Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Omar Killed Fatema? Auzubillah! The Reason Why

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

(bismillah)

(salam)

Imagine someone killed the Prophet's (SAAAS) daughter. He will have Allah's (SWT) curse in the Dunya and Akhira. This is a Shia clerk who explains the real reason behind the broken rib story.

Narrated 'Aisha (ra):

The Prophet (SAAAS) called his daughter Fatima (as) during his illness in which he died, and told her a secret whereupon she wept. Then he called her again and told her a secret whereupon she laughed. When I asked her about that, she replied, "The Prophet (SAAAS) spoke to me in secret and informed me that he would die in the course of the illness during which he died, so I wept. He again spoke to me in secret and informed me that I would be the first of his family to follow him (after his death) and on that I laughed."

(Sahih Bukhari, Book 57, Number 62)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Every time a Sunni fails he starts to post videos from youtube :lol:

Ãäå áãÇ íÌÈ Úáì ÛÖÈ ÚãÑ æÃÖÑã ÇáäÇÑ ÈÈÇÈ Úáì æÃÍÑÞå æÏÎá ÝÇÓÊÞÈáÊå ÝÇØãÉ æÕÇÍÊ íÇ ÃÈÊÇå æíÇ ÑÓæá Çááå ÝÑÝÚ ÚãÑ ÇáÓíÝ æåæ Ýì ÛãÏå ÝæÌà Èå ÌäÈåÇ ÇáãÈÇÑß æÑÝÚ ÇáÓæØ ÝÖÑÈ Èå ÖÑÚåÇ ÝÕÇÍÊ íÇ ÃÈÊÇå ÝÃÎÐ Úáì ÈÊáÇÈíÈ ÚãÑ æåÒå ææÌà ÃäÝå æÑÞÈÊå

ÇáÂáæÓí ÇáÈÛÏÇÏí¡ ÇáÚáÇãÉ ÃÈí ÇáÝÖá ÔåÇÈ ÇáÏíä ÇáÓíÏ ãÍãæÏ (ãÊæÝÇí1270åÜ)¡ ÑæÍ ÇáãÚÇäí Ýí ÊÝÓíÑ ÇáÞÑÂä ÇáÚÙíã æÇáÓÈÚ ÇáãËÇäí¡ Ì3¡ Õ124¡ äÇÔÑ: ÏÇÑ ÅÍíÇÁ ÇáÊÑÇË ÇáÚÑÈí - ÈíÑæÊ

Alusi well known Sunni mufassir (interpreter of the Holy Quran), writes:

'Umar became angry and burned the door of Ali's house and broke into the house of Ali, Fatima opposed Umar and cried out : "Oh, father! O Messenger of Allah! 'Umar swunged with the sword which was in its sheath and struck the side of Fatima, and then struck her with whip in the shoulder. Fatima moaned, "Oh, father!"

Ali got up from his seat and grabbed Umar's chest and threw him on the ground, then punched him in the nose and neck. "

Alusi Baghdadi Tafsir "Ruh al ma'ani fi Tafsir al-Qur'an, Volume 3, page 124

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Firstly, Fadhlallah is rejected by a lot of Shi'a for his views. Imam Ali also tried fighting back, but was taken in chains out of his home, and forced a pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr. And here are Sunni sources all confirming the fact of what Umar did. I actually am copy pasting them from a Facebook chat I had with a Sunni on Facebook, where I gave them these Hadith and will reuse my work here, so the font will be a bit weird but that's the reason:

They(Umar and Abu Bakr's men or supporters) went to Fatima's house, Fatima said" I will not allow you to enter without my permission. They returned and they told Umar, Fatima does not allow us to enter without her permission, thereby Umar became angry and ordered men to carry firewood and he also carried with them and they put the firewood around the house of Fatima, Umar then rose his voice so Ali can hear and said: "By Allah you rather come out and pay allegiance to the successor of the Prophet (pbuh) or I will set your house on fire, Umar then returned to Abu Bakr because he was too scared from Ali to enter, Abu Bakr then said tell him to come out if he doesn't, break into the house and set it on fire, Umar, kunfuz and their friends broke into the house without permission, Ali rushed to his sword but they took hold of it before he got to it, they then charged their swords at Ali and put a black rope around his neck and Fatima had been injured after the charging at the door and kunfuz(la) whipped her on her upper arm Abu Bakr ordered Abu Bakr to whip her, untill he broke her ribs and caused her to have a miscarage untill. later on , she remained in her bed injured till she died from the attack as a martyr

