got told to get out and so did sahaba ra thats the comparison to you..........then ahlebait ra were included to get out too!

What now if not contradiction?

I am only being fair and just in my analysis

Paragraph8)

Ok in your analysis the prophet sallalahu alaihewasalm has (nauzobillah) failed why because your looking at state of muslims today how the sahaba ra took power etc etc

And yet you dont know what it is that was to be written?

Utter rubbish thats what your post is NO PROOFS OR EVIDENCES just assumptions

Your whole post is just hot air

I ask you one thing bring me proof of what it was that was to be WRITTEN!!

And all ur doing is comparing and coming up with ur own ideas

We believe as sunnis the prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam has told us already

He sallalahu alaihewasalam said

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 393:

Narrated Said bin Jubair that he heard Ibn Abbas saying:

"Turn out all the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, show respect to all foreign delegates by giving them gifts as I used to do." (The sub-narrator added, "The third order was something beneficial which either Ibn Abbas did not mention or he mentioned but I forgot.")

To us sunnis i repeat prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam FULFILLED His mission as is mentioned in quran He sallalahu alaihewasalam was SUCCESSFUL, ISLAM WAS A SUCCES OPEN YOUR EYES THERE ARE 1.6 BILLION MUSLIMS IN THE WORLD!!!!!

SECOND LARGEST RELIGION AND STILL GROWING SUBHANALLAH!!

Thank you very much for this compliment, that you think I am capable of writing a book. I'm not here to try and convince your kind, since this is almost impossible. One can't convince the arrogant and ignorant, neither can one convince the narrow minded and tight hearted, nor can one convince those who consider protecting and defending at all costs. I'm here so that yourkind do not succeed in poisoning the average and common mind. I'm here so the people can get a fair deal by looking at things through a different perspective.

No proof or evidence???? What's more important than having the ability to think with sense and logic??? The Prophet [pbuh] wants to right a document for the welfare of the Ummah, so that his nation doesn't go astray but the beloved companion throws a spanner in the works by objecting. What's difficult to understand here??? If the Qur'an was sufficient, then why was the Prophet [pbuh] so concerned??? What was the need of this document??? This means despite having the Qur'an, there is a definate possibility, that the Ummah can go astray. What's so difficult for you to understand here??? I'm not convincing??? You've wasted your time??? I'm all hot air??? Sunshine, you are a real DRAMA QUEEN! And I don't blame you since that's the best you can do. You're not the discussing and debating type. You lack in knowledge and information, never mind about just Islam but your own sect as well, what ever that is!

You do follow the Sunnah but not blindly like me??? Ok! Let me ask you again then, do you consider everything that the Prophet [pbuh] said and did as absolute part of faith or do you categorise what the Prophet [pbuh] said and did, in such a manner that certain bits and pieces are absolute part of faith and certain aren't??? So what part of the Sunnah is article of faith and what isn't??? Tell me sunshine, how exactly do you follow the Sunnah??? Come on DRAMA QUEEN, answer my questions and stop playing around. 1.6, billion Muslims in the world hey??? Vast majority [72 sects] are hellbound, since they deviated from the Prophet's [pbuh] Sunnah and since some people were not interested in the Prophet's [pbuh] document, then the Ummah has gone astray. Prophet's [pbuh] words sunshine, not mine. So there is not much to be proud of is there???

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^ so we may conclude that Prophet (pbuh) wanted to write a document but Umar (ra) stopped him. So Prophet failed to deliver his message right? Astagfirullah!!

on a side note why would prophet (pbuh) listen to a kafir munafiq? (that's the title shia gives to Umar). Kuffar of maakah with all their power stopped Prophet (pbuh) frm spreading islam but he didn't listen to them but later on a revert from amongst those kuffars stopped prophet from writing a will and he didn't wirte it :lol:

Edited by umair24

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^ so we may conclude that Prophet (pbuh) wanted to write a document but Umar (ra) stopped him. So Prophet failed to deliver his message right? Astagfirullah!!

Astaghfirullah !!! You people are so insane as to just prove the Shia wrong, you even dont care if blaspheming against Prophet (pbuh) .....

