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In the Name of God بسم الله

Citizen Khan

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Has anyone watched this new Asian sitcom about a British Pakistani Muslim family on BBC1?

There's been a lot of complaints that it stereotypes Muslims and insults Islam - does it?

Is it really that offensive and racist that it merits all this controversy about it?

I find it not too original and not very funny either.

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Quite rightly people are suspicious when the BBC do anything regarding Muslims and Islam.

If Archbishop Desmond Tutu (not a raving Muslim jihadist) says that Tony Blair should be tried to war crimes, what about the news organisations that were so uncritical and uninvestigative of the crime, when it was being publicly planned?

Including the effects of sanctions (also about which there was little or no discussion, except for the notable work of John Pilger) there are 1 million Muslims dead as a result of all this.

It's wrong to think of the BBC just as a news and entertainment organisation. Propaganda permeates everything they do and Citizen Khan is just one example of the overlap.

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Thanks to everyone who shared their views – I suppose we can all agree to some degree that for a sitcom, the show ( from what we’ve seen of it so far) is just too bland and hopelessly dated to have any kind of cultural impact. So, in a way it’s an epic fail for the Beeb! I hope I am proved wrong.

As for a conspiracy theory regarding the conceptualizing of this sitcom – the BBC does seem to have a huge influence the world over and if they wished to propagate a secret agenda through a seemingly innocuous sitcom, well it could be easily done.

I wonder who the target audience for this sitcom are – the older or the newer generation of Asian Muslims born in the UK or perhaps the white middle-of-the-road folks whose opinion about the Muslims largely remains jaundiced due to ignorance.

So could this be the Beeb’s way of making the Muslim way of life sort of palatable and mainstream to these people?

What I find more depressing is the fact that the world appears to focus mostly on one aspect – why cannot we Muslims "learn to laugh at ourselves"? Do we really lack a sense of humour as they seem to believe?

Does anyone here believe that one sitcom of this kind would change anything at all!?

Oh, and here’s the second half of the first episode for those who’ve watched the first half on this thread; so sorry that I couldn’t fix the link the other day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxQXMoEYGoc

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Following on from my post above, it was clear from the odd episode that I watched that Citizen Khan had some Islamophobic storylines.

So this comes as an interesting piece of news. The person complaining of racism wrote storylines for Citizen Khan.

 

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4 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Following on from my post above, it was clear from the odd episode that I watched that Citizen Khan had some Islamophobic storylines.

So this comes as an interesting piece of news. The person complaining of racism wrote storylines for Citizen Khan.

 

Yes but in 2020 anything and everything is considered racism (and as Marbles pointed out in 2012 Muslims complain so much about everything that we can't be taken seriously and that has just gotten worse over the years) so his opinion can be easily dismissed.

As for the show, based on an episode that I saw I thought it was rubbish, Goodness Gracious Me was much better, and all in all the stereotypes were quite accurate. I'm sure that that show is also now considered racist but at the time there weren't any issues with it.

 

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3 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

I'm sure that that show is also now considered racist but at the time there weren't any issues with it.

It's ok for brown people to be racist against themselves though (apparently)

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7 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Yes but in 2020 anything and everything is considered racism

Agreed and British Muslims in particular seem to take this to another level, especially those who ally themselves with the left wing with a mutual agreement of opposing anything and everything that doesn't come from their camp (a typical example is the uproar over the announcement of additional covid restrictions on Thursday night, just before Eid. The left wing milked it to death and the muslims are facing the backlash simply because they were made out to be self entitled victims). 

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3 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

It's ok for brown people to be racist against themselves though (apparently)

I don't believe in selective standards. Everyone should have the same guidelines. If black people don't like being referred to with a certain word, they shouldn't do it themselves. If Asians like to laugh at certain stereotypes then they should be prepared to hear others laughing as well. 

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9 hours ago, Ali_Hussain said:

Yes but in 2020 anything and everything is considered racism (and as Marbles pointed out in 2012 Muslims complain so much about everything that we can't be taken seriously and that has just gotten worse over the years) so his opinion can be easily dismissed.

 

I don't think Muslims do complain as much as we could and certainly given the disproportionate level of hate directed at Muslims/Islam in the MSM.

Some of that percolates onto this site, such as the coverage of Pakistani grooming gangs in the north of England (something which Adil Ray has broadcast about). Evil as it was, there's certainly no equivalent coverage of Western pedophiles' activities in South East Asia, again either in MSM or on this site.

Adil Ray has played his part in making fun of Islam and stirring the pot so it's a bit rich when he complains about racism.