This hadith has been recorded in Shi'a and Sunni books, the Sunni references being:

- History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120

- History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325

- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975

- Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20

- al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20

-musnaf ibn abi shaybah

-Muruj adh-Dhahab by Abd al-Hasan Ali ibn al-Husayn al Masudi Volume 3 page 198

Another Hadith on the event:

Umar Ibn al-Khattab came to the house of Ali. Talha and Zubair and

some of the immigrants were also in the house. Umar cried out:

"By God, either you come out to render the oath of allegiance, or

I will set the house on fire." al-Zubair came out with his sword

drawn. As he stumbled (upon something), the sword fell from his hand

so they jumped over him and seized him."

History of Tabari, English version, v9, pp 186-187

Another:

"O' daughter of the Prophet! I didn't love anyone as much as I

loved your father, nor anyone after him is more loving to me as

you are. But I swear by Allah that if these people assemble

here with you, then this love of mine would not prevent me from

setting your house on fire."

- History of Tabari, in the events of the year 11 AH

- al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, beginning of the book,

and pp 19-20

- Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362

- Iqd al-Farid, by Ibn Abd Rabbah al-Malik, v2, chapter of Saqifah

Here's some more:

Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know

that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this

will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in

your house, I will burn the door in front of you."

Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140

This is an interesting one where your Abu Bakr on his death bed is starting to regret doing something:

Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for

Fatimah's house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would

have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a

shelter."

- History of Ya'qubi, v2, pp 115-116

- Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

Also, the record of Ya'qubi and Baladhuri tell us some people involved in the attack against Sayyed Fatima (Salaam Allah Alayha):

- Umar Ibn al-Khattab

- Khalid Ibn Walid

- Abdurrahman Ibn Ouf

- Thabit Ibn Shammas

- Ziad Ibn Labid

- Muhammad Ibn Maslamah

- Salamah Ibn Salem Ibn Waqash

- Salamah Ibn Aslam

- Usaid Ibn Hozair

- Zaid Ibn Thabit

**Your great Sahabas in action right there..

Ibn Qutubiyyah also tells us another narration about the event:

Umar asked for wood, and told those people inside the house: "I swear

by Allah who has my soul in his hand, that if you do not come out, I

will burn the house." Someone told Umar that Fatimah was inside the

house. Umar said: "So what! It doesn't matter to me who is in the

house."

Al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 3,19-20

Here's a real interesting Hadith on the event:

Abu Bakr asked Ali to support him, but Ali refused, then Umar went

toward the Ali's house with a burning torch. At the door he met

Fatima who said to him: "Do you intend to burn the door of my house?"

Umar said: "Yes, because this act will strengthen the faith brought to

us by your father."

Al-Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

Here's one depicting the scene of why they came to the house:

Ali and Abbas were sitting inside the house of Fatimah, Abu Bakr told

Umar: "Go and bring them; if they refuse, kill them." Umar brought

fire to burn the house. Fatimah came near the door and said: "O son of

Khattab, have you come to burn our house on me and my children?" Umar

replied: "Yes I will, by Allah, until they come out and pay allegiance

to the Prophet's Caliph."

- Iqd al-Fareed, by Ibn Abd Rabb, Part 3, Pg. 63

- al-Ghurar, by Ibn Khazaben, related from Zayd Ibn Aslam

Here's a really disturbing event that the scholar Salahudeen Khaleel Al Safadee has recorded this narration in his book "Waafi Al Wafiyaat" under the letter "Alif":

Ibrahim Ibn

Sayyar Ibn Hani al-Basri(well-known as Nidhaam) quotes him to have said:

"On the day of 'Bay'aat' (paying allegiance), Umar hit Fatimah on the stomach such that child in her womb died."