He delivered his message of ISLAM ... Completely, but YOU have failed to Follow that message....

on a side note why would prophet (pbuh) listen to a kafir munafiq? (that's the title shia gives to Umar). Kuffar of maakah with all their power stopped Prophet (pbuh) frm spreading islam but he didn't listen to them but later on a revert from amongst those kuffars stopped prophet from writing a will and he didn't wirte it :lol:

don't mess up things . . its a simple question

was umar RIGHT in refusing the Prophet's (pbuh) order?

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Astaghfirullah !!! You people are so insane as to just prove the Shia wrong, you even dont care if blaspheming against Prophet (pbuh) .....

He delivered his message of ISLAM ... Completely, but YOU have failed to Follow that message....

don't mess up things . . its a simple question

was umar RIGHT in refusing the Prophet's (pbuh) order?

lol now i m blashpeming against (pbuh)...It is you who say Muhammad didn't write a will because umar prevented him..It is not my belief :(

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lol now i m blashpeming against (pbuh)...It is you who say Muhammad didn't write a will because umar prevented him..It is not my belief :(

As I asked earlier . .

don't mess up things . . its a simple question

was umar RIGHT in refusing the Prophet's (pbuh) order?

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^it is u messing things up...the more valid question is

Did Muhammad (pbuh) refused to write a will for whole ummah after the behaviour of an individual Umar?

So your question is invalid, because whatever the Prophet (pbuh) was about to write was REFUSED AT by umar . .. .

the hadiths are not about WHAT the Prophet (pbuh) was going to write... they are about HOW he was REFUSED by SOME- led by the great lord of sunni's mr Umar "al-farooq"

you know why he is reffered to as "al-Farooq" because he set a Diferentiating line between the Good and the Bad by merely Refusing and Insulting the Rank of Prophethood at several times...

So, go on and keep praising that illiterate arab who had no respect for Allah (subhanahu), Mohammad (pbuh) , Ahlebyt (as) and the lovers of Mohammad (pbuh) and his Progeny (as) ..

and As I asked earlier . .

don't mess up things . . its a simple question

was umar RIGHT in refusing the Prophet's (pbuh) order?

Edited by mraslambaig

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^agian from ur logic one may conclude that Umar stopped prophet to write a will and prophet didn't write...don't twist the question please by bringing other issues of umar...its simple "prophet wanted to write a will but umar stopped him, thus he coudln't write a will" This aqedah can only b of shia like u that prophet would not convey his message because he was intervened by an individual :wacko:

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^agian from ur logic one may conclude that Umar stopped prophet to write a will and prophet didn't write...don't twist the question please by bringing other issues of umar...its simple "prophet wanted to write a will but umar stopped him, thus he coudln't write a will" This aqedah can only b of shia like u that prophet would not convey his message because he was intervened by an individual :wacko:

lets ask you again, in simple words...

was that "intervening of an individual" RIGHT ?

Edited by mraslambaig

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Rasoulallah (pbuh) wanted to write down his Wassiyat (will) so that it would be plain and available to all Muslims. Umar refused the order. So all that means is that Umar and those who follow him will not get the benefit of this Wassiyat and thus will not be guided to the complete truth. Umar did not stop the Prophet (pbuh) from carrying out his Wassiyat and it was carried out by Imam Ali (as) . So anyone who follows Imam Ali (as) will get the benefit of the Wassiyat of the Prophet (pbuh) and those who follow Umar will not. Simple, and your right, Umar did not stop the Prophet from carrying out his Wassiyat, the only thing he did was to stop a large group of Muslims from getting the benefit of it.

Edited by Abu Hadi

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^ so we may conclude that Prophet (pbuh) wanted to write a document but Umar (ra) stopped him. So Prophet failed to deliver his message right? Astagfirullah!!

on a side note why would prophet (pbuh) listen to a kafir munafiq? (that's the title shia gives to Umar). Kuffar of maakah with all their power stopped Prophet (pbuh) frm spreading islam but he didn't listen to them but later on a revert from amongst those kuffars stopped prophet from writing a will and he didn't wirte it :lol:

