Sunnis And Shias- Can We Just Unite...?

[SunniBrother 200]

6 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى forgive them if they did. This atleast confirms that twelver shia existed at the time of prophet (sawa). 

Oh the irony....

[power 1,229]

The only shoe issue i could find is this:

The Prophet (S) said: "There is amongst you a person who will fight for the interpretation of the Qur’an just as I fought for its revelation.”The people around him raised their heads and cast inquisitive glances at the Prophet (S) and at one another. Abu Bakr and Umar were there. Abu Bakr inquired if he was that person and the Prophet (S) replied in the negative. Then Umar inquired if he was that person and the Prophet (S), replied "No. He is the one who is repairing my SHOE (i.e., ‘Ali)."

[shadow_of_light 1,627]

This narration also cobtradicts another verse which says و جادلوهم بالتی هی احسن

[SunniBrother 200]

1 minute ago, power said:

The only shoe issue i could find is this:

The Prophet (S) said: "There is amongst you a person who will fight for the interpretation of the Qur’an just as I fought for its revelation.”The people around him raised their heads and cast inquisitive glances at the Prophet (S) and at one another. Abu Bakr and Umar were there. Abu Bakr inquired if he was that person and the Prophet (S) replied in the negative. Then Umar inquired if he was that person and the Prophet (S), replied "No. He is the one who is repairing my SHOE (i.e., ‘Ali)."

Your gullibility must be legendary...

[shadow_of_light 1,627]

Imam Hassan Askari (a):

: اوصيكم بتقوي‌الله والورع في‌دينكم و الاجتهاد لله و صدق الحديث و اداء الامانه الي من ائتمنكم من بر او فاجر و طول السجود و حسن‌الجوار فبهذا جاء محمد صلي‌الله عليه وآله و سلم. صلوافي عشائرهم و اشهدوا جنائزهم و عودوا مرضاهم وادوا حقوقهم فان‌الرجل منكم اذا ورع في‌دينه و صدق في‌حديثه و أدي الامانه و حسن خلقه مع‌الناس قيل‌: هذا شيعي فيسرني ذلك (بحارالانوار، ج 78، ص 372).

[Sirius_Bright 3,505]

Just now, shadow_of_light said:

This narration also cobtradicts another verse which says و جادلوهم بالتی هی احسن

Holy Quran is not easy to understand for it is not an ordinary book. There are mohkam and mutashabeh verses. You will find verses contradicting for different things but it isn't. Merely mentioning a part of the verse (that too without mentioning exact reference) doesn't help. For understanding the book of Allah we need guides from Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. Each verses should be referred for it's Tafseer from Ahlulbait (ams). 

[SunniBrother 200]

4 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Holy Quran is not easy to understand for it is not an ordinary book. There are mohkam and mutashabeh verses. You will find verses contradicting for different things but it isn't. Merely mentioning a part of the verse (that too without mentioning exact reference) doesn't help. For understanding the book of Allah we need guides from Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. Each verses should be referred for it's Tafseer from Ahlulbait (ams). 

(54:22) We have made the Qur'an easy to derive lessons from. Is there, then, any who will take heed?

[shadow_of_light 1,627]

2 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Holy Quran is not easy to understand for it is not an ordinary book. There are mohkam and mutashabeh verses. You will find verses contradicting for different things but it isn't. Merely mentioning a part of the verse (that too without mentioning exact reference) doesn't help. For understanding the book of Allah we need guides from Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. Each verses should be referred for it's Tafseer from Ahlulbait (ams). 

I think the verse which says " dont curse" و لا تسبوا is very clear and easy to understand. Shias dont need to insult their enemies because they have enough strong evidence to prove their faith. Insulting is immoral and unIslamic and it is what weak illogical people choose to do.

[Sirius_Bright 3,505]

5 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

(54:22) We have made the Qur'an easy to derive lessons from. Is there, then, any who will take heed?

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 7:
هُوَ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ

He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
(English - Shakir)

[Sirius_Bright 3,505]

4 minutes ago, shadow_of_light said:

I think the verse which says " dont curse" و لا تسبوا is very clear and easy to understand. Shias dont need to insult their enemies because they have enough strong evidence to prove their faith. Insulting is immoral and unIslamic and it is what weak illogical people choose to do.

Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى himself has cursed different groups in Quran. Eg:

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 64:
إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَعَنَ الْكَافِرِينَ وَأَعَدَّ لَهُمْ سَعِيرًا

Surely Allah has cursed the unbelievers and has prepared for them a burning fire,
(English - Shakir)

[SunniBrother 200]

15 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى himself has cursed different groups in Quran. Eg:

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 64:
إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَعَنَ الْكَافِرِينَ وَأَعَدَّ لَهُمْ سَعِيرًا

Surely Allah has cursed the unbelievers and has prepared for them a burning fire,
(English - Shakir)

The verse is addressing Kaffirs. Only a follower of Ibn Muljam will use that verse on Muslims. Are you calling me a Kaffir?

