Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
al-`Ajal Ya Imaam

Was Abu Talib A Muslim Or Kafir?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Even if he was a Muslim, shias were not to make him their infallible imam or part of Ahl-al-Bayt, so leave it!

Saiyidina Musa alayhis salam was raised by the worst kafir on earth called Pharaoh.

Saiyidina Ibrahim alayhis salam's father (Azar) was also a Kafir.

And you've forgot to mention that the fathers of the first three Khalifs were also Kafir and died as Kafir. So If their fathers were Kafir then how are we going to accept Hazrath Ali's [as] father was a Muslim??? The question is did Hazrath Abu Talib [as] migrate from Mecca to Madina with the Messenger [pbuh] and the Muslims??? If he was a Kafir then why migrate??? Why not stay with the Mushriks and Kafir of Mecca???? The Prophet [pbuh] and his Muslims were cicked out of Mecca, so If Hazrath Abu Talib [as] was a Muslim, then he was also asked to leave being an elder and a tribal leader but if he was a Kafir then he should have stayed in Mecca with his associates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Zakir said in a majlis the very reason to call imran a.s kafir is that the father of the three caliphs were kafir and their maulana say again and again all are equal ( all caliphs has same status) that's why to bring ali as to their 3 caliphs they cldeclared the father of ali a.s as kafir.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sonador, one short hadith will sum you up.

'Amir ul Mu'mineen Imam 'Ali (as) says:

I have never argued with a rational person and lost; nor have I argued with an ignorant person and won.

That's for me masha Allah because I never argued a rational person and lost. But some people who can't handle it, start slandering me, son of Yazid, Muawiyah and blah blah blah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's for me masha Allah because I never argued a rational person and lost. But some people who can't handle it, start slandering me, son of Yazid, Muawiyah and blah blah blah.

So you consider calling you son of muawiyah to be slander. You should have felt proud over it. See now you are disrespecting your great Sahaba.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you consider calling you son of muawiyah to be slander. You should have felt proud over it. See now you are disrespecting your great Sahaba.

I'm son of my father, like you're son of your father. My family tree doesn't connect Banu Umaiyah :)

So it's a slander.

Secondly I don't believe in racism. I don't support a race because I belong to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aslamalaykum,

while Abu Talib was the leader of Mecca and custodian of the Ka'bah, during his life time. so what did he do to remove Idols from Kaba since he was Muslim(this is what you shia say not me) from long time.

Did you miss this part?

Hazrat Abu Talib all his life concealed his true beliefs (in monetheism), breaking the idols would defeat the purpose wouldn't it? Also Holy Prophet s.a.w.w after openly declaring the message how long did it take for the messenger to break the idols? Why didn't He s.a.w.w do it straight away if is simple as your claiming.

Well Prophet Muhammad RasullAllah saw were not the Custodian of Kaba or leader of Mecca before Conquest of Mecca. But Abu Talib was Custodian of Kaba and Leader of Quraish; if he did not break(or throw or even attempt to throw) idols inside or around Ka'aba it means he allowed Idol Worship in and around ka'aba. Why any Muslim wud allow Idol Worship in the House of Allah?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if he was a Muslim, shias were not to make him their infallible imam or part of Ahl-al-Bayt, so leave it!

Saiyidina Musa alayhis salam was raised by the worst kafir on earth called Pharaoh.

pharaoh raised Hz Musa (as) in ignorance. He did not nourish and protect him whilst Hz Musa (as) claimed he was a prophet so the comparison is unfair.

No Shia claims infallibilty for Hz Abu Talib no idea where you getting your strange ideas from

Well Prophet Muhammad RasullAllah saw were not the Custodian of Kaba or leader of Mecca before Conquest of Mecca. But Abu Talib was Custodian of Kaba and Leader of Quraish; if he did not break(or throw or even attempt to throw) idols inside or around Ka'aba it means he allowed Idol Worship in and around ka'aba. Why any Muslim wud allow Idol Worship in the House of Allah?

Dont act so nieve. Custodian or leader does not mean absolute rule. When the Holy Prophet (pbuhahp) anounced his prophethood by your logic should have straight away destroyed the idols. In reality until the conquest of Mecca the pagans held full sway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

(salam)

sonae, Allah(swt) calls hazrat abu talib's(as) shelter as his own shelter.

to be fair to you looks like you have not read the relevant verses and don't know what you are talking about

(wasalam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dont act so nieve. Custodian or leader does not mean absolute rule. When the Holy Prophet (pbuhahp) anounced his prophethood by your logic should have straight away destroyed the idols. In reality until the conquest of Mecca the pagans held full sway

Muhammad RasullAllah (saw) did destroyed Idols as he got control over ka'aba and Mecca,

But Abu Talib was Muslim(this is what shia says not us) even before Proclamation of Prophet hood , he was the leader custodian ok Ka'aba and Quraish, leave about throwing the idols, Can you plz quote some authentic reference whr he (Abu Talib) atleast "attempted" to throw Idols from Ka'aba, or atleast preached other people that Idol Worship is sin? i am waiting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Muhammad RasullAllah (saw) did destroyed Idols as he got control over ka'aba and Mecca,

He only did after he had absolute control over Makkah.