So we may conclude??? I just don't understand, where your conclusions come from. Who said Hazrath Umar (ra) stopped him??? The Prophet [pbuh] failed to deliver his message??? wow! Some conclusions you've got coming out here buddy. Ok! Lets plat it your way. The Prophet [pbuh] wanted to write a document/will, do we agree this far??? Why did he want to write a document/will??? Because he believed the Ummah would go astray, do we agree this far??? Now who was the Ummah at that time??? The Companions, Ahlul baith, wives, other relations etc. So the Prophet believed his companions would go astray, meaning they would start to quarrel with one another and the Ahlul Baith. Hazrath Umar (ra) raised objection, do we agree to this??? No body elses name as been mentioned in raising objection. So the conclusion, which you are so afraid to come out with, is that the Prophet [pbuh] made a decision but Hazrath Umar (ra) objected. Now to save Hazrath Umar's (ra)reputation, we are willing to raise suspicion and cast doubt on the Ahlu baith and even go further in staining the Prophet's [pbuh] reputation. WOW! Some important Sahabi we have here! Tarnishing the reputation of a saint [Masoon] ,the Prophet [pbuh], just to protect a non saint [Gher-e-Masoom], Sahabi. Wow, what a way to go!

The Prophet [pbuh] wanted to write a document for the people who he is leaving behind and the grand Sahabi and his band object and raise doubts, so what do you expect the Prophet [pbuh] to do??? Give them something for their benefit by force??? What do you expect the Prophet [pbuh] to do??? Shuv it down their throat at all costs??? It's their gain at it's their loss! If they're not interested because they think they know better and they have other things on their mind and they have their own plans, then good look to them. Tell me, what is so bloody difficult to understand here??? There is nothing difficult to understand, is just a matter of saving the reputation of the screwed and damned.

Edited by Ameen

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Ameen

Thank you very much for this compliment, that you think I am capable of writing a book. I'm not here to try and convince your kind, since this is almost impossible. One can't convince the arrogant and ignorant, neither can one convince the narrow minded and tight hearted, nor can one convince those who consider protecting and defending at all costs. I'm here so that yourkind do not succeed in poisoning the average and common mind. I'm here so the people can get a fair deal by looking at things through a different perspective.

No proof or evidence???? What's more important than having the ability to think with sense and logic??? The Prophet [pbuh] wants to right a document for the welfare of the Ummah, so that his nation doesn't go astray but the beloved companion throws a spanner in the works by objecting. What's difficult to understand here??? If the Qur'an was sufficient, then why was the Prophet [pbuh] so concerned??? What was the need of this document??? This means despite having the Qur'an, there is a definate possibility, that the Ummah can go astray. What's so difficult for you to understand here??? I'm not convincing??? You've wasted your time??? I'm all hot air??? Sunshine, you are a real DRAMA QUEEN! And I don't blame you since that's the best you can do. You're not the discussing and debating type. You lack in knowledge and information, never mind about just Islam but your own sect as well, what ever that is!

You do follow the Sunnah but not blindly like me??? Ok! Let me ask you again then, do you consider everything that the Prophet [pbuh] said and did as absolute part of faith or do you categorise what the Prophet [pbuh] said and did, in such a manner that certain bits and pieces are absolute part of faith and certain aren't??? So what part of the Sunnah is article of faith and what isn't??? Tell me sunshine, how exactly do you follow the Sunnah??? Come on DRAMA QUEEN, answer my questions and stop playing around. 1.6, billion Muslims in the world hey??? Vast majority [72 sects] are hellbound, since they deviated from the Prophet's [pbuh] Sunnah and since some people were not interested in the Prophet's [pbuh] document, then the Ummah has gone astray. Prophet's [pbuh] words sunshine, not mine. So there is not much to be proud of is there???

Dont worry its no compliment i was just taking the mick!

If your not trying to CONVINCE.........then why are you writing long long posts?

As for poisoning remarks mate your the one implying through ur logic and understanding that prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam failed (nauzobillah)

Stop fooling yourself and others

As for knowledge well......you aint got NOTHING you just post gibberish and garbage and add your own understanding and logic to it devoid of evidences and proofs!

Again you are giving me YOUR understanding and adding YOUR own logic

You say;

Prophet salalalahu alaihewasalam wants to write so no one goes astray

An IMPORTANT will!

But failed in not implementing that will because of A MAN putting a spanner in there

( even though prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam fough wars for Allah swt and His swt's deen)

But one man stopped Him (nauzobillah)

Ok

Then what was it that was to be WRITTEN? (with proof)

You still havent give that answer

We sunnah say;

Prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam wants to write so none goes astray

But it wasnt IMPORTANT

Because we have QURAN to help us away from becoming stray!

And what is more wieghtier and mightier than the quran?

You see? Logic!!!

