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In the Name of God بسم الله

A Girl Cutting Herself Daily With A Knife Is Halal

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E A girl takes a knife, and every week, cuts her arms and they bleed. she cuts her scalp lightly and that bleeds. she does it to 'feel' the pain of Imam hussain a.s..She sometimes puts needles in her finger to 'feel' that pain. It does not harm her long term health, but she bleeds.

Halal or Harram?

What is the Qurans stance on self-harm?

What does your heart/mind tell you?

ahsant.

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(salam)

it is still haram

do not let your mind get deceived.

there is still a thing line that shouldnt be crossed and this thread is crossing it

you cannot cut yourself to feel pain of somebody else

tatbir on the other hand is something they do once a year and its a tradition by now

not cutting yourself everyday, sorry....

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You have left one of the best act ^ pity for you

How can some act be good for him when he don't know any reason for it.

Hepatitis, HIV incidence are staggeringly high among people who perform zangeer zani.

Zangeer with out knives and cutting edges are far more painful and secure to serve the purpose. Why waste your life for preparing yourself for purpose when you can do it with out any waste of life.

Edited by fightingsoul001
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How can some act be good for him when he don't know any reason for it.

Hepatitis, HIV incidence are staggeringly high among people who perform zangeer zani.

Well brother its your choice, but those who do know their reasons.

But how it can spread diseases if the used knives are not being taken?

And who said these are high among them? i mean official statistics.

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How can some act be good for him when he don't know any reason for it.

Hepatitis, HIV incidence are staggeringly high among people who perform zangeer zani.

Zangeer with out knives and cutting edges are far more painful and secure to serve the purpose. Why waste your life for preparing yourself for purpose when you can do it with out any waste of life.

Millions of people perform it every year even people give their bloody zanjeer to others and others do the matam with it without washing it before.

I bet show me a single person who has been affected by any disease you Said or back off your claim

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Well brother its your choice, but those who do know their reasons.

But how it can spread diseases if the used knives are not being taken?

And who said these are high among them? i mean official statistics.

I know because I am related to that field and know doctors from my place and other Shia majority places.

We Shia doctors discuss it very oftenly. Not aware of any official statistics but I have heard its high.

It still can cause disease with just spray of blood.

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I know because I am related to that field and know doctors from my place and other Shia majority places.

We Shia doctors discuss it very oftenly. Not aware of any official statistics but I have heard its high.

It still can cause disease with just spray of blood.

Ohh you are doctor so you must proof this

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Millions of people perform it every year even people give their bloody

zanjeer to others and others do the matam with it without washing it before.

I bet show me a single person who has been affected by any disease you

Said or back off your claim

I also never washed it but in those days these diseases were not very common.

How possibly can I show you a single person? Would you believe that person than?

And I never told you to believe it. You people are free to do any thing you desire. I m here to inform and give my reasons and not to enforce on others. You should do what ever your mind tells you.

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I know because I am related to that field and know doctors from my place and other Shia majority places.

We Shia doctors discuss it very oftenly. Not aware of any official statistics but I have heard its high.

It still can cause disease with just spray of blood.

We are Shia too, and know lot more people who do this but never heard it. Imam Ali(as) said the distance between true and false is of three fingers(between eye and ear). Don't believe what you heard but believe what you saw.

Such cases i never heard though i am really social in Shia community, and know doctors from family and outside as well. Who are tatbiris themselves inspite of being experienced doctors.

Anyways i am not imposing my opinion on you just reflecting on what you said about diseases.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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I also never washed it but in those days these diseases were not very common.

How possibly can I show you a single person? Would you believe that person than?

And I never told you to believe it. You people are free to do any thing you desire. I m here to inform and give my reasons and not to enforce on others. You should do what ever your mind tells you.

If you would have wash Allah knows hom much thawaab he would give ,, you missed a chance dude

Obviously we are gonna do whatever we feel but you are the only one who is speaking against tatbeer like this disease and that if you don't wanna do don't do but don't criticize infront of others .

