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Tawheed Was It Understood ?

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(salam)

This is a fundamental topic that you have raised. The events that occurred around the Prophet's [pbuh] life and what followed indicate that Tawheed was not understood at all by the Caliphs and certain companions. In fact, in my signature is a Dua' narrated by one of the Imams that say O'God make yourself known to me in order that I know your Prophet and then in order to know your Hujja. Their failure to comply and submit to the authority of Imam Ali is testament to not knowing God properly.

Incidents like the Calamity of Thursday also give proof to this where they clearly indicated how they did not truly understand Prophethood and did not submit to him indicates once again a failure in truly knowing God.

Furthermore, the rise of theological schools like the Ash'arites where they believed in the separation of attributes from essence, in Jabr (absolute predestination) and other matters was as a natural result from the drive away from the pure fountain of knowledge that is the AhlulBayt as no others had solved these theological issues in fundamental matters of Tawhid. The case of the Mu'tazilites is also as a similar result from not resorting to the AhlulBayt for the answers to their aqeeda. One must of course not underplay the influence of Banu Umayya and their propaganda that first banned ahadith from being distributed for a long period of time and then began adding thousands upon thousands of false ahadith to completely change the beliefs of Muslims.

But yes, the contribution of certain companions to key issues in aqaid is very minimal.

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(salam)

This is a fundamental topic that you have raised. The events that occurred around the Prophet's [pbuh] life and what followed indicate that Tawheed was not understood at all by the Caliphs and certain companions. In fact, in my signature is a Dua' narrated by one of the Imams that say O'God make yourself known to me in order that I know your Prophet and then in order to know your Hujja. Their failure to comply and submit to the authority of Imam Ali is testament to not knowing God properly.

Incidents like the Calamity of Thursday also give proof to this where they clearly indicated how they did not truly understand Prophethood and did not submit to him indicates once again a failure in truly knowing God.

Furthermore, the rise of theological schools like the Ash'arites where they believed in the separation of attributes from essence, in Jabr (absolute predestination) and other matters was as a natural result from the drive away from the pure fountain of knowledge that is the AhlulBayt as no others had solved these theological issues in fundamental matters of Tawhid. The case of the Mu'tazilites is also as a similar result from not resorting to the AhlulBayt for the answers to their aqeeda. One must of course not underplay the influence of Banu Umayya and their propaganda that first banned ahadith from being distributed for a long period of time and then began adding thousands upon thousands of false ahadith to completely change the beliefs of Muslims.

But yes, the contribution of certain companions to key issues in aqaid is very minimal.

SALAAM

You have raised a interesting paradox, of these theological madhab's of Mu 'tazillah and Ash'ari's ….. Actually, Ash'aris school of thought are to - days the Ahl Sunnah, those brothers who have understanding Scholastic theology would know of Abu al Ashari who was the founder of Ahl Sunnah creed.

But for now, i would like to know what knowledge did the three caliphs have of tawheed? what sermons did they give on tawheed….

Edited by power

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People can prepare a better khutbah than this Sermon 185. I don't believe it was really the khutbah of Saiyidina Ali bin Abi Talib radiyallahu anhu.

If it's taken from Nahj-al-Balaghah then the author Razi has either compiled it from those who created it or it's his own creation.

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People can prepare a better khutbah than this Sermon 185. I don't believe it was really the khutbah of Saiyidina Ali bin Abi Talib radiyallahu anhu.

If it's taken from Nahj-al-Balaghah then the author Razi has either compiled it from those who created it or it's his own creation.

Why didn't they prepare it then? Is there any limit of grudge against Ali(as)?

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If this is the creation of Sayyid Razi, show us the creations of Abu Bakr and Umar that will put the above to shame :)

Abu Bakr and Umar radiyallahu anhum were not princes of words. They were kings of actions.

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Abu Bakr and Umar radiyallahu anhum were not princes of words. They were kings of actions.

Yes actions? Where were the actions in Badr o Uhad? Conquering lands on the basis of huge armies, and resources is not bravery, have you seen any such 'action' when Islam needed it most?

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Why didn't they prepare it then? Is there any limit of grudge against Ali(as)?

I'm not talking about Saiyidina Ali radiyallahu anhu.

You know all these books were written when all the eleven imams had passed away and the last imam was said to have gone in occultation.

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Yes actions? Where were the actions in Badr o Uhad? Conquering lands on the basis of huge armies, and resources is not bravery, have you seen any such 'action' when Islam needed it most?

We view them totally different from what shias do. You don't agree with us, we don't agree with you. There's nothing to debate on that.

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I'm not talking about Saiyidina Ali radiyallahu anhu.

You know all these books were written when all the eleven imams had passed away and the last imam was said to have gone in occultation.

So??? Even all the sunni Hadeeth books were compiled much time after the Prophet(saww), in fact four fiqh were established afterwards, so reject them too.

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Tell us, what their contribution was towards knowledge and the understanding of tauheed :)

1. There was no civil war after the demise of the Prophet s.a.w, the way Ali ra couldn't handle the situation after the martyrdom of Uthman ra.