So in conclusion;

You think (nauzobillah):

Failure because last will wasnt implemented

We sunna think:

Mission accomplished  Allah swt's prophet was a GREAT SUCCESS

You believe mere men stopped prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam from preaching true message (nauzobillah) of islam

We believe these mere men were the best of friends with the prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam who helped the prophet saws in His mission

Conclusion

You think:

Failure

We think:

Success

You see ameen? Logic!!!

Islam is a succes thats why we are a billion strong the fastest growing religion in the world today and what do we follow?

AL QURAN

When new muslims revert they revert after reading..........what......?

AL QURAN

So quran IS SUFFICIENT especially now so Umar ra was right because to this day EVER MUSLIM has Quran as a guide to NOT GO ASTRAY

And your still crying over a will that NONE know what it was?

You see? Logic!!

You cannot give me what was it that was to be written so......

I will give you a hadith stating what prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam WANTED DONE AND WAS DONE!

Number 393: Narrated Said bin Jubair: that he heard Ibn 'Abbas saying, "Thursday! And you know not what Thursday is? After that Ibn 'Abbas wept till the stones on the ground were soaked with his tears. On that I asked Ibn 'Abbas, "What is (about) Thursday?" He said, "When the condition (i.e. health) of Allah's Apostle deteriorated, he said, 'Bring me a bone of scapula, so that I may write something for you after which you will never go astray.'The people differed in their opinions although it was improper to differ in front of a prophet, They said, 'What is wrong with him? Do you think he is delirious? Ask him (to understand). The Prophet replied, 'Leave me as I am in a better state than what you are asking me to do.' Then the Prophet ordered them to do three things saying, 'Turn out all the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, show respect to all foreign delegates by giving them gifts as I used to do.' " The sub-narrator added, "The third order was something beneficial which either Ibn 'Abbas did not mention or he mentioned but I forgot.'

Implementation of prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam's will according to sunna

1)

Turn out all pagans in arabia

Achieved mission accomplished

2)

Give foreign delegates gifts as prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam used to

Achieved mission accomplished

3)

You see it wasnt that IMPORTANT even hazrath Abbas ra either forgot or disnt mention it!

No contradictions from us we love all islam not just pick and choose!

Can you just stick to a topic ameen i have noticed when you hit a wall you come up with OTHER questions

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Dont worry its no compliment i was just taking the mick!

If your not trying to CONVINCE.........then why are you writing long long posts?

As for poisoning remarks mate your the one implying through ur logic and understanding that prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam failed (nauzobillah)

Stop fooling yourself and others

As for knowledge well......you aint got NOTHING you just post gibberish and garbage and add your own understanding and logic to it devoid of evidences and proofs!

Again you are giving me YOUR understanding and adding YOUR own logic

You say;

Prophet salalalahu alaihewasalam wants to write so no one goes astray

An IMPORTANT will!

But failed in not implementing that will because of A MAN putting a spanner in there

( even though prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam fough wars for Allah swt and His swt's deen)

But one man stopped Him (nauzobillah)

Ok

Then what was it that was to be WRITTEN? (with proof)

You still havent give that answer

We sunnah say;

Prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam wants to write so none goes astray

But it wasnt IMPORTANT

Because we have QURAN to help us away from becoming stray!

And what is more wieghtier and mightier than the quran?

You see? Logic!!!

So in conclusion;

You think (nauzobillah):

Failure because last will wasnt implemented

We sunna think:

Mission accomplished Allah swt's prophet was a GREAT SUCCESS

You believe mere men stopped prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam from preaching true message (nauzobillah) of islam

We believe these mere men were the best of friends with the prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam who helped the prophet saws in His mission

Conclusion

You think:

Failure

We think:

Success

You see ameen? Logic!!!

Islam is a succes thats why we are a billion strong the fastest growing religion in the world today and what do we follow?

AL QURAN

When new muslims revert they revert after reading..........what......?

AL QURAN

So quran IS SUFFICIENT especially now so Umar ra was right because to this day EVER MUSLIM has Quran as a guide to NOT GO ASTRAY

And your still crying over a will that NONE know what it was?

You see? Logic!!

You cannot give me what was it that was to be written so......

I will give you a hadith stating what prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam WANTED DONE AND WAS DONE!

