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Miladiator

Downloading Microsoft Office

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About a year ago I downloaded Microsoft Office for free (for those of you who don't know, it costs a hell of a lot of money). Now I am a little concerned though, having not paid for something is just like stealing it, and considering how all of my university work is done using Microsoft Office, is it fair to to say ALL the work I have done in the past (and will do in the future) using the downloaded Microsoft Office would be haraam?

I understand I may just be being a little over the top but I thought I should ask this question anyway, just to be sure.

Thanks for any replies :)

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(salam)

give the same amount of money you were supposed to pay to sadaqa (charity) or to orphans .

Deduct the amount of money the USA stole from Iran, and deduct the compensation owed for the murder of millions of Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, then deduct the amount of money required to treat the Iraqi orphans, then deduct the money needed for the treatment of Iraqi children born with birth defects, deduct the money owed as componsation for the shooting down of the Iranian airliner in the 80's, etc, etc, etc.

In the end you will find that the US owes you money.

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Deduct the amount of money the USA stole from Iran, and deduct the compensation owed for the murder of millions of Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, then deduct the amount of money required to treat the Iraqi orphans, then deduct the money needed for the treatment of Iraqi children born with birth defects, deduct the money owed as componsation for the shooting down of the Iranian airliner in the 80's, etc, etc, etc.

In the end you will find that the US owes you money.

..yes i agree that US owes us money, they also owe money to all the orphans and the poor people around me ..

that's why its good to donate money to orphans or poor people that are in need ..very mustahab if not wajib

Edited by -Enlightened

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hahah yes its fine. Dont Worry! :)

U hve problem with MS but what about yrly tax that u give to support Israel? Where is that worry? U slept comfortably while ur gov't destroyed IRaq isn't that harram? i think thats enough for now.

Edited by Aftahb

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Wrong is usually wrong but this isn't like you're stealing bubble gum at the liquor store.

Some things truly are expensive and unfortunately some of them are necessary for our lives.

I guess if you're a student and you're really low on income then this is a small sin.

But if you're the type of person that sees something that you can easily afford like a piece of chocolate or something and then steal that, that's obviously worse.

Titumir's response would be more applicable when it comes to govt. aid i.e. Algerian guy takes advantage of France's social system as reprisal for France destroying his country.

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I can't seem to quote more than one reply at once so I'll just reply to your replies individually:

-JSAli: He isn't answering his phone :P

-Enlightened: Like I said above, Microsoft Office is really expensive, in fact it would cost me about £200 if I'm not mistaken (I would be running it on a Mac which is why the cost is so high) and to be honest, that's not a sum of money I'm happy to part. The problem is i really NEED microsoft word for my university work, then again I guess you could say that "that's life" :(

-titumir, 570 & Aftahb: I don't disagree with what you say, but two wrongs don't make a right.

-Chicken_Nugget: To be honest I actually got it from a friend who probably downloaded it (probably from Piratebay) or he burned it from a legitimate disc. When I said "I downloaded it" I basically meant I illegally obtained it, i just didn't see the point in mentioning I obtained it from a friend, plus it would make the question more straightforward :)

-ShiaBen: To be honest I can afford it, its just that, I'm practically throwing money away by doing this, but having said that, if it is a sin that surely that would beg the question of whether any money I make as a result of the degree I may get because of my work may be haraam.

I know I may be blowing things way out of proportion lol but like I say, I'd rather be safe then sorry...

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(salam)

Good question about Microsoft Office. At the time of purchasing a laptop, I requested the sales person to give me a discount or a microsoft office for free, he ended up giving me the microsoft office. So I guess I was lucky then.

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Deduct the amount of money the USA stole from Iran, and deduct the compensation owed for the murder of millions of Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, then deduct the amount of money required to treat the Iraqi orphans, then deduct the money needed for the treatment of Iraqi children born with birth defects, deduct the money owed as componsation for the shooting down of the Iranian airliner in the 80's, etc, etc, etc.

In the end you will find that the US owes you money.

Why who said its permissible to steal from USA?

Wrong is usually wrong but this isn't like you're stealing bubble gum at the liquor store.

Some things truly are expensive and unfortunately some of them are necessary for our lives.

I guess if you're a student and you're really low on income then this is a small sin.

So you are saying a homeless man can go steal food from the supermarket to eat becayse he cant afford it?

Edited by RoAcHy

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For all those who think its wrong to steal from the biggest thieves (US & UK)

A country like US/uk where everything is corrupt and stolen from others for example oil from Iraq, gold from india; its clearly fair!

Where was ur sharia when millions were killed by brit/states in iraq?