Oh, and this final Hadith, where they now regret being the reason that Sayyeda Fatima dies:

During her last days, when Abu Bakr and Umar sought the mediation of Ali to visit the ailing Hadhrat Fatimah , as quoted by Ibn Qutaybah, she tured her face to the wall when they greeted her and in response to their plea for appeasement reminded them of the prophetic declaration that one who displeases Fatimah has displeased the Prophet and finally said: "I take Allah and the angels to be my witness that you have not pleased me; on the other hand, you have angered me. When I shall meet the Prophet I will complain about you two." (al-Imamah wa al-

Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p14).

Apart from this, the Youtube user "Antimajoos" always uses the most incredible and odd scholars on earth (He calls himself a Shi'a and calls his Imams "Barbarians" (Astaghfir Allah) where do you get these guys). Apart from that, those are Sunni Arab transmitters all talking about the same event.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Abu bakr said:

I wish I never violated or abandoned the house of Fatima even if she had waged a war against me. I wish that on the day of Saqifah I had placed the affair (i.e. caliphate) on the neck of either Abu Ubaydah or Umar so that such would be the Commander of the Believers while I remained his vizier. I wish I had not sent Khalid ibn Walid towards the people of apostasy.

The margin writer of al-Ahadith al-Mukhtarat states that all its narrations are sahih. Imam al-Suyuti in his Tadrib al-Rawi 1/144 states:

æãäåã ÇáÍÇÝÙ ÖíÇÁ ÇáÏíä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáæÇÍÏ ÇáãÞÏÓí ÌãÚ ßÊÇÈÇð ÓãøÇå ÇáãÎÊÇÑÉ ÇáÊÒã Ýíå ÇáÕÍÉ¡ æÐßÑ Ýíå ÃÍÇÏíË áã íÓÈÞ Åáì ÊÕÍíÍåÇ

Among them is al-Hafiz Diya al-Din Muhammad ibn al-Wahid al-Maqdisi. He compiled a book naming it al-Mukhtarat. In the book are sahih narrations. He has recorded only sahih narrations in that book.

Source for full narration: al-Diya al-Maqdisi in his al-Ahadith al-Mukhtarat 1/88

Link to post
Share on other sites

The uploader of this video is amskhan2007. He hold the power to deny or allow a comment on his video, and many of my comments were withheld. He is prejudiced, and nobody should fall into his trap, he is trying to get Sunnis and Shi'ites to fight each other. But Islam needs unity, so just ignore him. The enemies of Islam want us to be fighting each other, and we don't want to be one of those Muslims that are working for those enemies of Islam!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

lol at some of the stories above - it seems many different stories for one event !!!!

umar ra punching the pregnant stomach of fatimah ra and killing the baby????? so shias seriously seriously believe this?????

My brother, it's not a matter of belief, it's a true narrated event. There is ample evidence it happened, here are two links that'll explain in depth it happened:

1:

2:

And also, you imply that there are different stories for one event, the difference Hadith report different words, at the most, the dialogues, the incident, it's the same there. Whether you don't want to accept it is your issue to deal with, but it happened.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

lol at some of the stories above - it seems many different stories for one event !!!!

umar ra punching the pregnant stomach of fatimah ra and killing the baby????? so shias seriously seriously believe this?????

There isnt many different stories here, they all r explaining the same event.

If u didnt know that this happened, then do some research and start by reading ur own hadiths ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

There isnt many different stories here, they all r explaining the same event.

If u didnt know that this happened, then do some research and start by reading ur own hadiths ;)

Couldn't have said it better.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
But if you watch the video with honesty, you should agree with this shia scholar's view about why Iranians / Persians hate Umar radiyallahu anhu from the core of their hearts.