[shadow_of_light 1,627]

By cursing, I meant using bad language.

Believing that you are allowed to falsely accuse (tell lie about) those whom you consider innovators (according to that fake narration) is a very dangerous belief because

1. Then everyone (whether shia or sunni or ...) allows himself to tell lies about those whom they consider as innovators so people will become liars and even justify their lies! (Doesnt Islam try to teach people to be honest?)

And

2. One day, people will understand that what you told them was a lie. Then what answer will you have to give them?

End doesnt justify the means!

[SunniBrother 200]

8 minutes ago, shadow_of_light said:

By cursing, I meant using bad language.

Believing that you are allowed to falsely accuse (tell lie about) those whom you consider innovators (according to that fake narration) is a very dangerous belief because

1. Then everyone (whether shia or sunni or ...) allows himself to tell lies about those whom they consider as innovators so people will become liars and even justify their lies! (Doesnt Islam try to teach people to be honest?)

And

2. One day, people will understand that what you told them was a lie. Then what answer will you have to give them?

End doesnt justify the means!

May Allah bless you

[Mansur Bakhtiari 1,170]

1 hour ago, shadow_of_light said:

This narration cannot be authentic because it clearly contradicts Quran and is against "sirah" of the Prophet (s) and Imams (a). A true muslim doesnt insult or use bad language

Al-Majlisi (ra) says the hadith is Sahih (Mirat al-Uqool, Volume 11, Page 77)

Sayed al-Khoei (ra) also says:

Misbah al Fuqaha Volume 2 Page 11:  It has been proven in the narrations and Ziyarat and supplications that it is permissible to curse the ones who oppose us, and that it is obligatory to disown them, and increase their insults, and accuse them, and slander them, meaning to curse them because they are from the people of innovation and doubt. 

[SunniBrother 200]

15 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Al-Majlisi (ra) says the hadith is Sahih (Mirat al-Uqool, Volume 11, Page 77)

Sayed al-Khoei (ra) also says:

Misbah al Fuqaha Volume 2 Page 11:  It has been proven in the narrations and Ziyarat and supplications that it is permissible to curse the ones who oppose us, and that it is obligatory to disown them, and increase their insults, and accuse them, and slander them, meaning to curse them because they are from the people of innovation and doubt. 

So do you like when Sunnis insult you ?

Edited November 18, 2017 by SunniBrother

[Mansur Bakhtiari 1,170]

6 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

So do you like when Sunnis insult you ?

I don't care very much, unless you start killing us.

[Hasani Samnani 104]

3 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

So do you like when Sunnis insult your Kufr religion you Rafida ? Eye for and Eye you first grade Mudtabi. How do you like that ? Is good isn't ? You idol worshipper. Shia of Shaytan.

Here we go again. Because of unfortunately misguided thoughts and assumptions, the discussion/conversation has descended into name calling and insults. 

Shias who readily insult, curse and malign others are unfortunately the most cowardly of Our Shia. Ask them to defend innocent Shia being slaughtered by wahabis in Parichinar, Yemen, Syria or Iraq and they have the most convenient excuses. They personify the arrogance of Shaytan towards Adam because of self righteous over inflation of their egos. Humility is a term not native to their vocabulary.

Akhlaq, manners, respect, controlling anger, showing others the errors of their ways thru peace and kindness, these are the true legacies of Our Imams.

By all means my dear brothers demonstrate your True Nobilty thru Ahlul Bayt like actions, OR alternatively make the Ziosaudis happy and become Shaytan like and show how humans can be described in Sura AT Teen :SUMA RADADNAHO AS FALA SAFEY LEEEN. 

[ManofIslam 47]

I just have one question, at this stage: Do Shias believe that their Imams are infallible?

[Hasani Samnani 104]

1 hour ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Al-Majlisi (ra) says the hadith is Sahih (Mirat al-Uqool, Volume 11, Page 77)

Sayed al-Khoei (ra) also says:

Misbah al Fuqaha Volume 2 Page 11:  It has been proven in the narrations and Ziyarat and supplications that it is permissible to curse the ones who oppose us, and that it is obligatory to disown them, and increase their insults, and accuse them, and slander them, meaning to curse them because they are from the people of innovation and doubt. 