Number 393: Narrated Said bin Jubair: that he heard Ibn 'Abbas saying, "Thursday! And you know not what Thursday is? After that Ibn 'Abbas wept till the stones on the ground were soaked with his tears. On that I asked Ibn 'Abbas, "What is (about) Thursday?" He said, "When the condition (i.e. health) of Allah's Apostle deteriorated, he said, 'Bring me a bone of scapula, so that I may write something for you after which you will never go astray.'The people differed in their opinions although it was improper to differ in front of a prophet, They said, 'What is wrong with him? Do you think he is delirious? Ask him (to understand). The Prophet replied, 'Leave me as I am in a better state than what you are asking me to do.' Then the Prophet ordered them to do three things saying, 'Turn out all the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, show respect to all foreign delegates by giving them gifts as I used to do.' " The sub-narrator added, "The third order was something beneficial which either Ibn 'Abbas did not mention or he mentioned but I forgot.'

Implementation of prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam's will according to sunna

1)

Turn out all pagans in arabia

Achieved mission accomplished

2)

Give foreign delegates gifts as prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam used to

Achieved mission accomplished

3)

You see it wasnt that IMPORTANT even hazrath Abbas ra either forgot or disnt mention it!

No contradictions from us we love all islam not just pick and choose!

Can you just stick to a topic ameen i have noticed when you hit a wall you come up with OTHER questions

So that's your final verdict?

Edited by mraslambaig

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Ameen

Thank you very much for this compliment, that you think I am capable of writing a book. I'm not here to try and convince your kind, since this is almost impossible. One can't convince the arrogant and ignorant, neither can one convince the narrow minded and tight hearted, nor can one convince those who consider protecting and defending at all costs. I'm here so that yourkind do not succeed in poisoning the average and common mind. I'm here so the people can get a fair deal by looking at things through a different perspective.

No proof or evidence???? What's more important than having the ability to think with sense and logic??? The Prophet [pbuh] wants to right a document for the welfare of the Ummah, so that his nation doesn't go astray but the beloved companion throws a spanner in the works by objecting. What's difficult to understand here??? If the Qur'an was sufficient, then why was the Prophet [pbuh] so concerned??? What was the need of this document??? This means despite having the Qur'an, there is a definate possibility, that the Ummah can go astray. What's so difficult for you to understand here??? I'm not convincing??? You've wasted your time??? I'm all hot air??? Sunshine, you are a real DRAMA QUEEN! And I don't blame you since that's the best you can do. You're not the discussing and debating type. You lack in knowledge and information, never mind about just Islam but your own sect as well, what ever that is!

You do follow the Sunnah but not blindly like me??? Ok! Let me ask you again then, do you consider everything that the Prophet [pbuh] said and did as absolute part of faith or do you categorise what the Prophet [pbuh] said and did, in such a manner that certain bits and pieces are absolute part of faith and certain aren't??? So what part of the Sunnah is article of faith and what isn't??? Tell me sunshine, how exactly do you follow the Sunnah??? Come on DRAMA QUEEN, answer my questions and stop playing around. 1.6, billion Muslims in the world hey??? Vast majority [72 sects] are hellbound, since they deviated from the Prophet's [pbuh] Sunnah and since some people were not interested in the Prophet's [pbuh] document, then the Ummah has gone astray. Prophet's [pbuh] words sunshine, not mine. So there is not much to be proud of is there???

Dont worry its no compliment i was just taking the mick!

If your not trying to CONVINCE.........then why are you writing long long posts?

As for poisoning remarks mate your the one implying through ur logic and understanding that prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam failed (nauzobillah)

Stop fooling yourself and others

As for knowledge well......you aint got NOTHING you just post gibberish and garbage and add your own understanding and logic to it devoid of evidences and proofs!

Again you are giving me YOUR understanding and adding YOUR own logic

You say;

Prophet salalalahu alaihewasalam wants to write so no one goes astray

An IMPORTANT will!

But failed in not implementing that will because of A MAN putting a spanner in there

( even though prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam fough wars for Allah swt and His swt's deen)

But one man stopped Him (nauzobillah)

Ok

Then what was it that was to be WRITTEN? (with proof)

You still havent give that answer

We sunnah say;

Prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam wants to write so none goes astray

But it wasnt IMPORTANT

Because we have QURAN to help us away from becoming stray!

And what is more wieghtier and mightier than the quran?

You see? Logic!!!