First of all, the man is hardly credible. He is known to make odd statements, this isn't the first time. Anyhow, let's assume what he says is true. This only holds for one nationality. What about the millions of Shi'a in other parts of the world?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

But if you watch the video with honesty, you should agree with this shia scholar's view about why Iranians / Persians hate Umar radiyallahu anhu from the core of their hearts.

If you mean that Iranians hate Umar because he made them convert to Islam or attacked Persia, then there are some issues to be addressed:

1/ If Umar and his soldiers oppressed Iranians, then, why shall not they hate him?

2/ If they did not oppress Iranians, then, why shall they hate him (there must be another reason for this)?

3/ Why dont sunnie Iranians hate him?

Edited by shadow_of_light
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

First of all, the man is hardly credible. He is known to make odd statements, this isn't the first time. Anyhow, let's assume what he says is true. This only holds for one nationality. What about the millions of Shi'a in other parts of the world?

Millions of shias in other parts of the world learn their deen from Persians; scholars of Persia. Shia imams also lived in parts of Persia.

If a Non-Persian shia like Fadlallah refuses to believe that Umar r.a killed Fatimah r.a, mainstream shias (Persians and the off shoots) denounce him.

If you mean that Iranians hate Umar because he made them convert to Islam or attacked Persia, then there are some issues to be addressed:

1/ If Umar and his soldiers oppressed Iranians, then, why shall not they hate him?

2/ If they did not oppress Iranians, then, why shall they hate him (there must be another reason for this)?

3/ Why dont sunnie Iranians hate him?

1. If Umar r.a and the Mujahideen that conquered Persia / Iran oppressed Iranians, their hatred wouldn't make any sense if they had embraced Islam. Now if instead of Islam, they embraced some other form of religion which is a mix of Islam and Persian Nationalism then they would hate Umar r.a.

2. Persians called themselves very civilized; they still consider themselves more cultured than Arabs. And their hatred for Arabs is still prominent, you can see that in their national and international policies. You can see that hatred towards Arabs on this forum too. So they are never able to digest the fact that 'uncivilized' Arabs defeated them and destroyed their Persian identity and they had to lose their religion (Zoroastrianism). This is the reason why there is intense hatred towards Saiyidina Umar from shias. Because their early religious work was formulated by the same people who were feeling this heartache of destruction of Persia at the hands of Umar r.a.

3. Sunni Iranians don't hate Umar r.a because the religion they believe was not formulated by racist Persians.

Edited by Sonador
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

If the Iranians really were angry at Ibn al Khattab for 'converting them', they would have left Islam altogether.

At the end of the day, what scholar X or Y says is irrelevant. The books of hadith and history speak for themselves.

3. Sunni Iranians don't hate Umar r.a because the religion they believe was not formulated by racist Persians.

Imam Bukhari: persian

Muslim ibn Hajjaj: persian

al Nasa'i: persian

Abu Dawud: persian

al-Tirmidhi: persian

ibn Majah: persian

Brother, your entire religion comes from persians.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

If the Iranians really were angry at Ibn al Khattab for 'converting them', they would have left Islam altogether.

They didn't have room to leave Islam altogether, so they changed it.

At the end of the day, what scholar X or Y says is irrelevant. The books of hadith and history speak for themselves.

The books of hadith compiled by Persian shias reflect their persian roots.

Imam Bukhari: persian

Muslim ibn Hajjaj: persian

al Nasa'i: persian

Abu Dawud: persian

al-Tirmidhi: persian

ibn Majah: persian

Brother, your entire religion comes from persians.

They are sunnis, 180 degrees difference.

Edited by Sonador
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Before the cat fight above escalates to far, I was just going to say to Sonador, that FadhlAllah also allowed women to masturbate, and has some really messed up views. There's a reason he's considered incredible and odd.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

So look into your own books :)

In fact, some of the brothers have already brought forward the references above.