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We are Shia too, and know lot more people who do this but never heard it. Imam Ali(as) said the distance between true and false is of three fingers(between eye and ear). Don't believe what you heard but believe what you saw.

Such cases i never heard though i am really social in Shia community, and know doctors from family and outside as well. Who are tatbiris themselves inspite of being experienced doctors.

Anyways i am not imposing my opinion on you just reflecting on what you said about diseases.

What is wrong with using zanjeer without knives. It is more painful than the other one. I myself has used both.

If you would have wash Allah knows hom much thawaab he would give ,, you missed a chance dude

Obviously we are gonna do whatever we feel but you are the only one who is speaking against tatbeer like this disease and that if you don't wanna do don't do but don't criticize infront of others .

I am saying what I saw and what I heard and what I think. How is it criticism when we are all here to share?

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What is wrong with using zanjeer without knives. It is more painful than the other one. I myself has used both.

Knife or without knife its upto those who do. Our Iraani brothers do with chain without knives, ,Iraqis,bahrainis and

many Indians do it over head with knife only,no chains.

Pakis,afghans ,and remaining Indians do it with knives and chains on their backs. There are many who do none of them but are still momin and Azadar. So the bottomline is we all are Muhibs, and everyone expresses grief in their own style but they all are respectable for us.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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Knife or without knife its upto those who do. Our Iraani brothers do with chain without knives, ,Iraqis,bahrainis and

many Indians do it over head with knife only,no chains.

Pakis,afghans ,and remaining Indians do it with knives and chains on their backs. There are many who do none of them but are still momin and Azadar. So the bottomline is we all are Muhibs, and everyone expresses grief in their own style but they all are respectable for us.

Sorry sis. You need to be more clear by us.

Please read what the arguably the two biggest atyatullahs say:

Question by Ahmed: My brother wants to do Qama on 20 Safar, he is following Ayatollah Sistani. Based on the misuse of Qama today, insincerity of many people, diseases spreading around, and political views can I stop him from doing Qama?

Answer by Board of Istifa, Office of Grand Ayatollah Sistani: The main objective of mourning and lamentation during 'Ashura', is to respect the signs and symbols of religion and remember the suffering of Imam Hussain (as), his companions, and his uprising to defend Islam and prevent the destruction of the religion by Bani Umayyad dynasty. These rites must be done in such a way that in addition to serving that purpose, it draws the attention of others to these lofty goals. Also its ritual aspect should be preserved. So those actions which are not understandable for the enemies of Islam and non-Shia Muslims and causes misunderstanding and contempt for the religion must be avoided.

Question by Zaeem Sherazi: I want to know the status of beating our backs with knives (ZANJEER) on the day of Ashura? What is it status in our Fiqh?

Answer by Board of Istifa, Office of Grand Ayatollah Sistani: The philosophy of mourning during 'Ashura', is to respect the symbols of religion and remember the suffering of Imam Hussain (as), his companions, and his uprising to defend Islam and prevent the destruction of the religion by Bani Umayyad dynasty. These rites must be done in such a way that in addition to serving that purpose, it draws the attention of others to these lofty goals. So those actions which are not understandable and causes misunderstanding and contempt for the religion must be avoided.

khamenei.jpgAyatollah Khamenei: Practical Laws of Islam >> Religious Events

Q1430: What is the view on beating the drum and cymbal, blowing the trumpet, and lashing oneself with chains with blades during the processions of the commemoration of the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (a.s.)?

A: If the use of such chains leads, in the eye of the public, to defaming our school of thought or inflicting a noticeable harmful effect on the body, it is not permissible. There is no harm in using the drum, cymbal, and trumpet in the traditional way.

Q1439: Is there any basis in religion for piercing one's body with weights dangling therefrom, all in the name of commemorating the martyrdom of the Imam Husayn (a.s.)?