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1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

Some of that percolates onto this site, such as the coverage of Pakistani grooming gangs in the north of England (something which Adil Ray has broadcast about). Evil as it was, there's certainly no equivalent coverage of Western pedophiles' activities in South East Asia, again either in MSM or on this site.

Maybe not but the repetitive involvement of young asian muslims in these grooming gangs is embarrassingly high. Before calling out the media for covering it, asian muslims need to ask themselves why something so disgusting is becoming a regular phenomenon in their community and what exactly they are doing to stop it.

Something tells me that if it was white men grooming asian teenagers the reactions would be somewhat different. 

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57 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Maybe not but the repetitive involvement of young asian muslims in these grooming gangs is embarrassingly high. Before calling out the media for covering it, asian muslims need to ask themselves why something so disgusting is becoming a regular phenomenon in their community and what exactly they are doing to stop it.

There are multiple possible reasons.

  1. Their religious beliefs 
    1. Seeing non-Muslim women as legitimate targets
      1. I am not entirely convinced by this because like the 9/11 hijackers, other aspects of their lifestyles don't suggest deep adherence or at best selective adherence and more likely excuse making, but there may be an element of this
  2. Socio-cultural (Pakistani) background 
    1. Which could make more 'normal' relationships harder
      1. This is possible (but to a very limited extent), because it does not explain why other Muslim men of Pakistani origin don't do the same
  3. Economic background
    1. They tend to do jobs (often taxi cabbing) and spend time on the streets, which brings them into contact with these women
      1. I tend to have some belief in this reason. In the 1990s I became familiar with an STD prevention project. It was aimed at taxi-drivers because on occasion their rides would offer to pay using methods other than cash. If you search the academic literature you'll find that in many countries men in such occupations are at higher risk of such propositions. Now I am not laying the blame on the women, but I am saying that the casual nature of the work, the hours worked, etc. do present these men with opportunities - which combined perhaps with some of the points above are toxic.
      2. In many British cities the taxi-business is heavily dominated by Pakistani men. There are socio-economic reasons for this, lack of education and skills and perhaps racism which limits job opportunities elsewhere.

In sum my view is that it is a more a co-incidence that these men are Muslims of Pakistani origin, I think there are broader issues at play. I think an analogy could be drawn with the sexual exploitation of women in the movie industry. That brings men and women together in a strange economic/power imbalance. However no one seems too interested in examining whether the men involved have any common racial, religious or other characteristics.

57 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Something tells me that if it was white men grooming asian teenagers the reactions would be somewhat different. 

As I said there is a pre-existing basis for comparison.

There is a large and well-research industry of white western men going to countries like the Philippines, Thailand and so on to abuse Asian girls. What we have been talking about above pales in comparison in terms of size. Yet the latter is hardly ever remarked upon in MSM.

The only way you'd know is when someone high profile (e.g. Gary Glitter) gets caught.

 

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52 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

As I said there is a pre-existing basis for comparison.

Haji let's be honest. If white men were caught grooming pakistani girls in Bradford they probably wouldn't make it to the trial because the bradford youth would have taken the matter into their own hands.

However, when it's somebody elses daughter then we don't see any credible reactions from the community.

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45 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

If white men were caught grooming pakistani girls in Bradford

One of the charges of racism is that people are looking for a direct equivalent when the UK crime statistics show that men from different demographics commit sexual offences differently,

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15 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

One of the charges of racism is that people are looking for a direct equivalent when the UK crime statistics show that men from different demographics commit sexual offences differently,

The point stands that the asian community has been passive in their response to this concerning trend. 

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2 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

The point stands that the asian community has been passive in their response to this concerning trend.

The following is written by two criminology academics and the link is to Leeds Beckett University. I've put into bold their reference to demanding 'collective responsibility', of communities which your quotation seems to do.

Other communities are not expected to 'respond' to the failings of their members and I think it's wrong if Muslims are expected to.

Quote

‘Muslim grooming gangs’ have become a defining feature of media, political and public debate around child sexual exploitation in the UK. The dominant narrative that has emerged to explain a series of horrific cases is misleading, sensationalist and has in itself promoted a number of harms. This article examines how racist framings of ‘Muslim grooming gangs’ exist not only in extremist, far-right fringes but in mainstream, liberal discourses too. The involvement of supposedly feminist and liberal actors and the promotion of pseudoscientific ‘research’ have lent a veneer of legitimacy to essentialist, Orientalist stereotypes of Muslim men, the demonisation of whole communities and demands for collective responsibility. These developments are situated in the broader socio-political context, including the far Right’s weaponisation of women’s rights, the ‘Islamophobia industry’ and a long history of racialising crime. We propose alternative ways of understanding and responding to child sexual exploitation/abuse. We contend that genuinely anti-racist feminist approaches can help in centring victims/survivors and their needs and in tackling serious sexual violence without demonising entire communities.