MY dear respected brother Mansur, the word used by The Grand Ayatullah is MUKHALIFEEN  , this does not refer our Sunnie brothers, please read the original Arabic, these are referring to those who directly threaten ( the opposition) the Aimmah and their Shia. This is those who want to kill Shia and eliminate them, Like the Wahabis who looted Karbala many times and slaughtered the innocents.

It does not refer to our Sunni brothers who are often not familiar with ; the numerous pro Ahlul Bayt Hadees, the relatively high level of Hazrat Ali  (a.s) in relation to all other companions, the history of Ghadeer, Mubahela, Bani  Saqeefa, Khaybar, Nahjul Balagha.

We don't curse those who have not been guided, we can if you like curse those who attempt to kill you or attack your Imams, in that case  Defend yourself by all means, if you want to use only your tongue no problem, but realize that is the lowest form of Jihad.

AND yes Shia believe the Imams were not only Infallible but Allah TWT keeps them away from all "Rijs" anything not pure e.g. sins, errors, doubts, unclean anything, etc  ( very large encompassing definition).

[SunniBrother 200]

30 minutes ago, ManofIslam said:

I just have one question, at this stage: Do Shias believe that their Imams are infallible?

Yes they do. The Twelvers added a article of faith to their religion after the Prophet (S). They need to recognize this as Bidah because is just non-existing pillar during the time of the Prophet (S). They need to provide evidence that the Prophet (S) believed that Jafar al Saddiq (a) and other where considered infallible by the Prophet (S) himself.

[Mansur Bakhtiari 1,170]

42 minutes ago, Hasani Samnani said:

Shias who readily insult, curse and malign others are unfortunately the most cowardly of Our Shia. Ask them to defend innocent Shia being slaughtered by wahabis in Parichinar, Yemen, Syria or Iraq and they have the most convenient excuses.

Quite the generalization.

1 minute ago, SunniBrother said:

They need to provide evidence that the Prophet (S) believed that Jafar al Saddiq (a) and other where considered infallible by the Prophet (S) himself

Kitab al-Kafi Volume one Page 525-526

عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ الْبَرْقِيِّ عَنْ أَبِي هَاشِمٍ دَاوُدَ بْنِ الْقَاسِمِ الْجَعْفَرِيِّ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ الثَّانِي ع قَالَ أَقْبَلَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ع وَ مَعَهُ الْحَسَنُ بْنُ عَلِيٍّ ع وَ هُوَ مُتَّكِئٌ عَلَى يَدِ سَلْمَانَ فَدَخَلَ الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ فَجَلَسَ إِذْ أَقْبَلَ رَجُلٌ حَسَنُ الْهَيْئَةِ وَ اللِّبَاسِ فَسَلَّمَ عَلَى أَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ فَرَدَّ عَلَيْهِ السَّلَامَ فَجَلَسَ ثُمَّ قَالَ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَسْأَلُكَ عَنْ ثَلَاثِ مَسَائِلَ إِنْ أَخْبَرْتَنِي بِهِنَّ عَلِمْتُ أَنَّ الْقَوْمَ رَكِبُوا مِنْ أَمْرِكَ مَا قُضِيَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَ أَنْ لَيْسُوا بِمَأْمُونِينَ فِي دُنْيَاهُمْ وَ آخِرَتِهِمْ وَ إِنْ تَكُنِ الْأُخْرَى عَلِمْتُ أَنَّكَ وَ هُمْ شَرَعٌ سَوَاءٌ فَقَالَ لَهُ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ع سَلْنِي عَمَّا بَدَا لَكَ قَالَ أَخْبِرْنِي عَنِ الرَّجُلِ إِذَا نَامَ أَيْنَ تَذْهَبُ رُوحُهُ وَ عَنِ الرَّجُلِ كَيْفَ يَذْكُرُ وَ يَنْسَى وَ عَنِ الرَّجُلِ كَيْفَ يُشْبِهُ وَلَدُهُ الْأَعْمَامَ وَ الْأَخْوَالَ فَالْتَفَتَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ع إِلَى الْحَسَنِ فَقَالَ يَا أَبَا مُحَمَّدٍ أَجِبْهُ قَالَ فَأَجَابَهُ الْحَسَنُ ع فَقَالَ الرَّجُلُ أَشْهَدُ أَنْ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَ لَمْ أَزَلْ أَشْهَدُ بِهَا وَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً رَسُولُ اللَّهِ وَ لَمْ أَزَلْ أَشْهَدُ بِذَلِكَ وَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّكَ وَصِيُّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ص وَ الْقَائِمُ بِحُجَّتِهِ وَ أَشَارَ إِلَى أَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَ لَمْ أَزَلْ أَشْهَدُ بِهَا وَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّكَ وَصِيُّهُ وَ الْقَائِمُ بِحُجَّتِهِ وَ أَشَارَ إِلَى الْحَسَنِ ع وَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ الْحُسَيْنَ بْنَ عَلِيٍّ وَصِيُّ أَخِيهِ وَ الْقَائِمُ بِحُجَّتِهِ بَعْدَهُ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ أَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ الْحُسَيْنِ بَعْدَهُ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ أَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى جَعْفَرِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ بِأَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى مُوسَى أَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى عَلِيِّ بْنِ مُوسَى أَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ مُوسَى بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ أَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ عَلِيِّ بْنِ مُوسَى وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى عَلِيِّ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ بِأَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى الْحَسَنِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ بِأَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ عَلِيِّ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى رَجُلٍ مِنْ وُلْدِ الْحَسَنِ لَا يُكَنَّى وَ لَا يُسَمَّى حَتَّى يَظْهَرَ أَمْرُهُ فَيَمْلَأَهَا عَدْلًا كَمَا مُلِئَتْ جَوْراً وَ السَّلَامُ عَلَيْكَ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَ رَحْمَةُ اللَّهِ وَ بَرَكَاتُهُ ثُمَّ قَامَ فَمَضَى فَقَالَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ يَا أَبَا مُحَمَّدٍ اتْبَعْهُ فَانْظُرْ أَيْنَ يَقْصِدُ فَخَرَجَ الْحَسَنُ بْنُ عَلِيٍّ ع فَقَالَ مَا كَانَ إِلَّا أَنْ وَضَعَ رِجْلَهُ خَارِجاً مِنَ الْمَسْجِدِ فَمَا دَرَيْتُ أَيْنَ أَخَذَ مِنْ أَرْضِ اللَّهِ فَرَجَعْتُ إِلَى أَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ع فَأَعْلَمْتُهُ فَقَالَ يَا أَبَا مُحَمَّدٍ أَ تَعْرِفُهُ قُلْتُ اللَّهُ وَ رَسُولُهُ وَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَعْلَمُ قَالَ هُوَ الْخَضِرُ ع 