But Abu Talib was Muslim(this is what shia says not us) even before Proclamation of Prophet hood , he was the leader custodian ok Ka'aba and Quraish, leave about throwing the idols, Can you plz quote some authentic reference whr he (Abu Talib) atleast "attempted" to throw Idols from Ka'aba, or atleast preached other people that Idol Worship is sin? i am waiting

Lol, this would completely defeat the purpose of his Taqiyya..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He only did after he had absolute control over Makkah.

as a custodian of ka'aba he did nothing , not even explained people that this(idol worship) is wrong?

if he dint, then did he handover the custodianship to someone else?( atleast something one will expect ), what he did against the idols of ka'aba as custodian of ka'aba?

Lol, this would completely defeat the purpose of his Taqiyya..

when thr is no answer taqqiya is baqi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as a custodian of ka'aba he did nothing , not even explained people that this(idol worship) is wrong?

if he dint, then did he handover the custodianship to someone else?( atleast something one will expect ), what he did against the idols of ka'aba as custodian of ka'aba?

He spoke out many times against the Kuffar. And let me tell you this point blank. He does not have absolute control over the Kaaba Following so far, or want me to slow down? He does not have absolute verdict over the Kaaba, he was the custodian of the keys, as in his respect was that he was in charge of keeping the Kaaba safe, and keeping the keys to it, he does not have full authority of what can and cannot be done to it. Next, if he resigned the Prophet would loose protection in Makkah completely, they may have abused the Prophet and hurt him and his followers, but they never tried killing him while Abu Talib was alive.

when thr is no answer taqqiya is baqi

I looked at that a few times, thought over a possible meaning. It made no sense at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it doesnt matter who your parents are or who your cousins or brothers are, if you do not testify la ilaha illahla then you are not a believer bottom line and thats from a MUSLIM perspective. personally i dont believe abu talib was kaffir as i am a shia. But i hear way to many shia get caught up in oh well he was so and so dad or uncle so hes so amazing blah blah blah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He spoke out many times against the Kuffar. And let me tell you this point blank. He does not have absolute control over the Kaaba Following so far, or want me to slow down? He does not have absolute verdict over the Kaaba, he was the custodian of the keys, as in his respect was that he was in charge of keeping the Kaaba safe, and keeping the keys to it, he does not have full authority of what can and cannot be done to it. Next, if he resigned the Prophet would loose protection in Makkah completely, they may have abused the Prophet and hurt him and his followers, but they never tried killing him while Abu Talib was alive.

I thought ill get some authentic references

I looked at that a few times, thought over a possible meaning. It made no sense at all.

when thr is no answer taqqiya is baqi (baqi means remained in arabic)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont know why its so hard to belive in someone that can hide their personal views for the sake of protecting someone. Common sense people, if Abu Talib said he was a muslim he would have been kicked out of the kaaba which then he wouldnt have been able to help the prophet. Now what you are all saing is that he is kaffir because he never stated he was a "Muslim". Before prophet Muhammad PBUH there was no such thing as Islam, just Submission to God. So are they not considered Muslims? No! When you find actual proof from a right source whether from your books or not that he did something that proved him as a kaffir then your right, but I garentee you that the chain link of your hadiths most of the time has an error. To find this answer you dont need proof just common sense. If you dont believe us "Shias" look into american books, they even say he helped Islam and the prophet, go look in wikipedia!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as a custodian of ka'aba he did nothing , not even explained people that this(idol worship) is wrong?

if he dint, then did he handover the custodianship to someone else?( atleast something one will expect ), what he did against the idols of ka'aba as custodian of ka'aba?

Not sure of this, but weren't there idols at Kaaba at the time of Prophet Abrahaim (as) if this is true, why did not Prophet Abrahaim remove those Idols?? Also, since the time of Prophet Abrahaim (as) up to the time of Rasulallah which was almost 4000years idols remained at Kaaba WHY???

I eagerly await for your response.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did Abu talib say La ilah ha illallah before he died? If he didnt then he is a disbeliver and Allah knows best.

so action speaks louder then words?