So in conclusion;

You think (nauzobillah):

Failure because last will wasnt implemented

We sunna think:

Mission accomplished Allah swt's prophet was a GREAT SUCCESS

You believe mere men stopped prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam from preaching true message (nauzobillah) of islam

We believe these mere men were the best of friends with the prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam who helped the prophet saws in His mission

Conclusion

You think:

Failure

We think:

Success

You see ameen? Logic!!!

Islam is a succes thats why we are a billion strong the fastest growing religion in the world today and what do we follow?

AL QURAN

When new muslims revert they revert after reading..........what......?

AL QURAN

So quran IS SUFFICIENT especially now so Umar ra was right because to this day EVER MUSLIM has Quran as a guide to NOT GO ASTRAY

And your still crying over a will that NONE know what it was?

You see? Logic!!

You cannot give me what was it that was to be written so......

I will give you a hadith stating what prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam WANTED DONE AND WAS DONE!

Number 393: Narrated Said bin Jubair: that he heard Ibn 'Abbas saying, "Thursday! And you know not what Thursday is? After that Ibn 'Abbas wept till the stones on the ground were soaked with his tears. On that I asked Ibn 'Abbas, "What is (about) Thursday?" He said, "When the condition (i.e. health) of Allah's Apostle deteriorated, he said, 'Bring me a bone of scapula, so that I may write something for you after which you will never go astray.'The people differed in their opinions although it was improper to differ in front of a prophet, They said, 'What is wrong with him? Do you think he is delirious? Ask him (to understand). The Prophet replied, 'Leave me as I am in a better state than what you are asking me to do.' Then the Prophet ordered them to do three things saying, 'Turn out all the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, show respect to all foreign delegates by giving them gifts as I used to do.' " The sub-narrator added, "The third order was something beneficial which either Ibn 'Abbas did not mention or he mentioned but I forgot.'

Implementation of prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam's will according to sunna

1)

Turn out all pagans in arabia

Achieved mission accomplished

2)

Give foreign delegates gifts as prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam used to

Achieved mission accomplished

3)

You see it wasnt that IMPORTANT even hazrath Abbas ra either forgot or disnt mention it!

No contradictions from us we love all islam not just pick and choose!

Can you just stick to a topic ameen i have noticed when you hit a wall you come up with OTHER questions

You were just taking the mick??? I know mate! That's all you seem to be doing, along with accusing and abusing. That's all you're good at and that's what your posts evolve around. Why am I writing long posts??? To cover all the points you've made, so that the average/common mind can get a fair advantage of both sides. I never said " the Prophet [pbuh] failed ", this is your understanding and what you make of it. If you think that I add my own understanding and logic, then that is what it's all about. I've asked you about your opinion, thought and point of view about various things and you haven't responded. Probably you're too busy washing your hair or doing your make up! Let me give you an example: Imaam Abu Hanifa studied under Imaam Jaffar Al Sadiq (as), along with various other teachers, then he cicked off his own understanding and logic about things. The other Imaams [Malik, Shafi, Hambal] did the same, so I don't see you objecting here. You claim that they are all write in their own way. So what's the matter buddy??? We're discussing things, aren't we??? If this is my understanding, then what is yours??? Put it forward and let the people make up their own mind.

Let me say this again, what I said was that the Prophet [pbuh] asked for a pen and paper to be brought to him, WHY??? because he wanted to write a will for the people who he was leaving behind, WHY??? so they wouldn't go astray. Now do you accept this??? Do you reject this??? Do you believe this is exagurated or fabricated??? What is your point of view??? Rather than taking the mick, why don't you take a pick??? I didn't say anywhere that the Prophet [pbuh] failed. This is rubbish! It's a false accusation. What was to be written??? With proof??? I still haven't answered??? Since when did you ask me??? You're still busy in trying to defend Hazrat Umar (ra). Now you said " we Sunnah say that the Prophet [pbuh] wanted to write a document/will, so that no one goes astray ", Now you further on say " BUT IT WAS NOT IMPORTANT "??????? What??? Why wasn't it important??? Why did the Prophet [pbuh] want to write a document/will if it wasn't important??? The reason you have given for it [document/will] to be " not important " is because we have the Qur'an, which will prevent us from becoming astray. Ok! So you and Hazrath Umar (ra) knew this simple and straight forward fact but the Prophet [pbuh] didn't or just simply forgot about it???