Sunnis started writing hadith a couple of centuries ahead of shias writing / compiling their own. And those days shias claimed they were sunnis, so they incorporated 'their work' in sunni hadith books. Shias were not allowed to expose their faith at that time. They were commanded to perform Taqiyyah then. Much of such manipulation by shia historians and hadith reporters has been exposed by the scholars after research. Please note, this is not my personal opinion.

Edited by Sonador
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

1/ (Assuming that they oppressed Persians), the fact that they converted to Islam doesnt mean that they should have not opposed the oppression. Nothing can justify oppression, whether the oppressor is a muslim, a zoroastrian, ... .

2/ (Assuming that they didnt oppress Persians), if their hate is due to racism, why dont they hate Imam Ali(a) and the Prophet (s). They were Arab, too.

Moreover, if nowadays, Persian civilization is known as one of the ancient civilizations, it doesnt mean that that they used to call themselves "civilized".

Racism in Iran is a new phenomenon and the reason is irreligious people who try to promote it among the youth. It was not prevalent in the ancient times. Even most Iranian (shia) scholars used to write their books in Arabic.

And, there are sunnie Arab racists too? Yes? A recent example is Saddam.

3/ Can you prove that sunnie Iranians were not racist but shia ones were racist? The overwhelming majority of Iranian Kurds are sunnie and some of them are racist.

They didn't have room to leave Islam altogether, so they changed it.

Why couldnt they revert to their former religion?

Edited by shadow_of_light
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

1/ (Assuming that they oppressed Persians), the fact that they converted to Islam doesnt mean that they should have not opposed the oppression. Nothing can justify oppression, whether the oppressor is a muslim, a zoroastrian, ... .

Ruling elites of Mushrikeen and Kuffar were oppressed everywhere Islam went. For example in Arabian Peninsula, Muhammad s.a.w and his caliphs ended feudalism of Arab tribals and established Islamic Empire. The problem lies where the Persian resistance to Islam or Arab-Islam passed on generation after generation. If they accepted Islam then not in its real Arabic-Form.

2/ (Assuming that they didnt oppress Persians), if their hate is due to racism, why dont they hate Imam Ali(a) and the Prophet (s). They were Arab, too.

They used Ali r.a to start their campaign against Islam. So Saiyidina Ali r.a was forced to move his capital from Madinah to Kufah. But the same Kufans killed his sons when they refused to go ahead with the Persian Agenda against Islam.

Moreover, if nowadays, Persian cilivilization is known as one of the ancient civilizations, it doesnt mean that that they used to call themselves "civilized".

They were super powers of the time when Saiyidina Umar r.a defeated them. They did and they do consider themselves more civilized than Arabs.

I think I don't have to prove how Persians are proud of their identity and still look down upon Arabs generally.

Racism in Iran is a new phenomenon and the reason is irreligious people who try to promote it among the youth. It was not prevalent in the ancient times. Even most Iranian (shia) scholars used to write their books in Arabic.

I was talking about Persian scholars who based their religious text on racism, hatred for Arab invaders (Umar and his people).

And, there are sunnie Arab racists too? Yes? A recent example is Saddam.

Saddam was not a religious guide.

3/ Can you prove that sunnie Iranians were not racist but shia ones were racist? The overwhelming majority of Iranian Kurds are sunnie and some of them are racist.

Sunni Iranians don't follow a religion based upon hatred of Arabs (Umar and his people).

Why couldnt they revert to their former religion?

Because they were ruled by Abbasids who didn't let them go back to their former religion. They secretly were working on their different faith and when Safavids took over Persia, they came up with full force.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

1/ Can you prove that they didnt like Islam and that they converted to it unwillingly?

2/ If they were forced to convert, then, do you think that it is true to force someone to convert?

3/ Why didnt they revert to their former religion after Abbasids? Finally Arabs left Iran and Iranians took power. Why didnt they revert to Zoroastrianism?

4/ Can you prove that shia scholars in Iran, were racist?

5/ Persia also was attacked by Romans and the Greek. Why dont Iranians hate them? (I mean, why today, Iranians dont hate people of Greece)?

6/ Can you prove that Iranians used Imam Ali(a) in order to start their campaign against Islam?