Abu Talib said Mohammad (pbuh) is the best of man

Abu Talib protected him and his (pbuh) mission

stood steadfast in his support against all the opposition of allegedly fellow kaafirs

suffered isolation in shib abi talib

but never ever gave up support and protection of RasulAllah (pbuh) from the time of the announcement at dawat zul ashira till his last breath

abu sufiyan, muwaiya et al , conspired fought against Mohammad (pbuh) all their lives,

tried to assassinate him (pbuh)

led many a battles against the Prophet (pbuh)

and when the lost the war at the time of Fall of Makkah out of sheer necessity and continued conspiring afterwards. they fought against his (pbuh) caliph/brother/successor and their offspring martyred his (pbuh) offsprings

despite this you guys are willing to accept the Islam of Abu Sufiyan and Muwayia but not of Abu Talib.

how sad!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so action speaks louder then words?

Abu Talib said Mohammad (pbuh) is the best of man

Abu Talib protected him and his (pbuh) mission

stood steadfast in his support against all the opposition of allegedly fellow kaafirs

suffered isolation in shib abi talib

but never ever gave up support and protection of RasulAllah (pbuh) from the time of the announcement at dawat zul ashira till his last breath

abu sufiyan, muwaiya et al , conspired fought against Mohammad (pbuh) all their lives,

tried to assassinate him (pbuh)

led many a battles against the Prophet (pbuh)

and when the lost the war at the time of Fall of Makkah out of sheer necessity and continued conspiring afterwards. they fought against his (pbuh) caliph/brother/successor and their offspring martyred his (pbuh) offsprings

despite this you guys are willing to accept the Islam of Abu Sufiyan and Muwayia but not of Abu Talib.

how sad!!!

But did he say that there is only one god worthy of worship?

Edited by Mohammed Amer Zeb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did Abu talib say La ilah ha illallah before he died? If he didnt then he is a disbeliver and Allah knows best.

The only person that Allah (swt) could find to help Rasuallah, in establishing his Deen is a Kaffi!!, dose that sound plausibly logical ? Do you Sunnis know anything at all about Tawheed?

Edited by power

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont know show me evidence that he did?

It is reported in the book of al-Bayhaqi (Dalail al-Nubuwwah) that when Abu Talib was at the point of death, he was seen moving his lips. al Abbas (the Prophet's uncle) bent down to listen to what he was saying. he then lifted

his head and said:

By Allah, he has uttered the word which you requested, O Messenger of Allah!.

- Dalail al-Nubuwwah by al-Bayhaqi, vol 2 p 101

- Ibn Hisham, Cairo Edition, p146 as quoted in Siratun Nabi, by Shibli

Numani, v1, pp 219-220

I suspect, you will still reject it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did Abu talib say La ilah ha illallah before he died? If he didnt then he is a disbeliver and Allah knows best.

all children follow their parents footsteps in adopting religion or later revert after doing their own research.

If Abu Talib was not a muslim then he must be an idol worshiper in which case can you name a single instance of Ali (as) worshiping an idol at any age? From childhood to puberty?

If its the Prophet (saww) sunnah to have his nikkah recited by non-muslim then why do we seek mullahs? The excuse of hukm not in quran as of yet is not really valid because our Prophet (Saww) never engaged in any other vices so why this alone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No it is too long I dont have that much time, getting ready for uni inshallah

Good luck with uni then, but I have dealt with every thing you have raised in my essay..

His words about Allah, about Islam, about Rasool Allah (pbuh) and accepting them all. About the man from Firaun's court who helped Musa (as) the same way Abu Talib (ra) helped the Prophet (pbuh) it is all dealt within the essay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure of this, but weren't there idols at Kaaba at the time of Prophet Abrahaim (as) if this is true, why did not Prophet Abrahaim remove those Idols?? Also, since the time of Prophet Abrahaim (as) up to the time of Rasulallah which was almost 4000years idols remained at Kaaba WHY???

I eagerly await for your response.

This is what we know that Hazrat Ibrahim as rebuild the Ka'aba, so are you accusing him of placing Idols inside it?

me too eagerly waiting.

Please present one sahih Narration whr abu talib in his own words the read the kalima or read salah behind him(Prophet Muhammad saw) or he converted someone to muslim. fine then we accept he was Muslim. is it that Difficult?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what we know that Hazrat Ibrahim as rebuild the Ka'aba, so are you accusing him of placing Idols inside it?

me too eagerly waiting.

How about removing that dagger_ in_the_ back then, maybe you could think more cogently,

No! i am not accusing Prophet Abraheim (as) of putting Idols at the Kaaba. My assertion is, at the time of Prophet Abraheim (as) the idols worshipper's used to disobey (as) and put there idols at the Kaaba,

We know Allah (swt) told Prophet Abraheim to build the Kaaba, but is there a specific clearly defined ayat where Allah (swt) tells of removing of the idols?

Furthermore, After the demise of Abraheim (as) the idol worshipper used hold a annually festivals at the Kaaba, We also know the descendants of prophet Adraheim were still alive, why didn't they remove any of the idols????

Edited by power

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...