Aboo Ja`far Al-Thaanee (Imaam Al-Taqee Al-Jawaad) said: "Once Amir al-Mu’minin `Alee عليه السلام came with al-Hassan and al-Husayn and he was holding the hand of Salman for support. He entered the sacred Mosque in Makka and sat down. Then a good looking and well dressed man came. He offered the greeting of peace to Amir al-Mu’minin `Alee عليه السلام who answered his greetings likewise and he sat down. He then said, "I will ask you three questions. If you would answer them I will acknowledge that the people who have acted against you in the matters of leadership after the Holy Prophet (s.a) they have acted against their own selves. Their actions have taken away peace from them in this world as well in the next life. If it would be otherwise, (you can answer) then you and those people will be the same." Amir al-Mu’minin`Alee عليه السلام said, "Ask whatever you would like." He said, "Tell about the man who sleeps. Where does his spirit go?" Tell about the man, how he remembers and forgets? Tell me about the man how do his children become similar to the aunts and uncles?" Amir al-Mu’minin `Alee عليه السلام turned to al-Hassan and said, "O Aboo Muhammad, answer him." The narrator has said that al-Hassan answered his questions. The man then said,

"I testify that there is no lord besides Allah and I continue to testify to this fact. I testify that Muhammad صلّى الله عليه وآله is the Messenger of Allah and I continue to testify to this fact I testify that you are the executor of the will of the Messenger of Allah and that you are the in charge of this task ((Leadership with Divine Authority) with His authorization." He pointed out to Amir al-Mu’minin عليه السلام with his hand. He then said, "I continue to testify to this fact." "I testify that you are the executor of his (Amir al-Mu’minin’s عليه السلام will and the in charge of this task ((Leadership with Divine Authority) by His authorization after him (Amir alMu’minin عليه السلام " He pointed out with his hand to al-Hassan عليه السلام. Then He then said, "I continue to testify to this fact."

"I testify that al-Husayn ibn `Alee عليه السلام will be the executor of the will of his brother and the in charge of this task ((Leadership with Divine Authority) with His authorization after him. 

"I testify in support of `Alee ibn al-Husayn عليه السلام that he will be the in charge of the task of al-Husayn after him.

"I testify that Muhammad ibn `Alee will be the in charge of the task of `Alee ibn al-Husayn عليه السلام after him.