Leavin 2 million orphans, 1.5 million widows and all youth in darkness! :(

when imam comes to ur grave show him how much u paid for MS. Im sure he will be truly happy.

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For all those who think its wrong to steal from the biggest thieves (US & UK)

A country like US/uk where everything is corrupt and stolen from others for example oil from Iraq, gold from india; its clearly fair!

Where was ur sharia when millions were killed by brit/states in iraq?

Leavin 2 million orphans, 1.5 million widows and all youth in darkness! :(

when imam comes to ur grave show him how much u paid for MS. Im sure he will be truly happy.

Did you come up with that fatwa Ayatollah Aftahb?

æóáÇó ÊóÞõæáõæÇ áöãóÇ ÊóÕöÝõ ÃóáúÓöäóÊõßõãõ ÇáúßóÐöÈó åóÐóÇ ÍóáÇóáñ æóåóÐóÇ ÍóÑóÇãñ áöøÊóÝúÊóÑõæÇ Úóáóì Çááåö ÇáúßóÐöÈó Åöäóø ÇáóøÐöíäó íóÝúÊóÑõæäó Úóáóì Çááåö ÇáúßóÐöÈó áÇó íõÝúáöÍõæäó * ãóÊóÇÚñ Þóáöíáñ æóáóåõãú ÚóÐóÇÈñ Ãóáöíãñ ) ÇáäÍá/116-117.

And do not say about what your tongues assert of untruth, "This is lawful and this is unlawful," to invent falsehood about Allah . Indeed, those who invent falsehood about Allah will not succeed. [it is but] a brief enjoyment, and they will have a painful punishment. [Annahl 116-117]

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"The USA" doesn't make Office. A private company called MS does.

Wow, 200 pounds, eh? 200 pounds for a program that enables you to do just about everything for school for 4 years? What a rip off! ;)

btw, there's an educational version, and the campus computer store usually has software for a discount.

Those who want to justify stealing remind me of the suicide bomber types. In the end, the person wants to do wrong, the heart is rotten, but they are hypocrites, so they seek a clean justification to drape over the act and redeem it. May we be far from this.

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"The USA" doesn't make Office. A private company called MS does.

Wow, 200 pounds, eh? 200 pounds for a program that enables you to do just about everything for school for 4 years? What a rip off! ;)

btw, there's an educational version, and the campus computer store usually has software for a discount.

Those who want to justify stealing remind me of the suicide bomber types. In the end, the person wants to do wrong, the heart is rotten, but they are hypocrites, so they seek a clean justification to drape over the act and redeem it. May we be far from this.

Those who want to justify paying money to the enemy at war with Muslims, which kills Muslims every day, remind me of the Mir Jafar types. In the end, the person wants to betray his own nation, the heart is rotten, but they are hypocrites, so they seek a clean justification to drape over the act and redeem it. May we be far from this.

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Those who want to justify paying money to the enemy at war with Muslims, which kills Muslims every day, remind me of the Mir Jafar types. In the end, the person wants to betray his own nation, the heart is rotten, but they are hypocrites, so they seek a clean justification to drape over the act and redeem it. May we be far from this.

ÞÇá ÇáÇãÇã ÇáÕÇÏÞ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã : ãä ÇÝÊì ÈÛíÑ Úáã ÊÈæà ãÞÚÏå ãä ÇáäÇÑ

Imam Jaafar alSadeq (as) said: Who makes a fatwa with knowledge, has assumed his seat in hell

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Those who want to justify paying money to the enemy at war with Muslims, which kills Muslims every day, remind me of the Mir Jafar types. In the end, the person wants to betray his own nation, the heart is rotten, but they are hypocrites, so they seek a clean justification to drape over the act and redeem it. May we be far from this.

Sorry, Microsoft is at war with the Muslims? When did they declare war? I must have missed that.

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I think that this question is getting a little sidetracked, essentially what I want to know is if the money I make as a result of my degree would be haraam money as I've earned my degree through the use of an illegally obtained programme. Let's ignore what company/country make this programme.

And secondly, yh I understand how £200 is not a MASSIVE ask for a programme that will help me for many years but to be honest, it's not like this is the only programme I will have to download, or the only cost I have. I also spend about £200 a year on books, a few hundred pound on trips etc and I guess it's just a little frustrating how I have less and less money for myself.

Having said that if I have to pay for it, then I will. Like I said above, just because USA or England may steal doesn't justify me doing the same, but nevertheless I'd like to know as the idea of spending £200 then realising I didn't need to would also be frustrating.