Actually, ordinary people in Iran hated their kings because there was a widespread discrimination and other problems as well. So when Arabs came to Iran, people didnt help their king and his army to defeat Arabs. And during Islamic era, Iran developed more and more. So, we didnt lose our civilization but in fact, it was developed.

Edited by shadow_of_light
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

1/ Can you prove that they didnt like Islam and that they converted to it unwillingly?

Their actions later on proved a group of them remained hypocrite, they kept conspiring against Muslims. They worked in the field of literature, history and hadith. Spread lies and disinformation in the name of hadith and history to damage the progress of Islam.

2/ If they were forced to convert, then, do you think that it is true to force someone to convert?

Islam doesn't permit forced conversions. There are no reliable reports that Persians were converted to Islam by force, if I'm not wrong.

3/ Why didnt they revert to their former religion after Abbasids? Finally Arabs left Iran and Iranians took power. Why didnt they revert to Zoroastrianism?

Their Zorastrian forefathers had died centuries ago, they were left with people like Safavids and a group of conspirators that had been working against Islamic ideology through literature. So they propagated the new faith which was a mix of Islam and Judaism and Zoroastrianism.

4/ Can you prove that shia scholars in Iran, were racist?

Read Mulla Baqir Majlisi for example.

5/ Persia also was attacked by Romans and the Greek. Why dont Iranians hate them? (I mean, why today, Iranians dont hate people of Greece)?

Romans couldn't conquer Persia, nor could they convert Majoos to Christians.

6/ Can you prove that Iranians used Imam Ali(a) in order to start their campaign against Islam?

Yes, I can. Please keep in touch, we can work on a separate topic like this.

Actually, ordinary people in Iran hated their kings because there was a widespread discrimination and other problems as well. So when Arabs came to Iran, people didnt help their king and his army to defeat Arabs. And during Islamic era, Iran developed more and more. So, we didnt lose our civilization but in fact, it was developed.

That's true. And I'm not using a blanket statement for all Persians. I'm only talking about a group of hypocrites that remained there all over the Islamic history working against Islam.

The great sunni clergy also comes from Persia by the way.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Both shia and sunnie hadith books contain weak or fake ahadeeth. So your argument can be used against sunnies too.

Can you bring any clear evidence which proves that shia scholars were racist? What is your opinion about this rasict statement by Muawia?

Muawia, in a famous letter addressed to Ziyad ibn Abih, the then governor of Iraq, wrote: "Be watchful of Iranian Muslims and never treat them as equals of Arabs. Arabs have a right to take in marriage their women, but they have no right to marry Arab women. Arabs are entitled to inherit their legacy, but they cannot inherit from an Arab. As far as possible they are to be given lesser pensions and lowly jobs. In the presence of an Arab, a non-Arab shall not lead the congregation prayer, nor they are to be allowed to stand in the first row of prayer, nor to be entrusted with the job of guarding the frontiers or the post of a qadi."

source: "Ansab al Ashraf" or "Futuh al-Buldan" by ÈáÇÐÑی . p.417.

There are different reasons which led to promotion of shia sect in Iran, including: Imam Reza's presence in Iran, Imam Ali's presence in Kufa (in that time, many Iranians lived in Kufa), the presence of Imam Sadiq's students in Iran, ...

And also before Safavides, there were other shia dynasties in Iran such as Ale-Buye (unlike sunnie dynasties which were cruel to shias, Ale-buye was not cruel towards sunnies) and Sarbedaran.

Considering that Abbasides left Iran in the year 205 H (and then Iranian dynasties took power) and that there were Zoroastrians who had not converted, reverting to the previous religion was not impossible.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Can you bring any clear evidence which proves that shia scholars were racist? What is your opinion about this rasict statement by Muawia?