2. People didn't revert to idolatry after Muhammad s.a.w. Abu Bakr ra kept the flag of tauheed hoisted high.

3. Abu Bakr ra believed in Allah, so he sent the army under Usamah bin Zaid ra for Jihad though those were very crucial days of Islam after the demise of the Prophet s.a.w.

4. Those who rejected the Zakat (article of faith), were treated well by Abu Bakr ra.

5. Jihad in the cause of Allah was on under Saiyidina Abu Bakr ra.

6. And only this much about Umar ra that, because of him Persians (Iranians) today know what Allah and Muhammad are. Or else they would be worshipping fire even today and the marja would be a majoosi in Tehran.

So??? Even all the sunni Hadeeth books were compiled much time after the Prophet(saww), in fact four fiqh were established afterwards, so reject them too.

If you talk about shia hadith work, then sunni hadith is matchless. Because shias had no idea what hadith science is. They wrote their hadith books a couple of centuries after sunnis had already compiled their books.

First acknowledged book of hadith is Muwatta of Imam Malik which was compiled around 100 years after the Prophet s.a.w.

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Abu Bakr and Umar radiyallahu anhum were not princes of words. They were kings of actions.

This is out right Fallacy, these so called king's did not participate in any of the wars themselves

Lets start with Abu Bakr how many wars did he participate in when he was in power?????

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So basically you have no sermons of your Caliphs? No wonder Abul Hassan Ashari had to make it all up afterwards lol

While Imam Ali (as) was engaged in multiple civil wars he managed to leave a heritage of knowledge.

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This is out right Fallacy, these so called king's did not participate in any of the wars themselves

Lets start with Abu Bakr how many wars did he participate in when he was in power?????

He was the chief executive and the commander in chief of the Muslims. He was based in the capital of Islamic Khilafah.

By the way how many provinces Ali ra conquered in the life of Prophet s.a.w?

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Brothers and Sister,

I know its so tempting to try and defend everything silly he says, but its a technique he uses when he doesnt want to answer the question at hand.

Please press him to answer the OP, what have the Caliphs left of sermons on tauheed.

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So basically you have no sermons of your Caliphs? No wonder Abul Hassan Ashari had to make it all up afterwards lol

While Imam Ali (as) was engaged in multiple civil wars he managed to leave a heritage of knowledge.

Last time I checked even his sahifa couldn't reach people. It was passed down to the later imams and now is with Imam Al-Mahdi.

Now it's another matter that some Persians claimed they got from a 'reliable' but fallible chain.

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He was the chief executive and the commander in chief of the Muslims. He was based in the capital of Islamic Khilafah.

By the way how many provinces Ali ra conquered in the life of Prophet s.a.w?

Why answer question with a question?

HOW MANY WARS DID ABU BAKR PARTICIPATED WHEN HE WAS IN POWER

You are the one who stated they were the king of action, so show us.

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Please press him to answer the OP, what have the Caliphs left of sermons on tauheed.

Let me press all people to answer this question:

What books of hadith (on Tauheed) did Imam Ali write or leave for his shias?

Because that would save Persians like Razi and Koleni from claiming they got hadiths of the Imams.

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1. There was no civil war after the demise of the Prophet s.a.w, the way Ali ra couldn't handle the situation after the martyrdom of Uthman ra.

If you talk about shia hadith work, then sunni hadith is matchless. Because shias had no idea what hadith science is. They wrote their hadith books a couple of centuries after sunnis had already compiled their books.

First acknowledged book of hadith is Muwatta of Imam Malik which was compiled around 100 years after the Prophet s.a.w.

Whats the fault of Ali(as) if He had to rule over the most mischievous and treacherous people in the world. Again you bring the majority argument, when Prophet(saww) have predicted the fate of majority(72 sects) of Islam already. So it doesn't matter that after declining the authority of God, how many lands they conquered, or how many were converted.

Alhamdulillah, our maraaji were never to be majoos, most of them are Syeds, and their ancestors were not among those who converted but those who migrated from Arabia.

Shia hadeeth work is not filled with narrations which non muslims can take help from to mock at our Prophet(saww). Shias Hadeeths books are intellectually stimulating, and our early scholars had done lot of work on Hadeeth science as well.

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Why answer question with a question?

HOW MANY WARS DID ABU BAKR PARTICIPATED WHEN HE WAS IN POWER

You are the one who stated they were the king of action, so show us.

Sorry but your question was...

that's why I replied by making another question.

Even the Prophet of Islam didn't head each and every military campaigns.

Your first 3 imams fought wars, what about the rest of the 8?

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What books of hadith (on Tauheed) did Imam Ali write or leave for his shias?

Because that would save Persians like Razi and Koleni from claiming they got hadiths of the Imams.

None of the Prophets wrote even, so? Others compile even the Quranic verses were compiled. But what our Imam(as) said we received that. Why He had to write? which would have been destroyed or changed in those times.

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Aslamalaykum,

@Power

So what i request from our Sunni brethren's, is to produce at least 1 Khutbah from each caliph.

I have at least two which are related to tawhid and are uttered by the first 2 caliphs and both are absurd statements, the first one when Umar said "this is the will of Allah" when the companions were fleeing. When has running away from battles become the will of Allah?