Edited by Miladiator

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About a year ago I downloaded Microsoft Office for free (for those of you who don't know, it costs a hell of a lot of money). Now I am a little concerned though, having not paid for something is just like stealing it, and considering how all of my university work is done using Microsoft Office, is it fair to to say ALL the work I have done in the past (and will do in the future) using the downloaded Microsoft Office would be haraam?

I understand I may just be being a little over the top but I thought I should ask this question anyway, just to be sure.

Thanks for any replies :)

If you're worried about this small sin you can always use alternatives like open office which perform a similar function.

I live in the US, and am a Shi`a Muslim. For those who think by using pirated software from American companies they are sticking to "The Empire", say I started up my own company, would it be justified then for you to steal from me?

It would be fully justified and wajib if it was your company as you wished death and destruction to the people of Syria.

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Did you come up with that fatwa Ayatollah Aftahb?

æóáÇó ÊóÞõæáõæÇ áöãóÇ ÊóÕöÝõ ÃóáúÓöäóÊõßõãõ ÇáúßóÐöÈó åóÐóÇ ÍóáÇóáñ æóåóÐóÇ ÍóÑóÇãñ áöøÊóÝúÊóÑõæÇ Úóáóì Çááåö ÇáúßóÐöÈó Åöäóø ÇáóøÐöíäó íóÝúÊóÑõæäó Úóáóì Çááåö ÇáúßóÐöÈó áÇó íõÝúáöÍõæäó * ãóÊóÇÚñ Þóáöíáñ æóáóåõãú ÚóÐóÇÈñ Ãóáöíãñ ) ÇáäÍá/116-117.

And do not say about what your tongues assert of untruth, "This is lawful and this is unlawful," to invent falsehood about Allah . Indeed, those who invent falsehood about Allah will not succeed. [it is but] a brief enjoyment, and they will have a painful punishment. [Annahl 116-117]

^

And it doesn't matter whether ur a shia or sunni. If u work under US - U r indirectly Supporting Israel.

So all of us who live in US/ UK r in trouble!!!!

Working with Oppressor in itself is a major sin. I dont knw who and why ur defending ?

Edited by Aftahb

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Sorry, Microsoft is at war with the Muslims? When did they declare war? I must have missed that.

Sanctions on Iran, North Korea etc. by Microsoft indicate its taking a side on a political matter.

Had it not it would have been a different story.

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(salam)

Let's end the suspense .. here is the rule if your are following Ay Sistani:

Question :

Can I use cracked CD software?

Answer :

If someone else has cracked the software, you can use it but you are not allowed to copy or burn it into another compact disc.1

Question :

A lot of Islamic books and software have copyrights on them. What is the Islamic view of copyrights? If I photocopy a book or duplicate a CD with a copyright am I doing a sin?

Answer :

Copying or duplicating a book or software without their owner's permission is not permissible.2

Question :

What is the ruling on copying computer software, movies, audio CDs and other such things, which bear the wording “All Rights Reserved” or “Copyright”? Does this rule apply equally to Muslim made products and those made by non-Muslim individuals or companies?

Answer :Copyrights must be respected; it is not permissible to copy a software product, if it is against the law.

It's cheaper if you buy it on ebay (about 60-80dollars but pay attention to counterfeit) or online on MS's official website, with a good discount if you are student (office 2010 costs 85 dollars)

Edited by cendrillon

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I think that this question is getting a little sidetracked, essentially what I want to know is if the money I make as a result of my degree would be haraam money as I've earned my degree through the use of an illegally obtained programme. Let's ignore what company/country make this programme.

And secondly, yh I understand how £200 is not a MASSIVE ask for a programme that will help me for many years but to be honest, it's not like this is the only programme I will have to download, or the only cost I have. I also spend about £200 a year on books, a few hundred pound on trips etc and I guess it's just a little frustrating how I have less and less money for myself.

Having said that if I have to pay for it, then I will. Like I said above, just because USA or England may steal doesn't justify me doing the same, but nevertheless I'd like to know as the idea of spending £200 then realising I didn't need to would also be frustrating.

It is based on context that's why this thread has been smoking hot.

In your case/context, yes, it would haram for you, because you believe stealing (no matter what the context or situation is haram) therefore, stealing at any point in time for any reason, is haram. Therefore since this is your mentailty, yes it is haram, and you should probably purchase it since you're experiencing cognitive dissonance that's giving you a ton of stress and anxiety.

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ÞÇá ÇáÇãÇã ÇáÕÇÏÞ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã : ãä ÇÝÊì ÈÛíÑ Úáã ÊÈæà ãÞÚÏå ãä ÇáäÇÑ

Imam Jaafar alSadeq (as) said: Who makes a fatwa with knowledge, has assumed his seat in hell

Imam also said insulting your brother openly takes u to hell. the point is if u go on with hadith we can all dig out millions from our motabar books like kafi, kamil. abqatul al anwar, etc :)

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Sanctions on Iran, North Korea etc. by Microsoft indicate its taking a side on a political matter.