"I testify that Ja‘far ibn Muhammad عليه السلام will be the in charge of the task of Muhammad ibn `Alee عليه السلام.

"I testify that Moosa will be the in charge of the task of Ja‘far ibn Muhammad after him.

"I testify that `Alee ibn Moosa will be the in charge of the task of Moosa ibn Ja‘far عليه السلام.

"I testify that Muhammad ibn `Alee عليه السلام will be the in charge of the task of `Alee ibn Moosa عليه السلام after him.

"I testify that `Alee ibn Muhammad will be the in charge of the task of Muhammad ibn `Alee عليه السلام after him.

"I testify that al-Hassan ibn `Alee عليه السلام will be the in charge of the task of `Alee ibn Muhammad عليه السلام after him.

"I testify in support of a man from the children of al-Hassan who will not be mentioned by his Kunya (father or son of so and so) or his name until he will rise with Divine authority to fill the earth with justice after being filled with injustice."
I offer you my greeting of peace O Amir al-Mu’minin عليه السلام and praay to Allah to grant you blessings and holiness." He then stood up and left. Amir al-Mu’minin عليه السلام said, "O Aboo Muhammad follow him and see where went." Al-Hassan ibn `Alee عليه السلام went out to find out (and came back) and said, "As soon as he stepped out of the Mosque I could not figure out in which direction of the earth of Allah did he disappear. I returned to Amir al-Mu’minin عليه السلام and informed him." He said, "O Aboo Muhammad, do you know him?" I said, Allah, the Messenger of Allah and Amir al-Mu’minin عليه السلام know best." He said, "He was al-Khidr عليه السلام 

 

Al-Majlisi said this hadith is Sahih (Mirat Al-Uqool, vol. 6, pg. 203)

[SunniBrother 200]

45 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Quite the generalization.

Kitab al-Kafi Volume one Page 525-526

عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ الْبَرْقِيِّ عَنْ أَبِي هَاشِمٍ دَاوُدَ بْنِ الْقَاسِمِ الْجَعْفَرِيِّ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ الثَّانِي ع قَالَ أَقْبَلَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ع وَ مَعَهُ الْحَسَنُ بْنُ عَلِيٍّ ع وَ هُوَ مُتَّكِئٌ عَلَى يَدِ سَلْمَانَ فَدَخَلَ الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ فَجَلَسَ إِذْ أَقْبَلَ رَجُلٌ حَسَنُ الْهَيْئَةِ وَ اللِّبَاسِ فَسَلَّمَ عَلَى أَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ فَرَدَّ عَلَيْهِ السَّلَامَ فَجَلَسَ ثُمَّ قَالَ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَسْأَلُكَ عَنْ ثَلَاثِ مَسَائِلَ إِنْ أَخْبَرْتَنِي بِهِنَّ عَلِمْتُ أَنَّ الْقَوْمَ رَكِبُوا مِنْ أَمْرِكَ مَا قُضِيَ عَلَيْهِمْ وَ أَنْ لَيْسُوا بِمَأْمُونِينَ فِي دُنْيَاهُمْ وَ آخِرَتِهِمْ وَ إِنْ تَكُنِ الْأُخْرَى عَلِمْتُ أَنَّكَ وَ هُمْ شَرَعٌ سَوَاءٌ فَقَالَ لَهُ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ع سَلْنِي عَمَّا بَدَا لَكَ قَالَ أَخْبِرْنِي عَنِ الرَّجُلِ إِذَا نَامَ أَيْنَ تَذْهَبُ رُوحُهُ وَ عَنِ الرَّجُلِ كَيْفَ يَذْكُرُ وَ يَنْسَى وَ عَنِ الرَّجُلِ كَيْفَ يُشْبِهُ وَلَدُهُ الْأَعْمَامَ وَ الْأَخْوَالَ فَالْتَفَتَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ع إِلَى الْحَسَنِ فَقَالَ يَا أَبَا مُحَمَّدٍ أَجِبْهُ قَالَ فَأَجَابَهُ الْحَسَنُ ع فَقَالَ الرَّجُلُ أَشْهَدُ أَنْ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَ لَمْ أَزَلْ أَشْهَدُ بِهَا وَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً رَسُولُ اللَّهِ وَ لَمْ أَزَلْ أَشْهَدُ بِذَلِكَ وَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّكَ وَصِيُّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ص وَ الْقَائِمُ بِحُجَّتِهِ وَ أَشَارَ إِلَى أَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَ لَمْ أَزَلْ أَشْهَدُ بِهَا وَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّكَ وَصِيُّهُ وَ الْقَائِمُ بِحُجَّتِهِ وَ أَشَارَ إِلَى الْحَسَنِ ع وَ أَشْهَدُ أَنَّ الْحُسَيْنَ بْنَ عَلِيٍّ وَصِيُّ أَخِيهِ وَ الْقَائِمُ بِحُجَّتِهِ بَعْدَهُ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ أَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ الْحُسَيْنِ بَعْدَهُ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ أَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى جَعْفَرِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ بِأَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى مُوسَى أَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى عَلِيِّ بْنِ مُوسَى أَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ مُوسَى بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ أَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ عَلِيِّ بْنِ مُوسَى وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى عَلِيِّ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ بِأَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى الْحَسَنِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ بِأَنَّهُ الْقَائِمُ بِأَمْرِ عَلِيِّ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ أَشْهَدُ عَلَى رَجُلٍ مِنْ وُلْدِ الْحَسَنِ لَا يُكَنَّى وَ لَا يُسَمَّى حَتَّى يَظْهَرَ أَمْرُهُ فَيَمْلَأَهَا عَدْلًا كَمَا مُلِئَتْ جَوْراً وَ السَّلَامُ عَلَيْكَ يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَ رَحْمَةُ اللَّهِ وَ بَرَكَاتُهُ ثُمَّ قَامَ فَمَضَى فَقَالَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ يَا أَبَا مُحَمَّدٍ اتْبَعْهُ فَانْظُرْ أَيْنَ يَقْصِدُ فَخَرَجَ الْحَسَنُ بْنُ عَلِيٍّ ع فَقَالَ مَا كَانَ إِلَّا أَنْ وَضَعَ رِجْلَهُ خَارِجاً مِنَ الْمَسْجِدِ فَمَا دَرَيْتُ أَيْنَ أَخَذَ مِنْ أَرْضِ اللَّهِ فَرَجَعْتُ إِلَى أَمِيرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ع فَأَعْلَمْتُهُ فَقَالَ يَا أَبَا مُحَمَّدٍ أَ تَعْرِفُهُ قُلْتُ اللَّهُ وَ رَسُولُهُ وَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَعْلَمُ قَالَ هُوَ الْخَضِرُ ع 

