Dialogue With Taliban Is The Only Solution?

[Aabiss_Shakari]

(salam)

There are three stories.

1. Taliban shoot young girl Malala Yousafzai on her head after identifying her when she was returning home after attending school. She is in critical condition.

2. Taliban attached a bus returning from Kohat to Parachinaar carrying young girls from Kohat to Parachinaar who were returning home after attending M.Sc/M.A exams. They threw acid on their faces and injured them seriously.

Pakistan Tehreek e Insaf and religious parties say that dialogue with Taliban is the only solution and Taliban are doing all this due to Drone Attacks by U.S.A.

Sorry i missed one more story.

3. A dog in our street bites passerbys daily. Two days back two of my family members were coming to my house when the dog attacked them and bite them without any provocation.

I have cotacted Imran Khan and PTI members and religious parties. They have advised me to have dialogue with the dog. May be he understand the situation and do not harm others.

[titumir]

Its simple, you cannot kill the Taliban like you can kill the dog. And there lies the problem.

[Ali Musaaa :)]

Wa alaykum salaam

I am so confused... Can someone explain what's going on?

[titumir]

And another thing which I believe is very important -- The Taliban are being blamed for shooting Malalai Yousufzai, but I bet, if she was killed by a drone fired missile no one would have a headache about it, similar to how they do not have a headache about the hundreds of children who are killed by drone strikes. So I find it very hypocritical to try to capitalize on the Malalai Yousufzai shooting while NATO is killing tens of children every week.

[Gypsy]

Wa alaykum salaam

I am so confused... Can someone explain what's going on?

He's trying to point out how useless it is to have a dialogue with the barbaric Taliban.

If a dog bites you, you wouldn't be having a dialogue with it, would you?

It's the same case with the Taliban. They are crazy, lunatic, extremists. Maybe we would be doing everyone a favor just by killing them all.

[Marbles]

And another thing which I believe is very important -- The Taliban are being blamed for shooting Malalai Yousufzai, but I bet, if she was killed by a drone fired missile no one would have a headache about it, similar to how they do not have a headache about the hundreds of children who are killed by drone strikes. So I find it very hypocritical to try to capitalize on the Malalai Yousufzai shooting while NATO is killing tens of children every week.

No, it's not hypocritical. For drones to equal Taliban bullets, you'll have to believe that the one which found Malala's head was a misdirected bullet fired by a filthy Talib to kill someone else.

United States' stated aim isn't to kill young children and women whereas Taliban stated aim is to kill innocent women, children, men, old people and whoever that is left who doesn't agree with them.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Marbles

[Abu_Muslim]

No, it's not hypocritical. For drones to equal Taliban bullets, you'll have to believe that the one which found Malala's head was a misdirected bullet fired by a filthy Talib to kill someone else.

United States' stated aim isn't to kill young children and women w

Apart from the fact that this young woman has met with the CIA and her dad is on the payroll. Why are you defending the United states? Isn't United states the biggest supporter of the zionists? So much for being an enemy of the American-supported Zionists :shifty:

[The Green Knight]

This whole Malala hype was created as a diversion and "balancing" tactic in response to the Muslim protests against that damned movie. As for the Tehreek Taliban, I don't know why they mention dialogue because mercenaries have no use for dialogue. They're not a single body and there is no single chain of command, only sizable cells. These big cells / groups are on payrolls of different countries including the US / Saudi, India, even Pak Army. The zealots carry the simply unhealable wound of Lal Masjid which they keep rubbing and scratching to justify any and all of their actions.

The only solution is to cull them until they surrender but that can not happen since the army needs their paramilitary "Taliban" to do their dirty laundry. So only some monumental scale event in the country will change the situation. Which might happen soon in the shape of a rogue nuclear dirty bomb detonating somewhere.

[titumir]

No, it's not hypocritical. For drones to equal Taliban bullets, you'll have to believe that the one which found Malala's head was a misdirected bullet fired by a filthy Talib to kill someone else.

United States' stated aim isn't to kill young children and women whereas Taliban stated aim is to kill innocent women, children, men, old people and whoever that is left who doesn't agree with them.

Why should I believe this? The US might say it does not seek to kill children, but why should I believe it? The fact is that the US kills hundreds of children a month, and even after it is clear that its drone strikes kill children it continues the strikes. So for me it is a fact that the US kills children on purpose.

[skylight2]

Apart from the fact that this young woman has met with the CIA and her dad is on the payroll. Why are you defending the United states? Isn't United states the biggest supporter of the zionists? So much for being an enemy of the American-supported Zionists :shifty:

you are new to Marbalism I see... but Mabale does have a point... I'm sure if he could even find a doctor who would claim that the hundreds of thousands of children killed by US drones and war and sanctions etc. died a different kind of death, that is why we must never ever say unkind things about the one true nation that is spreading liberty all over the planet. Also please pay no attention to the arms flow to Al Qaeda by the US in Syria and Libya and probably elsewhere - those are just conspiracy theories.