What is more weightier and mightier than the Qur'an??? Again you knew this but the Prophet [pbuh] didn't???? You see, logic??? What??? And the Prophet [pbuh] lacked in it???? I didn't say that the Prophet [pbuh] failed neither did I say that the document/will wasn't written and implemented. These are your words, not mine. You think " mission acomplished, Prophet [pbuh] was a great success "??? So do I. I do not believe that men stopped the Prophet [pbuh] from anything, these are your words, not mine. I do not think " failure ", again your words, not mine. You think " success "??? Ok! Lets take a look at your success: The Prophet's [pbuh] ummah has divided/will divide into 73 different factions, you call this success??? The Prophet's [pbuh] Ummah has gone astray and you, along with Hazrath Umar (ra), believe it wouldn't, since the Qur'an was enough???? Well think again! The world thinks Islam is a religion of extremism and terrorism, you call this success??? You have organisations like Alqaida, Talibaan, Sipa-e-Sahaba etc running and being the cause of bloodshed, mayhem and murder, you call this success???

Islam is a success??? Absolutely! Why??? Because of Ahlul Baith. Are Muslims a success??? Not at all! Why??? Because they stood by the Qur'an and Sunnah but disregarded the Ahlul Baith and their teachings. This is why Muslims have been and are in trouble, in just about every corner in the world. And what do we Follow??? Qur'an??? Is that it??? Does the Sunnah have no meaning??? And what about the source, that one takes Qur'an and Sunnah from, is that not important??? Hazrath Umar was RIGHT??? Really??? So the Prophet [pbuh] was WRONG??? Is this your conclusion??? Every Muslim has the Qur'an, so no one can go astray??? Then why is the Muslim Ummah in tatters??? They have gone astray sunshine! Open your eyes. Completely astray! And straight after the demise of the Prophet [pbuh]. I can't give you what was to be written??? So you believe something was about to be written, but you also believe that Hazrath Umar (ra) was write in telling and informing the Prophet [pbuh], that Qur'an was enough and there was no need for this document/will, which the Prophet [pbuh] didn't have a clue about.

Thanks for putting the Hadith forward and lets look at the end bit: " The third ORDER was something BENEFICIAL, which either Ibne Abbas didn't mention or he did but I forgot ", WOW! So now tell me, what the hell was the third order and where the hell did it go??? There was a third order, wasn't there??? If it wasn't important, then why did the Prophet [pbuh] mention it??? Obviously because it was bloody important. Now who the hell are you and me to decide or anybody else, about what is important and what isn't, regarding the Prophet [pbuh]???

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Ameen look at all ur posts you must be wasting time writing all them tales but hey i tell you what to finish it all of because your going int sects and diff topics as you can see from your last post

To finish it all and make it clear to readers,

What was it that was to be written?

With proofs please, cos i am pretty sure the readers know that its OUR HADITH so.......show me the evidence FROM US!

Simple and we can move on!

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Ameen look at all ur posts you must be wasting time writing all them tales but hey i tell you what to finish it all of because your going int sects and diff topics as you can see from your last post

To finish it all and make it clear to readers,

What was it that was to be written?

With proofs please, cos i am pretty sure the readers know that its OUR HADITH so.......show me the evidence FROM US!

Simple and we can move on!

Again my friend, the posts do seem to get lengthy and the reason is, so I can cover all your points and respond to them adequately. Once again you haven't answered any of my questions, so that I and the people could understand, what the view of Ahle Sunnah Wal Jam'ah is on various matters and belief, through you. I have asked you plenty of questions regarding the points you have made but once again no answers. I've asked you simple and straight forward questions, regarding what we are discussing and no response from you, what so ever on the points I've made and asked. All you've done is divert towards making other points, which do not have any connection with what we are discussing and you accuse me with all the nonsense of sticking to the topic.

So tell me sunshine, you want to know what the document/will is and with proof??? I will take this one step at a time, since I'm sure you know this business is very time consuming. Lets hope after all my effort, you don't come up with this statement " Well it's your understanding and thinking, and it's what you make and think of it ". I've answered all your questions and will continue to do so, Inshallah! But nothing from you as usual and to be honest, it doesn't bother me because it's the people who are viewing our discussion, that I'm concerned about, what they think of mine and your posts and about the points that we make. Let them give the scores by deciding for themselves. Keep watching this space sunshine because there will be plenty for you to take in and digest!

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