Aboo Ja`far Al-Thaanee (Imaam Al-Taqee Al-Jawaad) said: "Once Amir al-Mu’minin `Alee عليه السلام came with al-Hassan and al-Husayn and he was holding the hand of Salman for support. He entered the sacred Mosque in Makka and sat down. Then a good looking and well dressed man came. He offered the greeting of peace to Amir al-Mu’minin `Alee عليه السلام who answered his greetings likewise and he sat down. He then said, "I will ask you three questions. If you would answer them I will acknowledge that the people who have acted against you in the matters of leadership after the Holy Prophet (s.a) they have acted against their own selves. Their actions have taken away peace from them in this world as well in the next life. If it would be otherwise, (you can answer) then you and those people will be the same." Amir al-Mu’minin`Alee عليه السلام said, "Ask whatever you would like." He said, "Tell about the man who sleeps. Where does his spirit go?" Tell about the man, how he remembers and forgets? Tell me about the man how do his children become similar to the aunts and uncles?" Amir al-Mu’minin `Alee عليه السلام turned to al-Hassan and said, "O Aboo Muhammad, answer him." The narrator has said that al-Hassan answered his questions. The man then said,

"I testify that there is no lord besides Allah and I continue to testify to this fact. I testify that Muhammad صلّى الله عليه وآله is the Messenger of Allah and I continue to testify to this fact I testify that you are the executor of the will of the Messenger of Allah and that you are the in charge of this task ((Leadership with Divine Authority) with His authorization." He pointed out to Amir al-Mu’minin عليه السلام with his hand. He then said, "I continue to testify to this fact." "I testify that you are the executor of his (Amir al-Mu’minin’s عليه السلام will and the in charge of this task ((Leadership with Divine Authority) by His authorization after him (Amir alMu’minin عليه السلام " He pointed out with his hand to al-Hassan عليه السلام. Then He then said, "I continue to testify to this fact."

"I testify that al-Husayn ibn `Alee عليه السلام will be the executor of the will of his brother and the in charge of this task ((Leadership with Divine Authority) with His authorization after him. 

"I testify in support of `Alee ibn al-Husayn عليه السلام that he will be the in charge of the task of al-Husayn after him.

"I testify that Muhammad ibn `Alee will be the in charge of the task of `Alee ibn al-Husayn عليه السلام after him.

"I testify that Ja‘far ibn Muhammad عليه السلام will be the in charge of the task of Muhammad ibn `Alee عليه السلام.