Edited October 17, 2012 by skylight2

[Marbles]

Apart from the fact that this young woman has met with the CIA and her dad is on the payroll. Why are you defending the United states? Isn't United states the biggest supporter of the zionists? So much for being an enemy of the American-supported Zionists :shifty:

So writing a diary for the BBC on "life under the Taliban" equals meeting with the CIA and being on their payroll? Even if its true, the alliance would have been for the right reasons. Allying even with pigs against the Taliban ideology can be easily justified.

[Marbles]

Why should I believe this? The US might say it does not seek to kill children, but why should I believe it? The fact is that the US kills hundreds of children a month, and even after it is clear that its drone strikes kill children it continues the strikes. So for me it is a fact that the US kills children on purpose.

Here is a military that is indifferent to the deaths of innocent civilians if they can take out a terrorist or two in their air strikes. Outrageous as much as it is, the fact remains that the US has no stake in killing ordinary Rehman, Salman and Irfan on the ground, much less killing the children who are no threat to them. If they kill more civilians than militants, it reflects more on the failure of their strategy than on their policies of butchering people.

And then there is a rabid zombie-like groups of raving militants actively seeking and murdering innocent civilians in bomb attacks and target assassinations. Malala is a potent example of this phenomenon. It's kind of good. These Salafism- infested zombies expose a bit more of their true faces every other day.

Not hard to see the difference.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Marbles

[Waiting for HIM]

There is only one universal and most humane solution for a rabid dog.

Liquidation. The diplomatic word for a least painful elimination in total accordance with Islamic rulings.

Everything else is being a party of the rabid dog which means the sympathizers deserve the same remedy.

[titumir]

There is only one universal and most humane solution for a rabid dog.

Liquidation. The diplomatic word for a least painful elimination in total accordance with Islamic rulings.

Everything else is being a party of the rabid dog which means the sympathizers deserve the same remedy.

This is the exact ideology of the Taliban, and the reason why they attack civilians with impunity. This ideology is what made them attack Malalai Yousufzai.

Edited October 17, 2012 by titumir

[Marbles]

This is the exact ideology of the Taliban, and the reason why they attack civilians with impunity. This ideology is what made them attack Malalai Yousufzai.

That's exactly what Chamberlain said about the Fascists and see where it'd gotten him.

Sorry but there's no tolerance for intolerance.

If you tolerate intolerance you are the one who's going to get hurt eventually. It won't make much difference to the intolerant.

I am willing and ready to let them live in peace so long as they let me live in peace. But it's clear that they don't want to let me live in peace. And I ain't offering the other cheek, sorry.

[Waiting for HIM]

That's exactly what Chamberlain said about the Fascists and see where it'd gotten him.

Sorry but there's no tolerance for intolerance.

If you tolerate intolerance you are the one who's going to get hurt eventually. It won't make much difference to the intolerant.

I am willing and ready to let them live in peace so long as they let me live in peace. But it's clear that they don't want to let me live in peace. And I ain't offering the other cheek, sorry.

You summed up Islamic (and logical) concept of 'preserving human dignity through steadfastness' in very plain language. There's no tolerance for intolerance. Thank you.

Either the Taliban are wrong or Imam Ali is wrong when he liquidated the Kharjiz. Now isn't it essential part of our belief that Imam Ali (as) can never be wrong... So we got our answer.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Waiting for HIM

[titumir]

Either the Taliban are wrong or Imam Ali is wrong when he liquidated the Kharjiz. Now isn't it essential part of our belief that Imam Ali (as) can never be wrong... So we got our answer.

Imam Ali (as) defeated the Kharijis in a well planned out legal manner in which they initiated the war through an illegal act. In fact, you are bringing up a man who, in his first act against the Kharijis, sent a delegation for DIALOGUE with them. Imam Ali (as) continued to ask them to step aside right up to the battle, with good results as several Kharijis defected to the good side.

You are advocating the elimination of the entire Pashtun race, from which the Taliban arises out of, including all "sympathisers". No doubt I fall into it in your viewpoint, as I was saying that the Taliban shooting cannot be viewed as more evil than NATO bombings. I don't even know what the hell you mean by your words, because its not like NATO isn't already engaged in "wiping out" the "rabid dog". The way you speak, it is as if NATO was going soft on the Taliban, and you were the hawkish action figure who wanted a different course of action.

You all are entitled to your opinions, your typical macho Pakistani opinions, of wiping out this and destroying that and exterminating them, showing them no mercy, and believing, in the typical Pakistani style, that you're all following in the footsteps of Imam Ali (as) - while he did the exact opposite of what you are advocating. And in the typical Pakistani style your actions will spectacularly fail, as it has always failed throughout history.

"Kill three million of them and they'll be eating out of your hands" - this quote by a famous Pakistani leader springs to my mind.

[Waiting for HIM]

You ought to learn history my brother. Imam Ali (as) showed compassion only to the lesser level mufsedeen such as Aisha and Muawiah.

For Kharjiz (today's combatant salafis and Taliban), Imam showed zero tolerance because in Islam a righteous Islamic judge (or leader) can not be compassionate to the rapist or a willful murderer on the expense of the society and the weak.