The following is by Umar ibn Khattab when He s

ÈóÇ ÞóÊóÇÏóÉó¡ ÞóÇáó: áóãóøÇ ßóÇäóíóæúãó Íõäóíúäò äóÙóÑúÊõ Åöáóì ÑóÌõáò ãöäó ÇáãõÓúáöãöíäó íõÞóÇÊöáõ ÑóÌõáðÇ ãöäóÇáãõÔúÑößöíäó¡ æóÂÎóÑõ ãöäó ÇáãõÔúÑößöíäó íóÎúÊöáõåõ ãöäú æóÑóÇÆöåö áöíóÞúÊõáóåõ¡ÝóÃóÓúÑóÚúÊõ Åöáóì ÇáóøÐöí íóÎúÊöáõåõ¡ ÝóÑóÝóÚó íóÏóåõ áöíóÖúÑöÈóäöí æóÃóÖúÑöÈõíóÏóåõ ÝóÞóØóÚúÊõåóÇ¡ Ëõãóø ÃóÎóÐóäöí ÝóÖóãóøäöí ÖóãðøÇ ÔóÏöíÏðÇ¡ ÍóÊóøì ÊóÎóæóøÝúÊõ¡Ëõãóø ÊóÑóßó¡ ÝóÊóÍóáóøáó¡ æóÏóÝóÚúÊõåõ Ëõãóø ÞóÊóáúÊõåõ¡ æóÇäúåóÒóãó ÇáãõÓúáöãõæäóæóÇäúåóÒóãúÊõ ãóÚóåõãú¡ ÝóÅöÐóÇ ÈöÚõãóÑó Èúäö ÇáÎóØóøÇÈö Ýöí ÇáäóøÇÓö¡ ÝóÞõáúÊõáóåõ: ãóÇ ÔóÃúäõ ÇáäóøÇÓö¿ ÞóÇáó: ÃóãúÑõ Çááóøåö

Narrated Abu Qatada: We set out in the company of Allah's Apostle on the day (of the battle) of Hunain. When we faced the enemy, the Muslims retreated and I saw a pagan throwing himself over a Muslim. I turned around and came upon him from behind and hit him on the shoulder with the sword He (i.e. the pagan) came towards me and seized me so violently that I felt as if it were death itself, but death overtook him and he released me. I followed 'Umar bin Al Khattab and asked (him), "What is wrong with the people(fleeing)?" He replied, "This is the Will of Allah," After the people returned, the Prophet sat and said, "Anyone who has killed an enemy and has a proof of that, will posses his spoils." [sahih al-Bukhari, Book 53, Hadith 370

Second one was by Abu Bakr

Abu Bakr, the new khalifa, delivered his inaugural speech. After thanking God and praising Him, he said:

"O Muslims! those of you who worshipped Mohammed, let them know that he is dead; but those of you who worshipped God, let them know that He is Alive, and will never die.

What a blunder, The Holy Prophet s.a.w.w preached Tawhid for 23 years and after all that tremendous effort, they started worshipping him instead of worshipping God, then his whole mission as a prophet, must be adjudged a fiasco.

Edited by muslimunity1

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Whats the fault of Ali(as) if He had to rule over the most mischievous and treacherous people in the world.

Suppose the people were the most mischievous and treacherous, weren't they ruled by Ameer Muawiyah successfully?

Alhamdulillah, our maraaji were never to be majoos, most of them are Syeds, and their ancestors were not among those who converted but those who migrated from Arabia.

Weren't many Imams Half-Persians, children of Persian mothers or mothers from mixed-race?

Shia hadeeth work is not filled with narrations which non muslims can take help from to mock at our Prophet(saww). Shias Hadeeths books are intellectually stimulating, and our early scholars had done lot of work on Hadeeth science as well.

If I discuss the shia hadith work in a thread, you will change your views, sis.

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Let me press all people to answer this question:

What books of hadith (on Tauheed) did Imam Ali write or leave for his shias?

Because that would save Persians like Razi and Koleni from claiming they got hadiths of the Imams.

We are not asking for a book, we are asking for a verbal narration lol

We understand now that Abu Bakr and Umar, though sitting on the seat of the Prophet (saaw), had nothing to say on the first pillar of Islam.

Ya Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, All Praise is to You Who honored us with the Wilayat of Ali ibn Abi Talib (as). Even in the midst of wars and sedition, he constantly reminded us of You and guided us to You.

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Sorry but your question was...

that's why I replied by making another question.

Even the Prophet of Islam didn't head each and every military campaigns.

Your first 3 imams fought wars, what about the rest of the 8?

Wars that Abu Bakr fought himself=0 Not much of king of action was he

Okay, how about Umar, how many wars did he participate in????

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None of the Prophets wrote even, so? Others compile even the Quranic verses were compiled. But what our Imam(as) said we received that. Why He had to write? which would have been destroyed or changed in those times.

Who told the Persians to write the hadiths of Imams by the way?

Did they not have Imams with them?

What about the Sunnah of Allah that no people can live without an Imam?

Why should a person trust a Persian like Razi, Koleni when everyone knows that they are not Infallibles?

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