"I testify that Moosa will be the in charge of the task of Ja‘far ibn Muhammad after him.

"I testify that `Alee ibn Moosa will be the in charge of the task of Moosa ibn Ja‘far عليه السلام.

"I testify that Muhammad ibn `Alee عليه السلام will be the in charge of the task of `Alee ibn Moosa عليه السلام after him.

"I testify that `Alee ibn Muhammad will be the in charge of the task of Muhammad ibn `Alee عليه السلام after him.

"I testify that al-Hassan ibn `Alee عليه السلام will be the in charge of the task of `Alee ibn Muhammad عليه السلام after him.

"I testify in support of a man from the children of al-Hassan who will not be mentioned by his Kunya (father or son of so and so) or his name until he will rise with Divine authority to fill the earth with justice after being filled with injustice."
I offer you my greeting of peace O Amir al-Mu’minin عليه السلام and praay to Allah to grant you blessings and holiness." He then stood up and left. Amir al-Mu’minin عليه السلام said, "O Aboo Muhammad follow him and see where went." Al-Hassan ibn `Alee عليه السلام went out to find out (and came back) and said, "As soon as he stepped out of the Mosque I could not figure out in which direction of the earth of Allah did he disappear. I returned to Amir al-Mu’minin عليه السلام and informed him." He said, "O Aboo Muhammad, do you know him?" I said, Allah, the Messenger of Allah and Amir al-Mu’minin عليه السلام know best." He said, "He was al-Khidr عليه السلام 

 

Al-Majlisi said this hadith is Sahih (Mirat Al-Uqool, vol. 6, pg. 203)

I don't accept chainless hadiths

[S.M.H.A. 1,786]

Need to learn to recognize Distractions/deflections. The real issue is not Unity.

As mentioned in this post on  Page 4: 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235006908-sunnis-and-shias-can-we-just-unite/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-3097753

 

 

[Waseem162 582]

4 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

I know unity is stressed by many scholars. But you didn't answer what I ask you. You think that unity with sunnis will make Imam Zamana (atfs) to reappear. But this is an empty claim and you failed to support it with evidences (ahadith in this case). 

There are many conditions and this is one of them as per the Global situations. Its upto you to believe it or not. More of the Marajes do believe in this and stress upon this. Somethings are learned from History of Islam. Its not necessary that a hadith is present for it.

[Waseem162 582]

4 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

Imam Ali (May Allah ennoble his face)never insulted or used foul language.

Many people just take "ONE" hadith which is not taken by most of our scholars. They don't see how Imams lived their life. These are brainwashed people and deviants like Yasir al Habib are brainwashing them.

When that poor guy Yasir was called for a debate in Iran, he refused to attend back in 2013.

[Waseem162 582]

3 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

I think the verse which says " dont curse" و لا تسبوا is very clear and easy to understand. Shias dont need to insult their enemies because they have enough strong evidence to prove their faith. Insulting is immoral and unIslamic and it is what weak illogical people choose to do.

Exactly Sister. These Cursing Machines are destroying the face of Shiism and Islam.

[Waseem162 582]

2 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Al-Majlisi (ra) says the hadith is Sahih (Mirat al-Uqool, Volume 11, Page 77)

Sayed al-Khoei (ra) also says:

Misbah al Fuqaha Volume 2 Page 11:  It has been proven in the narrations and Ziyarat and supplications that it is permissible to curse the ones who oppose us, and that it is obligatory to disown them, and increase their insults, and accuse them, and slander them, meaning to curse them because they are from the people of innovation and doubt. 

Learn from Imams and Ziyarats. They never Ever openly cursed like you people do. They were the light of Unity. What on this earth has happened to you all??!!

[Waseem162 582]

2 hours ago, Hasani Samnani said:

Here we go again. Because of unfortunately misguided thoughts and assumptions, the discussion/conversation has descended into name calling and insults. 

Shias who readily insult, curse and malign others are unfortunately the most cowardly of Our Shia. Ask them to defend innocent Shia being slaughtered by wahabis in Parichinar, Yemen, Syria or Iraq and they have the most convenient excuses. They personify the arrogance of Shaytan towards Adam because of self righteous over inflation of their egos. Humility is a term not native to their vocabulary.

Akhlaq, manners, respect, controlling anger, showing others the errors of their ways thru peace and kindness, these are the true legacies of Our Imams.

By all means my dear brothers demonstrate your True Nobilty thru Ahlul Bayt like actions, OR alternatively make the Ziosaudis happy and become Shaytan like and show how humans can be described in Sura AT Teen :SUMA RADADNAHO AS FALA SAFEY LEEEN. 