[Marbles]

You all are entitled to your opinions, your typical macho Pakistani opinions, of wiping out this and destroying that and exterminating them, showing them no mercy, and believing, in the typical Pakistani style, that you're all following in the footsteps of Imam Ali (as) - while he did the exact opposite of what you are advocating. And in the typical Pakistani style your actions will spectacularly fail, as it has always failed throughout history.

Ignoring your rant about "Pakistani style", which is rather sad coming from a person of your intelligence, it is clear you still do not understand the situation here on the ground. Those rabid pigs will behead you only the next moment you show them "mercy". This policy has already been tried and tested in Swat in 2009, the same Swat where Malala comes from. The rabid pigs broke the accord within a month and started their campaign of 'conquering Islamabad" which is less than 100 KMs away.

And for your kind information, we, or at least I, only call for the annihilation of gun wielding filthy beards who are actively wreaking havoc in the length and breadth of the country and beyond. Those subhumans are still being tolerated by the establishment here. My call for annihilation doesn't cover their ideologues, sympathizers, and especially ordinary Salafis/Wahhabis who go on their business so long as they keep their guns in their cupboards.

Try living in a country that has been destroyed by Salafi ideology through the connivance of the military and civilian cronies. Ordinary people like us who have had our friends and family members killed and who live in perpetual fear have been pushed toward taking this apparently "merciless" stance.

We have a saying in Farsi. "Tang aamad bajang aamad", loosely translated as: When you are completely fed up (with being terrorised, maimed and murdered), all you have left to do is to fight back.

The more the pressure on those rabid pigs, be it bullets, tanks, gunship helicopters or even American drones, the better.

[Waiting for HIM]

The more the pressure on those rabid pigs, be it bullets, tanks, gunship helicopters or even American drones, the better.

Two more things...

No right minded Muslim (specifically a true muslim like Shia) can agree with killing non combatant men, women, children and the weak of Wahabis or other misguided people. No one here is suggesting going beyond what Imam Ali (as) or in Imam's sunnah, Mukhtar (ra) did to them. Nothing more but definitely nothing less either. Anybody who suggests doing "less" to them than what Imam Ali (as) did is equally mistaken as someone who wants to transgress.

As far the what brother wrote above, there is this Hadith of the end times which suggest exactly this, don't take sides. If drones are liquidating these worst enemies of humanity, these worst of mankind Taliban, then be it. Even if the drone strikes are selective, that is they might be killing more the Afghan Taliban than the Paki Taliban, both kind of Taliban are bad for everybody else so good riddance.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Waiting for HIM

[skylight2]

No right minded Muslim (specifically a true muslim like Shia) can agree with killing non combatant men, women, children and the weak of Wahabis or other misguided people. No one here is suggesting going beyond what Imam Ali (as) or in Imam's sunnah, Mukhtar (ra) did to them. Nothing more but definitely nothing less either. Anybody who suggests doing "less" to them than what Imam Ali (as) did is equally mistaken as someone who wants to transgress.

As far the what brother wrote above, there is this Hadith of the end times which suggest exactly this, don't take sides. If drones are liquidating these worst enemies of humanity, these worst of mankind Taliban, then be it. Even if the drone strikes are selective, that is they might be killing more the Afghan Taliban than the Paki Taliban, both kind of Taliban are bad for everybody else so good riddance.

According your personal ruling is it OK for drones to kill lots of the type you identified in your first paragraph? Do you still support them? Also what is your religious / sunna based justification for supporting Americans? (since, you support the drones).

Also, do you follow a marja, or a WF, on social-political issues, or do you only do taqleed on personal matters? I'm just wondering how you have derived the above rulings of supporting the Zio-US drones?

Edited October 18, 2012 by skylight2

[Sapphire]

At this point of time, I think dialogue with such violence inducing barbarians is futile. These perpetrators would never understand and know what it means to have a civilized negotiation. I do not understand the point of their harassing young women who have left their homes for education. What are they really fighting for?

[The Green Knight]

I've written this before and I agree with Waiting for Him. There are no sides to take in these Evil versus Evil conflicts except feel sorry for the innocent victims. Drones (or rather actually US fighter jets in reality) bomb indiscriminately / blindly and so do the suicide bombers. The entire region suffers due to this madness. I get to pay 5 times more for gasoline / power and hence everything else as compared to pre-911 times. I get to risk more and spend more due to insecurity. I get to tolerate scumbag puppet governments and behold the devolution of my country. There is a vicious cycle going on between sadistic oil and rare minerals robbers and the suicidal Khariji masochists longing for their 70 virgins they can only dream of. In fact the entire world's populace is suffering because of it and waiting for this sick drama to end. I hope the world's countries all wake up, put their shiz together, break the NATO pact, and like in the old day ask for a Magna Carta from US which like King John, has become a rabid dog and a threat for the entire world. And if Taliban fire one more bullet after that they should just nerve gas their mountains and get it over with. Peace for the world. Seriously, how long is this drama going to last?

[Q.A]

the possibility of dialogue must always be kept open. but when you have to shoot.... shoot dont talk