Translations In The Koran

[Psyche24]

1. All translations are imperfect.
   
2. The Koran contains some translations.
   
3. Therefore, the Koran is imperfect.
   

For example...

But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." (Koran 5:72 AYA)

Do you think Christ spoke Arabic or that perfect translations exist? For example, the word "Yisrael" has three meanings in Hebrew and thus, there will need to be the same number of meanings in Arabic for Allah to perfectly translate this word. And not to mention its etymology. The word "Yisrael" means "prince of God" in Hebrew but what does that word mean in Arabic?

I would like to see which of the two premises above you can refute.

[guest 34193]

1. All translations are imperfect
   

I'd think you would first need to prove such an assertion. For example, where's the imperfection in this translation:

One plus one equals two

Un plus un égale deux

[Muhammad Ibrahim]

1. All translations are imperfect.
   
2. The Koran contains some translations.
   
3. Therefore, the Koran is imperfect.
   

Even using your own flawed logic you are incorrect.

1. All translations are imperfect.
   
2. The Koran has been translated.
   
3. Therefore, the translations of the Koran are imperfect.
   

That being said, the translation are not exactly "imperfect," it's just more of a challenge to get the exact same meaning when translating from Arabic to a different language, which is why we have phrase-by-phrase translations.

[Psyche24]

I'd think you would first need to prove such an assertion. For example, where's the imperfection in this translation:

One plus one equals two

Un plus un égale deux

I don't know French and I already supported my premises above using Koran 5:124.

[Gypsy]

1. All translations are imperfect.
   
2. The Koran contains some translations.
   
3. Therefore, the Koran is imperfect.
   

I would like to see which of the two premises above you can refute.

Your second premise appears to be false.

The Quran is a standalone book by itself. The original book doesn't have translation. Translation is only needed by those who don't understand the Arabic language. But some of us understand and speak Arabic as our native tongue.

[Muhammad Ibrahim]

Your second premise appears to be false.

The Quran is a standalone book by itself. The original book doesn't have translation. Translation is only needed by those who don't understand the Arabic language. But some of us understand and speak Arabic as our native tongue.

Actually my point was that YOUR premise was false. Like you said, the Quran is a standalone book -- that book is perfect. Translations are imperfect. The Quran has been translated, therefore the Quran is imperfect, when the logical conclusion would be the TRANSLATION of the Quran is imperfect, not the Quran itself.

[Ali Musaaa :)]

I see where you are coming from, however, as Muslims we believe the Qur'an is the perfect word of God. Therefore, any translations made by in the Qur'an recounting stories from past nations has been done by the Creator Himself and therefore is a perfect translation.

[Muhammad Ibrahim]

Your second premise appears to be false.

The Quran is a standalone book by itself. The original book doesn't have translation. Translation is only needed by those who don't understand the Arabic language. But some of us understand and speak Arabic as our native tongue.

Actually my point was that YOUR premise was false. Like you said, the Quran is a standalone book -- that book is perfect. Translations are imperfect. The Quran has been translated, therefore the Quran is imperfect, when the logical conclusion would be the TRANSLATION of the Quran is imperfect, not the Quran itself.

Edit: My mistake, I thought you were talking about translations of the Quran into other languages.

Well firstly, it is not 100% confirmed that Jesus (as) actually spoke Hebrew. Secondly, the translation of "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord" translates perfectly (if I'm reading it right you mean translated from Hebrew to Arabic) as it clearly references Beni Israel.

As macisaac said you have yet to actually prove that any translation in the Quran is imperfect.

[Psyche24]

Even using your own flawed logic you are incorrect.

1. All translations are imperfect.
   
2. The Koran has been translated.
   
3. Therefore, the translations of the Koran are imperfect.
   

That being said, the translation are not exactly "imperfect," it's just more of a challenge to get the exact same meaning when translating from Arabic to a different language, which is why we have phrase-by-phrase translations.

Yes, the translations of the Koran are imperfect and the book itself since it contains translations. The sayings of Moses, Jesus, Mary, Zackariah are mentioned in Arabic even though they never spoke that language.

[shadow_of_light]

Didn't Jesus(a) speak Hebrew? Hebrew and Arabic are very similar. I think they have the same origin.

The word "Allah" is very similar to the word "Elohim" ( אֱלוֹהִים , אלהים). I think some Jews believe that Allah is originally a Hebrew word.

Some Jews also have names like "Abdallah", ....

There are some articles in which the authors investigate the archaic meanings of Some Quranic words in Hebrew and Aramaic languages.

[.InshAllah.]

The Quran is perfect, but perfect what? Not an unqualified unconditional perfect, otherwise it would have all of Gods attributes: it would be literally all powerful, everlasting, fully independent etc. The Quran is a perfect book of guidance. This is consistent with it containing non-literal 'translations'.

[Gypsy]

Actually my point was that YOUR premise was false. Like you said, the Quran is a standalone book -- that book is perfect. Translations are imperfect. The Quran has been translated, therefore the Quran is imperfect, when the logical conclusion would be the TRANSLATION of the Quran is imperfect, not the Quran itself.

Edit: My mistake, I thought you were talking about translations of the Quran into other languages.

Well firstly, it is not 100% confirmed that Jesus (as) actually spoke Hebrew. Secondly, the translation of "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord" translates perfectly (if I'm reading it right you mean translated from Hebrew to Arabic) as it clearly references Beni Israel.

As macisaac said you have yet to actually prove that any translation in the Quran is imperfect.

I think you were trying to correct his premises. Your example did show him exactly how he went wrong in his conclusion. I hope he is reading your post and learning.

Personally, I don't even think he was getting anywhere.

His first statement, which was correct by the way, already implied everything (including the conclusion).