Brother I must say, Where ever on this earth you'l find the following of the deviant Yasir al Habib and other Wahhabi Deviants then you'll find nothing but air filled with insults, curses and Hadiths proving it. These people are the True upholder of Islam (They think so). But in reality they are the same people who are chopping Islam into pieces. Allah will deal with them inshAllah.

[SunniBrother 200]

How can there be unity with TWELVERS Shias? When they call every non-Twelver Muslim a Kaffir

Taken from Awail Al Maqalat:

Chapter 6

 

 

6- القول في تسمية جاحدي الإمامة و منكري ما أوجب الله تعالى للأئمة من فرض الطاعة

 

6 – Doctrine regarding the naming of someone who denies the Imamate and rejects what Allah تعالى has obligated for the Umma of the imperative of obedience

 

و اتفقت الإمامية على أن من أنكر إمامة أحد الأئمة و جحد ما أوجبه الله تعالى من فرض الطاعة فهو كافر ضال مستحق للخلود في النار و أجمعت المعتزلة على خلاف ذلك و أنكروا كفر من ذكرناه و حكموا لبعضهم بالفسق خاصة و لبعضهم بما دون الفسق من العصيان .

 

The Imamiyya agree that whoever denies the Imamate of one of the Imams and rejects what Allah تعالى has obligated him of the imperative of obedience, then he is a kafir, astray, deserving of eternity in the Fire.
 

[Waseem162 582]

4 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

How can there be unity with TWELVERS Shias? When they call every non-Twelver Muslim a Kaffir

Taken from Awail Al Maqalat:

Chapter 6

 

 

6- القول في تسمية جاحدي الإمامة و منكري ما أوجب الله تعالى للأئمة من فرض الطاعة

 

6 – Doctrine regarding the naming of someone who denies the Imamate and rejects what Allah تعالى has obligated for the Umma of the imperative of obedience

 

و اتفقت الإمامية على أن من أنكر إمامة أحد الأئمة و جحد ما أوجبه الله تعالى من فرض الطاعة فهو كافر ضال مستحق للخلود في النار و أجمعت المعتزلة على خلاف ذلك و أنكروا كفر من ذكرناه و حكموا لبعضهم بالفسق خاصة و لبعضهم بما دون الفسق من العصيان .

 

The Imamiyya agree that whoever denies the Imamate of one of the Imams and rejects what Allah تعالى has obligated him of the imperative of obedience, then he is a kafir, astray, deserving of eternity in the Fire.
 

This is not my Aqeedah and not the aqeedah of 99% of Follower of 12ver school of thought.

One more thing I'll again repeat brother. On Shiachat you can't just win for unity. Lets work in real life to make this possible as much as we can. Here people will come up with vague answers trying to justify what thet're doing is right rather to acknowledge their mistakes.

[Islandsandmirrors 3,240]

3 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

The verse is addressing Kaffirs. Only a follower of Ibn Muljam will use that verse on Muslims. Are you calling me a Kaffir?

I'm sorry to hear that someone has implied what you are not. Do you believe in Islam? If so, you are not a kaffar. And people who say you are are just talking out of their behinds. 

[SunniBrother 200]

18 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

This is not my Aqeedah and not the aqeedah of 99% of Follower of 12ver school of thought.

One more thing I'll again repeat brother. On Shiachat you can't just win for unity. Lets work in real life to make this possible as much as we can. Here people will come up with vague answers trying to justify what thet're doing is right rather to acknowledge their mistakes.

You need to address the Akhbaris from the Shia community. I am okay with Usulis but the crazy Akhbaris are causing fitnah. Even Memri Tv caught a glimpse in the rise of Shia Wahhabis.

Edited November 19, 2017 by SunniBrother

[Islandsandmirrors 3,240]

A clarification on the hadith on whoever rejects imamate, @SunniBrother

That hadith is related to those who understand that Imamate is the truth, but reject it willingly and out of sheer stubbornness. This hadith does not refer to those who are

A. Ignorant of the truth

B. Those who are confused about the position and status of Imamate

C. Who do not have the full information regarding the importance and the role of Imamate

D. Those who wish to seek the truth but have not found it yet. 

and etc. 

[SunniBrother 200]

Akhbaris like Yasser Al Habib and their like.

[Waseem162 582]

11 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

You need to address the Akhbaris from the Shia community. I am okay with Usulis but the crazy Akhbaris are causing fitnah. Even Memri Tv caught a glimpse in the rise of Shia Wahhabis.

Akhbaris are Jaahils. They are disowned by our entire community. Clearly stating , they are out of bounds to be considered as the follower of 12ver school of thought.