http://eprints.leedsbeckett.ac.uk/6554/1/FailingVictimsFuellingHateChallengingTheHarmsOfTheMuslimGroomingGangsNarrativeAM-TUFAIL.pdf

 

This second academic article addresses your use of the word 'trend':

Quote

The article highlights a fundamental tension in the grooming discourse, showing that claims of a uniquely racial crime threat are ill founded but that Asians have been overrepresented, relative to the general population, among suspected child sexual exploiters identified to date. The implications of the current fixation with grooming and ‘Asian sex gangs’ are examined and shown to further a political agendum and legitimise thinly veiled racism, ultimately doing victims a disservice. The article concludes by calling for a shift from the sweeping, ill-founded generalisations driving dominant discourse to date, towards open and level-headed discussions around child sexual exploitation, including but not limited to, examining relationships between race and offending.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0306396813475983

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@Haji 2003 we're going round in circles brother. You can bring forward experts suggesting it's racist to question why so many asian muslims are grooming underage girls, and to suggest that their communities are passive on the issue. At the end of the day these experts are doing no favors to these communities. Until it isn't taken seriously it will continue to happen and the long term consequences won't work in anyone's favor except extremists.

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29 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

experts suggesting it's racist to question why so many asian muslims

They are saying that the phrase "so many asian muslims are grooming underage girls" does not fit with the evidence. You are welcome to post the numbers which lead to you believe that this is a problem at a community level. 

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30 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

They are saying that the phrase "so many asian muslims are grooming underage girls" does not fit with the evidence. You are welcome to post the numbers which lead to you believe that this is a problem at a community level. 

It's going to be the same old game. I will refer you to the numbers investigated by Quilliam (84percent of perpetrators were asian) you will link a left wing or muslim article discrediting their numbers etc etc

Our stances will remain the same. To you its a non issue. To me its one of many issues that asian muslims need to actively investigate and prevent for their own good. 

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On 8/1/2020 at 1:22 PM, Mahdavist said:

 Quilliam (84 percent of perpetrators were asian) ... you will link a left wing or muslim article discrediting their numbers etc etc

I don't need to do that. I'll stick with what you have said above and draw out the approach that Quilliam appear to be using:

xx% of perpetrators of xx crime are [insert race, religion, etc.]

Apart from this instance how many crimes have received this type of analysis and calls for reflection/action by the racial/religious community that the criminals represent?

If this is a standard procedure for analysing and addressing crime, I'll admit that Muslims should own up to it and like other communities who have been held to account in a similar manner we should do our bit in the name of social cohesion.

But if this approach is uniquely applied to Muslims (as I believe it is), I call Islamophobia.

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1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

If this is a standard procedure for analysing and addressing crime, I'll admit that Muslims should own up to it and like other communities who have been held to account in a similar manner we should do our bit in the name of social cohesion.

But if this approach is uniquely applied to Muslims (as I believe it is), I call Islamophobia.

And this is exactly where we disagree. For me the problem lies in the fact that as muslimeen we have these social problems in our community. Whether others are doing it or not, and how it is being politicized, is secondary. Our standards are our religious teachings, and drug dealing, gang banging, grooming, tax fraud, arms smuggling and people smuggling are all in contradiction to what Islam teaches us. 

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12 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Agreed and British Muslims in particular seem to take this to another level, especially those who ally themselves with the left wing with a mutual agreement of opposing anything and everything that doesn't come from their camp (a typical example is the uproar over the announcement of additional covid restrictions on Thursday night, just before Eid. The left wing milked it to death and the muslims are facing the backlash simply because they were made out to be self entitled victims). 

I'm the last one to play the racism or victim card, but the way the announcement of the restrictions was made was disgraceful, it is fairly clear that it was linked to Eid. Had the made the announcement earlier, it wouldn't have been a problem, but to announce it the night before Eid, after everyone's preparations had been made, in a way that suggested that Muslims were to blame for not respecting the rules, was as bad as it gets. The isn't much doubt that this government contains elements that are contemptuous of Muslims, so it's no surprise that this kind of thing happens.

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8 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Haji let's be honest. If white men were caught grooming pakistani girls in Bradford they probably wouldn't make it to the trial because the bradford youth would have taken the matter into their own hands.

However, when it's somebody elses daughter then we don't see any credible reactions from the community.

Not just that, but in many cases the blame is put on the girls for having loose morals, or the parents for allowing their kids out unsupervised (or not bringing them up properly).

Apparently the morals and upbringing of the men in question is not relevant.

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