A: These acts, which are, inevitably, bound to portray our school of thought in a negative shade, are impermissible.

Q1449: In commemorating the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (a.s.) on the tenth of Muharram, some people hit themselves with a machete, or walk bare-footed on fire. Such actions defame Shi'ism and put it in a bad light, if not undermine it. They cause bodily and spiritual harms on these doing it as well. What is your opinion in this matter?

A: Any practice that causes bodily harm, or leads to defaming the faith, is Haram. Accordingly, the believers have to steer clear of it. There is no doubt that many of these practices besmirch the image of Ahlul Bayt's (a.s.) School of Thought which is the worst damage and loss.

Q1450: Is hitting oneself with swords Halal if it is done in secret? Or is your fatwa in this regard universal?

A: In addition to the fact that it is not held in the common view as manifestations of mourning and grief and it has no precedent at the lifetime of the Imams (a.s.) and even after that and we have not received any tradition quoted from the Infallibles (a.s.) about any support for this act, be it privately or publicly, this practice would, at the present time, give others a bad image of our school of thought. Therefore, there is no way that it can be considered permissible.

Edited by Logical Islam
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Aslamalaykum,

We are Shia too, and know lot more people who do this but never heard it. Imam Ali(as) said the distance between true and false is of three fingers(between eye and ear). Don't believe what you heard but believe what you saw.

Four fingers according to the narration from 6th Imam if my memory serves me right.

Anyways there are many exceptions for Imam Hussain a.s, there is a whole list of them. The month that the master was born there is no shahadat in that month, the month he was martyred there is no wiladat.

Edited by muslimunity1
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Sadness of the heart and soul is much more symbolic than harming yourself for the case of Imam Hussain (as). The best sign of wilayah and sacrifice for our Imams, especially Imam Hussain, is living the way they lived (with piety and justice). I don't think any Imam would encourage women harming themselves in order to show their love for our Imams.

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Sorry sis. You need to be more clear by us.

Please read what the arguably the two biggest atyatullahs say:

Question by Ahmed: My brother wants to do Qama on 20 Safar, he is following Ayatollah Sistani. Based on the misuse of Qama today, insincerity of many people, diseases spreading around, and political views can I stop him from doing Qama?

Answer by Board of Istifa, Office of Grand Ayatollah Sistani: The main objective of mourning and lamentation during 'Ashura', is to respect the signs and symbols of religion and remember the suffering of Imam Hussain (as), his companions, and his uprising to defend Islam and prevent the destruction of the religion by Bani Umayyad dynasty. These rites must be done in such a way that in addition to serving that purpose, it draws the attention of others to these lofty goals. Also its ritual aspect should be preserved. So those actions which are not understandable for the enemies of Islam and non-Shia Muslims and causes misunderstanding and contempt for the religion must be avoided.

Question by Zaeem Sherazi: I want to know the status of beating our backs with knives (ZANJEER) on the day of Ashura? What is it status in our Fiqh?

Answer by Board of Istifa, Office of Grand Ayatollah Sistani: The philosophy of mourning during 'Ashura', is to respect the symbols of religion and remember the suffering of Imam Hussain (as), his companions, and his uprising to defend Islam and prevent the destruction of the religion by Bani Umayyad dynasty. These rites must be done in such a way that in addition to serving that purpose, it draws the attention of others to these lofty goals. So those actions which are not understandable and causes misunderstanding and contempt for the religion must be avoided.

khamenei.jpgAyatollah Khamenei: Practical Laws of Islam >> Religious Events

Q1430: What is the view on beating the drum and cymbal, blowing the trumpet, and lashing oneself with chains with blades during the processions of the commemoration of the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (a.s.)?

A: If the use of such chains leads, in the eye of the public, to defaming our school of thought or inflicting a noticeable harmful effect on the body, it is not permissible. There is no harm in using the drum, cymbal, and trumpet in the traditional way.