All translations of the holy book (including the Quran) are imperfect. I don't think anyone is going to argue with that because that's the nature of language translation.

[mun3t]

1. All translations are imperfect.
   
2. The Koran contains some translations.
   
3. Therefore, the Koran is imperfect.
   

For example...

But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." (Koran 5:72 AYA)

Do you think Christ spoke Arabic or that perfect translations exist? For example, the word "Yisrael" has three meanings in Hebrew and thus, there will need to be the same number of meanings in Arabic for Allah to perfectly translate this word. And not to mention its etymology. The word "Yisrael" means "prince of God" in Hebrew but what does that word mean in Arabic?

I would like to see which of the two premises above you can refute.

ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑÍãä ÇáÑÍíã

You have already refuted your argument by asking about the existence of perfect translations. God created everything in pairs, without perfection, imperfection cannot exist - you have to compare something to its superior to deem it imperfect. Accordingly, Allah who is Perfect cannot be imperfect and His words are therefore perfect. On the other hand, humans are subjected to imperfection - save a few - and therefore creates imperfect translations.

Whatever translation of the Quran you read are based on interpretation of the context and the words. For this reason we, Muslims, claim that the Quran cannot be translated, for only Allah - the Author - His prophet and progeny knows the meaning of these verses.

Furthermore, do you even read the Quran? The faithful prophets, angels and the faithless did not speak with such an eloquence as it has been narrated [by Allah who knows what is hidden in the hearts] in the Quran.

By the way, from which pocket did you reach out to find that conclusion? The Creator and the created are not the same. Tell me, Is the faithful and the faithless equal? Or the living and dead? Or those who knows and those who do not know?

[ImamAliLover]

(bismillah)

(salam)

Another flaw in this is assuming that everything in the Quran is translated. One of the fascinating things about the Quran is it sometimes uses words that are shared in both Arabic and Hebrew (and sometimes other languages as well).

For example, when describing how Moses(pbuh)'s mom placed him in the river, the Quran specifically used the word "yamm" which is both an Arabic and a Hebrew word (i'm not sure if it has the shadda in Hebrew but it's basically the same word)

Secondly, give a single example of a mistranslation in the Quran. The first premise has already been shown to be false.

And there's no need to translate names. In English, when we call a friend named Ja'far, do we say, "Hey Creek!" or do we say, "Hey Ja'far!" ?

And Allah(swt) knows best

[Q.A]

Yes, the translations of the Koran are imperfect and the book itself since it contains translations. The sayings of Moses, Jesus, Mary, Zackariah are mentioned in Arabic even though they never spoke that language.

translations made by man are imperfect the Quran is the word of Allah. who knows what language angels and djinn spoke in but the word of god is perfect

[hasanhh]

(salam)

Actually my point was that YOUR premise was false. Like you said, the Quran is a standalone book -- that book is perfect. Translations are imperfect. The Quran has been translated, therefore the Quran is imperfect, when the logical conclusion would be the TRANSLATION of the Quran is imperfect, not the Quran itself.

[JawzofDETH]

1. All translations are imperfect.
   
2. The Koran contains some translations.
   
3. Therefore, the Koran is imperfect.
   

For example...

But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." (Koran 5:72 AYA)

Do you think Christ spoke Arabic or that perfect translations exist? For example, the word "Yisrael" has three meanings in Hebrew and thus, there will need to be the same number of meanings in Arabic for Allah to perfectly translate this word. And not to mention its etymology. The word "Yisrael" means "prince of God" in Hebrew but what does that word mean in Arabic?

I would like to see which of the two premises above you can refute.

1) Christ spoke aramaic so what he (as) would have said would have been pretty darn close.

Semitic languages are very very similar.

2) As to the issue of that verse, it has no allegorical meaning in it's recounting, it is a clear verse of plain guidance.

3) Lastly if the Lord Of The Worlds, desired for certain verses to retain deeper/ rich meanings, they would.

Was-Salaam

Didn't Jesus(a) speak Hebrew? Hebrew and Arabic are very similar. I think they have the same origin.

He spoke Aramaic (which is even closer) and Koneic Greek.

[Son of Placid]

Given that Jesus could speak from infancy I doubt He had any language barriers.

My problem with the Quran is

#1, I don't speak nor read Arabic so I am stuck with the imperfect to start.

#2. There are so many meanings for a single word in Arabic that all ayats are questionable in the sense that the phrase could be totally turned around.

#3. When I find something that looks parallel to past scripture, sure as anything there's a hadith that will turn white to black and black to white so now everything is kinda grey.

#4. Hadith is not the words of God but Muslims seem to follow hadith closer than the Quran making it almost impossible to understand how some Muslims come to the conclusions they do.

#5. Maybe it's just me, :cry:

[JawzofDETH]

My problem with the Quran is

#2. There are so many meanings for a single word in Arabic that all ayats are questionable in the sense that the phrase could be totally turned around.

As an english-first speaker like yourself, totally turned around I haven't come across this.

Made to be interpreted differently, yes.

#3. When I find something that looks parallel to past scripture, sure as anything there's a hadith that will turn white to black and black to white so now everything is kinda grey.

#4. Hadith is not the words of God but Muslims seem to follow hadith closer than the Quran making it almost impossible to understand how some Muslims come to the conclusions they do.

#5. Maybe it's just me, :cry:

No, it's not just you. This can occur and it happens the same when we read the Bible, but in the case of Islam- the oral traditions are subject to authenticaion and also must at the same time adhere to the established verses of the Qur'aan. The most important thing to help in your case when you get confused is to first research the occassion of revelation, this often provides the correct context to the verse, but be weary of inauthentic traditions.

Was-Salaam

Edited October 26, 2012 by JawzofDETH