Had it not it would have been a different story.

What in the hell are you talking about?

Microsoft doesn't "put sanctions" on anybody. It's not a government, it's a private company.

US laws may forbid them from doing certain types of business with certain countries, but that's not "taking sides." That's just following the laws of their jurisdiction.

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What in the hell are you talking about?

Microsoft doesn't "put sanctions" on anybody. It's not a government, it's a private company.

US laws may forbid them from doing certain types of business with certain countries, but that's not "taking sides." That's just following the laws of their jurisdiction.

When u work under anyones restrictions it means u r their dog. Simple as that.

A free company doesnt give or take orders from no1. But since MS is a us based company. ITs neck has a collar of US/Israel.

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What in the hell are you talking about?

Microsoft doesn't "put sanctions" on anybody. It's not a government, it's a private company.

US laws may forbid them from doing certain types of business with certain countries, but that's not "taking sides." That's just following the laws of their jurisdiction.

Then why did Blizzard wait this long to follow U.S. law? It just decided to enforce sanctions a month ago.

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Some of you appear to justify stealing because you believe the actions of the US government are wrong. You can try and justify it by any means, but it still amounts to taking something that isn't yours without paying for it. And paying an equivalent amount to charity does not compensate the original owner of whatever was stolen for their loss. At best, it makes you feel better about committing a haram action.

There are free alternatives to Microsoft Office, such as OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org/) or GoogleDocs, that work quite well. Additionally, most schools and universities offer discounts on software such as Microsoft Office, and they also have computer labs where you can use such software for free.

If your children ask you one day if you ever stole anything, would you be able to truthfully tell them no? Or will you try and say how it is ok to steal sometimes?

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Some of you appear to justify stealing because you believe the actions of the US government are wrong. You can try and justify it by any means, but it still amounts to taking something that isn't yours without paying for it. And paying an equivalent amount to charity does not compensate the original owner of whatever was stolen for their loss. At best, it makes you feel better about committing a haram action.

There are free alternatives to Microsoft Office, such as OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org/) or GoogleDocs, that work quite well. Additionally, most schools and universities offer discounts on software such as Microsoft Office, and they also have computer labs where you can use such software for free.

If your children ask you one day if you ever stole anything, would you be able to truthfully tell them no? Or will you try and say how it is ok to steal sometimes?

1. I already use Linux and its associated software unless something runs only on Windows.

2. If you carefully read and analyze all the fatwas, rules, fiqh, etc. you might find everything is not so simple as: "copyright must be respected". You must take into account everything, including history, the actions and behaviour of Americans themselves when it came to respecting the copyrights of others, the American hostilities against Muslims, etc.

The US itself never respected copyright in its early years, it stole whatever it could from other countries. It was only when they started to create intellectual property themselves, that they started respecting copyrights and urging others to respect it.

Anyone who uses a pirated copy of MS Office is just doing what America did during its infant years. I cannot think you can blame them in all concience. A simple fatwa is too simplistic, because it does not take into account the entire story. Its like, "If someone steals cut his hand off" - but if a person stole because he was hungry and was too poor to afford food, you know he should be judged not guilty.

In the end the OP must weigh his decision between the alternatives:

1. Use a copy of MS Office without paying for its "license" - disobey a man made law made up by people who daily call for the murder of Muslims, the invasion of Muslim countries, the destruction of the Islamic nation, or

2. Provide money to an aggressive entity who has repeatedly called for the nuking of Mecca, and the extermination of all Muslims around the world, who have murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people throughout the world, whose only crime was not submitting to them, who will use the money to murder innocent Muslim women, children, etc.

I, for one, refuse to hide behind simple and stupid excuses like "its against the law", and choose to look at the larger consequences of my actions. This reminds me of the people who say that Imam Hussain (as) was wrong to rise up against Yazid because Yazid was a Caliph, the majority were with him, etc. Those who are in favour of providing money to an aggressive murderous country, share the same way of thinking. Obey the law, even if it means you will help to murder innocent people. Don't think of the consequences, just put your head down and obey the law. Yazidi thinking.

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To the brother who started the topic:

-contact your university to find out if they have a special student license. Sometimes, as a student, you can download and use office when you're connected to your university network.

-you could consider using office on the university computers

-you might want to try open office

To everybody else:

stealing is haram. I worry that some of you might steal big macs from McDonalds next time you go for hajj.

Wallahu A'lam

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