Q1439: Is there any basis in religion for piercing one's body with weights dangling therefrom, all in the name of commemorating the martyrdom of the Imam Husayn (a.s.)?

A: These acts, which are, inevitably, bound to portray our school of thought in a negative shade, are impermissible.

Q1449: In commemorating the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (a.s.) on the tenth of Muharram, some people hit themselves with a machete, or walk bare-footed on fire. Such actions defame Shi'ism and put it in a bad light, if not undermine it. They cause bodily and spiritual harms on these doing it as well. What is your opinion in this matter?

A: Any practice that causes bodily harm, or leads to defaming the faith, is Haram. Accordingly, the believers have to steer clear of it. There is no doubt that many of these practices besmirch the image of Ahlul Bayt's (a.s.) School of Thought which is the worst damage and loss.

Q1450: Is hitting oneself with swords Halal if it is done in secret? Or is your fatwa in this regard universal?

A: In addition to the fact that it is not held in the common view as manifestations of mourning and grief and it has no precedent at the lifetime of the Imams (a.s.) and even after that and we have not received any tradition quoted from the Infallibles (a.s.) about any support for this act, be it privately or publicly, this practice would, at the present time, give others a bad image of our school of thought. Therefore, there is no way that it can be considered permissible.

See my answer and fatwas of other scholars on your previous thread they really outnumber those against it.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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Sadness of the heart and soul is much more symbolic than harming yourself for the case of Imam Hussain (as). The best sign of wilayah and sacrifice for our Imams, especially Imam Hussain, is living the way they lived (with piety and justice). I don't think any Imam would encourage women harming themselves in order to show their love for our Imams.

Exactly!

True sadness comes from the soul, and the willing to change, to honour their sacrifice

They stood up to a tyrant, let US stand up to tyrants.

They saved islam, LET US consider what is so important about this religion?

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Hmm..my views on tatbir have already been stated here so I won't get into a debate on that however what this girl seems to be doing doesn't seem right. I mean tatbir is usually done only once/twice a year but if you're continuously self harming yourself you're bound to get scars, which is not nice on a girl. She is ruining her own beauty and thus may not get any marriage proposals. Above all that, it's seriously not healthy for the mind to be doing this every week and it's really not necessary. We have the month of Muharram to mourn...

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I've always been of the opinion that self mutilation is haraam, regardless of the intention.

Would it be halal to have a tattoo done on your chest or back that says "ya Hussain," or a picture of Imam Hussain? I believe pictures of him are somewhat haraam in the first place, but regardless of that, if you believe destroying the body God gave you with tattoos are haraam, then I don't see how you can believe zanjeer is halal.

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E A girl takes a knife, and every week, cuts her arms and they bleed. she cuts her scalp lightly and that bleeds. she does it to 'feel' the pain of Imam hussain a.s..She sometimes puts needles in her finger to 'feel' that pain. It does not harm her long term health, but she bleeds.

Halal or Harram?

What is the Qurans stance on self-harm?

What does your heart/mind tell you?

ahsant.

My heart and mind tells me this girl is Emo

Edited by RoAcHy
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She might as well donate the blood to me...

exactly.

Aslamalaykum,

Four fingers according to the narration from 6th Imam if my memory serves me right.

Anyways there are many exceptions for Imam Hussain a.s, there is a whole list of them. The month that the master was born there is no shahadat in that month, the month he was martyred there is no wiladat.

i don't think an exception will ever be : self harm, pub lic mutilation of men , women, children, and ruining the image of islam and the message hussain a.s. tried to save.

exactly.

i don't think an exception will ever be : self harm, pub lic mutilation of men , women, children, and ruining the image of islam and the message hussain a.s. tried to save.

Out of 124,000,000 prophets, not a single was born on muharram ?

Out of all the prophets family, wifes, children, and families children, not a single was born on muharram ?

Before Kerbala, Muharram was just another month.

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