Muawia, in a famous letter addressed to Ziyad ibn Abih, the then governor of Iraq, wrote: "Be watchful of Iranian Muslims and never treat them as equals of Arabs. Arabs have a right to take in marriage their women, but they have no right to marry Arab women. Arabs are entitled to inherit their legacy, but they cannot inherit from an Arab. As far as possible they are to be given lesser pensions and lowly jobs. In the presence of an Arab, a non-Arab shall not lead the congregation prayer, nor they are to be allowed to stand in the first row of prayer, nor to be entrusted with the job of guarding the frontiers or the post of a qadi."

source: "Ansab al Ashraf" or "Futuh al-Buldan" by ÈáÇÐÑی . p.417.

Muawiyah was the khalifah of Muslims; a companion of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. No Muslim can trust a narration like the above, instead they believe the narrators are liars.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Muawiyah was the khalifah of Muslims; a companion of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. No Muslim can trust a narration like the above, instead they believe the narrators are liars.

The crimes of Muawiyah, the one cursed by the Messenger of Allah (saaw), are too well known and numerous to waste time with here. This topic is about Umar and his crime. Can you please brother Sonador, elaborate for us what exactly happened between Bibi Fatima (sa) and Umar?

Did Umar threaten to burn the House of Fatima (sa)?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

The crimes of Muawiyah, the one cursed by the Messenger of Allah (saaw), are too well known and numerous to waste time with here. This topic is about Umar and his crime. Can you please brother Sonador, elaborate for us what exactly happened between Bibi Fatima (sa) and Umar?

Did Umar threaten to burn the House of Fatima (sa)?

Well, Muslims don't believe in such absurd and stupid claims. By making up such stories you're insulting your first imam who watched the disgrace and murder of his wife and on top of that the daughter of the Prophet s.a.w, but he didn't save her. Instead he became the advisor of Umar during his khilafah...what a???????

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Well, Muslims don't believe in such absurd and stupid claims. By making up such stories you're insulting your first imam who watched the disgrace and murder of his wife and on top of that the daughter of the Prophet s.a.w, but he didn't save her. Instead he became the advisor of Umar during his khilafah...what a???????

Your Sunni tricks will not work, your Scholars have testified that event took place and Imam Ali (as) was near to kill Umar...

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Can you tell us what happened?

Are you saying that the Shia have mass infested sunni literature with this event and the sunni ulema did nothing to stop it? So much so that even Bukhari records that Fatima (sa) died angry with Abu Bakr, as narrated by Aisha!

Lets assume your correct, the Shia are lying, they have twisted the story...but what is the original story? Surely the Sunnis must have it in at least one of their books?

Forget the story of Umar beating Fatima (sa), lets take your stance and say its imaginary, and the Shias put it into sunni books while the sunnis were busy praying Tarawih...Did Umar at least threaten to burn the House of Fatima (sa) knowing full well she (sa) was inside?

Edited by Kazmi_202
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

BTW if the silence of Imam Ali (as) is considered a shame, then what of the silence of the Noble Messenger (saaw) when Bilal was being tortured in Mecca? With what sword did the Prophet (saaw) attack the kuffar who tortured and killed Yasir and Sumayyah, the first Shuhada in Islam?

Do you consider the silence of the Prophet (saaw) shameful and a disgrace to Islam, or does your reason guide you to understand that there were underlying issues and benefits to remain silent at that moment?

When the children of Banu Hashim were crying in hunger in Shehbe Abi Talib, boycotted for 3 years by the Quraish, and the Noble Messenger (saaw) was tying stones to his stomach so as to not feel the pangs of intense hunger, what were Umar and Abu Bakr doing?

You just tell us please if you agree historically that Umar threatened to burn the House of Fatima (sa)?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

^ we don't care what you believe.

  • Abdullah ibne Umar narrates that he heard Rasulullah say:
    "Mu'awiya shall not die on the path of Islam".
    Tarikh Tabari Volume 8 page 186
  • Jabir bin Abdullah who testified that he heard Rasulullah (s) say:
    "At the time of his death, Mu'awiya shall not be counted as member of my Muslim Ummah"
    Waq'at Sifeen page 217

He (La'nat Allah Alayhi) died a kafir :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...